Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati’

by **mother** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 7:29 pm

For being unable to resist digging up this old thread and for your remarks. I hate the elite occultists with all my heart.

by **Rigorous Intuition** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:17 pm

I clicked your link to view Pat Robertson's "luciferian hand sign," but instead I read Texe Marrs railing against "This sordid, Christ-hating global Jewish Entity" (his emphasis). I think it's disingenuous to write that people have difficulty with Salvi and Springmeier because they've "darkened the door of a church a time or two." I've darkened a few in my day myself. For me, Springmeier's troubling aspects (I don't know enough about Salvi to comment) go to his associations with the far right "patriot" community, especially since the mind controllers are themselves steeped in fascism. (Not to mention Springmeier's following the pattern of hooking up with the female victims he claims to be rescuing, having left his wife for "Cisco Wheeler.") Reminds me of something I wrote a few months ago in <a href="http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2005/10/left-right-and-wrong.html">The Left, the Right, and the Wrong</a>: In the first part of my interview with ritual abuse-mind control survivor Kathleen Sullivan, she made the following observation: "Another interesting factor is that most of the more outspoken disinfo agents present together at conferences that either pander to “conspiracy theorists” and/or to the sector that is pro-Aryan and/or “Patriot.” Not all people in the Patriot movement are pro-Aryan. However, I have learned that most of the mind-control disinfo agents are, privately if not publicly, avowed racists. This would seem to be a rather odd connection, if one did not know that many Aryan organizations and cell groups use “trauma-based mind control” on their members, to ensure their submission and compliance." I find this fascinating. Sullivan says that the  occult-intelligence perpetrators of ritual abuse belong to the Aryan networks, as do those who have claimed leadership of its exposure. This is one of those things that threw me for a cognitive loop when I began discovering this material, which nearly tempted me to pretend the evidence for it didn't exist. (Another one was that many of the self-styled champions of mind control survivors become their lovers and handlers.) These characters, like Fritz Springmeier, Mark Phillips and Ted Gunderson, are either drawn from or pander to the extreme right: the militias, the White Nationalists, and the "Patriot" communities. Linda Blood, author of The New Satanists, had a WTF? moment in the mid-90s at a ritual and cult abuse conference, to the delight of debunker Evan Harrington: "Blood, who spoke later in the day, protested that she was 'unhappy to be following someone [Marqui] who is pushing the Protocols of the Elders of Zion,' which she said was anti-Semitic trash. Blood's protest deeply angered some and bewildered others, while about four of Blood's friends clapped in support." The conspiratocracy nurtures a false opposition on the far right, to cause gentler hearts across the spectrum to turn away in disgust from inquiring after darker secrets, and perhaps also to provide cover to a pool of low-level functionaries.  Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rigorousintuition>Rigorous Intuition</A> at: 2/28/06 5:20 pm

by **biaothanatoi** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:46 pm

Why am I bothering to bite on this one? We'll chalk it up to my masochistic streak. My original post was about the common denominator between Springmeir, Svali and other survivors I have met who talk about the "Illuminati". That demoninator was not that they are all religious - it was that they had all had contact with deliverance ministries. Your little rant is clearly your issue - liberals hate religion, etc etc etc. In my case, it couldn't be further from the truth. I work very closely with religious counselling agencies and psychologists, and they are providing the most comprehensive care and support services for survivors that I 've seen. However, if any agency, of any kind, is revictimising survivors, then we've got an issue. Or are you suggesting that we should turn a blind eye to the actions of those agencies if they are religious?

