Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:20 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Thanks, c2w, for a typically courteous and detailed reply.

So far, it appears to be as I thought, then: 1) No one saw or heard Adam Lanza kill his mother, leave the house, drive the car, or enter the school. 2) No witness to the shootings has identified Adam Lanza as the masked gunman. 3) No one has even confirmed that that gunman was dark-haired, very young, or exceptionally thin.


Well....No one has told the press that those things happened, afaik. But (1) isn't suspicious in the slightest degree, and the other two would only be known to authorities (who have no reason to release those details at this point if nobody's clamoring for proof of the shooter's identity), on the one hand; and to a small number people who just witnessed the slaughter of 20 six-year-olds and are also very likely to have living children in need of comfort in their care, on the other.


I'm just trying to keep tabs on what we actually know right now, one full week after the massacre.


Not much. Tell me though, Mac. What do you think would be a credible motive for such a shooting?
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:22 pm

lupercal wrote:So far we have:

    * No motive.
    * No witnesses.
    * No photos.
    * No corpse.
    * No security video.
    * No known experience with firearms.
Looks like an airtight case to me.


We aren't very close to events.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby Crow » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:22 pm

Fresno_Layshaft wrote:Its been reported that he was an "organic vegan", that may account for his unhealthy appearance.


Rigid rules about food can be a cover for anorexia or bulimia. It can also be an eating disorder all on its own called orthorexia.

Symbolically, food issues are mother issues. That may apply in Lanza's case particularly.
User avatar
Crow
 
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2007 12:10 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:26 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:Could someone please post any verifiable or at least credible evidence that the masked gunman was in fact positively identified by any of the surviving witnesses as Adam Lanza? Thank you.


Could you, personally, using only the information on the Wikipedia article on the shooting, identify exactly how many witnesses to the shooter's actions might be available to make such a statement?

Fuck it, I'll try:

Someone killed Nancy Lanza, so she's not gonna be giving any statements. Then someone drove Ms. Lanza's car to the school. We don't know who. No one saw that happen. We don't even know if her car was in her garage or not. It may have been at the school at any time before the police ID'ed it as hers.

Then the shooter...

...shot his way through a locked glass door at the front of the school.[19][20] He was wearing black military-style gear, including a bulletproof vest and mask.[21][22] Some of those present reported that initial shots were heard on the school intercom system, which was being used for morning announcements.[16]


He was wearing a mask. How convenient. So the camera at the front door can't ID the shooter. Next...

Principal Dawn Hochsprung and school psychologist Mary Sherlach were meeting with other faculty members when they heard gunshots outside. Hochsprung and Sherlach immediately left the room and rushed to the source of the sounds and encountered Lanza, who shot both women dead as they confronted him.[23] Hochsprung may have turned on the school intercom to alert others in the building. A 9-year-old boy in the gymnasium said that he heard the shooter say "Put your hands up!" and someone else saying "Don't shoot!", over the intercom system. He also heard people yelling and many gunshots over the intercom as he, his classmates, and teacher took refuge in a closet in the gymnasium.[24] Diane Day, a school therapist who was at the faculty meeting, reported hearing screaming, followed by more gunshots. Natalie Hammond, lead teacher in the meeting room, pressed her body against the door to keep it closed. [The shooter] shot Hammond through the door in the leg and arm, for which she was later treated at Danbury Hospital.


Hochsprung and Sherlach - dead. No statements coming from them. Hammond - shot through the door where she and the other teachers in the meeting were barricaded. Again, how very convenient. None of them saw the shooter.

In a first-grade classroom, Lauren Rousseau, a substitute teacher since October, was shot in the face and killed. All but one of the children in her classroom were also shot dead; a 6-year-old girl was the sole survivor. Her family pastor said that the child survived the mass shooting by playing dead and remaining still until the building grew quiet and she felt it was safe to leave. She ran from the school, covered in blood, and was the first child to escape the building. When she reached her mother, she said, "Mommy, I'm OK, but all my friends are dead." The child described the shooter as a very angry man.[26]


Well, finally, a witness, and a live one at that, giving a description, albeit not a very detailed one, and not IDing the shooter by name.

