The 2012 "Election" thread

[justdrew]

game theory would show you THAT a "voting strike" is not going to happen, some part of some group will realize they can easily win and then vote and win.

whats more, we have no "moral obligation" to vote in a way "true to ourselves" and only for our own interests. We'd have to have 300million candidates, each one voting for themselves. Rather the goal is to find others we can agree to disagree with on some things, and compromise with and get something done, rather than nothing. but yeah, this is a big debate that could range widely over a 700 page book.

Do you think everything would be great if we just had more political parties? No parties? It would be chaos and no one would ever win even close to a majority. I used to think a parliamentary system like in Britain would be better, but look how useless that is too, the Liberal Democrats have accomplished what exactly? No, in the end ANY kind of contest for power in human societies comes down to TWO SIDES.

Third parties would be far more effective is they were simply "political action groups" and they sent lobbyists to pester and demand from the elected and work the PRIMARIES hard to get their own candidates in. Can anyone think of a recent example of that working quite well? Here in America? (clue: it rhymes with bee farty)

elections are only a small part of the whole picture, but a useful handle that could over time improve things.

[Wombaticus Rex]

^^I dig that, voting strike is a good clarifier.

[8bitagent]

I was half asleep I guess when the VP announcement came. Almost thought the news on the radio said Rand Paul was Romney's choice, not Paul Ryan. Wouldnt have surprised me.

I've already noticed a few "friends" lost on facebook due to my anti Obama/Romney picture memes

I want to see politically aware people take off the kid gloves and be merciless toward colleagues/college kids/co-workers/online demographics in their great displeasure with
not just Mittler Robot or Obama bush-Laden, but the entire goddamn rotten system. I hope voter turn out and apathy is very very low. "Rock the Vote 1992" MTV?
I want to see Snooze the Vote.

Nooone/Noone 12'!

[8bitagent]

And, with its disproportionate prevalence on the American Left, this voting pattern now threatens to cost Barack Obama a second term. Some on the Left feel no compunction about aiding in Obama’s defeat even if it means installing Mitt Romney, an unabashed one-percenter in the White House.

I deeply, deeply want to see Obama lose just to rub it in all the smarmy fake liberal college kid faces. I seem to get along more with "Christian Conservatives" than I do "radical queer feminist anarcho vegan Portland pan-poly" and Whole Foods prius yuppies, even tho I consider myself fringe left and almost militantly in support of progressive ideals. I just don't like people's close minded attitudes, which seems to come the more people think they're bucking the system.

Seeing Cornell West on Al Jazeera the other day absolutely demolish the myth of Obama was, dare I say orgasmic
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... 70473.html

[justdrew]

And, with its disproportionate prevalence on the American Left, this voting pattern now threatens to cost Barack Obama a second term. Some on the Left feel no compunction about aiding in Obama’s defeat even if it means installing Mitt Romney, an unabashed one-percenter in the White House.

I deeply, deeply want to see Obama lose just to rub it in all the smarmy fake liberal college kid faces. I seem to get along more with "Christian Conservatives" than I do "radical queer feminist anarcho vegan Portland pan-poly" and Whole Foods prius yuppies, even tho I consider myself fringe left and almost militantly in support of progressive ideals. I just don't like people's close minded attitudes, which seems to come the more people think they're bucking the system.

Seeing Cornell West on Al Jazeera the other day absolutely demolish the myth of Obama was, dare I say orgasmic
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... 70473.html

yeah, all THOSE PEOPLE are just a bunch of phoneys huh?

[Joe Hillshoist]

Romney would pay less than 1% in taxes under Ryan plan.

So thats probably the only good reason I've actually seen to vote for Obama.

Although the cynical part of me is wondering if that is actually an increase for Romney's tax bill.

[lupercal]

Seeing Cornell West on Al Jazeera the other day absolutely demolish the myth of Obama was, dare I say orgasmic
http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/ins ... 70473.html

If two white spooks and a senile token ripping into Obama gets you off you should consider joining the bee farty, no surprise there. But wait, Paul "Black Agenda Report Obama-hater-in-chief" Street is a mini-me Buckley in a short-sleeve shirt and pocket protector? Now that IS a surprise. I always figured he was a tool but I never thought he was a cracker!