by **rothbardian** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:48 pm

Thanks 'mother'. I'm still figuring out who is who here at RI. To Jeff: Whoops, that link is confusing. The photo is inside the link somewhere. Here is a direct link to this interesting photo of Pat Robertson flashing this luciferian sign: <a href="http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101860217,00.html">www.time.com/time/covers/...17,00.html</a> I fully understand that Texe Marrs is highly controversial. My feeling is that the PTB have deliberately tried to create a distracting ethnic issue in their pursuit of world dominance. Therefore we should all be deliberately sidestepping the ethnic issue, as far as I'm concerned. Marrs is one of those who stumbles perfectly into this pitfall. Who knows-- maybe he just enjoys being racist. Meanwhile, I do not hesitate to get my info from anywhere on the Net, including Marrs. I've even been known to go to left-leaning sites such as RI. I'll just have to have a gentleman's disagreement with you about the fact that the Left is very standoffish towards 'Bible people'. I think it's amazing, as deeply as you guys are trying to dig for the truth here at RI, that you're barely aware of Svali. Her stuff is indepth and tremendously fascinating. I don't understand this oversight. There is no question that Springmeier is controversial. His name alone ('Fritz') is apparently very 'triggering' to RA victims (or so someone else has claimed). I don't know if he has been a victim himself and is partially recovered...or what the deal is. BUT...his material is noteworthy, to say the least. As I said---his dissection of Billy Graham is spectacular (I'm still looking for a direct link to this one huge essay he has written on Graham). Also, the whole Army of God thing looks very dubious. There has already been one retraction from the media, in the past.

by **rothbardian** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 8:59 pm

My little 'rant' is mostly a "let the chips fall where they may" kind of thing. In other words , I'm not sure what apllies to you directly-I just think somebody like Svali has an important contribution to make. My impression from your comments is that she relied upon "deliverance ministry" for her recovery. But she opposes these sawed off 'deliverance ministry' people.

by **bamabecky** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:37 pm

Question: Luciferians claim they are not Satanic. Luciferians, as I understand it, fashion their beliefs in enities and sun worship. Correct me if I'm wrong. Satanists make no bones about it - they worship Satan. Both seem to be into ritual abuse and sacrifice of humans, or so it seems to me. The Luciferians are more likely to be connected to the Illumanati than the Satanists, or so it seems to me. I guess that is my question to see if my thinking on this is anywhere near correct. This stuff is confusing. Now the "pose" with the hand inside the jacket, I thought that was Freemasonary. Some of the higher level Masons ARE Luceferians, but many "ordinary normal salt of the earth" Masons would cry foul! They are mostly clueless of the higher echelon members of Freemasonary being involved in Luciferian or ritual sacrifice. When they pose themselves in these national magazines, I think they are trying to say to the "ordinary and clueless" Amercian Mason, "Hey, I'm a Mason!" I'm trying to clue in an ordinary Mason of 26 years what the higher levels are up to and he thinks I need a shrink! I actually personally have been aquainted with 2 RA survivors. One I know for certain was a survivor from a Satanic cult that their generational family was a part of. The other was just begining her recovery journey, so her exposure was not know at that time. I KNOW this stuff is real. I imagine there are thousands out there that are way to scared to tell their stories - WAY TOO SCARED! One SR survivor was afraid for me to know anything, afraid that it would put me in danger. That survivor KNEW how well connected THEY were with the police, courts, etc. I have listened to Salvi on Greg Szymanski's Investigative Journal radio at RBNLive.com - look in the recent archives. She was crediable in my book. Bama Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=bamabecky>bamabecky</A> at: 2/28/06 7:22 pm

by **Project Willow** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 9:59 pm

Thanks for resurrecting the thread, I had missed it entirely. Many good points made throughout. I would only argue with you, Biao, that the best way to make a slave is to put him through the labs, that is an mc program, after or simultaneously he is subjected to ra. I wonder sometimes if ra and mc have become synonymous in some of these conversations. They should not be. There are many ra survivors who never get into labs, and there are mc subjects of varying types who didn't come out of cults. I think what also makes the Illuminati question difficult is that unlike some organized crime, these groups communicate. I have no doubt there are various groups all over the place, but somehow, many of them know how to talk to each other, and connect with elites, or elites with them. How else did the government get their ra subjected children for the lab programs? How can cult families move all over the country and continue their activities uninterrupted? I have asked a few survivors about the origin of the term Illuminati. I want to ask more and then post about it. Does Svali mention why she uses it?

