Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmon

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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 4:37 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:I agree that Wayne Madsen is not a credible source. However, Israeli discrimination against Christians in Palestine is very real. This is just a small sample:

Christians in the Holy Land: Under (Israeli) Siege

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

First Published: 2012-02-20

Israeli ‘price tag’ attacks spare no Muslim or Christian site

Attackers daub death threats on walls of Baptist House church in central Jerusalem, vandalise three cars parked nearby in latest hate crime.

Middle East Online

JERUSALEM -
Attackers daubed death threats on the walls of the Baptist House church in central Jerusalem overnight and vandalised three cars parked nearby in the latest "price tag" hate crime, police said on Monday.

"Anti-Christian graffiti was found on the walls of the Baptist church and the tyres of three cars parked nearby were slashed," said police spokesman Micky Rosenfeld of the church which is located on Narkis Street in west Jerusalem.

_____________

Alice wrote:First, it's hard to evaluate such statistics without first knowing if, say, a swastika drawn in chalk, or a very minor incident of rudeness or refusal to give time off work is registered the same as a physical assault or a shooting, or a bombing


Property damage and spittle aren't nothing, by any means. But I don't think they really provide enough of a bulwark between you and a double standard to fully shield you from charges of religious bias under all circumstances, either. You therefore wouldn't want to give anybody the impression that you couldn't distinguish...

Alice wrote:if the zionists say, "Well, that's just ancient history or religious mumbo-jumbo, and therefore irrelevant to us," when it comes to the killing of Christ and the subsequent oath by the ancient Hebrews, "Let his blood be on our heads and on the heads of our children!", then why the hell are they killing and pillaging and plundering Palestinians on the basis of God's commandment to do so? In other words, it's a package deal: either you believe that both the license to kill and steal and the oath taken by the ancient Hebrews are relevant and binding, or that neither is.


...between bible stories and reality, for instance. I mean, that's not a porous boundary, no matter whose bible stories they are. And it hardly helps that it's not a mistake you'll ever see your enemies making, when it counts. Zionism didn't -- and still doesn't -- actually hang its hat on religious imperatives. And Israel was founded in accordance with the UN's partition plan, and not with religious law.

In short: It isn't -- and never has been -- Israeli policy to stake everything -- or even much at all -- on playing the Holy-Land card. In fact, they mostly just use it to beguile the minds of Christians, for PR purposes. After all, the Law of Return itself is premised on Leage-of-Nations mandate/U.N.-Partition-Plan-compatible grounds, not on anything as intangible as religious commandment.

Or as debatable, if it comes to that. Because -- as you're probably already aware -- some inherently non-reformist Jews don't even count making aliyah by moving to Israel as a mitzvah that has to be followed strictly, without a single change or even minor modification, at all, while some see it as a solemn obligation, and still others adhere to a positon that falls somewhere, anywhere or nowhere in between.

Whatever the case: You don't see Israel making that kind of mistake. They just count on you to do that, since -- mirabile dictu -- it gives them a defense strategy that plays in Peoria. Which they need. Being criminals and all.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Simulist » Sun May 06, 2012 4:44 pm

barracuda wrote:Another brief summary of 60 some pages.

Atzmonis a tool of forces larger than himself, but likes to pretend he's a shocking breath of fresh air by regurgitating centuries of Jew-hate in the guise of a new spin.

In other words, he serves to debase Palestinian liberation activation wherever he goes by aligning it explicitly with holocaust deniers and racists.

The usual, predictable cadre of posters here on the forum, who have spent the better part of a decade using code-speak and conspiracy memes as a cover for their true feelings about the Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy to take over everything as well as various shades of blood-libel and holocaust revisionism, have found in Atzmon a spirit guide that allows them to use his language as a new format to reinforce what they already thought they knew but could only talk around due to the board rules.

None of them have the balls to say outright what they think, for fear they'll lose access to their posting privileges here, when they should really be looking for outlets where they might not be so constrained.

Alice has made a complete fool of herself by attempting to school a Jewish intellectual on Jewish law, and in the process shown she's not below just about anything to avoid simply conceding the smallest point of her fanaticism.

It's all pretty much business as usual.

Quite right. On all counts.

