Belgium

by **biaothanatoi** » Sun Jul 09, 2006 9:20 am

Regina Louf (Witness X) was able to show investigators where the body of her best friend was buried - for gods sake, how on earth could they categorise her as "unreliable" when she was able to show them where a child prostitute had been buried twenty years after her murder? And, I might add: A child prostitute that nobody was looking for, nobody cared about, nobody noticed was missing. The only person that kept her memory alive was Louf. These kids just disappear and the only people that mourn for them are other children.

by **blanc** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:55 am

Louf's testimony was rubbished by the concerted efforts of the media, following Michele Hirsch's intervention. It was, for example, wrongly claimed that Regina Louf had failed to recognise a photo of the victim Christine Van Hees. Louf sued, the journalists were shown to be wrong, but the judge held that they had acted in good faith, having been misled by a source. The source of this lie was Hirsch, the lawyer who had claimed to have evaluated and rejected roomfuls of documentary evidence in a few days. Further smears on Louf and on the testimony of the other x victims followed, the latter in an effort to debunk Louf, because in fact there were remarkable correlations in the testimonies. (example, the naming of the Lippens bros, not just naming, but describing their penchant for particular kinds of violence, and the places where it occurred and the other participants.) The fact that testimony also came from named sources, including someone who had seen perturbing things on Lippen's property in Ibiza was ignored. Dawant, in L'Enquete Manipulee referrred to similarities btwn X1 and X4's testimony by a two-liner stating that the psychiatrists of each knew each other, and therefore that there was obvious contamination. This insinuation of professional misconduct was the sole reason given for dismissing the testimony. X2 whose testimony also correlated was a civilian police employee. Dawant claimed in 3 lines, that one of the investigators was her lover before she came forward as witness, and that he had led the interviews. Neither of these statements was true, he did not name the policeman, presumably because of fear of being sued, but the policeman Clippe, who knew her, was not her lover, both deny, and did not interview her. Claude Eerdekens, a politician, joined in the climate of vilification,of Louf, and she was represented as a witch on a tv programme. This despite psychiatric reports that she had suffered severe and traumatic sexual abuse, and VandenBogaert having admitted sexual relations with her when she was 12 years of age. The testimony of the xs, the anonymous testimony which also named the same players was buried, by a change of prosecutor and a smear campaign, directed at refocusing the minds of Belgian people on the idea that there was only one predator, no ring, no important people involved. The testimony itself tells a different story. There are some contributors here who question if their experiences in Belgium are related. In the next post I will put in a few details of the castle from testimony, and later some of the place names, and people which appear in the testimony. This testimony, amongst all the truly dreadful stuff I have read and heard, is beyond the pale. I'm not writing out what was allegedly done, I can hardly bear to read it, but want to warn anyone who might be triggered by place names etc. so that they can better decide if/when to look at it.

by **blanc** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:42 am

This from notes made of interview with x2. Eindhoven an 18th Century castle journey made from Knokke cars with German number plates brought the girls a woman receptionist at the castle took 2000 belgian franc entry fee (per person), couples obligatory themed bedrooms upstairs without doors swimming pool, sauna, sun bed, cold buffet bedrooms had mirrors and camera a bedroom with several matresses, a bedroom with obstetric tables, handcuffs and chains, a sm room this castle used 30 to 50 times in recall of this witness Castle at Chimay immense woods, woods surrounded by walls, wood 5 minutes from main square at Chimay from x3 a house surrounded by a park taken there in black merc with leather interior and also in pink American car with white roof 2 security guards, Ralf and Walter a natural stone tower with a woodendoor,probably an upper storey underground passage from tower to cellars dogs theatre smelling of dog shit another house, luxury home enclosed by wall with wrought iron gate, winding drive stables grounds with flower beds entrance hall had cream and blue tiles and red matrial/carpet? on stairs walls in marble a female servant

by **blanc** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:20 pm

there is much more where the above post came from, people and places, but don't want to post this unless i get some feedback - i.e is it a good idea or not.

by **biaothanatoi** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:39 pm

Blanc, have you ever read Andrew Boyd's 1991 book on SRA? It's really interesting because he interviews a whole set of people who have come into contact with RA groups - not just former child victims, but also people who became involved as perps in their teens and twenties, social workers in contact with prostitutes that have been used in RA, and so on. It fleshes out the RA phenomenon beyond the 2D "children disclosing/adults in therapy" nexus that the media has painted. I'm going through the last thirty years of media coverage of RA in Australia and categorising them on a continuum according to whether they completley debunk RA (eg pro-FMS stance, etc), are skeptical, are nuetral (eg case reports, police reports), are open to it being true, or present it as true. I want to challenge "moral panic" theory, because the "panic" theory can only be valid if there has been some sort of positive media coverage of the issue. What's emerging is just how one dimensional and reactive the media coverage has been. There were a few feature articles in the early 1990s on RA (interviews with survivors), followed by thousands and thousands of words about FMS, "recovered memories" etc etc. Some of it is incredibly vitriolic. What's also interesting is that this stuff is being written alongside articles reporting on immaculately kept sites of satanic worship found in the bush, complete with platforms in the surrounding trees to keep watch, or abandoned warehouses with inverted crosses, animal parts, etc. Not coincidentally, the vast majority of the articles claiming RA is a product of FMS were written by a journo (Richard Guilliat) who published a "debunker" book on RA in the mid-90s. An interesting twist on the "survivors just say this for money/attention/to promote themselves", hmmm? He clearly had a financial interest in spreading the anti-survivor message far and wide.