The events in another first-grade classroom remain uncertain, with varying accounts attributed to the surviving children. Teacher Victoria Leigh Soto was reported to have attempted to hide several children in a closet and cupboards.[27][28] As [the shooter] entered her classroom, Soto reportedly told him that the children were in the auditorium. Several of the children then came out of their hiding place and tried to run for safety and were shot dead. Soto put herself between her students and the shooter, who then fatally shot her.[28] Six surviving children from Soto's class crawled out of the cupboards after the shooting and fled the school. They and a school bus driver took refuge at a nearby home.[29] As reported by his parents, a 6-year-old boy in Ms. Soto's class fled with a group of his classmates and the children escaped through the door when the gunman shot their teacher.[30


Hard to tell here. It sounds like all the survivors were hiding in cupboards where they probably wouldn't get a good look at the shooter. Again. And very conveniently, the survivors are all six years old, and in all likelihood won't be able to ID the shooter or describe him with much accuracy.

Anne Marie Murphy, a teacher's aide who worked with special-needs students, shielded 6-year-old Dylan Hockley with her body, trying to protect him from the bullets that killed them both.[31][32] Paraprofessional Rachel D'Avino, who had been employed at the school working with a special-needs student for a little more than one week, also died trying to protect her students.[33]

School nurse Sarah Cox, 60, hid under a desk in her office and described seeing Lanza enter her office and stand 20 feet away before turning around and leaving. She and school secretary Barbara Halstead then hid in a first-aid supply closet for up to four hours, after calling 9-1-1.[34] Elsewhere, a custodian ran through hallways, alerting classrooms.[35]


Aha! At last - we have an adult witness! But what can she tell us?

“I just dove under my computer desk,” she told The Post in an interview at her home in Newtown, a day after Adam Lanza stormed into her school and gunned down 20 children and six staffers.

Within seconds, the popping sounds stopped as quickly as they had started, and Cox held her breath when she heard someone open her office door.

Through the openings of the desk, she saw a pair of legs from the knees down wearing dark clothing and boots.

“I could see by the position of the feet that they were facing my desk,” Cox said, describing her brush with Lanza, 20, who had earlier killed his mother, Nancy, before unleashing his terror on the school.

Cox said he was no more than 20 feet away from her.

“The person was there just a few seconds,” Cox said. “I was frozen in fear.”

Cox crouched paralyzed under her desk.

“He turned around and walked out, and as soon as the door closed I heard more popping,” Cox recalled.


Oh, that's just greaaaaaat. Like she couldn't have peeked out for just a second to ID the shooter. As if she didn't have a celphone in her purse. Whatever.

And that's it. No one else really came in contact with the shooter:

First grade teacher Kaitlin Roig, age 29, hid 14 students in a bathroom and barricaded the door, telling them to be completely quiet to remain safe.[36][37] School library staff Yvonne Cech and Maryann Jacob first hid 18 children in a part of the library the school used for lockdown in practice drills, but on discovering that one of the doors would not lock, had the children crawl into a storage room as Cech barricaded the door with a filing cabinet.[6][24][38]

Music teacher Maryrose Kristopik, 50, barricaded her fourth-graders in a tiny supply closet during the rampage.[39] Lanza arrived moments later, pounding and yelling "Let me in", while the students in Kristopik's class quietly hid inside.[40]

Two third graders, chosen as classroom helpers, were walking down the hallway to the office to deliver the morning attendance sheet during the shooting. Teacher Abbey Clements pulled both children into her classroom, where they hid, saving their lives.[41]

Laura Feinstein, a reading specialist at the school, gathered two students from outside her classroom and hid with them under desks after they heard gunshots.[42] Feinstein called the school office and attempted to call 9-1-1 but was unable to connect because her cell phone did not have reception. She hid with the children for approximately 40 minutes, before law enforcement came to lead them out of the room.[43]


Her celphone didn't have reception. Right.

So: we have one witness, the six-year old girl from the Rousseau classroom who survived by playing dead. That's it. One. Hopefully some competent reporters will get their hands on her at some point in the near future so we can get a more detailed description than, "a very angry man". 'Cause that could be any number of people.

This thing has all the earmarks of a Beslan/Gladio/strategy of tension/NWO false flag designed to either sell guns or take them away, or some other nebulous and nefarious motive depending upon your perspective.
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:36 pm

compared2what? wrote:
lupercal wrote:So far we have:

    * No motive.
    * No witnesses.
    * No photos.
    * No corpse.
    * No security video.
    * No known experience with firearms.
Looks like an airtight case to me.


We aren't very close to events.

No manifesto, suicide note or confession, either. And after a week of saturation media coverage, don't you think that if anyone had actually witnessed this astounding metamorphosis from bubble boy to matricidal-suicidal-homocidal Rambo, we would have heard from them? :shrug:
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:38 pm

lupercal wrote:It looks like half the town was in on the action.