This thread has been very illuminating, also terribly disappointing.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby slimmouse » Sun May 06, 2012 4:46 pm

JackRiddler wrote:. But of course I mean the real people, not the faker-parasites who have never given anything here except vague paranoid insinuations and faux-naive Nazi lite, like slimmouse and eyeno. But you'd think genuine contributors to the board, people who have their own personas and ideas and things to say, would tire of compulsively re-posting the same old long-ago irrelevant side-points to the main drama (I'm looking at you, searcher08).


My only surprise here jack , is that you didnt tip your hat to AD. He's awash with genuine thoughts and feelings, rather like yourself. He, like yourself has offered many original ideas and concepts to this discussion.

You guys have broke it all down piece by piece, havent you ?

I guess you havent. I still smell you though. You can take satisfaction from that no doubt.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 4:48 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Hey! What happened to your argument? Only a page or so ago, it was based on the premise that the halakhah was strictly binding on the Orthodox in some way that not only left no room for a single change or even minor modification, but also was so totally equatable with the mitzvot as to render it inconsequential that Atzmon had referred to one and not the other.


More bad faith: I quoted authoritative sources stating that the mitzvot are strictly binding and unchanging.

compared2what? wrote:You were (falsely) equating the mitzvot with the halakhah on the grounds that the former were "integral" to the latter. But that equation only would have worked if he had referred to the halakhah to begin with, had it worked at all. There still wouldn't have been any grounds for claiming that the mitzvot incorporated the halakhah. So it never would (or could) have had any bearing on what Atzmon said. At all.

Even if it had been something other than one great big, gigantic error on your part, born of confusion and compounded by your inability to admit that you were wrong. I mean.


More bad faith: I never equated the mitzvot with the halakhah -- I quoted authoritative sources stating that the halakhah is the Jewish legal system that consists of the 613 mitzvot and other legal texts.

It is you who insists that they are entirely different and separate, and refuse to provide even one source that says so, to back up your baseless insults.


As you're probably already aware, some inherently non-reformist Jews don't even count making aliyah by moving to Israel as a mitzvah that has to be followed strictly, without a single change or even minor modification, at all, while some see it as a solemn obligation, and still others adhere to a positon that falls somewhere, anywhere or nowhere in between.

He's lying. Deal with it.
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More bad faith.

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 4:53 pm

compared2what? wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:** You have failed to prove that Atzmon has lied about anything. Instead, it is you who keep making unsubstantiated claims and then arrogantly insisting that you are right, even though you can't/won't substantiate them.

You've also used sophistry to pretend that black is white and vice versa, notably in your claims about the commandments.

The fact that many of the commandments are not practiced today does not mean that, as you claim, they are not binding or unchangeable. For example, if there is a binding commandment that you must ensure that your parents are well fed, this is only possible as long as they're alive. Similarly, if there's another binding commandment that you must water your backyard lawn three times a week in the summer, this is only possible if you have a house and/or a backyard. Many of the commandments presume certain conditions that existed in ancient times but don't any more. Thus, they remain binding and unchangeable, just as Atzmon said, though inapplicable.


WRT to what I purportedly claimed:

Quote me (in context) or GTFO.

Thanks.


By "in context" I meant: "Please quote me in context making the claims you just attacked me for making." I did not mean, "Please quote me freely admitting that I'm leaving one (1) claim unsupported and declining to support one (1) claim the validity of which has not been called into question and can't be, since it's valid.

As I'm sure you already knew.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby slimmouse » Sun May 06, 2012 4:55 pm

Simulist wrote:
barracuda wrote:Another brief summary of 60 some pages.

Atzmonis a tool of forces larger than himself, but likes to pretend he's a shocking breath of fresh air by regurgitating centuries of Jew-hate in the guise of a new spin.

In other words, he serves to debase Palestinian liberation activation wherever he goes by aligning it explicitly with holocaust deniers and racists.

The usual, predictable cadre of posters here on the forum, who have spent the better part of a decade using code-speak and conspiracy memes as a cover for their true feelings about the Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy to take over everything as well as various shades of blood-libel and holocaust revisionism, have found in Atzmon a spirit guide that allows them to use his language as a new format to reinforce what they already thought they knew but could only talk around due to the board rules.

None of them have the balls to say outright what they think, for fear they'll lose access to their posting privileges here, when they should really be looking for outlets where they might not be so constrained.

Alice has made a complete fool of herself by attempting to school a Jewish intellectual on Jewish law, and in the process shown she's not below just about anything to avoid simply conceding the smallest point of her fanaticism.

