List of 75 Right-Wing Terror Plots

[AlicetheKurious]

No.

[compared2what?]

No, not directly. But he's a diehard defender of Israel's right to take those actions, which he sees as fully justified and necessary, in much the same way that torturing Algerians was back when he was personally engaged in doing exactly that...

Yes, and if so, then that's his opinion, one among many of his shitty opinions, which he, like everyone else, should have the right to express, because as I mentioned before, free speech is a human right.

I couldn't agree more. I guess I thought you were talking about something else.

The leader of the French far-right party National Front (FN) has been named by four Algerian liberation war veterans as one of the persons involved in torturing them. While Le Pen admitted to torturing forty years ago, he now denies the charges and is to sue the daily newspaper 'Le Monde', which quoted the veterans.

'Le Monde' quotes one of four Algerians, Mohamed Abdellaoui, as saying that Le Pen in 1957 personally administered electric shocks. He beat me we an electric stick on the shoulders and on the knees," Abdellaoui remembered the treatment. A second Algerian veteran recalled Le Pen had "sit down on my body and forced me to drink water from the water closet."

[...]

Shortly after the war, the issue was less taboo, as the hatred was still strong. Also Le Pen at this time admitted he had participated in the torture of Algerian liberation fighters. "I tortured because it had to be done," he told the 'Combat' newspaper in 1962. Le Pen served in the Franco-Algerian war as a lieutenant in the paratrooper regiment, also in charge of intelligence.

...if that counts for anything, according to your moral calculus.

According to my moral calculus, torturing people is NOT a human right, but a severe VIOLATION of human rights, for which he should have been prosecuted and if found guilty, penalized harshly.

I agree with you on that one, too.

But unfortunately, France granted amnesty to its war criminals in Algeria in 1962 (the year the war ended), then granted it again in 1968, and then yet again in 1982.

They committed a lot of atrocities during that war. So they apparently decided to err on the side of caution.

But when he was finally prosecuted and convicted, it wasn't for torturing people, was it?

As far as I know, he's only ever been prosecuted and convicted for stuff like inciting racial hatred against Arabs and denying crimes against humanity. Personally, I don't think it should be illegal to....

Oh, sorry. For a second there, I thought you were addressing me. But I see that it was actually just another combative rhetorical question that wasn't particularly related to anything I said in my post.

My mistake.

Yes. He has said exactly that about the Palestinians.

See above: free speech is a human right. If it can be denied to certain people whose opinion you don't like, then it's not a right, but a privilege that is granted at the discretion of those who wield the power. Today it's people whose opinions you don't like, tomorrow it'll be you.

I agree, and have absolutely no idea why you're lecturing me about it, quite frankly. I was just answering your question.

Nothing about Jean-Marie Le Pen gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling, and I don't regard his conviction as good news.

But I do regard him as a bad, bad man.

So?

Good question. Let me think....Well. I suppose that I found it painful to see that -- due to what appeared to be a mistaken assumption about the larger political implications of his tolerant views on the Nazi occupation -- you were suggesting otherwise.

So I thought I'd mention it.
_________________

ON EDIT: Sorry about that. Your first post, to which I was replying, didn't actually say anything about it being a free-speech issue.

[psynapz]

I believe the comments in question were posted here. It took about 2 minutes to find them.

So what is your current thinking about forming common cause with nazis, skinheads and others of that ilk?

Any different than it was before?

[American Dream]

I believe the comments in question were posted here. It took about 2 minutes to find them.

So what is your current thinking about forming common cause with nazis, skinheads and others of that ilk?

Any different than it was before?

psynapz, given the way that this thread has unfolded, do you really think that your portraying Alice in such an extremely victimized role is really fair and accurate?

If so, why?

[Sounder]

So many questions

so little time

[Peregrine]

In a similar way, these vile racist, sexist, homophobic and otherwise reactionary militia and white supremacist groups should not be welcome in conspiracy culture, no matter how much they style themselves as outlaws...

Who said anything about "welcoming" them? Straw man.

I will never forget when you said you thought that it was perfectly fine to bring white supremacists into Palestinian solidarity groups.

The first thing that came to mind was:

"With friends like these, who needs enemies???"...

AD, sorry, but you tend to twist words sometimes, whether intentional or not, just to prove a point. Not attacking you, but I remember that conversation from a while back & looked through it. Knowhere did I see Alice thinking it perfectly fine that white supremacy groups colaborate with Palestinia solidarity groups. I'm pretty sure white supremacy groups wouldn't tolerate the non-white, anyhow. What she did point out, was there seems to be a common thread when it comes to forming particular groups. Her words:

All these 'movements' share a deep, often justified, sense of grievance and an urgent need to do something now before it's too late. Beyond those commonalities, however, which in themselves are neither illegitimate nor wrong, I personally distinguish between movements I am prepared to support and those I am not, using these criteria...