by **Project Willow** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:05 pm

Biao, Please let us know when you're finished and send us a link if you plan to make the material available online. Thanks.

by **havanagilla** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:39 am

it would be useful, if you think there is any chance this case will be re-opened somehow. I brought the canada thread, because we can see, on a smaller scale, how orgs can pull strings in the gov, by simple infiltration of low level officials and some NGO's etc., to get their results. Usually, after the fact, the gov is struggling to save face, and would certainly cover up its own failures and weaknesses. You can count on that "bureaucratic reflex" to cover up ANYTHING, and quite easily too. Gov'ts also have a good excuse, they say that it is more important to maintain public trust (where is proven to be un-meritted), than chaos and justice. That's always the same pretext, and its hard to refute it. the more public outrage (demostrations etc.) the more it PROVES to them that cover up is not only justified but called for. -- There is a famous legal issue (from law school 101) what is more important Truth or stability ? most jurisprudental writings are the apologists for "stability" at any cost. --

by **blanc** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:13 am

Given the position of the perpetrators I think that there is no chance whatsoever of the case being opened again, at least not with any hope of bringing to justice the powerful perpetrators. My thoughts about this are that it is a key case because of being literally pivotal - an axis for so many other events in other countries, and a nice example of how much it is ok to sweep under the carpet if letting it loose would affect the status quo. If persons from other countries have recalled or later recall connections with belgium, it reinforces our understanding of it as an international phenomenum which powers corruption in other spheres. biao - I salute your project. Its good to determine the source(s) of the 'moral panic' meme, a fabrication by vested interests rather than a reality.

by **havanagilla** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 11:18 am

the question remains for me whether (ooops) this is CIA "out of country" site, or it was a grassroot development starting with the locals. That could have some impact on the results, i don't know which has better prospects to be exposed <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/ohwell.gif ALT=":\"> Cause if we can only trace it back to the mid seventies, or even post 50's, it might well be one of the exported american projects, if it goes back earlier, it could be something else (as early as what ?). I am just looking at it from my pov, the setting was the usual suspects (which later we all met in broad daylight in iraq -"the scam", for instance, namely, USA, Israel, Italy and the UK. I am starting to think that sometimes even wars are decided in a party where kids are sadistically raped and murdered, over some martinis. why not ? this is how most other "democractic" decisions are made these days.). I am not saying lets look at belgium as a victim (something like looking at israel as a back yard for american violations of HR), but it certainly was a meeting of minds between the local rot and the new and improved tech and interests from the intel/US community. Maybe...don't know for sure. And whenever this issue comes up on RI, there are no conclusions as to who started what, and we end up with tracing WW2 to wall-street, which I think is far fetched, so... --- I repeat it because of the NATO connections to the region and such like obvious characteristics that lead to some suspicions in that direction. Usually, when my people are involved its on behalf of the masters, but then, not always of course.

by **blanc** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:59 pm

presumably those who owe their position to accident of birth and are involved in ra, have a pre-disposition, which they either set about satisfying, or which was exploited by interested parties. I'm not sure how easy it would be to forensically dissect the provenence of these events, wouldn't the existence of a potentially usefully placed pervert create a feeding frenzy amongst the secret services and ptb. I mean, which is the tail and which is the dog and which bit does the wagging? I used to think that the cia started things off with mkultra, and that it filtered through to organised crime by virtue of their having asked the mafia to provide them with prostitutes as victims in the first instance, but that's probably overly simplistic. now, it seems to be a symbiotic intertwining of all organisations looking t o exert power in a secret way.

by **havanagilla** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 3:07 pm

Anyway, yes, it is interwoven, except we can probably "expect some more" from out gov'ts, or so we were told they are supposed to protect us from the criminals...maybe I am naive. Pres of Israel getting deeper into the shit. First he denies everything, now perhaps he has an extramarital baby from his adminstrative assistant ? sex in high places... ---- Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=havanagilla>havanagilla</A> at: 7/11/06 2:12 pm

by **LilyPatToo** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 5:07 pm

blanc said, <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I used to think that the cia started things off with mkultra, and that it filtered through to organised crime by virtue of their having asked the mafia to provide them with prostitutes as victims in the first instance, but that's probably overly simplistic.<hr></blockquote> Actually, Sue Ford had quite a bit to say about the Mafia's involvement in the New World Order's genesis--I've lent out my only copy of her book, so this will be from memory, but she says she heard that the group she calls "the Council" brought in the Mob early on, as a covert source of funding. This would have been during Joseph Kennedy's heyday or even earlier. When they'd managed to move their agents into key international banking positions and could finance their operations more directly, the Mafia was marginalized. She said that today they're no longer privy to inside information and serve more as enforcers in cases where even the intelligence agencies don't want to soil their hands (which in itself boggles my brain, given the things they've done). And they're used for disciplining MC slaves, too, something I'd experienced too but hadn't heard of from anyone else until Sue Ford wrote about it. LilyPat