It's all pretty much business as usual.

Quite right. On all counts.

This thread has been very illuminating, also terribly disappointing.


I guess I shouldnt expect an apology any time soon for the actions of those labelled "Jews" in Palestine ?

They are of course human beings. Which is exactly my point. What was yours again ?
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 4:56 pm

slimmouse wrote:
So , go ahead C2W, and in fact all the rest of you who believe that these labels can be positive.


What did I do?

I was agreeing with you!
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun May 06, 2012 4:59 pm

Slimmouse, Atzmon is not so much focused on labels as on the danger represented by a racist, aggressive tribalist ideology that induces a pathological condition that he calls "pre-traumatic stress syndrome" among members to justify anything from lying to genocide on the basis that it is 'pre-emptive' or that it benefits 'the tribe'.

He divides Jews into three categories: 1st category Jews are those who worship God through the Jewish faith; the 2nd category Jews are 'ordinary people' who happen to be Jewish, but whose humanism or other values are dominant.

He calls the ones who embrace this toxic ideology "third-category Jews" -- those for whom 'Jewishness' supersedes all other values, whether truth, God, justice, nationality, or even their fellowship with other human beings. These people can be recognized by their supremacist, exclusionary actions and their presumption that 'Jewishness' is a license to violate others' rights.

Above all, Atzmon does not talk about any kind of conspiracy -- there's nothing conspiratorial about it, because it's all out in the open. Enough intimidation, threats and accusations of "antisemitism" will make most people refuse to acknowledge even what's happening right in front of their eyes, let alone try to do anything about it. Furthermore, no conspiracy is necessary; guided by this ideology, each individual contributes to the whole without necessarily even being aware of how or even that he or she is doing so.

Only recently have people in the West been allowed even to acknowledge the horrific consequences of this toxic, tribalist ideology, and even then, only on the Palestinian people under Israel's direct rule.

Now it is past time for all people to take a hard look at the ideology itself, and true scope of its destructiveness.

This passage from the essay I posted on page 59, is a pretty good summary of his conclusions:

If we take the necessary step and re-define Zionism as a modern form of Jewish activism which aims at halting assimilation, we can then re-asses the entire Jewish tribal political activity as an internal debate within a diverse Zionist political movement. We should then regard the colonizing of Palestine as not more than just one single face of Zionism. In fact, Jewish Socialism fits very nicely into the Zionist project. Being an integral part of the Zionist network, it is concerned with the future of the Jewish secular tribe, it is there to collect the lost souls amongst the Jewish leftists and it brings them back to Blooms.

The shift towards presenting Zionism in a new terminology invites us to regard Zionism as global Jewish tribal political activism. The Israeli Lobby, the Dershowitzes of the world, the Harry’s Places of the net, the David Hirshes of the Goldsmith Colleges, are there to globally spread the voice of Israel, the colonial endeavor. The 3rd category socialists, on the other hand, are there to stop proud self-hating Jews from blowing the whistle. The Jewish Socialists are there to prevent you from reading the words you are engaged with right now.

Seemingly, Jewish Socialists protest against the Jewish State. They clearly denounce Israeli occupation and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. God bless them for that. Yet, very much like the Jewish State, they themselves engage in Jewish tribal activity which aims at halting assimilation and enforcing monolithic collective thought. Moreover, Bard, Rosenberg and comrades may as well believe in ‘One Palestine’. God bless them for that as well. However, they want this ‘One Palestine’ to be ‘secular and democratic’. Not that I am against democracy or secularity, seemingly Palestinians in the occupied territories may have something else in mind: they have voted Hamas, not exactly the most secular movement around (though democratically elected). As it seems, the British Jewish Socialists do not see the need to provide an ideological explanation. Seemingly, they do not take the Palestinian vote very seriously, once confronted, they would insist that the Palestinians didn’t really vote Hamas, they were just ‘protesting’ against the PLO.

