America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:29 am

Alternative perspectives definitely needs to be presented here. This is important.


Intelligence Report, Winter 2011, Issue Number: 144

League of the South Rhetoric Turns to Arms

By Janet Smith and Ryan Lenz


Since its bookish beginnings as a group dominated by academics in 1994, the League of the South (LOS) has been obsessively driven to glorify Southern history and culture, pining for the independence denied the region by federal troops 150 years ago.

But over the years, the neo-Confederate group’s platform grew to be distinctly racist, with the goal of building a theocratic South defined by “the cultural dominance of the Anglo-Celtic people and their institutions,” as its president, former Stillman College professor Michael Hill, once put it. At the same time, its early rhetoric angrily demanding that the rest of the country treat the South with more respect was replaced with explicit calls for a second secession from the “ungodly” North.

Now, the LOS agenda appears to be evolving even further, this time away from the ivory tower. Beginning in 2007, when its national conference was titled “Southern Secession: Antidote to Empire and Tyranny,” each year has seen further and more militant dedication to that idea. The theme in 2008 was “Surviving the Empire’s Collapse” — an idea of survivalist resistance that similarly has since been echoed each year with increasing enthusiasm.

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John Weaver
Photo Credit: AP Photo/Elliot Minor


During its national conference this July in Abbeville, S.C. — the self-proclaimed “birthplace and deathbed of the Confederacy” — the LOS continued in the same vein of preparing for the day the federal government collapses and the South rises again. “The mantra [that] violence, or the serious threat thereof, never settles anything is patently false,” Hill said in a prepared speech that was later posted on the group’s website. “History shows that it indeed does settle many things. Please don’t forget this — your enemy hasn’t.”

For two days at the conference, more than 100 members sat through workshops delivered with end-of-days flair and focused on surviving the unrest to come. Pastor John Weaver, former “chaplain-in-chief” for the Southern heritage group Sons of Confederate Veterans and a member of the white supremacist Council of Conservative Citizens, gave lessons on basic gun safety. Franklin Sanders, considered the LOS’s No. 2 man, encouraged members to invest in silver and gold — the idea being that when the government collapses, so will the Federal Reserve. There were also training sessions on how to stock and maintain a home pantry, lessons on how to hunt and track, and calls for members to buy shortwave radios and begin using them instead of telephones.

Hill said much to suggest that a physical fight is brewing. “He who is willing to die for a cause will defeat one who isn’t,” he told his listeners. “Always act as if you are fighting in the last ditch for the survival of all you hold dear.” Later, Hill added, “We are already at war — we just don’t know it.”

For a group that initially defined itself as a kind of political club for culturally concerned intellectual Southerners, this apparent embrace of survivalist paramilitarism comes as something of a surprise. But in many ways, the conference marked the culmination of a long and steady march toward the extremist fringe.

For years, in fact, there have been hints of hard-line militancy from some key LOS members. At a meeting of the LOS’s Georgia chapter in March, Hill had compiled a list of supplies to keep for the day the “Evil Empire” toppled. He encouraged members to stock up on assault weapons (AK-47s are preferred because they require less maintenance) and plenty of ammunition. He said a family would need 400 rounds of ammunition to last in the woods for two days, and he even recommended the style of bullets — deadly hollow points. He also recommended families equip themselves with tools to derail trains and a deer-hunting rifle with a scope.

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League of the South founder Michael Hill only suggested a possible second secession if Yankees didn't treat the South better. But soon he was railing against racial intermarriage and calling for a Southern theocracy. Now, Hill is suggesting that violence may be necessary.

“American deer hunters are the largest army in the world,” Hill said.

As clear as this evolution seems, the LOS has fervently denied anything is afoot beyond a reasoned response to troubled times. After the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Hatewatch blog drew attention to the group’s increasing militancy, Mike Tuggle, editor of the LOS blog Rebellion, mocked the suggestion that the game had changed. “Lord help us, they’re canning vegetables!” he wrote of his compatriots.

But there is other evidence of the league’s mounting radicalism. Consider the case of Michael Tubbs of the Florida division of LOS and the increasingly prominent role the former Green Beret demolitions expert has played in the group in recent years.

