The silence is deafening.

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threating to cut you up?!!!!!!!!

Postby michael meiring » Sun Nov 06, 2005 1:45 pm

Gouda<br><br>'''''''''''''''''''''''''''Meiring – are you threatening to slice me up? Not been there, but have been in the neighborhood. A pilgrimage is order''''''''''''''''''''''''''<br><br>Not at all gouda, your screen name indicated a cheese delicacy theme, so i thought i would try to lighten our debate a little. I also reminisced to myself the great time i had in Gouda, and Holland in general.<br><br>Seems we are all falling into a few ambushes at the moment. Regarding misinterpreting things posted here.<br><br>I find it especially revealing when annie liveria can post sheer hatred on these boards of truly twisted sicko logic and get congradgualted by the owner of the site, very revealing indeed.<br><br>If one dares to confront posters with such obvious disingormation and calls them on it, especially it seems 'sensitive topics' then that will get you an instant ban here.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Heh

Postby Dreams End » Mon Nov 07, 2005 1:41 am

Here I haven't even READ this thread and some of you STILL complain about my gatekeeping. See, you DID miss me.<br><br>Actually, I'm waiting for IR's post on this one. She constantly complains that none of our posts address the evils of the government of Israel and that somehow our discussion of Nazis inhibits her from posting on these. So she's been pretty short on specifics. I'll read her response to Gouda's questions with interest. so that's all I'll say on this for now.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Heh

Postby israelirealities » Mon Nov 07, 2005 3:49 am

Perseverance despite the misjudgement of others is vital.<br><br>I am just suffering from a brief performance anxiety, especially regarding my spelling. reminds me of first grade, the first time I was asked to the board...and I am also waiting to see what transpires on the hamlin "california/Satanic" thread.<br><br>will be back later today (tonight for you)<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: between the devil and the deep blue sea, just a sketch

Postby israelirealities » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:06 am

Gouda's questions -<br><br>What could people do with respect to ISrael ? I think this was your question to me. ANd you mentioned JVP and Tikkun and JATO, divestment and Rachel Corrie.<br>Clarification of terms first...(before there's another misunderstanding. In ISrael the meaning of the term Zionism is totally different than the way you are using it. Zionism in Israel has two meanings )1 the historical movement for national liberation of Jews, as a rebellious force against the Orthodox exilic concepts that prevailed prior to that (namely, that Jews are not allowed to return to Zion and/or seek other form of sovereignity until messiah comes and explicitly says its ok). 2/ it is by and large a slang for "patriotism" or being a good caring and voluteering citizen. sort of "scouts mentality". <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=israelirealities@rigorousintuition>israelirealities</A> at: 11/7/05 8:53 am<br></i>
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I think I'll step into this

Postby bamabecky » Mon Nov 07, 2005 2:09 pm

I think we are getting all tied up into knots over terminology. Zionism means one thing to some and something else entirely to others. I feel the Jews have been victimized by the Freemasonry Brotherhood Elite just as much if not more so that the rest of us. This is a good discussion frustrated only by the lack of understanding (I think) of the Freemasonry Brotherhood Elite (Rothschilds and Rockefellers and others).<br><br>I liked this quote from Qutb, but would rather substitute the term Freemasonry Brotherhood Elite where he uses the term Zionism:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The Zionists rule the world behind the scenes, with their allies the Freemasons, who are also Zionists in disguise. They control the United States and use its army to fight wars for Israel. They have used their control of the media and Hollywood to create the myth of the Holocaust, in order to create sympathy for Zionism among the goyim. The omnipotent Mossad, their covert arm, orchestrated 9/11 in order to create even more sympathy for Zionism. All Islamist terrorism is false-flag Mossad operations. They dominate international banking and use it as a tool to oppress the goyim. Their machinations were exposed in the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, which was discovered by the Russian secret police shortly before the Zionists orchestrated the Russian Revolution. The Zionists worship Satan, who is the God of the Talmud. They sacrifice children to Satan in black magic rituals. They control the British royal family, the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England and the European Central Bank. The Rothschild family is their undisputed leaders and must be regarded as the real lords of this world and the source of all its evils.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And this from Homeless Halo:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Several of the above posts have well summarized my reasons for generally avoiding the "israel/palesetine" discussion. Mostly the "Zionist" "nazi" memes get frustrating to sift through after a while………throw away terms like those above from the discussion completely, and attempt to move forward with illumination in dark places...?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Now go to these two websites below and look at these two images. Ask yourself; WHAT does this have to do with Jewry? Not much, I say! The writers at this web page contend that this Israeli Supreme Court is to be the New World Order “World Court”? What do yall think of that? And just get a load of the symbolism!<br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297062.shtml" target="top">portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297062.shtml</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>and <br><br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://publish.portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297814.shtml" target="top">publish.portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/09/297814.shtml</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br>Forgive my spelling! Spell check never works for me.<br>Bama<br> <p>Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.</p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 5:05 pm