Is Barack Obama a Fit Role Model for Black Youth? | Wed, 03/14/2012 - 01:07 — Paul Street

Whose Black President? | Wed, 08/03/2011 - 05:13 — Paul Street

Note to “the Left”: Obama Hates You | Wed, 12/01/2010 - 01:47 — Paul Street

Is Barack Obama Bad for Racial Justice? | Wed, 10/06/2010 - 12:32 — Paul Street

Killer Obama, Dr. King, and the Triple Evils | Tue, 01/12/2010 - 23:27 — Paul Street

and my personal favorite:

Reflections on the Vapid Obama Commentary of Professor Angela Davis | Wed, 10/27/2010 - 07:30 — Paul Street

http://blackagendareport.com/?q=blog/213

I remember good old chlambake madly posting Paul Street BAR links like they were holy writ back when he was trying to prove Chomsky was right about JFK.. poor dumb deluded chlamor

[8bitagent]

RI, make up your mind...opposing Obama=bigoted. Supporting Obama=loving to blow up villages with drones.

Also what is racist about Paul Street's articles? I'll take his and West's version of anti Obama than gun nut Alex Jones, Glenn Beck or Michael Savage.

[lupercal]

^ false choices, shallow thinking. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of on MSNBC. But you've had it explained to you many times here and if it hasn't sunk in I don't imagine it will, and since it doesn't matter who you vote for in California, at least nationally, I won't bother explaining it again. Here's a tip: read your sample ballot next time it arrives, and if it doesn't, register to vote and it will. It's free!

[82_28]

I don't think RI should make up it's mind and probably couldn't to an exacting degree even if something like that were possible. It is fairly certain that the denizens here hate basically all things US policy, foreign and domestic, hate corruption and live with ideals we don't see in the lives we personally live. Some of us live within it and are sick of it and basically don't even give a shit about what is politically displayed before us anymore. Doesn't mean I existentially don't care, just means I am done and just have given up to the fact that this is a well designed dystopia and I got to see it really come into fruition in my lifetime. I don't really need to give them, at least one more positive moment of my time. Best to ignore or just hate it AND understand why I (we) do hate it and/or ignore it. We mean no harm, Jesus H Christ.

But with such limited means, there just is nothing we can do but be the intuitively stewing middle of the melting pot that possibly makes a surprise appearance once the center no longer holds in this fucked up and bullshit system. Keep up the spirit of what we would like to see and invariably never do harm to other souls. Just maybe it will turn out one day. I am an optimistic pessimist, I guess. We simply need to get people's better sides moving again. Keep compassion alive.

[82_28]

^ false choices, shallow thinking. There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of on MSNBC. But you've had it explained to you many times here and if it hasn't sunk in I don't imagine it will, and since it doesn't matter who you vote for in California, at least nationally, I won't bother explaining it again. Here's a tip: read your sample ballot next time it arrives, and if it doesn't, register to vote and it will. It's free!

I've said it a trillion times these past four years.

The reason I don't vote anymore and stopped voting in 2008 is because I resented that my arguments for Obama being a wolf in sheep's clothing were indistinguishable from a racist hoo-ha. I got fucking sick of explaining that "No, no, no! You don't just get rid of a figure like dubya and get the first black president elected is something is not deeply wrong and misleading about what is happening!"

Oh, how could you not enjoy seeing Oprah and Denzell Washington and Spike Lee all crying on election night? As a culture and society, we'd finally came of age!!!! Finally Malcolm X and MLK and Harriet Tubman and and and, were finally vindicated by the great loving liberal counterculture of yesteryear coming full circle with the departure of the "divisive" GWB who was all part of Central Casting anyway. The deaths, thievery and debauchery continued apace with the election of Obama.

Um, no. This ain't a pissing match and there's nothing to brag about here. But I saw right through it and, as I said, I was accused of racism. Once I realized this, I said peace out trout to all politics -- as in "taking part". I poison myself in enough ways to give a fuck about trying to explain why I'm not racist to fellow leftists for the rest of my life for calling the election of Obama many steps back for racial or any kind of class and gender equality.