No doubt the whistleblowers will surface eventually.
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Sycamore is open...

Postby IanEye » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:45 pm

MacCruiskeen wrote:
And nobody heard the shots at his mother's house?
And nobody saw him leaving the house and entering her car heavily-armed and dressed in combat gear?


Mac, you might want to read this article to get a sense of why many residents of Newtown would no longer think twice about hearing the sound of gunshots or seeing people walking around with guns.

also curious to know when you last visited the U.S.

User avatar
IanEye
 
Posts: 4865
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:33 pm
Blog: View Blog (29)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:55 pm

barracuda wrote:
lupercal wrote:It looks like half the town was in on the action.


No doubt the whistleblowers will surface eventually.


I think you need to reread "The Lottery," that 1948 New Yorker classic by Shirley Jackson about a sleepy New England village not unlike Newtown: http://www.americanliterature.com/autho ... he-lottery Just to save a little trouble let's skip right to the spooky ending:

The children had stones already. And someone gave little Davy Hutchinson few pebbles.

Tessie Hutchinson was in the center of a cleared space by now, and she held her hands out desperately as the villagers moved in on her. "It isn't fair," she said. A stone hit her on the side of the head. Old Man Warner was saying, "Come on, come on, everyone." Steve Adams was in the front of the crowd of villagers, with Mrs. Graves beside him.

"It isn't fair, it isn't right," Mrs. Hutchinson screamed, and then they were upon her.


:tongout
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:00 pm

I've read it.

And anyway, there are (adult, living) witnesses:

Authorities investigating the massacre of 20 students and six adults at an elementary school are questioning two adults who were wounded in the shooting and survived, Connecticut State Police said on Monday.

The two survivors of Friday's shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut, are considered key witnesses who may be able to help police reconstruct the steps taken by the 20-year-old gunman who opened fire, State Police Lieutenant J. Paul Vance said at a media briefing.


LINK
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:08 pm

As to why they think Lanza did it:

Theodore Varga and other fourth-grade teachers were meeting; the glow remained from the previous night's fourth-grade concert.

"It was a lovely day," Varga said. "Everybody was joyful and cheerful. We were ending the week on a high note."

And then, suddenly and unfathomably, gunshots rang out. "I can't even remember how many," he said.

The fourth-graders, the oldest children in the school, were in specialty classes like gym and music. There was no lock on the meeting room door, so the teachers had to think about how to escape, knowing that their students were with other teachers.

Someone turned the loudspeaker on, so everyone could hear what was happening in the office.

"You could hear the hysteria that was going on," Varga said. "Whoever did that saved a lot of people. Everyone in the school was listening to the terror that was transpiring."

Gathered in another room for a 9:30 a.m. meeting were principal Dawn Hochsprung and school therapist Diane Day along with a school psychologist, other staff members and a parent. They were meeting to discuss a second-grader.

"We were there for about five minutes chatting, and we heard Pop! Pop!, Pop!" Day told The Wall Street Journal. "I went under the table."

But Hochsprung and the psychologist leaped out of their seats and ran out of the room, Day recalled. "They didn't think twice about confronting or seeing what was going on," she said. Hochsprung was killed, and the psychologist was believed to have been killed as well.

A custodian ran around, warning people there was a gunman, Varga said.

"He said, 'Guys! Get down! Hide!'" Varga said. "So he was actually a hero."

Did he survive? The teacher did not know.

Police radios crackled with first word of the shooting at 9:36, according to the New York Post.

"Sandy Hook School. Caller is indicating she thinks there's someone shooting in the building," a Newtown dispatcher radioed, according to a tape posted on the paper's website.

In a first-grade classroom, teacher Kaitlin Roig heard the shots. She immediately barricaded her 15 students into a tiny bathroom, sitting one of them on top of the toilet. She pulled a bookshelf across the door and locked it. She told the kids to be "absolutely quiet."

"I said, 'There are bad guys out there now. We need to wait for the good guys,'" she told ABC News.

"The kids were being so good," she said. "They asked, 'Can we go see if anyone is out there?' 'I just want Christmas. I don't want to die, I just want to have Christmas.' I said, 'You're going to have Christmas and Hanukkah.'"

One student claimed to know karate. "It's OK. I'll lead the way out," the student said.

In the gym, crying fourth-graders huddled in a corner. One of them was 10-year-old Philip Makris.

"He said he heard a lot of loud noises and then screaming," said his mother, Melissa Makris. "Then the gym teachers immediately gathered the children in a corner and kept them safe."

