The 2012 "Election" thread

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Rory » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:41 pm

[quote="psynapz"][/quote]

Just to say I am in broad agreement with what you say. This is about availing of the chances that we can, in the broader social sphere. Love your writing, man :lovehearts:

As for the 'Obama is worse than Bush', thought. LOL WUT?!

I have to tip my hat with respect to the marketing team that birthed and spread this venomous, personalized hatred of Obama: To even the extent that some people think he's worse than Bush. That is viral marketing at it's finest. All credit due to the sociopaths that effected elements of the left and the most of the right to despise him on terms from where they will say anything to justify the programed emotional response that comes from without - you just know you hate him, don't fully understand why, and are prepared to fabricate justifications to rationalize the dissonance you feel. Well, you hate him because you have been made to - just like those rednecks that have been told he's a Kenyan, Communist, Muslim.

He. Is. Just. Another. Cog.

As is Romney, but with the endorsement of the American people to repeal environmental and social protections. (We prefer to let the individual states make their own laws in that respect).
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:08 pm

Rory wrote:you just know you hate him, don't fully understand why


Oh yes I do.

Meanwhile, please explain to us why you fully understand why you know you don't hate him. It might come in handy.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Rory » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:27 pm

What do you hate, and why?

Is it the seat of office: Does it imbue the holder as the object of hate because of what will be done?

Interchange the actor and would the actions be different, those things that anger.

Is it the man, himself: What about him has he done, in the context of him not being the only one to hold office, and with a nod to the relative world paradigm around them.

At this stage, steady pragmatism is the sensible course. If there is something you think he has done worse than, relative to the historical actions of, previous admins, then you should rightly be appalled, if that is your thing. Romney promises that the state legislators will be given much more of a say in their internal running. The poor people of the south east states will be mourning Obama's loss, should it be so. The marketing genius is that they will actively vote in favor of this course of action.

Hating Obama so much is clouding people's judgement. You will hate the next guy too.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Nordic » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:01 am

So Rory. You're suggesting I have no capacity to think for myself and am just being conditioned in some sort of Pavlovian way ..... By whom exactly? Ted Rall? Cindy Sheehan? Who the FUCK do you think is brainwashing poor stupid little old me?

Pray tell.

Your ignorant-ass assumption is about as insulting as anything anyone has ever thrown my way. But I'm really curious as to who you think is behind thiS devious plot to virally market my hatred of Obama into my pliant brain.

So do go on.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:35 am

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/20 ... ocess?lite

Recount? Tie? How to navigate the post-electoral process
By Tom Curry, NBC News national affairs writer

By nearly every indication, the 2012 presidential election is heading toward a photo-finish both in the national popular vote and in the state-by-state Electoral College battle that will ultimately decide the winner.


And so the narrative has begun.

"Chuck, please, can we try and make sense of this? How in the world could this have happened" *extra frothy spittle than usual* - Chris Matthews, November 6th 2012

So will it be Ohio or Colorado where the dirty shenanigans are afoot?
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby 8bitagent » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:41 am

Nordic wrote:So Rory. You're suggesting I have no capacity to think for myself and am just being conditioned in some sort of Pavlovian way ..... By whom exactly? Ted Rall? Cindy Sheehan? Who the FUCK do you think is brainwashing poor stupid little old me?

Pray tell.

Your ignorant-ass assumption is about as insulting as anything anyone has ever thrown my way. But I'm really curious as to who you think is behind thiS devious plot to virally market my hatred of Obama into my pliant brain.

So do go on.


I've come to terms and peace with the notion that fellow leftists are going to understandably be a little more uppity this go around than in 2008. The stakes weren't so high, and the naivety was palpable.
Im trying to see it from their point of view. And Ive come to realize a lot of people voting for Obama aren't as blind as I was thinking. I had an interesting exchange with some people I know on facebook recently, where they fully acknowledged all the injustice, horror and Bush-esque stuff he personally has done or let happen. But they pointed out the scorched earth insanity a Romney presidency will hold. That it may even make the Bush era look tame.
I said I couldnt disagree, but that on principle I couldnt vote for Obama. That I believe it's rigged anyways. And that I still don't like the feeling of being pressured into voting for someone.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:49 am

ninakat wrote:I'm aware that Paul Craig Roberts isn't a favorite in these parts, but he sure makes a lot of valid points in this essay.