In the 1990s, Tubbs pleaded guilty to theft and conspiracy for stealing weapons from the military — some of them at gunpoint from fellow soldiers. The case went back to 1987, when then-Sgt. 1st Class Michael R. Tubbs and another Army Green Beret, toting automatic weapons fitted with silencers and dressed completely in black, robbed two fellow soldiers of their M-16 rifles during a routine exercise at Fort Bragg. “This is for the KKK!” they shouted as they fled.

Years later, after an informant talked, authorities broke the case and found several caches containing machine guns, 25 pounds of TNT, land mines, an anti-aircraft gun, grenades, 45 pounds of C-4 plastic explosive and more. Prosecutors said Tubbs had drawn up a list of targets including newspapers, television stations and businesses owned by Jews and black people, though none was ever attacked.

But none of that caused the LOS to back away from Tubbs. In fact, Hill and others in the LOS today seem to be giving Tubbs more airtime than ever.

At the Abbeville conference this summer, Tubbs gave a major speech on why reforming the federal system is impossible. Using rhetoric reminiscent of that of the antigovernment “Patriot” movement, Tubbs told the national gathering to withhold loyalty from the federal government and instead pledge allegiance to the Southern National Congress, a neo-Confederate group focused exclusively on advancing a new secession through political means. Tubbs’ presentation also included a seven-part strategy to “delegitimate” the federal government through the establishment of “organic local communities.”

“The beast is dying and dragging us with it,” Tubbs said.

For Hill — a former history professor, with expertise in Celtic traditions, at Alabama’s historically black Stillman College — the coming fight is no different than Scottish freedom fighter William Wallace’s insurgent war against the British. In fact, he first developed his ideas about Southern heritage in the 1970s, expanding on the theory that the South was different from the materialistic, ungodly North because its white population was “Anglo-Celtic” and fully embraced “Orthodox” Christianity — a belief that led to the creation of the LOS. Now, Hill seems to believe that the only way to defend the South against the “Jacobin” egalitarianism and secular humanism of the North is through force of arms.

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League of the South members have pushed for more public displays of the Confederate battle flag for years.

“What would it take to get you to fight? … What would it take to turn you into a William Wallace?” Hill asked in opening his Abbeville speech. “We are not made to live in isolation. Rather, we here in the South are a people. … The South is where we make our stand.”

The LOS also continues to associate itself with other hard-line extremists, including Larry Darby, an Alabama man who was once a leading atheist activist but more recently has spent time associating on friendly terms with neo-Nazis and denying the Holocaust. Even Pastor John Weaver, who has defended American slavery, continues to be a mainstay.

At the same time, there are worries that LOS’ influence on the radical right may be spreading. Matthew Heimbach, a member of the league’s Maryland division and an attendee of the Abbeville conference, claimed on a YouTube video posted this July that his league chapter would be working with Youth for Western Civilization (YWC), a campus group that already had ties to a number of other white nationalist organizations. Heimbach described YWC as having “similar principles to us and similar goals.”

Also at this year’s conference in South Carolina, Weaver held a class with a focus on armed battle. He showed a gathering of about 60 people how to draw a pistol, how to hold it and not accidentally shoot the weapon, even how to draw down on an enemy. “Divine providence always arranges the time for fighting. You must remember, God is the god of war,” he reassured them. “Do you realize when God is involved, the outcome is guaranteed? When God is involved, victory is assured. When God is involved, there is no failure.”



Related Profile:
League of the South
Neo-Confederate



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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Sounder » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:15 am

Alaya wrote...
Someone owes someone else an apology here.

Maybe someone owes the rest of the forum members an apology for behaving like a knee-jerk Nazi. Whoever said 'thought police' is correct.
People here are smugly relieved that they escaped the narrow-mindedness of DU?

Ugly to see the same behavior right here at our beloved RI.


That is not going to happen Alaya. Importance creates an imperative that logic must never challenge.

It is funny and ironic however that a person who is intent on demonizing the thoughts of another poster for being archaic and regressive, yet without addressing the posters actual words, could be so stubborn about the righteousness of their own constipation.

I'm afraid that the option for apology does not compute in the heads of some.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Hammer of Los » Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:49 am

American Dream wrote:
The US was created based on two original crimes that must be confessed and made right. Reparations are owed to Native Americans because their land was stolen and they were uprooted and slaughtered. Reparations are owed to African Americans because they were kidnapped, enslaved and abused. The US has profited widely from these injustices and must make amends.