Another girl who was in the gym recalled hearing "like, seven loud booms."

"The gym teacher told us to go in a corner, so we all huddled and I kept hearing these booming noises," the girl, who was not identified by name, told NBC News. "We all started — well, we didn't scream; we started crying, so all the gym teachers told us to go into the office where no one could find us."

An 8-year-old boy described how a teacher saved him.

"I saw some of the bullets going past the hall that I was right next to, and then a teacher pulled me into her classroom," said the boy, who was not identified by CBSNews.com.

Robert Licata said his 6-year-old son was in class when the gunman burst in and shot the teacher. "That's when my son grabbed a bunch of his friends and ran out the door," he said. "He was very brave. He waited for his friends."

He said the shooter didn't utter a word.

"The shooting appears to have stopped," the dispatcher radioed at 9:38 a.m., according to the Post. "There is silence at this time. The school is in lockdown."

And at 9:46 a.m., an anguished voice from the school: "I've got bodies here. Need ambulances."

Carefully, police searched room to room, removing children and staff from harm's way. They found Adam Lanza, dead by his own hand after shooting up two classrooms; no officer fired a gun.



I'd say that it appears mostly due to none of the numerous people on and/or very close to the scene reporting more than one shooter; his body being present, complete with weapons; his car being parked in the fire lane outside the main entrance of the school; and (presumably) whatever the two people the shooter shot have to say about him from their beds in wherever-it-is that they're recovering.

(LINK)
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby compared2what? » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:17 pm

lupercal wrote:
compared2what? wrote:
lupercal wrote:So far we have:

    * No motive.
    * No witnesses.
    * No photos.
    * No corpse.
    * No security video.
    * No known experience with firearms.
Looks like an airtight case to me.


We aren't very close to events.

No manifesto, suicide note or confession, either.


None that was reported, no. But what would it prove -- or even mean -- if there wasn't a note/manifesto? There frequently aren't.

And after a week of saturation media coverage, don't you think that if anyone had actually witnessed this astounding metamorphosis from bubble boy to matricidal-suicidal-homocidal Rambo, we would have heard from them? :shrug:


No, not if they got shot while trying vainly to shield small childre from bullets. I mean, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the prime focus of attention from the media -- or the entire damn internet, ftm -- a week, month, year, decade or lifetime after something like that had happened to me.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby lupercal » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:27 pm

^ Not a whit of description or motive. About all we get is the name and we've had that since the story hit the wires last Friday. Jackson's fiction is more convincing.

Carefully, police searched room to room, removing children and staff from harm's way. They found Adam Lanza, dead by his own hand after shooting up two classrooms; no officer fired a gun.


Maybe it was Lanza, maybe not. Let's say it was. How do we know he wasn't shot in bed like his mother and then dumped at the site? At the moment I think it's more likely that he was never at the school, and his corpse was shipped directly to the morgue, if he's in a morgue. But he might not be there either.
User avatar
lupercal
 
Posts: 1439
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:06 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby 82_28 » Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:28 pm

I hate to say it, but this was a timed psyop for the holiday season and also double bind. All of my emotions point this direction. The NRA's bullshit, I feel, confirms this. There is no other explanation other than abject stupidity.

However. . .

We know already they are not stupid.

Math, do it.

It was a Merry Christmas wish from evil and we know how hidden they are. Their new front, as of now, is the NRA, to create yet another double bind.

Is there any question about the importance of understanding the children's game of hide and seek here? Was once fun, now it is deadly. These fuckers know exactly what they are doing.

Who are these "fuckers"? Don't read to much into this, but it is the occult.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
User avatar
82_28
 
Posts: 11194
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:34 am
Location: North of Queen Anne
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:00 pm

compared2what? wrote:And anyway, there are (adult, living) witnesses:


There's some question about that. Natalie Hammond was in the hallway with Hochsprung and Sherlach by a few reports, but most place her taking fire through the door while barricading it with her body. The second adult witness is as yet unidentified either by name or circumstance to my knowledge. So it's entirely possible that neither of the wounded survivors saw the shooter face to face. And as he was masked upon entry, it's possible it wouldn't matter as far as the stringent requirements which seem to be needed by some in this discussion.
User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Connecticut Elementary School Massacre

Postby barracuda » Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:04 pm

lupercal wrote:I think you need to reread "The Lottery,"


User avatar
barracuda
 
Posts: 12890
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 5:58 pm
Location: Niles, California
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 166 guests