by **biaothanatoi** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 10:15 pm

RB, <blockquote>Quote:<hr>My impression from your comments is that she relied upon "deliverance ministry" for her recovery. But she opposes these sawed off 'deliverance ministry' people. <hr></blockquote> Not only does she run a deliverance ministry, but her early interviews were full of references to to the Illuminati and their hand in the 'gay agenda', rock and roll lyrics, and subliminal messages on Sesame St. Over time, her thinking appears to have developed away from the right-wing conspiracy material, but early on in her recovery it was very prominent. The evidence certainly suggests that her recovery from RA was heavily inflected by deliverance Illuminati material.

by **rothbardian** » Tue Feb 28, 2006 11:04 pm

To "biaothanatoi" I just have to requote Svali here: "At best, this approach will cause extreme cynicism in a survivor who finds out that the voices and switching still continue after the “deliverance” and wonder why they can't be helped." ( home.mchsi.com/~ftio/warf...ourney.htm ) I agree with Svali that no RA or MC victim can gain any fundamental recovery from any "deliverance ministry". These deliverance people mistake alternate personalities to be 'evil spirits'. That is a mistake that Svali recognizes so...I'm not sure I understand your point there. If Svali has significantly reintegrated herself through a recovery process, I don't know how she could have accomplished that if she mistook her alters to be 'demons'. You make a comment about "subliminal messages on Sesame St."-- I couldn't tell if you dismiss those types of things. I do know what I saw on Disney's "The Little Mermaid" video (from my child's video collection) the other night: In a wedding scene, the priest unmistakably (you have to be looking for it) develops an erection. I think you'd have to be pretty pollyannish not to conclude there is something pretty sinister and evil going on there. That's not to mention the very clear depiction of phalluses of the cover art of this video. That's not to mention other obnoxious subliminal things in Disney videos. (Survivors like Hollywood filmmaker Kenneth Anger testify to personal encounters with uncle Walt's pedophilia; see his Bizarre magazine interview.) There is something huge going on here that relates to RA/MC. Also, I think you would have to show us where Svali's thinking has gone through a 'development process'. My distinct impression is that her story has stayed the same throughout: She was born into an Illuminati family, and she has reported that this cultic crime syndicate (the Illuminati) has designs on world domination.