--Ten Steps for Radical Revolution in USA, by Bill Quigley



The British also have much blood on their hands from wars of conquest, colonialism, empire and slavery.

In likewise fashion, they have profited and ought to make amends.

I honour the aboriginal peoples of the world and their deep wisdom. They are my brothers. I hum and chant in the name of those who fell to the firewater and gunpowder of the white race.



:lovehearts: :angelwings: :lovehearts:

...
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:04 am

There has been a lot of distorted interpretation of what I really think and what I am saying here. I should clarify my own position:

I do not think publius is this or that, exactly. How could I know? He hasn't given us much to work with really- just a lot of historical revision of U.S. Civil War motifs and a little bit of pontification about the implications for our current and future society. Secession and sovereignty for the southern states in the USA seems to be central to the argument that he is making. Above and beyond those kinds of things, no one knows- because he hasn't said!

Now it would be dishonest to claim I don't smell a rat- I did since page one and I still do. In fact, now that I know much, much more about the neo-Confederate Movement than I did a week ago, the smell is even stronger than ever. I don't think you need to be a historian or philosopher or politicl scientist to get this. It's pretty obvious, really.

So, my intention was never to suggest that publius is in the Klan or any group like that- not even to suggest where he might agree or disagree with such groups on a theoretical, tactical or strategic basis. I was trying to see however if he would ever directly and clearly comment on issues like the morality of slavery or odiousness of racist violence. And of course he never did.

So big up to southerners- I am one.

Big up to anti-Racism.

Big up in particular to the many Ron Paul fans who absolutely do repudiate Racism.

Big up to people who try to think critically about persuasive arguments being presented to them in a selective context.

Big up to all who really want Truth and want Justice.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby publius » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:11 pm

Morality? The Union approved slavery until it went to war. Lincoln would have supported perpetual slavery to keep the South without war. I doubt he would have gone so far as to buy the Southern slave owners out however, which would still have been better than war. War is the issue, not slavery! Is might the only arbiter of right?

From Tacitus-a writer read by Civil War Generals-

Idque apud imperitos humanitas vocabatur, cum pars servitutis esset.
Translation: Because they didn't know better, they called it 'civilization,' when it was part of their slavery.

Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium; atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
Translation: To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire; and where they make a desert, they call it peace.
======
Lastly, it seems to me that an idea connecting my idea of two nations without war 150 years ago is being confused with the OUTCOME of that war 150 years ago. And yet that outcome was not happy for either side. Nor did the enslaved portion of the population benefti substantially from that conflict for well over 100 years. Therefore it seems to me that if the tension of the civil War exist, might thetension lessbe onething and more of something else. More say of unresolved problems in the Federal Empire. Might it not be that the flawed imperfect and enslaving Federal state failed under Lincoln and the Empire born then won instead?
Last edited by publius on Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:15 pm

publius wrote:Morality? The Union approved slavery until it went to war.


Sure- but how do you view the morality of slavery, and of white supremacy in general?
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Laodicean » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:20 pm

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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby brainpanhandler » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:24 pm

AD wrote:because he hasn't said!


To be fair, they have said what they are not.

It's pretty obvious, really.


I agree it certainly seems obvious. So obvious that at a minimum I would think Publius would expect to have to engage someone who engaged them on the matter.

I could surmise that the apparent lack of engagement is a tactic. I certainly don't believe it is a moral stance.

I was trying to see however if he would ever directly and clearly comment on issues like the morality of slavery or odiousness of racist violence.


A perfectly reasonable thing to do.

And of course he never did.


And you would think they would understand that silence is beginning to speak louder than anything else they are saying.

FWIW carry on AD. I see nothing wrong with your line of questioning.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby publius » Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:26 pm

No more than I support war.
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
― Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby publius » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:52 pm

Federal Civil War State is using force to "Administer" the warfare against the People of the North and South. There is technical proficency acquired by the War State in the Civil War and power lust encouraged by Reconstruction and martial law. The Apotheosis of Abraham Lincoln is also warfare.

Should we then look at changes of government structure, aim and ambition? The War State now has the former South as it's dominion. Ambition is global reach.
“To think is easy. To act is hard. But the hardest thing in the world is to act in accordance with your thinking.”
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby Sounder » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:15 pm

bph wrote…
…..someone who engaged them on the matter.