In America There will Never be a Real Debate
Voting for Obliteration
by PAUL CRAIG ROBERTS
October 25, 2012

God help them if Obama and Romney ever had to participate in a real debate about a real issue at the Oxford Union. They would be massacred.

<snip>



Actually, I am a fan, but I have some disagreement with his approach in this piece. First, he overlooks my biggest fear or complaint at this point in time, which is our complete inability to organize. They (the ones who are trying to maintain the status quo) are using pretty advanced counterinsurgency techniques against us (the ones who are trying to change things). They will not stop, they don’t even know why they should.

Second, he offers no real strategy for change, which is very frustrating at this point. For me, my darkest days came during the shame and horror of the Katrina aftermath. I constantly worried about how we would survive. The media was no help, the courts were no help, the ballot box wasn't working, there was no other outside entity that we could turn to for help, and all the while they were tightening their iron grip over the entire world which was rapidly turning against us because they shared the same fear that I had. I think I actually gave up when the loose nukes incident happened. That was when I first considered that the cost/benefit analysis had finally swung in favor of profits to be realized from nuking us all, and having been walked back by the Joint Chiefs from a first-strike, they had initiated an alternative exercise outside the legal chain of command.

This is going to sound too corny to be believable, but I'm going to say it anyhow. I was pretty much at the end of my tether, had become resigned to an impossible dilemma with no way out of the box we were in, and then I ended up watching the Barack Obama speech from Berlin, Germany, and it gave me hope. It sounds stupid, but that's my truth. It was as if there might possibly be a way to start slowing things down after all, which up until that moment, I thought was completely impossible. If nothing else, this could buy more time to find better solutions.

And this is the way I see it. Obama has bought us time. Time that we would not have had if anyone else had been elected. That’s my reality. We should use this time wisely.


All of the greivances in the Paul Craig Roberts piece are about injustices. These can include bad guys that have gone unpunished, as well as ongoing crimes. As a country, we have progressed from an economy based on manufacturing to an economy based on fraud. This is not hyperbole; it is a fact. (I often wonder if Obama is aware of this. He speaks about the banks having paid back the bailout, with interest, but does he realize that we gave them trillions in dollars and they gave us back trillions in worthless credit default swaps? Does it even matter at this point?)

In any event, let’s assume that we want to find a way to bring the war criminals to justice. This is something that only we can do ourselves. If the ICC could really be effective, they would have already acted, wouldn’t they? So how would we do it? Any successful convictions would be overturned by the Robert’s court. Maybe when Sandra Day O’connor was still on the bench it could have been attempted, but not now. And think about it, once the Supreme Court did overturn the convictions, which I’m positive they would, we would be much worse off than we are now, without such a ruling. Another step backward, not forward.

The best way forward is to impeach Scalia. He had a sleepover with a defendant in a case that was before him and he refused to recuse himself when asked to do so by the press. Instead, he wrote a 21-page fuck-you memo explaining why he is above the law.

I have become convinced that this is the best path because it should be winable, but even if we lose it’s a good fight. A fight for hearts and minds. “Should a judge on the highest court in the land be spending the night with the defendant who is before him?” Let our enemies defend him for this. Let them explain how this kind of lawlessness is a good thing for America and the world.

I have been against the death penalty all my life. Now I am positive that the death penalty is absolutely necessary for war criminals. They cannot be sequestered from society; it’s just impossible with existing technology. Many of those deeply involved in the Bush Juggernaut had already been convicted in other conspiracies, but they were pardoned and allowed to renew their criminal conduct, only with greater vigor. (By the way, this whole idea that some folks are above the law, that there’s a separate set of rules that some folks play by, really began with President Ford, who also happens to be the only president who never competed in an election. Before him, I believe that the concept was unthinkable, or at least un-Amercan.)