"In 1962, Look Magazine asked leading personalities to envisage the world 25 years hence in 1987. Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion had the advantage of knowing the blueprint of the future. He worked for Rothschild. <br><br>He predicted that by 1987 "the Cold War will be a thing of the past" and there will be a "gradual democratization of the Soviet Union." Western and Eastern Europe will become a "federation of autonomous states." All "other continents will be united in a world alliance, at whose disposal will be an international police force. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>All armies will be abolished and there will be no more wars</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->." <br><br>That's EXACTLY how I imagine the New World Order will be. I suspect they'll start a global war and frighten us into this new era of peace with intense gratitude. A nuclear attack on North Korea woulfd kick it off nicely.<br><br><br>"He continues: "In Jerusalem, the United Nations will build a Shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the scene of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah." <br><br>That too, The New Jerusalem, absolutely perfect for American born again types who have been sold the idea of a golden age and New Agers too of course. The small problem being it will be the same gangsters and thugs in charge that we have now.<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eric144>eric144</A> at: 11/7/05 2:17 pm<br></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby Dreams End » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:05 pm

Here's the full text of the indymedia anonymously posted article linked by Bama. Since we are waiting for IR's analysis of the situation in Israel, I thought I'd get her take on this article as well. You can go to bama's second link and see that it is clearly taken from this article. <br><br>My opinion of this article will not be hard to guess. But I did say I'd hold my tongue till IR explained specifically what evils in the government of Israel she would like to change. I think it goes beyond the current elected officials, so I am curious to see what structural changes she would find necessary. Personally, I vote for overthrowing capitalism in general, and will be happy if this is part of her proposal. Here's the article. Maybe IR will comment on this too.<br><br>As for Bama, I've highlighted the most disconcerting portions and would love to ask why you find these unsourced allegations to be true.<br><br><br>By Henry Makow Ph.D.<br>March 14, 2004 <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.savethemales.ca/000357.html">www.savethemales.ca/000357.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>They are advancing the Rothschilds' program of world dictatorship as outlined in The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. These Lucifer-loving bankers and their confederates would like you to believe the Protocols is a forgery. It is not. It is the blueprint of the new world order unfolding before our eyes.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The major wars of the Twentieth Century were all fought to advance this plan for elitist tyranny.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>For example, U.S participation in World War One, which cost 300,000 US dead and wounded, was a <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>quid pro quo between World Zionism and the British government</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.<br><br>In 1916, the British were facing defeat and desperately needed US help. The Zionists promised to deliver American muscle in exchange for the 1917 Balfour Declaration that promised a Zionist state in Palestine.<br><br>Leon de Poncins, in State Secrets (1975), cites a well-known English Zionist who was privy to the negotiations.<br><br>Samuel Landman was editor of The Zionist and Secretary of the Zionist Council of the United Kingdom. His book, Great Britain, The Jews and Palestine (1936), published under the auspices of the Zionist Association, was intended to remind Britain of her obligations.<br><br>Landman writes that the only way to induce Woodrow Wilson to enter the war in 1917 was "to enlist and mobilize the hitherto unsuspectedly powerful forces of Zionist Jews in America and elsewhere in favour of the Allies on a quid pro quo contract basis.... The Balfour Declaration of 1917 was but the public confirmation of a necessarily secret 'gentleman's' agreement of 1916 ... and not merely a voluntary, altruistic and romantic gesture on the part of Great Britain..." (Leon de Poncins, p.13, emphasis mine)<br><br>De Poncins also cites Prof. H.M.V. Temperley: <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>"The Balfour Declaration was a definite contract between the British government and [organized] Jewry."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> (History of the Peace Conference in Paris, vol. 6, p. 173)<br><br>If Germany had not lost World War One, there would have been no Hitler, no Second World War, no holocaust and no Israel. See also "The Crime Called World War I."<br><br>How did the Zionists have this power? <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>US President Woodrow Wilson was the puppet of Rothschild agent Edward House. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->The Balfour Declaration took the form of a letter addressed to none other than Lord Lionel Rothschild.<br><br>From the start, Israel was the Rothschilds' personal project. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It was never needed as a homeland for the Jews. Along with Communism, it was a pincer in the Rothschilds' megalomaniac vision of a world state ruled by them and dedicated to Lucifer. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->They use their control over US government credit to finance Israel, which is the future world capital. Americans are dying in Iraq to advance this agenda.<br><br>WORLD SUPREME COURT ALREADY COMPLETE<br><br>In 1962, Look Magazine asked leading personalities to envisage the world 25 years hence in 1987. Israeli Prime Minister David Ben Gurion had the advantage of knowing the blueprint of the future. He worked for Rothschild.<br><br>He predicted that by 1987 "the Cold War will be a thing of the past" and there will be a "gradual democratization of the Soviet Union." Western and Eastern Europe will become a "federation of autonomous states." All "other continents will be united in a world alliance, at whose disposal will be an international police force. All armies will be abolished and there will be no more wars."