The only thing I could find that you seem to be misinterpreting was here:

Nothing could be better, from a systemic point of view, than to encourage each side to focus their anger on the other rather than on the system that oppresses both. It's no accident that racial hatred is being deliberately stoked by billionaire Rupert Murdoch's FOX network, or that racist incitement saturates so much of what passes for "entertainment" produced by Hollywood's elite "dream factory". Yet even a cursory understanding of human history, or the way the system is set up, would show that even if African-Americans were to entirely wipe out the white people who form the minions of the white supremacist movement or if the white supremacists were to wipe out all the Black people, it's hard to see how that would make any difference at all to the very real oppression that both groups face, of which the "color divide" is but one manifestation: a symptom, but not the disease itself.

Anyway, my point -- and I do have one -- is that we need to avoid the temptation to simplistically mirror these or similar supremacists' demonization of the Other, otherwise we help to perpetuate the very system that produces them. Whether we're talking about Jewish supremacists in Palestine or white supremacists in the U.S., mindlessly reacting in a way that reinforces their paranoia and self-pity is counterproductive. It is far more effective to distinguish between legitimate rights and aspirations while explicitly rejecting, exposing and counteracting their racist beliefs and their own violence or oppression of others.
It's also crucial to find a way to reach these people with accurate, relevant and verifiable information about the way the predatory system really works, including its formidable propaganda apparatus that is so effective at making people consistently act against their own self-interest. Although typically, such movements attract a number of seriously disturbed individuals, violent criminals and agents saboteurs, the majority are ordinary people who are bewildered and seeking the relief of trusting false prophets who claim to have all the answers. I'm not naive about how difficult it is to change racist attitudes, but I do believe that we should not be reinforcing the wall between "us" and "them", but instead hacking a doorway through that wall and providing a healthier, more informed and more intelligent alternative that strengthens OUR struggle for positive change, rather than THEIR struggle to keep society on its downward trajectory.

In short, I didn't see her "welcoming white supremast groups with open arms" but focusing on knocking down the source of the true threat that perpetuates & enflames hatred of others. It's idealistic & I would love to see groups put away their hate of others & work towards something productive, but unfortunately, you're not going to get rid of ignorance & nowhere did I see her aligning with white supremasts or other hate-inspired groups, rather she pointed out their flaws.
I dunno why I spent so much time picking through that one. I hope it made sense...

[American Dream]

In short, I didn't see her "welcoming white supremast groups with open arms" but focusing on knocking down the source of the true threat that perpetuates & enflames hatred of others. It's idealistic & I would love to see groups put away their hate of others & work towards something productive, but unfortunately, you're not going to get rid of ignorance & nowhere did I see her aligning with white supremasts or other hate-inspired groups, rather she pointed out their flaws.

I have long been aware of Nazi-type groups specifically targeting Palestinian solidarity groups as a way of organizing for their agenda (besides the other movements targeted by these hateful fascists: anarchist, anti-globalization, environmental etc.)

I have also long been aware of the "new anti-Semitism" argument as a vehicle to stop Palestinian solidarity work in its tracks. Unfortunately- it works- as I have seen many, many times before.

Therefore, I would never, ever knowingly welcome nazis, fascist skinheads, "christian patriots", reactionary militia members, or anyone like that into any palestinian solidarity work with which I was involved.

This seems like basic common sense...

[AlicetheKurious]

I have also long been aware of the "new anti-Semitism" argument as a vehicle to stop Palestinian solidarity work in its tracks. Unfortunately- it works- as I have seen many, many times before.

I bet you have.

It doesn't work anymore, AD; people got wise. I doubt you'd find any Palestinian solidarity group willing to have you, or at least have you for long, once they figure out your m.o., which won't take long at all, judging by your performance here.

[American Dream]

I have also long been aware of the "new anti-Semitism" argument as a vehicle to stop Palestinian solidarity work in its tracks. Unfortunately- it works- as I have seen many, many times before.

I bet you have.

It doesn't work anymore, AD; people got wise. I doubt you'd find any Palestinian solidarity group willing to have you, or at least have you for long, once they figure out your m.o., which won't take long at all, judging by your performance here.

The various palestinian solidarity campaigns that I work with now or have worked with recently are glad to have me to this day- and I am good with the rank and file and even a few famous leaders.

I can't think of any Palestine solidarity groups that I respect that would even consider bringing in people who are openly identifed as nazis, racist skinheads, white supremacists, "christian patriots" etc.- can you, Alice?

[AlicetheKurious]

This is turning into this thread.

Go for it. You need it more than I do, Che.

[American Dream]

I think that we have reached a natural conclusion here - I think you have represented your politics and I have represented mine.

If you ever do think of any good Palestine solidarity groups that welcome in people who are openly affiliated with white supremacist causes, do let us know.

[American Dream]

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/ ... 27577.html

Christian militia acquitted of sedition in US

Judge in Michigan throws out case after ruling that talking about hatred of government does not amount to sedition.

Last Modified: 28 Mar 2012


A defence lawyer said anti-government rants amounted to a 'God-given right to blow off steam' [Hutaree.com]

A federal judge in Michigan has thrown out most of a high profile case against a US Christian-based militia group, saying prosecutors failed to prove that members of the Hutaree were doing more than talking about their hatred of the government.