Additionally, we could argue for a Constituional ammendment declaring that corporations are not people. This also wins hearts and minds.

In any event, the public discourse should not be about the problems we face, as Paul Craig Roberts suggests, it should be about well-chosen paths out of this mess.
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Elvis » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:13 am

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/ ... 5-13-39-17
Oct 25, 4:22 PM EDT

Networks, AP changing exit poll strategy
By DAVID BAUDER
AP Television Writer


NEW YORK (AP) -- A growth in early voting and tough economy for the media are forcing changes to the exit poll system that television networks and The Associated Press depend upon to deliver the story on Election Night, all with the pressure-filled backdrop of a tight presidential race.

The consortium formed by ABC, CBS, CNN, Fox News Channel, NBC and the AP is cutting back this year on in-person exit polls while upping the amount of telephone polling. This is to take into account more people voting before Nov. 6 and households that have abandoned land lines in favor of cell phones.

"It makes it trickier," said Joe Lenski, executive vice president of Edison Research, the company that oversees the election operation for the news organizations. "It means there are a lot of different pieces to keep track of."

On a perfect Election Night, Americans who are tracking results won't notice all the work being done behind the scenes. The Associated Press reports actual vote counts nationwide and news organizations use those numbers, plus the exit polls, results from precinct samples in some states and telephone polls of absentee voters to do their own race calls.

But things haven't always gone perfectly. The news organizations completely rebuilt their exit poll system after the 2000 embarrassment, when TV networks mistakenly called the race for George W. Bush when it wasn't decided until a month later (the AP mistakenly called Florida for Al Gore, retracted it but, unlike the networks, never called the overall race for George W. Bush). In 2004, early exit poll results overestimated the strength of Democrat John Kerry.

To save money this year, the consortium is doing bare bones exit polling in 19 states. Enough voters will be questioned in those states to help predict the outcome of races, but not enough to draw narrative conclusions about the vote - what issues mattered most to women voting for Mitt Romney, for instance, or how many Catholics voted for Barack Obama.

The affected states are: Alaska, Arkansas, Delaware, Georgia, Hawaii, Idaho, Kentucky, Louisiana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, West Virginia and Wyoming, along with the District of Columbia.

Each is considered a non-battleground state with polls showing a strong advantage for one of the presidential candidates. Some non-battleground states will get the full exit poll for other reasons, like Massachusetts and its hotly contested U.S. Senate race between Scott Brown and Elizabeth Warren.

"What we are doing is taking our resources and using them where the stories are," said Sheldon Gawiser, NBC's elections director and head of the steering committee for the AP-network consortium.

Spending figures were not made available. News organizations have had a tough few years financially, but the consortium noted that it is interviewing a total of 25,000 voters this year, up from 18,000 in 2008.

Because of early voting, there are no traditional exit polls in Oregon, Washington and Colorado. A phone poll is done prior to Election Day in those states, taking in a mixture of people who have and haven't voted. Others states have a mixture of telephone polling and exit interviews. California, North Carolina and Arizona are among the states where the percentage of telephone polls has grown because of more people voting early.

More people are interviewed on cell phones because it is the primary way to contact them. The consortium said cell phone interviews are twice as expensive as those on land lines because of manpower costs, in large part because it is harder to reach people and federal law requires the phone numbers to be manually dialed instead of done by computers.

In addition to the exit poll changes, the news organizations are taking steps to improve their ability to include actual vote counts in their decisions on when to call particular states as a winner for either candidate. This usually involves collecting sample precincts that reflect a state's demographics.

Even this is complicated by local customs. Some states report precinct results more quickly than others. New Mexico, for example, sets up polling places where anybody from a particular county can cast a ballot; while this makes voting easier, it makes projections based on precinct samples more difficult.

Television viewers may notice that networks are being slower than in the past to project winners in certain states, but the consortium believes people won't see a difference.

If the actual election is as close as the pre-election polls are suggesting, it will be a long night, anyway.

With all the factors increasing the difficulties and costs associated with exit polling, it's worth wondering whether a time will come that the news organizations abandon them in favor of the pre-election polling. The experts say that time is nowhere near.