<br><br>He continues: "In Jerusalem, the United Nations will build a Shrine of the Prophets to serve the federated union of all continents; this will be the scene of the Supreme Court of Mankind, to settle all controversies among the federated continents, as prophesied by Isaiah."<br><br>The new Israeli Supreme Court looks like it was intended to be the Supreme Court of Mankind. It was designed, built and paid for by the Rothschilds. It is full of Masonic references and symbols. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Many authorities believe Freemasonry is Judaism for gentiles.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>In his article "Roots of Evil in Jerusalem," Jerry Golden describes the Masonic pyramid on the roof of the building. "As we turn to the left and begin to walk towards the Pyramid we notice a metal strip in the marble floor. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The Ley-Lines cross directly under the pyramid; they run from this place to different places in the city. It is where the Judges and others can stand to receive knowledge and power. [They will be] standing directly over a piece of crystal with the All Seeing Eye of Lucifer the light bearer above them.<br><br>"For those who are not aware of the term Ley-Lines, it is lines in geographical places that Witches, Warlock, and Wizards walk claiming for the Devil. If you will notice in every large city all palm readers and such are usually on the same street that is a ley-line."</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>In another article, Golden says most Israeli politicians and Supreme Court judges are freemasons belonging to the Mizraim Lodge, "the ones who wrote the Protocols of Zion, the enemies of the Jewish people." He says they are the "heart and soul of the Synagogue of Satan" i.e. the Illuminati. He concludes "those who planned the destruction of Israel are now in control, in Israel."<br><br>CONCLUSIONS<br><br>The Rothschild-led banking monopoly has deflected and marginalized opposition by characterizing it as anti Semitic. "Anti Semitism" is really opposition to the illuminist program of world domination. Many Jews have been duped by "anti Semitism" and images of "social justice" (Communism, Socialism, Liberalism, Feminism) and a national homeland (Zionism.) The secret aim of these Jewish dominated movements is to destabilize society and advance Illuminist world government. Neo Conservatism is another.<br><br>Jews have been sacrificed and may be sacrificed again. It's time we "lesser brethren" disassociated from organized Jewry, which is run by this evil cabal. It's time we started new organizations that reflect our real interests.<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>The 200,000 plus American soldiers in the Middle East and Afghanistan are part of the "international police force" mentioned by Ben Gurion. They are New World Order enforcers sent to eliminate Sadaam Hussein because he gave the Muslims backbone.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> Recently they removed President Jean Bertrand Aristide because he also defied the bankers.<br><br>George W and his cronies are paid off with a share of the Iraq boondoggle. His father is a major investor in the Carlyle Group, defence contractors.<br><br>Americans must ask how long they will continue to be proxies. More than 500 young men and women have died and 10,000 have been wounded in Iraq. How long will Americans collaborate in their own destruction? .<br><br>The world's major intelligence services serve this banking elite. I suspect the Mossad and CIA are responsible for the unprecedented attack on the US Sept 11. The Mossad may be behind the terrorist attack in Spain last Thursday, exactly 911 days after Sept. 11.<br><br>Al Queda is probably controlled by the Mossad-CIA. People now call it "Al CIA-duh"<br><br>It is unacceptable that no one has been held responsible for allowing Sept. 11 to occur. George Bush should have resigned for this failure, if not treason.<br><br>The cabal has a modus operandi from which it never deviates.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> It sponsors both sides of every issue or war in order to grind the population down and control the outcome.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>In the "War on Terror" we will be crushed between the so-called "terrorists" and the forces of "homeland security". The result will be world dictatorship, which we will welcome as respite from the "terror".<br><br>Democracy is a sham. It is unacceptable that men who hold public office should belong to any secret society. Both Bush and Kerry belong to the Illuminati "Skull and Bones." They belong to the elite cabal that is behind the terror on Sept. 11. It is unlikely that Kerry who is pro-Israel and funded by Goldman Sachs, is against the Iraq war, "the War on Terror" and the cynically named "Patriot Act."<br><br>The United States has served as proxies for the Illuminist bankers long enough. Americans don't want their world dictatorship. It's time Americans stopped being patsies.<br><br>--------<br>See also Sweet Liberty.org (not a blanket endorsement)<br><br>Is the Conspiracy Jewish?" A Review of Douglas Reed's The Controversy of Zion<br><br>*** Henry Makow Ph.D. is the inventor of the board game Scruples and the author of "A Long Way to go for a Date." His articles on feminism and the new world order are stored on his web site www.savethemales.ca He enjoys receiving comments at henry@savethemales.ca [/quote]<br><br>So bama, if you please, do let us know the sources of the items in bold print. Credible please....not other unsourced rephrasings of same.<br><br>I will say that I looked for the full text of the Ben-Gurion quote. Unfortunately, when I feed it into Google, I just get reprints of this Makow article all over the white racist net. It's on stormfront and daviddukey.com, etc. So that will take a trip to the library. <br><br>I thought I'd include the full text of the Balfour declaration since that is one of the references. Here it is:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"His Majesty's government view with favor the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavors to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby Dreams End » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:06 pm