[lupercal]

^ crap I just lost a huge post but anyway the point is, I'm not bagging on 8bit for not voting, just for posting random dumb-ass tea party bbc-jazeera trash propaganda. The rest of the sermon will have to wait so you're off the hook

[lupercal]

Okay here's the more-or-less reconstructed sermon on why you should vote anyway, minus the personal examples which probably weren't such a good idea. I will confess however that I didn't vote for Obama in 08, won't in November, and you shouldn't feel obliged to either, assuming you're voting in WA:

1 - I respect not voting as a principled decision not to participate in a corrupt system but I disagree that it accomplishes anything except to disenfranchise you, because:

2 - Every counted vote really and truly does make a difference, an increasingly small one as you scale up, true , so by the time you get to the big races like prez and senate it makes little or no difference in ta blue state like CA or WA. However,

3 - It makes a difference in swing states, assuming it's counted,* also in many blue state senate races and ballot measures, and particularly,

4 - in third-party races, like McKinney's and many others, because: All parties have to get a certain percentage of votes to retain their ballot status and avoid having to repeat the arduous qualification process, which requires beaucoup signatures and/or hefty fees, the next election. If a 3rd party fails to make its quota it's often the end of the line for that party in that state, so that's one place your vote REALLY counts, in all races.

5 - It also really counts in most state and all local races and measures. Oh the stories I could tell. Suffice it to say that two or three hundred votes can make the difference in electing an asshole to your city council, who can make a difference in whether your city provides decent services and pays its employees or pulls a Schwarzenegger and declares bankruptcy to ditch its pension liabilities, meaning massive layoffs for all except of course for cops. This from experience.

Sometimes it counts so much a candidate will call you repeatedly on the phone, come to your house, ask to put signs on your lawn and so on. This too from experience. If you like them, you can help out, or at least vote for them; if they're trouble, you get your chance to politely express it. Of course the proof is in the pudding and I've seen it go both ways, meaning sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but at least you make your contribution to the final count which becomes permanent record.

* Now as for vote-rigging: a huge problem sure but in some ways that too comes down to voting, statewide and locally, because the watchdogs have to be in office in the first place to monitor elections, get rid of the machines etc.

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p.s. since installing a backlog of annoying microshaft updates I've been having trouble posting, hmm...

[Belligerent Savant]

.

I'm willing to grant the potential for some degree of 'difference-making' when voting at the state [or lower] levels.

The weight/potential for 'difference-making' in any given vote increases as we move from the State level all the way down to our local school's election for class president [and even your friendly neighborhood's class president election has the potential for rigging; indeed, perhaps someone reading this very post is a former class president due in part to rigged votes].

But focusing for the moment on NATIONAL elections -- I simply don't see the value in voting, as I've stated numerous times in prior threads, for a variety of reasons enumerated by myself and others over the lifecycle of this forum.

Outside of any lofty ideals, daydreams, or flights of delusional fancy, I'm of the opinion that our current system can not in any way be remedied and/or altered for the benefit of the majority via the vote.

The system will continue to function as it has for quite some time -- to the benefit of the very few, to the detriment of the majority.

Should there be some form of revolution or overthrow of the current system within our lifetimes, it will simply be replaced by another system that will soon be similarly corrupted [presuming of course that the 'revolution' itself was a genuine/authentic movement and not simply another stage-show to begin with].

Perhaps an eletromagnetic pulse may alter our fates. Or perhaps the human race will somehow evolve, suddenly and collectively, beyond our current semi-primitive ways.

Until then, do what you can to enjoy your time here while you still have valuable time to enjoy. By all means, continue in whatever endeavors you feel may affect some measure of change -- if not far-reaching change, then at least some measure of localized change. With any luck, that localized change may spark a chain reaction and span across coasts and..... ah, there I go dreaming again. Silly human mind.

God speed.

[Luther Blissett]

There's no way I'm voting in favor of corporate interests and murder. I'm going to go with my conscience and vote with what we arrived at with my "write-in candidate poll" thread a few months back. I will be writing in Cornel West as a vote of NO confidence and encouraging everyone I talk to do the same. I'd been considering Rocky Anderson, and then Jill Stein, but the idea isn't to funnel votes to campaigning politicians, and especially not to "green jobs." The idea is to send a philosophical message.