by **biaothanatoi** » Tue Jul 11, 2006 8:46 pm

We really, really have to be careful about tracing the provenance of RA in a linear way. Yes, it's clear that the scientific advancements of the last hundred years have been used by perpetrators to refine their methods of torture/terrorisation, but that doesn't mean that everything goes back to MK. There are some things that are universal to human beings - common ways of thinking, common logic, similar aspects of culture and patterns of behavior. The "power" that you get in breaking social taboos is one of these. Some Hindu mystics pursue this as a path to enlightenment eg living inside a dead horse carcass, etc. There is a dark side to this, as we learnt earlier this year with reports of ritual abuse and child sacrifice amongs the tantrics in India. When I was taking undergrad anthropology, I read an account from an anthropologist who was having trouble getting recognition amongst the tribe he was studying. The way he overcame this was to show them a photo in which he was hugging his mother-in-law. The strictest taboo of that tribe was to never touch your wifes mother - otherwise, her relatives would kill you. The fact that the anthro had hugged his mother-in-law, and nobody had killed him, suggested to the tribe that he was a man to be feared - a man who could do as he wished, break any rule without consequence. The logic of RA, the black tantrics, even the benign example above, is very similar. In some ways, people are attracted to RA because it is the worst possible thing that they could do. They transgress every law and get away with it - therefore, they can believe they are magickal, invisible, powerful, etc. In reality, the only reason that they get away with it is because children have no real legal protection in our society. (Think about it - RA has shown us that a child's testimony isn't worth anything in court, therefore, if the only people that witness a crime against a child is the victim and the perpetrator/s, then the perp/s get away with it). It's likely that there has been some kind of RA technique "seeding" in the last fifty years throughout the West (as evidenced by common DID structures, common alter names). But we see RA and DID in Australian Aboriginal communitites, in Native American communities, in isolated German and Russian villages, in Ghana and West Africa, and so on. There is a common pattern here that is much bigger then a black op program - let's look at it in context. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=biaothanatoi@rigorousintuition>biaothanatoi</A> at: 7/11/06 6:52 pm

by **Dreams End** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 12:57 am

sorry for a slight tangent. I realize Sarah is a very common name, but I heard it was a common alter name. My wife has a sarah inside (who now likes to be called "India" because of a song lyric "thank you India". She wanted to be thanked for holding some painful info (about the babysitter) and for bravely releasing it. I also asked because my stepdaughter got a cellphone call on time, and they asked for Sarah. She said "you have the wrong number." and they said (in what she described at the time as a creepy voice..."are you sure...?" We were watching tv and she was very reserved after that, but when I mentioned it sometime later she didn't remember having said it was a creepy voice...she was definitely spooked at the time though. So, any info on Sarah alters? any typical role they play?

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Jul 12, 2006 1:26 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>They transgress every law and get away with it - therefore, they can believe they are magickal, invisible, powerful, etc. In reality, the only reason that they get away with it is because children have no real legal protection in our society.<hr></blockquote> There is a feedback loop there. Powerful people live under a privelege. They corrupt the law to serve them more often than not. In effect if they believ it and its actually happening who is to say they are not right... That doesn't excuse the failure's of the legal system and the people involved specifically. And thinking that there is that power probably helps to the continuation of the abuse. By removing it from the context of the legal system. It is an interesting strain of human behaviour tho, in that it has to do with power and inflicting stuff on other people. At some point the connection between people and the common empathy between humans must have been damaged to enable it to continue. How could you do that to someone... Either that or some people are just plain nasty. I haven't actually read the stuff I am referring to now -> but i have been told that the postmodern philosopher, Focault, felt that rape was not really a crime. Just a manifestation of the power relationship between people. He felt that rape victims must want to be raped on some fundamental level, cos otherwise they would fight to the death to resist. He was obviously an intellectual academic (ie someone with no experience of reality, or else how could he make such a comment.) Well thats what i hope... But that does raise some pretty interesting questions about everything. For example the obvious question about power in society, and the fact that the trangression is not a transgression, just another manifestation of power in a sick society where power is expected to be used in such ugly ways. Ie what if it doesn't feel like you are breaking any rules or laws, just exerting your rightful power over others. The way it was done by those in power last generation and the one before ad nauseum in finitum. The power doesn't exist in the breaking of the taboo. Its in the fact that the ordinary taboos don't apply, and so either do the rules. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>The "power" that you get in breaking social taboos is one of these.<hr></blockquote> I am of the opinion that child abuse (tho not MC directed stuff) spontaneously forms ritual cos its an invokation of the power of acting without consideration of the consequences especially for others. This does not necessarily have to come from a place of breaking a taboo, it could come from the place where they laugh at the taboos they have inflicted on to the herd.

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castles - could TRIGGER

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