Eric, thanks for the fuller text.<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>He predicted that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>by 1987</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> "the Cold War will be a thing of the past" and there will be a "gradual democratization of the Soviet Union." Western and Eastern Europe will become a "federation of autonomous states." All "other continents will be united in a world alliance, at whose disposal will be an international police force. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>All armies will be abolished and there will be no more wars.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->"<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>I guess ben Gurion wasn't so prescient after all. I mean, it's 2005. so... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby israelirealities » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:11 pm

Another take at the Balfour declaration, something I actually like very much. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen/IPSC/articles/article0005337.html">student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/...05337.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>On the Anti-Semitism of the Present Government <br>I have chosen the above title for this memorandum, not in any hostile sense, not by any means as quarrelling with an anti-Semitic view which may be held by my colleagues, not with a desire to deny that anti-Semitism can be held by rational men, not even with a view to suggesting that the Government is deliberately anti-Semitic; but I wish to place on record my view that the policy of His Majesty's Government is anti-Semitic in result will prove a rallying ground for Anti-Semites in every country in the world.<br><br>This view is prompted by the receipt yesterday of a correspondence between Lord Rothschild and Mr. Balfour.<br><br>Lord Rothschild's letter is dated the 18th July and Mr. Balfour's answer is to be dated August 1917. I fear that my protest comes too late, and it may well be that the Government were practically committed when Lord Rothschild wrote and before I became a member of the Government, for there has obviously been some correspondence or conversation before this letter. But I do feel that as the one Jewish Minister in the Government I may be allowed by my colleagues an opportunity of expressing views which may be peculiar to myself, but which I hold very strongly and which I must ask permission to express when opportunity affords.<br><br>I believe most firmly that this war has been a death-blow to Internationalism, and that it has proved an opportunity for a renewal of the slackening sense of Nationality, for it is has not only been tacitly agreed by most statesmen in most countries that the redistribution of territory resulting from the war should be more or less on national grounds, but we have learned to realise that our country stands for principles, for aims, for civilisation which no other country stands for in the same degree, and that in the future, whatever may have been the case in the past, we must live and fight in peace and in war for those aims and aspirations, and so equip and regulate our lives and industries as to be ready whenever and if ever we are challenged. To take one instance, the science of Political Economy, which in its purity knows no Nationalism, will hereafter be tempered and viewed in the light of this national need of defence and security.The war has indeed justified patriotism as the prime motive of political thought.<br><br>It is in this atmosphere that the Government proposes to endorse the formation of a new nation with a new home in Palestine. This nation will presumably be formed of Jewish Russians, Jewish Englishmen, Jewish Roumanians, Jewish Bulgarians, and Jewish citizens of all nations - survivors or relations of those who have fought or laid down their lives for the different countries which I have mentioned, at a time when the three years that they have lived through have united their outlook and thought more closely than ever with the countries of which they are citizens.<br><br>Zionism has always seemed to me to be a mischievous political creed, untenable by any patriotic citizen of the United Kingdom. If a Jewish Englishman sets his eyes on the Mount of Olives and longs for the day when he will shake British soil from his shoes and go back to agricultural pursuits in Palestine, he has always seemed to me to have acknowledged aims inconsistent with British citizenship and to have admitted that he is unfit for a share in public life in Great Britain, or to be treated as an Englishman. I have always understood that those who indulged in this creed were largely animated by the restrictions upon and refusal of liberty to Jews in Russia. But at the very time when these Jews have been acknowledged as Jewish Russians and given all liberties, it seems to be inconceivable that Zionism should be officially recognised by the British Government, and that Mr. Balfour should be authorized to say that Palestine was to be reconstituted as the "national home of the Jewish people". I do not know what this involves, but I assume that it means that Mahommedans and Christians are to make way for the Jews and that the Jews should be put in all positions of preference and should be peculiarly associated with Palestine in the same way that England is with the English or France with the French, that Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine. Perhaps also citizenship must be granted only as a result of a religious test.<br><br>I lay down with emphasis four principles:<br><br><br>I assert that there is not a Jewish nation. The members of my family, for instance, who have been in this country for generations, have no sort or kind of community of view or of desire with any Jewish family in any other country beyond the fact that they profess to a greater or less degree the same religion. It is no more true to say that a Jewish Englishman and a Jewish Moor are of the same nation than it is to say that a Christian Englishman and a Christian Frenchman are of the same nation: of the same race, perhaps, traced back through the centuries - through centuries of the history of a peculiarly adaptable race. The Prime Minister and M. Briand are, I suppose, related through the ages, one as a Welshman and the other as a Breton, but they certainly do not belong to the same nation.