Do you mean to say ‘him’ or was the use of them a (weasel) way to include me in the accusation. Anyway, if so, I do declare and swear that that I find both slavery and racism to be odious offenses against the human spirit. But those are just words and not likely to sway anyone that has already convinced themselves that their target is beyond redemption and not worthy of engagement.

And anyway, aren’t I supposed to be on your ignore list?
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:20 pm

(American Dream currently has Sounder set on "Ignore"- so don't expect any direct back-and-forth, which hopefully will be good for this thread).
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby brainpanhandler » Thu Jan 26, 2012 2:52 pm

Them and they were just gender neutral pronouns.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:27 pm

brainpanhandler wrote:Them and they were just gender neutral pronouns.
Thanks for the clarification and the (gentle) reminder about gender language, brainpanhandler, as well as for your contributions in general.


I want to say also that this thread came with perfect timing for me. I was at an event very recently at which an anarchist theorist spoke. She alluded to the problematic inherent in an emphasis on autonomy and anti-Statism as it concerns the fact that there are some pretty scary people out there who also want self-rule.

These people, who operate from values antithetical to what most of us would ever want to uphold: white supremacy, Christian dominance, homophobia, oppression of women (especially where reproductive freedoms are concerned), transphobia, and other such reactionary values.

The State currently does a great deal to protect all of us from the depredations of such people (though it also uses them sometimes as plausibly deniable agents).

If there is no State, what then will happen?


Slightly edited for clarity
Last edited by American Dream on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: America Lost the Civil War With The Lincoln War State

Postby American Dream » Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:46 pm

Just found this by Chris Crass, regarding the Catalyst Project’s anti-racist organizing strategy:

As organizers, our focus isn’t to make our movements an island outside of society, but a foundation for the transformation of society. This doesn’t mean accepting the hierarchies of oppression and privilege inside our movement, but it means understanding our work against these systems in our movement as deeply connected to transforming the systems of power in society.

Anti-racist organizing

Coming from this perspective, we offer an overview of Catalyst’s anti-racist organizing strategy.

Over years of working in white communities, Catalyst uses the shorthand “white anti-racist organizing” to describe our work. What do we mean by that? When we say “white,” we mean the historical and institutional development of white supremacy, capitalism, and patriarchy in the creation of the United States, conditions which result in my now being a white person. The U.S. was created by the wealthy class to maximize private power and wealth through exploitation of the vast majority’s labor and oppression of the vast majority’s humanity. Wealth and power have been and are taken from the majority through slavery, genocide, colonization, indentured servitude, low paying/high profit making jobs, and unpaid reproductive labor in the home and community.

But wherever there is exploitation and oppression, there is resistance. Alongside the history of oppression, there is a vast history of resistance and liberation struggle. Slave masters in the South faced widespread individual and collective resistance from enslaved Africans, and at times joint struggle between enslaved Africans and Native American nations as well as with indentured Europeans. Such uprisings of slaves and servants haunted the master class, which in response outlawed marriages between Africans and Europeans and outlawed gatherings of Africans and Europeans. They passed these laws because people were forming family and building community – not in large numbers, but in significant enough numbers to strike fear into the ruling class. They understood that bonds of love, family, and community across groups of exploited and oppressed peoples – the vast majority of the population – could be a foundation for joint resistance against the minority at the top accumulating and maintaining wealth and power.


Image
Melanie Cervantes -
http://dignidadrebelde.com


Ruling classes, through hundreds of years of experience, developed sophisticated methods of dividing and controlling people to take land, enslave people, and create a politically docile and economically exploited class of citizens. In the United States, this method was white supremacy. In order to prevent a foundation of joint resistance from forming, a racial order needed to be constructed to divide people. While the vast majority of people were exploited to create profit, citizenship with limited (but significant) political rights became a category in society for “white” people. While these political rights were originally for land-owning European males, this expanded to include all Europeans with European women primarily having access to these rights through relationships to men.

The expansion of these rights came primarily as a result of the ruling class responding to resistance from oppressed peoples. For example, with massive resistance from formerly enslaved Black people in the late 1800s, alongside a growing radical working-class movement with millions of newly immigrated, not-yet-white Europeans participating, the ruling class responded with a classic divide and control tactic: Americanization (white citizenship) process for Italians, Jews, Irish, Germans, Poles, Russians, and other European ethnic groups, and Jim Crow apartheid for Blacks.


http://www.leftturn.org/Collective-Liberation-Catalyst
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