At this stage it is rather crucial to raise the issue of intentionality. Are they, Bard, Rosen and comrades, fully aware of their Zionist role? Do they really consciously act on behalf of an abstract tribal network, namely Zionism? If to be honest, I really do not think so. I genuinely do not believe that they are consciously aware of the grand tribal project they serve with such great enthusiasm. At the same time, most Israelis including IDF soldiers at road blocks in the occupied territories and even pilots who throw bombs on highly populated neighbourhoods in Gaza are not fully aware of the large scope of the Zionist project that they serve. This is exactly why Zionism, a successful project, a global monster with no head but with a lot of body, is a victorious political agenda. It sets the modern framework of conclusive Jewish tribalism by incorporating all elements into a magnetic power. Moreover, it transforms its opposition into a productive force. Zionism is indeed not that easy to fight.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 5:00 pm

slimmouse wrote:
Simulist wrote:
barracuda wrote:Another brief summary of 60 some pages.

Atzmonis a tool of forces larger than himself, but likes to pretend he's a shocking breath of fresh air by regurgitating centuries of Jew-hate in the guise of a new spin.

In other words, he serves to debase Palestinian liberation activation wherever he goes by aligning it explicitly with holocaust deniers and racists.

The usual, predictable cadre of posters here on the forum, who have spent the better part of a decade using code-speak and conspiracy memes as a cover for their true feelings about the Worldwide Jewish Conspiracy to take over everything as well as various shades of blood-libel and holocaust revisionism, have found in Atzmon a spirit guide that allows them to use his language as a new format to reinforce what they already thought they knew but could only talk around due to the board rules.

None of them have the balls to say outright what they think, for fear they'll lose access to their posting privileges here, when they should really be looking for outlets where they might not be so constrained.

Alice has made a complete fool of herself by attempting to school a Jewish intellectual on Jewish law, and in the process shown she's not below just about anything to avoid simply conceding the smallest point of her fanaticism.

It's all pretty much business as usual.

Quite right. On all counts.

This thread has been very illuminating, also terribly disappointing.


I guess I shouldnt expect an apology any time soon for the actions of those labelled "Jews" in Palestine ?

They are of course human beings. Which is exactly my point. What was yours again ?


Probably not. But don't accept one, if they offer it. They're committing crimes against humanity,
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby JackRiddler » Sun May 06, 2012 5:11 pm

slimmouse wrote:You can take satisfaction from that no doubt.


The only satisfaction you could give me would be never to make me have to skip over one of your posts here again.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 5:25 pm

AlicetheKurious wrote:
compared2what? wrote:
AlicetheKurious wrote:** You have failed to prove that Atzmon has lied about anything. Instead, it is you who keep making unsubstantiated claims and then arrogantly insisting that you are right, even though you can't/won't substantiate them.

You've also used sophistry to pretend that black is white and vice versa, notably in your claims about the commandments.

The fact that many of the commandments are not practiced today does not mean that, as you claim, they are not binding or unchangeable. For example, if there is a binding commandment that you must ensure that your parents are well fed, this is only possible as long as they're alive. Similarly, if there's another binding commandment that you must water your backyard lawn three times a week in the summer, this is only possible if you have a house and/or a backyard. Many of the commandments presume certain conditions that existed in ancient times but don't any more. Thus, they remain binding and unchangeable, just as Atzmon said, though inapplicable.


WRT to what I purportedly claimed:

Quote me (in context) or GTFO.

Thanks.



How vulgar. How quickly the facade crumbles.

Given the bad faith you've displayed so far, I guess it's far too much to expect that you'd ever apologize for telling me to GTFU. I'll assume that no apology is forthcoming or even possible.


No need for flying blind. I do apologize for that. I didn't intend any offense by it. It's not offensive, by my standards. Bur that's irrelevant, since they're not the ones that count. So thanks for bringing it to my attention that I offended yours. I'm sincerely sorry for it.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby Searcher08 » Sun May 06, 2012 5:48 pm

compared2what? wrote:
slimmouse wrote:
So , go ahead C2W, and in fact all the rest of you who believe that these labels can be positive.


What did I do?

I was agreeing with you!


You are now awarded "RI Honorary Irish Woman"
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 06, 2012 6:14 pm

Thanks. I actually just checked in to see if the argument had yet been made that since aliyah isn't one of the 613 mitzvot, therefore aliens.

Or something that makes about as much sense as that, relative to reality, anyway. If one is familiar with same.
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun May 06, 2012 7:12 pm

compared2what? wrote:Zionism didn't -- and still doesn't -- actually hang its hat on religious imperatives. And Israel was founded in accordance with the UN's partition plan, and not with religious law.