<br><br><br>When the Jews are told that Palestine is their national home, every country will immediately desire to get rid of its Jewish citizens, and you will find a population in Palestine driving out its present inhabitants, taking all the best in the country, drawn from all quarters of the globe, speaking every language on the face of the earth, and incapable of communicating with one another except by means of an interpreter. I have always understood that this was the consequence of the building of the Tower of Babel, if ever it was built, and I certainly do not dissent from the view, commonly held, as I have always understood, by the Jews before Zionism was invented, that to bring the Jews back to form a nation in the country from which they were dispersed would require Divine leadership. I have never heard it suggested, even by their most fervent admirers, that either Mr. Balfour or Lord Rothschild would prove to be the Messiah.<br><br>I claim that the lives that British Jews have led, that the aims that they have had before them, that the part that they have played in our public life and our public institutions, have entitled them to be regarded, not as British Jews, but as Jewish Britons. I would willingly disfranchise every Zionist. I would be almost tempted to proscribe the Zionist organisation as illegal and against the national interest. But I would ask of a British Government sufficient tolerance to refuse a conclusion which makes aliens and foreigners by implication, if not at once by law, of all their Jewish fellow-citizens.<br><br><br>I deny that Palestine is to-day associated with the Jews or properly to be regarded as a fit place for them to live in. The Ten Commandments were delivered to the Jews on Sinai. It is quite true that Palestine plays a large part in Jewish history, but so it does in modern Mahommendan history, and, after the time of the Jews, surely it plays a larger part than any other country in Christian history. The Temple may have been in Palestine, but so was the Sermon on the Mount and the Crucifixion. I would not deny to Jews in Palestine equal rights to colonisation with those who profess other religions, but a religious test of citizenship seems to me to be the only admitted by those who take a bigoted and narrow view of one particular epoch of the history of Palestine, and claim for the Jews a position to which they are not entitled.<br><br>If my memory serves me right, there are three times as many Jews in the world as could possible get into Palestine if you drove out all the population that remains there now. So that only one-third will get back at the most, and what will happen to the remainder?<br><br><br>I can easily understand the editors of the Morning Post and of the New Witness being Zionists, and I am not in the least surprised that the non-Jews of England may welcome this policy. I have always recognised the unpopularity, much greater than some people think, of my community. We have obtained a far greater share of this country's goods and opportunities than we are numerically entitled to. We reach on the whole maturity earlier, and therefore with people of our own age we compete unfairly. Many of us have been exclusive in our friendships and intolerant in our attitude, and I can easily understand that many a non-Jew in England wants to get rid of us. But just as there is no community of thought and mode of life among Christian Englishmen, so there is not among Jewish Englishmen. More and more we are educated in public schools and at the Universities, and take our part in the politics, in the Army, in the Civil Service, of our country. And I am glad to think that the prejudices against inter-marriage are breaking down. But when the Jew has a national home, surely it follows that the impetus to deprive us of the rights of British citizenship must be enormously increased. Palestine will become the world's Ghetto. Why should the Russian give the Jew equal rights? His national home is Palestine. Why does Lord Rothschild attach so much importance to the difference between British and foreign Jews? All Jews will be foreign Jews, inhabitants of the great country of Palestine.<br><br>I do not know how the fortunate third will be chosen, but the Jew will have the choice, whatever country he belongs to, whatever country he loves, whatever country he regards himself as an integral part of, between going to live with people who are foreigners to him, but to whom his Christian fellow-countrymen have told him he shall belong, and of remaining as an unwelcome guest in the country that he thought he belonged to.<br><br>I am not surprised that the Government should take this step after the formation of a Jewish Regiment, and I am waiting to learn that my brother, who has been wounded in the Naval Division, or my nephew, who is in the Grenadier Guards, will be forced by public opinion or by Army regulations to become an officer in a regiment which will mainly be composed of people who will not understand the only language which he speaks - English. I can well understand that when it was decided, and quite rightly, to force foreign Jews in this country to serve in the Army, it was difficult to put them in British regiments because of the language difficulty, but that was because they were foreigners, and not because they were Jews, and a Foreign Legion would seem to me to have been the right thing to establish. A Jewish Legion makes the position of Jews in other regiments more difficult and forces a nationality upon people who have nothing in common.<br><br>I feel that the Government are asked to be the instrument for carrying out the wishes of a Zionist organisation largely run, as my information goes, at any rate in the past, by men of enemy descent or birth, and by this means have dealt a severe blow to the liberties, position and opportunities of service of their Jewish fellow-countrymen.<br><br>I would say to Lord Rothschild that the Government will be prepared to do everything in their power to obtain for Jews in Palestine complete liberty of settlement and life on an equality with the inhabitants of that country who profess other religious beliefs. I would ask that the Government should go no further.<br><br>E.S.M.<br><br>23 August 1917<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=israelirealities@rigorousintuition>israelirealities</A> at: 11/7/05 3:14 pm<br></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby israelirealities » Mon Nov 07, 2005 6:42 pm