The seven defendants were accused of plotting to kill law enforcement officers as a way to incite a wider rebellion against the US government, but defence lawyers argued that their conversations were protected by free speech rights and were never put into action.

Judge Victoria Roberts granted the defence's motion to acquit the members on Tuesday, saying that while she was "aware that protected speech and mere words can be sufficient to show a conspiracy ... they do not rise to that level" in the case at hand.

The move is a rare occurence - judges do not normally acquit defendants during jury trials - and a major setback for the government, which has made it a priority to investigate such types of organisations.

David Stone, the leader of the militia, was secretly recorded by an agent from the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) saying he was willing to kill police officers and their families, and that he considered them part of an authoritarian global "brotherhood" that included federal law enforcers and UN troops.

The Hutaree conducted armed training exercises in the Michigan woods, but defence lawyers argued that the group was more of a "social club" whose leader was "exercising his God-given right to blow off steam".

In her ruling, Roberts dismissed the most serious charges, conspiring to commit sedition and conspiring to use weapons of mass destruction, which could have carried life prison sentences.

Other weapons charges tied to the conspiracies were also dismissed, but Stone and his son Joshua will still face comparatively minor gun charges.

Both have been imprisoned since their arrest in 2010, when Attorney General Eric Holder called the Hutaree a "dangerous group".

The jury trial, which began on February 13, resumes on Thursday.

'Vile and often hateful'

"The judge had a lot of guts,'" defence lawyer William Swor said. "It would have been very easy to say, 'The heck with it,' and hand it off to the jury. But the fact is she looked at the evidence, and she looked at it very carefully."

A judge dismissing charges in a jury trial happens "only a few times a year throughout the country," said Paul Henning, law professor at Wayne State University in Detroit, and a former federal prosecutor, who has been watching the case closely.

Legal precedent makes it very unlikely that the government, which did not comment on Roberts' ruling, will appeal the decision. Previous judicial acquittals have been treated the same way as jury acquittals, which cannot be appealed.

Roberts described Stone's views as "vile and often hateful" but said that "his diatribes evince nothing more than his own hatred for - perhaps even desire to fight or kill - law enforcement; this is not the same as seditious conspiracy".

In addition to Stone and his son Joshua, those acquitted included Stone's wife Tina Mae Stone, another son David Brian Stone Junior, Michael Meeks, Thomas Piatek and Kristopher Sickles.

"It's a good day for the first and second amendments," said Michael Rataj, who represented Tina Stone, referring to amendments to the constitution granting free speech and the right to keep and bear arms.

Meeks and Piatek had also been behind bars, but were released on Tuesday after the ruling, defense lawyers said.

The remaining three defendants had already been released.

Prosecution chided

In her ruling, Judge Roberts chided the prosecution for saying at hearings in 2010 that they would prove "specific acts of violence" by the group but then failing to do so.

The seven were among nine people arrested in raids in Michigan, Ohio and Indiana that began March 27, 2010.

The trial against the Hutaree was the latest in a series of prosecutions aimed at what the government sees as a growing threat of violence from homegrown anti-government groups.

In early February, the FBI warned that such groups posed an increasing threat to law enforcement.

As of late 2011, there were about 250 active militia groups in the US, according to the Anti-Defamation League.

[elfismiles]

Re: FBI WATCH MAKING CRUELTY VISIBLE
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=29177&p=454649&hilit=hutaree#p454649

To catch a terrorist: FBI hunts for the enemy within
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32973&p=423283&hilit=hutaree#p423283

Working With Obama Like “Touching A Tar Baby”
At the DHS, One Analyst For Many Right-Wing Extremists
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32720&p=418174&hilit=hutaree#p418174
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32672&p=416982&hilit=hutaree#p416982

Meet the Most Extreme of the Radical Christians
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=32453&p=410253&hilit=hutaree#p410253

Terror from the Right: A Recent (U.S.) History
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=31465&p=410223&hilit=hutaree#p410223

MORE...
search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&keywords=hutaree&start=15

[brainpanhandler]

White supremacists accused of planning for 'race war' in Florida

By James Eng, msnbc.com

Members of a white supremacist skinhead group called American Front trained with AK-47s, shotguns and explosives at a fortified compound in central Florida to prepare for what its reputed leader believed to be an “inevitable race war,” prosecutors said Tuesday.

According to court documents, members of American Front discussed acts of violence that included causing “a disturbance” at City Hall in Orlando, shooting at a house and attacking an anti-racist skinhead group.

At least 10 members of the group, which authorities described as a militia-styled, anti-Semitic domestic terrorist organization, have been arrested in Florida since the weekend, including at least three people on Tuesday.

...

link:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... orida?lite

[8bitagent]

Aw, it's 1992/1993(or 1999) again.

NOW it's feeling more like the America I know...the last decade has been a bit of a haze. Time to get back to what America does best.
Ban gay rights, stoke racial divides, stir up crazy neo Nazi plots