In short: It isn't -- and never has been -- Israeli policy to stake everything -- or even much at all -- on playing the Holy-Land card. In fact, they mostly just use it to beguile the minds of Christians, for PR purposes. After all, the Law of Return itself is premised on Leage-of-Nations mandate/U.N.-Partition-Plan-compatible grounds, not on anything as intangible as religious commandment.


No, zionists are opportunistic, supremacist, self-serving and utterly devoid of principle. Religion, morality, truth and even reality are all things that they believe they have the right to shape to suit their own purposes, whenever they want.

When it was convenient to do so, Israel billed itself as a "socialist state" and utilized socialist slogans to recruit colonists to cultivate Arab land in collective agricultural units called kibbutzes. Kibbutzes tended to be located in sparsely-populated areas where there were few remaining Palestinians.

In 1967, Israel invaded areas that were heavily populated by Palestinians, including the West Bank. Unlike the 'kibbutzniks', many of whom actually believed in socialist principles, those capable of setting up racist Jewish settlements surrounded by the indigenous population would face stiff opposition. The most extreme Jewish fanatics were ideal for this purpose, if only their numbers could be increased.

The groundwork was laid with the proclamation that Israel's conquest was a 'miracle'. Extremist disciples of Rabbi Abraham Kook were subsidized and otherwise nurtured by the state; with state support, they were encouraged to set up schools to indoctrinate a new generation into the teachings of the extremist Rabbi Kook into the belief that ethnic cleansing and even genocide were commanded by God, and that the indigenous population of Palestinians are animals. The state allowed the students in these yeshivas to combine their military service with their studies. As a result, within a decade, the these armed fanatics had come to dominate the religious settler movement, which has continued to grow rapidly, especially after the Likud victory in 1977, when they were provided with generous housing subsidies and tax breaks. During the same period, especially from the late 1970s onward, zionist propaganda targeted synagogues abroad with a message that portrayed Israel as a holy project:

Arguably a rather large percentage of American Jews may be called religious Zionists. Many, if not most Jewish congregations in America pray for the State of Israel and refer to it as “Reishit Shmichat Geulateinu” or the “beginning of our redemption.” This prayer, as well as others, reflect the view that the Jewish State has value not only culturally or politically, but religiously as well. The religious interpretation of Jewish sovereignty is also unmistakably evident in the focus on the State of Israel in sermons and synagogue activities and in the religiously oriented celebrations of Yom Ha’atzmaut (Independence Day) and Yom Hazikaron (Memorial Day).

...

Much of American Jewry relates to the modern Jewish nation state as something “holy.” Conditioned as Americans are to view religion and state as inherently separate domains, it may seem strange for American Jewry to view the Israeli Knesset (parliament) as a religiously important body. Yet this is the only possible interpretation one could give to the prayers and verses found in the prayer books of most Reform, Conservative and Orthodox Jews across the country. Link


"All over the world, Jews who are true to the Torah are outraged by this ongoing Zionist ploy, in which the Zionists attempt to create the impression that the holy Torah is behind their hard-line, nationalistic goals," said Rabbi Leopold Klein, a spokesman for True Torah Jews.

"It is crucial at this time to clarify the Torah's true position on this matter, as well as review the past sixty years in the history of Sephardic Jewry and the Shas Party.

"Judaism is a faith and the Torah is at the core of that faith; Zionism is a political movement that is inherently anti-Torah and, consequently, anti-Judaism. Since its inception, Zionism has brought untold pain and suffering upon Jews all across the globe. Cruel-heartedly, Zionist leaders uprooted thousands of Jews from their native countries, converting them away from Judaism and the Torah. In particular, the Zionists uprooted and almost completely assimilated the traditional Yemenite, Moroccan, Iraqi, and Algerian Sephardic Jewish communities; the Zionists leaders then exploited these immigrants as slave-laborers under sub-human conditions to help develop the State of Israel.

"Even the minority of Sephardic Jews who succeeded in clinging to Judaism were soon successfully brainwashed with Zionist ideals. Today, these religious Sephardic Jews continue to be exploited – much like their brethren several decades ago – to promote the Zionist agenda. With cunning manipulation, the Zionist leaders make sure that the blame for political offenses is continually placed on the 'religious parties' rather than on the actual culprits, the Zionist leaders themselves.