Thanks for Makow masterpiece, somehow I could actually guess this is what he writes, or apx this. I cannot bring myself to actually address his assertions, the whole composition is unedible for me. Sorry for not being of help there. I hope the historical and eloquent explanation by a Jew and a member of her majesty's government, from that period of time sheds light on the other kind of opposition to the Balfour declaration. Let Montagu speak.<br><br>The Makow and indymedia articles...well, I can only say this is not my style or cup of tea. But there are plenty similar bizare pieces floating in the cyberspace regarding Bush, Clinton, GOd and Hitler...I don't see why Jews or the ISraeli high court of justice should not be included, lest someon may complain that entisemites, again, deprive us of equal silly treatment as they grant the rest of this planet.<br><br>One point in the Indymedia article deserves to pulled out and treated on the merits and very seriously. The case of the 1950 radiation of the Morroccon immigrants, by US military-medical experiments, supposedly for "ring worm"..this is a sad and true case, that recently reached all the way to our parliament (resulting in a special compensation law, for the victims of said x-ray nuking) and is still and open wound. This being lumped up together with masonic crap symbolism annoys me, and it might lead to some paranoid thoughts as to the sources of this article...<br><br>Last but not least. Rothchild. In my wildest dreams I did not think he occupied so much space in the internet. And I can only guess this has to do with him being a nobility, banker, rich European Jew blah blah, and also that he was the UK's ally in creating Israel, eventually. SOrry to disappoint all the parties here, he is not a major figure here, in Zionist history. He backed up land purchases in early ZIonist settlement and brokered the idea with European politicians of that time. There is a nice wide boulevard in Tel Aviv bearing his name, but King george, general Allenby etc., are also major streets here. I am sure he wasn't a saint, being so rich and all, and probably the rich american Jews who are now financing Israel will join him, as streets = here, and as lizards for the antisemites, and as people who forced their vision on the multitudes, being so rich and all.etc.<br>What is the point in this ? <br><br>I would rather deal with the present. Israel is a fact, so Rothchild plot/plan succeeded anyway. Time to move on. Is this family still so rich and influencial ? they are not prominent here for as long as I am alive except a nice Foundation for education, not huge, but at least its not for military goals. There are other "capitalist plotters" now, most of whom come from the USA. <br><br>-------------<br><br>I am too tired today for high politics. had a rough day here.<br>An anecdote from our press today - major Kabbalist In Jerusalem prophecized that tomorrow starts the annihilation of Israel (his take, Iran will bomb Dimona nuclear facility), unless people repent. So, I have about 2 hourse to repent, and I think writing here is not within the rules...<br><br>--------<br><br>Other than that, I started googling for a job in Europe, seriously now. <br><br>Eric, if you are disturbed about the Gaza booms or anything, simply email/fax the Israeli government and protest. If you are s<!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline">incerely</span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END--> interested I will take the time and paste the email/fax addressed of Prime Minister Sharon, Minister of Defense Mofaz, etc., the Knesset Public Relation etc. Any pressure, coming from outside is better than the deafening silence. They don't read this board, I imagine, but lots of faxes and even emails...might do the job. It will also provide moral and mental support for the victims. <br><br>I doubt ROthchild is on their list though, but if you know where to find him, email him as well. Tell him you know one Israeli lady who needs some money urgently, a visa and the whole nine yards, and I'll give you my bank account number for donations. Who knows, it might work. I thought that you probably envision all the Jews working together on some grand plot for Rothchild and BG...well, let me tell you, so many people here hate their guts. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:03 pm

" guess ben Gurion wasn't so prescient after all. I mean, it's 2005. so... "<br><br>It took a little longer than he thought. Perhaps the 1973 Arab Israeli war was meant to start WWIII, who knows ? New World Orders are expensive and difficult to arrange.<br><br>I am comvinced what he says is right from a completely different standpoint. The NWO is basically a world government for a lot of people, this is it. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=eric144>eric144</A> at: 11/7/05 4:07 pm<br></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby eric144 » Mon Nov 07, 2005 7:16 pm

IR<br><br>I was only commenting on that section of the article. I'm not blaming anyone for anything ,not even Mr Sharon. My view for what it's worth is that a disarmed world is the only kind in which Jews could live safely in Palestine. Game, set and match to (whoever).<br><br>I'm not being anti - Jew, as you say the Rothschilds are hated in Israel. <p></p><i></i>
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Ok NOW I'm going to step out of this