"One of the great advantage of exit polls is you don't have to worry about who voted. You don't have all of these `likely voter' issues that you have now," said Lee Miringoff, a pollster at Marist College.

Gawiser noted how the minds of voters can change, even up until the last possible minute.

"It's a story we want to be able to tell on Election Night and we want to be able to tell it accurately and rapidly," he said. "I really don't think it's much different than any other story we tell."

I'm not very comfortable with the wording of that last sentence. "Story we tell"?

It's odd that "the consortium" is never named. They're hiding something; as they jigger the numbers to match rigged results, the exit poll business has gotten murky:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti ... ction_Pool
National Election Pool

The National Election Pool (NEP) is a consortium of American news organizations formed in 2003 to provide "information on Election Night about the vote count, election analysis and election projections." [1] Member companies consist of ABC News, the Associated Press, CBS News, CNN, FOX News and NBC News.

NEP has relied on the Associated Press to perform vote tabulations and has contracted with Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International to "make projections and provide exit poll analysis." [1]

NEP and election protection

Exit polls are valued throughout the world as an important election verification technique. When Mexico sought legitimacy as a modernizing democracy in 1994, Carlos Salinas instituted reforms designed to ensure fair elections. A central feature of those reforms was exit polls.[2] In the 2000 Mexican election, Mitofsky was hired to conduct these exit polls to protect against vote fraud.[3]

The US has funded exit polls abroad because, state dept. officials testified, it is one of the few ways to expose and ascertain the extent of large-scale fraud.[4] Indeed, discrepancies between exit polls and the official results have been used to successfully overturn election results in Serbia, Peru, the Republic of Georgia and, in November 2004, Ukraine.[5]

In contrast to overseas exit polls, however, the US National Exit Poll (NEP) media exit poll does not report actual survey results, but rather adjusts data so as to conform with official numbers before reporting them.

History

Warren Mitofsky, the founder of Mitofsky International, introduced exit polling at CBS News as a way to help explain why voters chose one candidate over another. In the 1980 election, NBC for the first time used the exit polls to predict the outcome of the elections. The network blew away its competition -- correctly projecting races in state after state long before either ABC or CBS, who were still relying on officially reported results. [6]

In 1990, the networks pooled resources into a joint effort, called Voter Research Service (VRS), with Mitofsky as director, but answerable to the network representatives. In 1994, the networks also consolidated their vote counting operation (National Election Service -- or NES) with their exit poll operation. This new joint venture was renamed Voter News Service (VNS). [6]

In 2000, VNS data led all the networks to, first, project Gore the winner, then retract the projection, then project Bush the winner -- and thereby President, before retracting that projection as well. Based on the projection of Bush as winner, Gore called Bush to concede. When the error was observed, minutes before Gore was to deliver a public concession, Gore retracted his concession, and a long recount process entailed.

In 2002, VNS contracted with the Battelle Memorial Institute of Ohio to provide a software upgrade, but Battelle failed to produce. On election night that year, the networks announced that there would be no exit poll data, either for analysis of the vote or for projections, because of glitches in the new software. VNS was disbanded in 2003 [7] and NEP was formed. [6]

2004 Election

Leaked exit polling data throughout the day[8] and even after the polls closed[9] indicated a Kerry victory. News organizations operated most of the day on an expectation of a Kerry victory.[10]

NEP co-director, Edison's Joe Lenski responded to questions about the discrepancy between these numbers and official results by claiming that it was only "early" exit polls that showed Kerry leading[11] and by denouncing bloggers who leaked "early" data indicating Kerry had won. Said Lenski, "I'm not designing polls for some blogger who doesn't even understand how to read the data." [12]

Refusal to release data

NEP came under pressure for refusal to release exit poll data from a variety of sources including a congresional forum called by John Conyers, Jr., Ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee. [13]