"In this manner, the Zionist leaders attempt to cloak their political agenda in a veil of 'religious' and 'Torah' objectives. As a result of this deception and mockery of the Torah and the Jewish faith, individuals all across the globe may view the holy Torah, as well as Torah-true Jewry, as politically extreme and against peace. Link


    Book Review
    Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel

    By Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky. London:Pluto Press,1999, 176 pp.List: $18.95; AET: $16.00
    Reviewed by Allan C. Brownfeld


    In recent years there has been a dramatic growth of Jewish fundamentalism in Israel which has manifested itself in vigorous opposition to the peace process and has played a key role, as well, in the assassination of Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and the murder of 29 Muslims at prayer by the American-born fundamentalist, Baruch Goldstein.

    Few outside of Israel have been properly informed about the extent of the fundamentalist movement or the theology upon which it is based. American Jews, in particular, seem unaware of the narrow ethnocentrism which is promoted by the movement’s leading rabbis, or of the traditional Jewish sources they are able to call upon in drawing clear distinctions between the moral obligations owed to Jews and non-Jews.

    In an important new book, Jewish Fundamentalism In Israel, Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinksy provide a thorough assessment of this phenomenon in modern Israel. The authors trace the history and development of Jewish fundamentalism, examining the various strains, and identify the messianic tendency which they believe to be the most dangerous.

    Israel Shahak, an Israeli and a Holocaust survivor, is a retired professor at the Hebrew University and a leading human rights activist. Norton Mezvinsky is a professor of history at Central Connecticut State University who has written and lectured extensively on the modern Middle East.

    The authors point out that “…the adherents of Jewish fundamentalism in Israel oppose equality for all citizens, especially non-Jews.” The respected Israeli sociologist Baruch Kimmerling, citing evidence from a study conducted by other scholars, declared: “The value of the [Jewish] religion, at least in its Orthodox and nationalistic form that prevails in Israel, cannot be squared with democratic values. No other variable—neither nationality, nor attitudes about security, nor social or economic values, nor ethnic descent and education—so influences the attitudes of [Israeli] Jews against democratic values as does religiousity.”

    What particularly concerns the authors is the total contempt which Jewish fundamentalists show toward non-Jews. Rabbi Kook the Elder, the revered father of the messianic tendency of Jewish fundamentalism, said, “The difference between a Jewish soul and souls of non-Jews—all of them in all different levels—is greater and deeper than the difference between a human soul and the souls of cattle.”

    Rabbi Kook’s entire teaching, which is followed devoutly by, among others, those who have led the settler movement on the occupied West Bank
    , is based upon the Lurianic Cabbala, the school of Jewish mysticism that dominated Judaism from the late16th to the early 19th century. “One of the basic tenets of the Lurianic Cabbala,” the authors write, “is the absolute superiority of the Jewish soul and body over the non-Jewish soul and body. According to the Lurianic Cabbala, the world was created solely for the sake of Jews; the existence of non-Jews was subsidiary. If an influential Christian bishop or Islamic scholar argued that the difference between the superior souls of non-Jews and the inferior souls of Jews was greater than the difference between the human soul and souls of cattle, he would incur the wrath of all and be viewed as an anti-Semite by most Jewish scholars regardless of whatever less meaningful, positive statements he included.”

    The scholarly authors of books about Jewish mysticism and the Lurianic Cabbala, such as Gershon Scholem, have, the authors charge, “willfully omitted reference to such ideas. These authors are supreme hypocrites. They are analogous to many authors of books on Stalin and Stalinism. Until recently, people who read only the books written by Stalinists could not know about Stalin’s crimes and would have false notions of the Stalinist regimes and their real ideologies.”

    According to the ideologies which underlie Gush Emunim, the militant West Bank settlers group, and Hasidism, non-Jews have “satanic souls” Shahak and Mezvinsky note that “the role of Satan, whose earthly embodiment according to the Cabbala is every non-Jew, has been minimized or not mentioned by authors who have not written about the Cabbala in Hebrew. Such authors, therefore, have not conveyed to readers accurate accounts of general NRP (National Religious Party) or its hardcore Gush Emunim politics.”