Postby bamabecky » Mon Nov 07, 2005 11:10 pm

I sent you to Indymedia to look at the <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>PICTURES</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->. I made <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>NO CLAIM WHATSOEVER THAT THE WRITTEN MATERIAL WAS TRUTH</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->!<!--EZCODE EMOTICON START >: --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/mad.gif ALT=">:"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Sheesh you guys like to jump on folks! I was directed to look at the pictures. I have not read the material, just not enough hours in the day! However now that I think it's truth <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> perhaps I will find time to go read it. <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br>And isn't it funny that the comments have not been about the <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>PICTURES</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->. The structures pictured to me obviously are of <!--EZCODE UNDERLINE START--><span style="text-decoration:underline"><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Masonic symbols</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></span><!--EZCODE UNDERLINE END-->. Again I ask what in the Sam Hill do those structures have to do with Judism????????????<br><br>I wrote my post THREE times, two other posts were eaten by the "computer dragon" here??????????????? So by the third time - I couldn't remember word for word my original post.<br><br>In one of those post, I wrote asking for a summary of Makow, because I don't know anything about him. I know even less than that about WWI. Another sentence that was lost in the "computer feed" was that I fell like a student here, learning at most of your feet. Thank You!<br><br>That said, I believe that the Protocals of Zion are for real. I have been influenced by Robert Gaylon Ross and Meria Heller. It seems to me that a vast amount of powerful energy has gone into the effort to say that the protocals are not real. At this moment in time, I believe that they are real. I'll repeat I do not use the word Zionism. I use the term Freemasonry Brotherhood Elite. That way I feel that I'm not harming any genuinely Jewish people. The Freemasonary Brotherhood Elite are decidely not Jewish. They are, for lack of a better term here, - Satanist - at least they PRACTICE rituals similar to Satanists. Forgive my spelling, don't dare try spell check or preview again - would want to have to re-write this again!<br><br>Bama <p>Be the Media! Write a personal essay to your friends and family, telling them what's going on and tell them how and where to find more info.</p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby israelirealities » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:07 am

I didn't get any response to Lord Montagu, so I am re posting with highlights on important sections. <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/...05337.html<br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>On the Anti-Semitism of the Present Government</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> <br>I have chosen the above title for this memorandum, not in any hostile sense, not by any means as quarrelling with an anti-Semitic view which may be held by my colleagues, not with a desire to deny that anti-Semitism can be held by rational men, not even with a view to suggesting that the Government is deliberately anti-Semitic; but I wish to place on record my view that the policy of His Majesty's Government is anti-Semitic in result will prove a rallying ground for Anti-Semites in every country in the world.<br><br> <br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Zionism has always seemed to me to be a mischievous political creed,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> untenable by any patriotic citizen of the United Kingdom. If a Jewish Englishman sets his eyes on the Mount of Olives and longs for the day when he will shake British soil from his shoes and go back to agricultural pursuits in Palestine, he has always seemed to me to have acknowledged aims inconsistent with British citizenship and to have admitted that he is unfit for a share in public life in Great Britain, or to be treated as an Englishman. I have always understood that those who indulged in this creed were largely animated by the restrictions upon and refusal of liberty to Jews in Russia. But at the very time when these Jews have been acknowledged as Jewish Russians and given all liberties, it seems to be inconceivable that Zionism should be officially recognised by the British Government, and that Mr. Balfour should be authorized to say that Palestine was to be reconstituted as the "national home of the Jewish people". I do not know what this involves, but I <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>assume that it means that Mahommedans and Christians are to make way for the Jews and that the Jews should be put in all positions of preference and should be peculiarly</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> associated with Palestine in the same way that England is with the English or France with the French, that Turks and other Mahommedans in Palestine will be regarded as foreigners, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>just in the same way as Jews will hereafter be treated as foreigners in every country but Palestine. Perhaps also citizenship must be granted only as a result of a religious test.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>I lay down with emphasis four principles:<br><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> <br>When the Jews are told that Palestine is their national home, every country will immediately desire to get rid of its Jewish citizens, and you will find a population in Palestine driving out its present inhabitants, taking all the best in the country, drawn from all quarters of the globe</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, speaking every language on the face of the earth, and incapable of communicating with one another except by means of an interpreter. I have always understood that this was the consequence of the building of the Tower of Babel, if ever it was built, and I certainly do not dissent from the view, commonly held, as I have always understood, by the Jews before Zionism was invented, that to bring the Jews back to form a nation in the country from which they were dispersed would require Divine leadership. I have never heard it suggested, even by their most fervent admirers, that either Mr. Balfour or Lord Rothschild would prove to be the Messiah.<br><br>I claim that the lives that British Jews have led, that the aims that they have had before them, that the part that they have played in our public life and our public institutions, have entitled them to be regarded, not as British Jews, but as Jewish Britons.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> I would willingly disfranchise every Zionist</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. I would be almost tempted to proscribe the Zionist organisation as illegal and against the national interest. But I would ask of a British Government sufficient tolerance to refuse a conclusion which makes aliens and foreigners by implication, if not at once by law, of all their Jewish fellow-citizens.<br><br><br>I deny that Palestine is to-day associated with the Jews or properly to be regarded as a fit place for them to live in. The Ten Commandments were delivered to the Jews on Sinai. It is quite true that Palestine plays a large part in Jewish history, but so it does in modern Mahommendan history, and, after the time of the Jews, surely it plays a larger part than any other country in Christian history. The Temple may have been in Palestine, but so was the Sermon on the Mount and the Crucifixion. I would not deny to Jews in Palestine equal rights to colonisation with those who profess other religions, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>but a religious test of citizenship seems to me to be the only admitted by those who take a bigoted and narrow view of one particular epoch of the history of Palestine, and claim for the Jews a position to which they are not entitled</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->.<br><br>If my memory serves me right, there are three times as many Jews in the world as could possible get into Palestine if you drove out all the population that remains there now. So that only one-third will get back at the most, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>and what will happen to the remainder?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>I can easily understand the editors of the Morning Post and of the New Witness being Zionists, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>and I am not in the least surprised that the non-Jews of England may welcome this policy. I have always recognised the unpopularity, much greater than some people think, of my community</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. We have obtained a far greater share of this country's goods and opportunities than we are numerically entitled to. snip<br><br> But just as there is no community of thought and mode of life among Christian Englishmen, so there is not among Jewish Englishmen. More and more we are educated in public schools and at the Universities, and take our part in the politics, in the Army, in the Civil Service, of our country. And I am glad to think that the<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> prejudices against inter-marriage are breaking down. But when the Jew has a national home, surely it follows that the impetus to deprive us of the rights of British citizenship must be enormously increased. Palestine will become the world's Ghetto. Why should the Russian give the Jew equal rights? His national home is Palestine</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. Why does Lord Rothschild attach so much importance to the difference between British and foreign Jews? All Jews will be foreign Jews, inhabitants of the great country of Palestine.<br><br>I do not know how the fortunate third will be chosen, but the Jew will have the choice, whatever country he belongs to, whatever country he loves, whatever country he regards himself as an integral part of, between going to live with people who are foreigners to him,<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong> but to whom his Christian fellow-countrymen have told him he shall belong, and of remaining as an unwelcome guest in the country that he thought he belonged to.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><br>snip <br><br>I feel that the Government are asked to be the instrument for carrying out the wishes of a Zionist organisation largely run, as my information goes, at any rate in the past, by men of enemy descent or birth, and by this means have dealt a severe blow to the liberties, position and opportunities of service of their Jewish fellow-countrymen.<br><br>I would say to Lord Rothschild that the Government will be prepared to do everything in their power to obtain for Jews in Palestine complete liberty of settlement and life on an equality with the inhabitants of that country who profess other religious beliefs. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>I would ask that the Government should go no further.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>E.S.M.<br><br>23 August 1917<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: I think I'll step into this