by **rothbardian** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 4:27 am

To "bamabecky" ("Project Willow" also): To address a couple of your comments/questions-- In the Good Book of course, Lucifer and Satan are one and the same. I wouldn't be surprised if this super-alien/ET/Lucifer/Satan guy is suffering from the original case of DID (split personality). The trauma of being rejected by his Maker and realizing his ultimate doom might've done the trick. That's just sheer speculation from a Christian angle. (I probably just traumatized all the leftist/non-theists that read RI.) As to your questions about the Illuminati/Satanist issue: People like Svali describe the historical origins of the Illuminati and explain there are many "anarchic" occult groups (Satanists etc.) that cooperate or participate to various degrees with the Illuminati, which is the grand-daddy of all the occult groups (supposedly). I have read about this syndicate from a number of sources, including a very old book (written in 1797) entitled "Proofs of a Conspiracy", which details their emergence through figurehead Adam Weisshaupt (in Munich, Germany in 1776). They were run out of town when it became known they had plans for 'world domination'. That's when 'secret societies' such as the Masons came into play. This touches on your other question about the Freemasons-- Very quickly these Illuminists developed the ingenious concept of ‘social clubs’ with a secret inner core membership. The outer rings of fellowship in these societies had, by design, no knowledge of the nefarious goings-on in the inner circles…and so, over the years the ‘outer’ members have served very well in their role as sincere and impassioned ‘deniers’ about any sinister intrigue. To this very day, a run-of-the-mill Masonic lodge member would be offended (or laugh) at any suggestion of a secret inner core of ‘evil doers’. Here is some of Svali's stuff: <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20011211163911/centrexnews.com/columnists/svali/archive.html">web.archive.org/web/20011...chive.html</a> <a href="http://web.archive.org/web/20011116064130/www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/ritual_abuse">web.archive.org/web/20011...tual_abuse</a> Also...I find it very interesting that Adolf Hitler was apparently the grandson of Rothschild patriarch, Soloman Mayer. I've seen many Internet articles and some books detailing this. Hitler’s grandmother had worked in the Rothschild household in Vienna and had relations with Soloman Mayer, which resulted in an illegitimate son (Alois). Mainstream corroboration came not too long ago when the “History Channel” went so far as to reveal that Hitler had a forbear who’s name was “Soloman”...which they said strongly suggested Jewish lineage. But then they deliberately obscured the rest of the details including the close proximity of this ancestor (grandfather) and the Rothschild connection. Very interesting furtive behavior from the History Channel. The more you learn about the Rothschilds and the Illuminati, the more you see that this would suggest …calculation and control in regards to Hitler. From my understanding, these Illuminists are not people who go around haphazardly creating progeny. After all, think about this--- During WW2 Nazi Germany obviously had no oil fields...so how did they maintain their fuel supply? Answer: There were nefarious international dealings taking place. Many researchers have documented the fact that Rockefeller Standard Oil shipped the fuel to Spain where it was then passed along to Germany. Obviously, Hitler knew where his fuel supplies were coming from. Was he not therefore beholden to, and essentially under the control of…the Illuminati? (google-- Rockefeller Standard Oil Hitler) Below are, again, the links showing photos/paintings of Pat Robertson, Napoleon and Karl Marx all flashing these luciferian signs (Marx is even displaying an occultic pendant, and Napoleon displays pentagrams). There is a connection going back through history. There is something big going on. Pat Robertson: <a href="http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,1101860217,00.html">www.time.com/time/covers/...17,00.html</a> Napoleon: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Napoleon_Bonaparte.jpg">en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ima...aparte.jpg</a> Karl Marx, also flashing the 'Lion's Paw': <a href="http://www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.html">www.historyguide.org/intellect/marx.html</a> Robertson gets a once-in-a-lifetime crack at a Time magazine cover and he flashes a secret hand sign that clearly would not be understood by his Christian audience? I find that to be ominous...and in the context, clearly indicative. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=rothbardian>rothbardian</A> at: 3/1/06 1:47 am

by **bamabecky** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 9:55 am

I was aware of most of the items you posted. Was it Savli or someone else that said the Luciferians don't consider themselves Satanists? I heard one of the survivors say that on RBNLive - can't remember exactly who......that's what gave birth to the question I posed. I'm very much aware of how big and how insidious this network is. Thanks I will check out the links you gave me. Bama Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.

by **rothbardian** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:12 am

I've heard that from Svali and a few others, I believe.

by **Dreams End** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:50 am

shouldn't have been posting this kinda stuff here.

by **rothbardian** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 3:39 pm

Here is one individual I have heard about: Ellen P. Lacter, Ph.D. is a psychologist in the San Diego area who has worked extensively with your scenario. This is her website: <a href="http://truthbeknown2000.tripod.com/Truthbeknown2000/index.html">truthbeknown2000.tripod.c...index.html</a> This is her email address: ellenlacter@earthlink.net I have exchanged emails with her in the past. I hope this is of some help.

by **DavidMartinez** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 3:54 am

So what does the hand signal mean and how is it luciferian? I thought the lions paw was a masonic handshake.

Deliverance ministries, ritual abuse and the ‘Illuminati’

THANK YOU ROTHBARDIAN

rothbardian,

Re: I couldn't resist

PatRobertson/Springmeier etc.

To biaothanatoi:

a question and response

Re: a question and response

Re: To biaothanatoi:

Svali and 'deliverance'

To "bambecky"

Thank You

svali

Re: svali

To DE

hand signal

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