    Common to both the Talmud and Halacha, Orthodox religious law, is a differentiation between Jews and non-Jews. The late, highly revered Rabbi Menachem Mendel Schneerson, the “Lubovitcher Rebbe” who headed the Chabad movement and wielded great influence in Israel as well as in the U.S., explained that, “The difference between a Jewish and a non-Jewish person stems from the common expression: ‘Let us differentiate.’ Thus, we do not have a case of profound change in which a person is merely on a superior level. Rather, we have a case of ‘let us differentiate’ between totally different species. This is what needs to be said about the body: the body of a Jewish person is of a totally different quality from the body of [members] of all nations of the world…A non-Jew’s entire reality is only vanity. It is written, ‘And the strangers shall guard and feed your flocks’ (Isaiah 61:5). The entire creation [of a non-Jew] exists only for the sake of the Jews…”

    Rabbi Schneerson always supported Israeli wars and opposed any retreat. In 1974 he strongly opposed the Israeli withdrawal from the Suez area. He promised Israel divine favors if it persisted in occupying the land. After his death, thousands of his Israeli followers played an important role in the election victory of Binyamin Netanyahu. Among the religious settlers in the occupied territories, the Chabad Hassids constitute one of the most extreme groups. Baruch Goldstein, the mass murderer of Palestinians, was one of them.

    Rabbi Yitzhak Ginsburgh, who wrote a chapter of a book in praise of Goldstein and what he did, is another member of this group. An immigrant to Israel from the U.S., Rabbi Ginsburgh speaks freely of Jews’ genetic-based, spiritual superiority over non-Jews. “If you saw two people drowning, a Jew and a non-Jew, the Torah says you save the Jewish life first,” Ginsburgh states. “If every simple cell in a Jewish body entails divinity, is a part of God, then every strand of DNA is part of God. Therefore, something is special about Jewish DNA…If a Jew needs a liver, can you take the liver of an innocent non-Jew passing by to save him? The Torah would probably permit that. Jewish life has an infinite value.”

    Shahak and Mezvinsky point out that, “Changing the words ‘Jewish’ to ‘German’ or ‘Aryan’ and ‘non-Jewish’ to ‘Jewish’ turns the Ginsburgh position into the doctrine that made Auschwitz possible in the past. To a considerable extent the German Nazi success depended upon that ideology and upon its implications of being widely known early. Disregarding even on a limited scale the potential effects of messianic, Lubavitch and other ideologies could prove to be calamitous…The similarities between the Jewish political messianic trend and German Nazism are glaring. The Gentiles are for the messianists what the Jews were for the Nazis. The hatred of Western culture with its rational and democratic elements is common to both movements…The ideology…is both eschatological and messianic. It resembles in this respect prior Jewish religious doctrines as well as similar trends in Christianity and Islam. This ideology assumes the imminent coming of the Messiah and asserts that the Jews, aided by God, will thereafter triumph over the non-Jews and rule over them forever.”

    Members of Gush Emunim argue that “what appears to be confiscation of Arab-owned land for subsequent settlement by Jews is in reality not an act of stealing but one of sanctification. From their perspective the land is redeemed by being transferred from the satanic to the divine sphere…the Gush Emunim rabbis assert that this one messianic sect has to handle and lead the ass-like Jews, who have been corrupted by satanic Western culture, with its rationality and democracy and who refuse to renounce their beastly habits and embrace the true faith. To further the process, the use of force is permitted wherever necessary.”

    The Jewish fundamentalists believe that God gave all of the Land of Israel (including present-day Lebanon and other areas) to the Jews and that Arabs living in Israel are viewed as thieves. Rabbi Israel Ariel, a fundamentalist leader, published an atlas that designated all lands that were Jewish and needed to be liberated. This included all areas west and south of the Euphrates River extending through most of Syria, much of Iraq, and present-day Kuwait.

    Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, another spokesman, said, “We must live in this land even at the price of war. Moreover, even if there is peace, we must instigate wars of liberation in order to conquer it [the land].”

    Mordechai Nisan, a lecturer at the Hebrew University, expressed this view in an official publication of the World Zionist Organization. Relying on Maimonides, he said that a non-Jew permitted to reside in the land of Israel “must accept paying a tax and suffering the humiliation of servitude.” He said that non-Jews must not be appointed to any office or position of power over Jews.

    When it comes to Baruch Goldstein’s murder of 29 Palestinians at prayer, fundamentalists refuse to acknowledge that such an act constitutes “murder” because, according to the Halacha, “the killing by a Jew of a non-Jew under any circumstances is not regarded as murder. It may be prohibited for other reasons, especially when it causes danger for Jews.” When asked if he was sorry about the murdered Arabs, militant Rabbi Moshe Levenger declared: “I am sorry not only about dead Arabs but about dead flies.”