NEP did evnetually release both data in archival form for statistical study, but these data did not include variables identifying precinct so that they were not useful in ascertaining the veracity of the US election. NEP also released a report on Jan 19, 2005 (Inauguration eve) including state, but not precinct level, data that could be used to pinpoint large disparties that could be investigated to determine whether, in fact, there was massive polling error or the official numbers were incorrect. [14]

The 2005 Inauguration eve report

On January 19, 2005, the eve of Bush’s inauguration, Mitofsky and Lenski released their explanation of why the exit polls diverged so greatly from thee official count in 2004. However, their report, “Evaluation of Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004”. The report generated headlines such as MSNBC's "Exit Polls Prove That Bush Won.” But the report did not even attempt any such proof. Rather, it restates the thesis that the pollsters had previously intimated—that the discrepancy was “most likely due to Kerry voters participating in the exit polls at a higher rate than Bush voters.” [15]

Critics claim, however, that the report's own data contradict this thesis, noting that participation rates were lower where Kerry voters predominated; and that, on the other hand, polling error cannot explain greater disparities in battleground states, states with Republican governors, and states there were more reports of Election Day voting problems. Or that in contrast to the seven-percentage-point disparity in precincts where the votes were counted by machines, no disparity is found in those few remaining precincts where votes were cast on paper and counted manually. [16] [17] [18] [19]

2006 Election

Problems struck yet again during the 2006 congressional elections. Early polling data on the Senate races across the country showed a higher percentage of Democrats having been surveyed than were being shown in raw vote tallies. Most members and subscribers decided to ignore the polling on the night of the election. [1]

Exit polls and election verification - moving forward

In 2004, we knew of the seven percentage point national discrepancy between how people said they voted and official numbers (11 percentage points in Ohio) only because of a technical glitch that prevented NEP from "correcting" results on election night. Such leaks and glitches are unlikely to happen again. In a presentation to the American Statistical Association, Warren Mitofsky that as an "improvement" in future exit polls, those with access to the data are to be quarantined without electronic or phone communication and subsequently sworn to secrecy. [20]

Election protection groups, Election Integrity, Election Defense Alliance and The Warren Poll are now conducting donor-supported transparent Election Verification Exit Polls (EVEPs) with methods and data fully disclosed to the public. [21]

Articles and resources

Related SourceWatch articles

Exit poll
Election verification exit poll

References

↑ 1.0 1.1 National Election Pool website Frequently Asked Questions
↑ Paul B. Carroll and Dianne Solis, “Zedillo’s Apparently Clean Win at Polls Diminishes Threat of Mexican Unrest,” Wall Street Journal, August 23, 1994.
↑ Rebeca Rodriguez, “U.S. Political Consultants Signed to Conduct Exit Poll in Mexico,” Knight Ridder Newspapers, June 16, 2000. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was the first time in the Mexican Institutional Revolutionary Party’s (PRI) seventy-two-year history that it lost an election. (Molly Moore and John Anderson, “Mexican Power Shift Stirs Wide Celebration; Fox Election Victory Called ‘Historic Turning Point,’” Washington Post, July 4, 2000, Final Edition.)
↑ Ambassador John Tefft, Deputy Assistant Secretary for European and Eurasian Affairs, Ukraine's Election: Next Steps: Testimony Before the House International Relations Committee, December 7, 2004
↑ Thom Hartmann, How to Take Back a Stolen Election November 29, 2004
↑ 6.0 6.1 6.2 David W. Moore New Exit Poll Consortium Vindication for Exit Poll Inventor, Gallup News Service, October 11, 2003
↑ Richard Morin, Networks To Dissolve Exit Poll Service: Replacement Sought For Election Surveys / Washington Post, January 14, 2003
↑ Slate, http://www.slate.com/id/2109053/ Updated Late Afternoon Numbers: Mucho flattering to Kerry; plus Nader makes an appearance
↑ Steven F Freeman http://www.appliedresearch.us/sf/Documents/ExitPoll.pdf The Unexplained Exit Poll Discrepancy
↑ News Hour with Jim Lehrer November 5, 2004
↑ Jim Ruttenberg, “Survey Experts Cite Problems with Data and Interpretation,” New York Times, November 4, 2004
↑ Nick Anderson and Faye Fiore, ELECTION 2004 / THE WHITE HOUSE "EXIT POLLS: Early Data for Kerry Proved Misleading" Los Angeles Times, November 4, 2004 page A17
↑ [www.openelections.org/lib/downloads/references/house_judiciary/final_status_report.pdf Preserving Democracy: What Went Wrong in Ohio, Appendix E. Letter from the Honorable John Conyers, Jr., Ranking Member, U.S. House Committee on the Judiciary requestin the raw exit poll data from Mitofsky
↑ Steven F. Freeman, Who Really Won – and Lost – the 2004 US Presidential Election? Presentation to the American Association for Public Opinion Research, Montreal, May 19, 2006
↑ Evaluation of Edison/Mitofsky Election System 2004 prepared by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International for the National Election Pool (NEP) embargoed for release at 10AM ET January 19, 2005, p.4
↑ Steven F. Freeman and Josh Mitteldorf A Corrupted Election: Despite what you may have heard, the exit polls were right February 15, 2005
↑ Steven F. Freeman, Polling Bias or Corrupted Count? Accepted Improbabilities and Neglected Correlations in 2004 US Presidential Exit Poll Data Presentation to the American Statistical Association, Philadelphia, October 14, 2005
↑ Steven F. Freeman and Joel Bleifuss, Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen? Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count(New York: Seven Stories Press, 2006) Chapter 5 "The Inauguration Eve Exit-Poll Report"
↑ Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., Was the 2004 Election Stolen? Rolling Stone, June 1, 2006
↑ “2004 Exit Polls: What Bloggers And Others Got Wrong” [Presentation to the American Statistical Association], Philadelphia, October 14, 2005
http://www.electionintegrity.org/blogen ... -Poll.aspx Announcing the Election Verification Exit Poll