Postby Dreams End » Tue Nov 08, 2005 3:50 am

IR...are you saying that because this kabbalist is predicting the end you believe him? We get a lot of end time predictions around here. I wouldn't panic yet.<br><br>I really don't know much about the early history of zionism and will be happy to learn more. The fact that the Jews are so often met with opposition and repression in so many countries suggests that I might have taken up the zionist cause myself...though the practicalities of it would seem daunting, especially since wherever you go, there are people already there.<br><br>However, when you see someone like Bama complaining that I posted the text of an article she herself linked to (I guess we were supposed to know not to read it), then you see that rationality doesn't rule this roost. Anyway, bama, you wanted a summary of Makow. There it is.<br><br>But IR, you are truly spoiling the party, though, by showing that Jews do not think as one, monolithic group. So much for the worldwide conspiracy. <br><br>Two, your dissing of Rothschild shows you are clearly covering for him, for he is the head of the Luciferian illuminati and if you don't agree with that, you must be one of them. (IR, because English is not your first language, I will assure that this last paragraph is satire.)<br><br>Truly, if it isn't clear let me say that, while you seem to think my calling out the anti-Semites impedes your posting, really it is they who clutter these types of posts. You want honest discussion of Israeli politics and you get pictures of vulvic staircases. And Makow articles. <br><br>But I still remain in the wings on this one. I'm hoping from you for some basic ideas of what a reform movement in Israel might look like. Who are the "good guys" in your estimation. Should Israel simply cease to exist? You rarely state what it is you are against except in the vaguest terms. <br><br>By the way, looking at this little bit of early Zionist history and the thing I'm most struck by is the whole colonialist idea that England could 'grant' Palestine or Arab lands to ANYONE. It's just written so matter of factly, and yet it is exactly that sort of arbitrary gamesmanship with entire countries and even continents that is behind so much of the problems of the world. I wonder, for example, how many of the rioting youths in France came from African countries which are FRENCH speaking, for example, with the obvious understanding of why those countries speak french.<br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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