    For the fundamentalists, Goldstein became a hero. Military guards transported his coffin to Kiryat Arba through Palestinian villages. Rabbi Dov Lior in a eulogy stated that, “Goldstein was full of love for fellow human beings. He dedicated himself to helping others.” Authors Shahak and Mezvinsky write that, “The terms ‘human beings’ and ‘others’ in the Halacha refer solely to Jews.”

    Although messianic fundamentalists constitute a relatively small portion of the Israeli population, their political influence has been growing. If they have contempt for non-Jews, their hatred for Jews who oppose their views is even greater.

    The murder of Yitzhak Rabin, the authors show, is one in a long line of murders of Jews who followed a path different from that ordained by rabbinic authorities. They cite case after case, from the Middle Ages until the 19th century.

    One typical example was the assassination by poison of Rabbi Avraham Cohen in Lemberg, Austria on Sept. 6, 1848.

    Assuming his rabbinical position in 1844, Cohen initiated changes in Jewish life. His most important initiative was his attempt to abolish taxes on kosher meat and sabbath candles which Lemberg’s Jews paid to Austrian authorities. These taxes were burdensome for poor Jews but were a source of income for many Orthodox Jewish notables.

    The Austrian authorities accepted Cohen’s request and abolished the taxes in March 1848. The five Jewish notables of the town began a total struggle against Rabbi Cohen. Critics argued that the “law of the pursuer” applied to the rabbi. One placard said: “He is one of those Jewish sinners for which the Talmud says their blood is permitted” (that is, every Jew can and should kill them). On Sept. 6, a Jewish assassin successfully entered the rabbi’s home unseen, went to the kitchen and put arsenic poison in a pot of soup that was cooking. Both Rabbi Cohen and his small daughter died. The Hassids and their leaders did not attend the funeral, but celebrated.

    It was precisely the same Talmudic laws that caused Rabbi Cohen’s death which were used to murder Yitzhak Rabin. Yigal Amir, Rabin’s assassin, cited the “law of the pursuer” (din rodef) and the “Law of the informer” (din moser). The first law commands every Jew to kill or to wound severely any Jew who is perceived as intending to kill another Jew. According to halachic commentaries, it is not necessary to see such a person pursuing a Jewish victim. It is enough if rabbinic authorities, or even competent scholars, announce that the law of the pursuer applies. The second law commands every Jew to kill or wound severely any Jew who, without a decision of a competent rabbinic authority, has informed non-Jews about Jewish affairs or has given them information about Jewish property or who has delivered Jewish persons or property to their rule or authority.

    The authors write: “The land of Israel has been and still is considered by all religious Jews as being the exclusive property of the Jews. Granting Palestinians authority over any part of this land could be interpreted as informing. Some religious Jews interpreted the relations that developed between Rabin and the Palestinian Authority as causing harm to the Jewish settlers. In this sense, Rabin had informed.”

    For the future, the authors fear the growth of such fundamentalism just as the prospects for peace have dramatically improved. They note that, “It should not be forgotten that democracy and the rule of law were brought into Judaism from the outside. Before the advent of the modern state, Jewish communities were mostly ruled by rabbis who employed arbitrary and cruel methods as bad as those employed by totalitarian regimes. The dearest wish of the current Jewish fundamentalists is to restore this state of affairs.”

    This book should be a wake-up call to many Americans, particularly Jewish supporters of Israel who are not aware of the nature of the fundamentalism which is growing strong in that country. This fundamentalism is increasing in influence as a result of Israel’s electoral system, which bestows power to minority parties far beyond their representation in the population. The authors declare: “We believe that awareness is the necessary first step in opposition.” Professors Shahak and Mezvinsky have done a notable service for men and women of goodwill of all religious traditions by pointing to the ideological roadblocks to genuine peace which must be overcome. Link
"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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Re: Anti-Imperialism & Anti-Humanist Rhetoric of Gilad Atzmo

Postby AlicetheKurious » Sun May 06, 2012 7:45 pm

compared2what? wrote:Israel was founded in accordance with the UN's partition plan...


"If you're not careful the newspapers will have you hating the oppressed and loving the people doing the oppressing." - Malcolm X
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