External resources

Books

Steven F. Freeman and Joel Bleifuss, Was the 2004 Presidential Election Stolen? Exit Polls, Election Fraud, and the Official Count(New York: Seven Stories Press, 2006) Chapters 4 "Biased polls or biased count?" and 5 "The Inauguration Eve Exit-Poll Report"
In Defense of Public Opinion Polling by Ken Warren (Cambridge, Mass:Westview Press, 2003).

Websites:

Election Integrity: http://www.electionintegrity.org/
Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International National Elections Pool: http://www.exit-poll.net/faq.html
Edison Media Research exit poll page
National Election Archive Project: http://uscountvotes.org/

Articles:

Corn, David. 2004. A stolen election? The Nation 279, no. 18 (November 29): 5-7.
Steven F. Freeman, Who Really Won – and Lost – the 2004 US Presidential Election? Presentation to the American Association for Public Opinion Research, Montreal, May 19, 2006*Traugott, Michael, Benjamin Highton, and Henry E. Brady. 2005. A review of recent controversies concerning the 2004 presidential election exit polls. The National Research Commission on Elections and Voting.
US Count Votes. 2005 Analysis of the 2004 presidential election exit poll discrepancies. National Election Data Archive Project.
US Count Votes. 2005. The 2004 presidential election: Exit poll error or vote miscount? National Election Data Archive.
US Count Votes. 2005. History of the debate surrounding the 2004 presidential election.



Here's the report mentioned above with the delicious data---the elephant in the room---that demolishes its own authors' lame excuses:

http://www.electionintegrity.org/docume ... 050119.pdf



(edited to add emphases and pdf link)
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Nordic » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:45 am

Yeah, don't you love that. For the first time in history, a time when we're using easily hacked electronic voting machines and tabulators, the exit polls were SO wrong! Gosh, how could the EXIT POLLING be so different from the "official results"? MUST be something suddenly wrong, that was never wrong before, with the exit polling!

Solution: Get rid of exit polling!

:uncertain:
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby ninakat » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:20 am

Nordic wrote:So Rory. You're suggesting I have no capacity to think for myself and am just being conditioned in some sort of Pavlovian way ..... By whom exactly? Ted Rall? Cindy Sheehan? Who the FUCK do you think is brainwashing poor stupid little old me?

Pray tell.

Your ignorant-ass assumption is about as insulting as anything anyone has ever thrown my way. But I'm really curious as to who you think is behind thiS devious plot to virally market my hatred of Obama into my pliant brain.

So do go on.


Yeah, pretty damn insulting.... and without even a shred of evidence that some bizarre form of viral marketing is happening in this regard. But I guess Chris Floyd, Glen Ford, Glenn Greenwald, Norman Pollack, and so many others cited in this thread and in the Fuck Obama thread, who have elucidated in detail, with full evidence, the war crimes and crimes against humanity committed by Obama that ARE worse than Bush, are simply misinformed and reading the facts wrong, just misinterpreting them because they've somehow been conditioned to hate Obama like rednecks do, just programmed with a different hateful meme. Yeah, that works.

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:40 am

8bitagent wrote:http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/10/25/14700653-recount-tie-how-to-navigate-the-post-electoral-process?lite

Recount? Tie? How to navigate the post-electoral process
By Tom Curry, NBC News national affairs writer

By nearly every indication, the 2012 presidential election is heading toward a photo-finish both in the national popular vote and in the state-by-state Electoral College battle that will ultimately decide the winner.


And so the narrative has begun.

"Chuck, please, can we try and make sense of this? How in the world could this have happened" *extra frothy spittle than usual* - Chris Matthews, November 6th 2012

So will it be Ohio or Colorado where the dirty shenanigans are afoot?



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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby Usrename » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:59 am

Nordic wrote:Yeah, don't you love that. For the first time in history, a time when we're using easily hacked electronic voting machines and tabulators, the exit polls were SO wrong! Gosh, how could the EXIT POLLING be so different from the "official results"? MUST be something suddenly wrong, that was never wrong before, with the exit polling!

Solution: Get rid of exit polling!

:uncertain:


Yep, and those lying bastards at Edison/Mitofsky were the ones who said VNS got it wrong in FL2000. Only I saw it with my own two eyes. The VNS guy came on and explained how they were missing votes for Gore from Duval, Palm Beach, and one other county, about 50,000 IIRC. Right to the penny! Turns out those folks all voted twice for president. In one precinct in Duval one out of every five voters voted twice for president: "Stoopid ni**ers, ha, ha..."

Yeah, I grew up with this stuff before the Voting Rights Act. Double-punched ballots. I thought folks knew better now.
one if by land, two if by sea..
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:21 am

MacCruiskeen wrote:
JackRiddler wrote:Obama is the consolidation, legalization, and get-away for the Bush regime, which was the main show and 20+ years in the making.


But surely that's precisely the point, Jack. Why should anyone vote for a consolidation, legalization, and get-away for the Bush regime, least of all twice in a row? Because the only alternative is the Bush regime?


Because voting is relatively low-effort and depending on outcome gives you better conditions for organizing.

Voting doesn't change anything, remember?

Also, you're quoting one sentence but not the next.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby JackRiddler » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:27 am

Rory wrote:As for the 'Obama is worse than Bush', thought. LOL WUT?!

[...]

venomous, personalized hatred of Obama: To even the extent that some people think he's worse than Bush.

[...]

He. Is. Just. Another. Cog.

As is Romney, but with the endorsement of the American people to repeal environmental and social protections. [...]


Without getting into my different nuances or reasons, I agree with each of these stations in your post.

The Bush mob were sovereign within the executive, and executed a revolutionary program. Obama is merely allowed. From our RI perspective, most of us imagine he's enabling the next stage. I believe he's a limit - put in place to placate. His removal would mean approving and unleashing the next revolutionary stage.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

TopSecret WallSt. Iraq & more
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Re: The 2012 "Election" thread

Postby DrVolin » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:57 am

JackRiddler wrote:The Bush mob were sovereign within the executive, and executed a revolutionary program. Obama is merely allowed.


That is the key difference. Romney will be a return to sovereignty.
all these dreams are swept aside
By bloody hands of the hypnotized
Who carry the cross of homicide
And history bears the scars of our civil wars

--Guns and Roses
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