How Bad Is Global Warming?

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Postby wintler2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 am

Some thoughts on current Qld floods..

- 10m waves directly off s.qld coast - unusual cos Great Barrier Reef usually calms near-coastal waters. The GBR is however in decline, due to pollution, temp-bleaching events, tourism, and increasing ocean acidity.

- 1000mm of rain in last 24hrs in Gold Coast hinterland- about their annual average.

- theres alot of foam being pushed onshore - how much of it is literally sewerge? Is the sea spitting not swallowing?

- third year in a row of flooding in some towns (after decades of not), so whats new? whats new is insurance is now simply unaffordable or unavailable to many, economic impact on those who occupy lowlying land only grows.

- major coal export port Gladstone shutdown, woo hoo!

& finally, a useful tip on how to adapt - practice climbing on your roof..

Warren Mergard from the Salvation Army says the record-breaking flood is already hitting areas that escaped previous natural disasters.

"It's have to be probably a couple of metres higher I reckon than what it was last time," Mr Mergard said.

"We've never had water into this area as far as I know, even back in '1942 or even in 2010-11.

Another two army helicopters have been sent to Bundaberg to help residents stranded in floodwaters.

The State Emergency Service (SES) is assisting with mass evacuations out of the city.

Deputy Mayor David Batts said earlier this morning that residents had begun to realise the gravity of the situation.

"We have hundreds of people if not thousands of people that will be looking for evacuation in the next few hours," Councillor Batts said.

"Those who didn't leave their homes at North Bundaberg during yesterday's evacuations are now being rescued."

The disaster co-ordination centre says helicopters are trying to rescue about 30 people from roofs.

Senior Sergeant Grant Marcus says authorities are doing what they can.

"Swift water rescue is not possible," he said.

"We have three winch-capable helicopters trying to attempt rescues at this point in time."

Residents in urgent need of rescue have been told to climb onto their roofs.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-01-28/d ... od/4486946


Check out how fast the floodwater is moving in Bundaberg, 40 knots apparently
http://media.brisbanetimes.com.au/natio ... from=strap
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:08 am

wintler2 wrote...
Thanks for the motherhood statement, but WTF has that to do with anthropogenic global warming?


Because, in a manner analogous to the religious example of dogma inhibiting ones connection to the divine, so also in a secular context, dogma inhibits intellectual acuity.

It causes people to choose wrong targets and this is how and why we seem to be so stymied by these events of modern civilization.


Your defence of your behaviour is so far off topic as to be a worry


I know, I’m supposed to be out killing heretics. Maybe you should express your worries to the moderators.

- take your banal philosophical crusade to a thread that gives a shit.


Thanks wintler2, but I’m already fairly clear on the idea that you don’t give a shit about my perspective. But it remains the case that your not giving a shit is the thing that turns my words into banality rather than their intrinsic merit.

At any rate my thing is more like psychology than philosophy. And some people might be tired of being led around by nose rings, so these words are for them.

I perform the painful service of telling people about how to pull the nose ring out.

While you perform the service of assuring folk that the nose ring is 24-ct. gold and that it is best to keep it in and brag about how shiny it is to friends and enemies alike. :jumping: :jumping: :eeyaa :partydance: :partydance: :shrug:
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby wintler2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:19 am

Sounder wrote:..
At any rate my thing is more like psychology than philosophy. ...


You admit no particular interest in the topic at hand - perhaps you just want somebody to listen to you on your pet subject, and so haunt threads other people are interested in. Have you tried gardening? Much more rewarding, and you can talk to the plants too.
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Postby wintler2 » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:27 am

Sounder - Okay clown, you've demonstrated repeated bad faith as far as i'm concerned, welcome to my very exclusive ignore list.

--




Back to Topic - How Bad Is Global Warming?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:15 am

Pre-script; My words here are about Global Warming, specifically the video clip posted up-thread where the 'weather' man explains our current cold using the concept of forcing and then backs up his words by saying that the Arctic is currently ice free. I looked, the Arctic is not at all ice free. This is an example of scientism where the conclusions are allowed take precedence over and be treated as being more important than empirical observations.

Or is it OK to lie to people 'for their own good'?



sounder wrote...
Because, in a manner analogous to the religious example of dogma inhibiting ones connection to the divine, so also in a secular context, dogma inhibits intellectual acuity.


This sentence is directed at Nordics concerns, and sorry if this endorsement works the wrong way, but I share many of your sensibilities and find you to be an excellent poster for this board.

I agree that the use of hydrocarbons must be stopped. But I hope and trust that human ingenuity will be the source and cause of this stoppage rather than some dictat from some god-man in Brussels. add on edit; it is in this way that we vote for real science rather than a political expression of science that has turned to scientism.

And thank-you wintler2 for your endorsement, you illustrate well the depth of the blindness that willful ignorance is sure to cultivate.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:39 am

Yes! Of course. How very blind of me! In all my years I always thought a mother's love for their newborn was something natural. Thank goodness for Sounder!

I never knew that the "love" I imagined a mother felt for their newborn was a fraud perpetrated by some mysterious and unnamed "religion." Thank you, Sounder for once again opening my eyes widely to hidden knowledge I've been blind to. What would we do without you?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Iamwhomiam » Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:49 am

Is it too late to save Earth?
Some scientists say climbing carbon dioxide levels may cause "catastrophic warming" within decades

By Carolyn Lochhead
9:56 am, Monday, January 28, 2013

In his inaugural address Monday, President Barack Obama made climate change a priority of his second term. It may be too late.

Within the lifetimes of today's children, scientists say, the climate could reach a state unknown in civilization.

In that time, global carbon dioxide emissions from burning fossil fuels are on track to exceed the limits that scientists believe could prevent catastrophic warming. Carbon dioxide levels are higher than they have been in 15 million years.

The Arctic, melting rapidly and probably irreversibly, has reached a state that the Vikings would not recognize.

"We are poised right at the edge of some very major changes on Earth," said Anthony Barnosky, a University of California, Berkeley professor of biology who studies the interaction of climate change with population growth and land use. "We really are a geological force that's changing the planet."

The Arctic melt is occurring as the planet is just 0.8 degree Celsius (1.4 degrees Fahrenheit) warmer than it was in pre-industrial times.

At current trends, Earth could warm by 4 degrees Celsius in 50 years, according to a November World Bank report.

The coolest summer months would be much warmer than today's hottest summer months, the report said. "The last time Earth was 4 degrees warmer than it is now was about 14 million years ago," Barnosky said.

Experts said it is technically feasible to halt such changes by nearly ending the use of fossil fuels. It would require a wholesale shift to renewable fuels that the United States, let alone China and other developing countries, appears unlikely to make.

Indeed, many Americans do not believe humans are changing the climate.

"Science is not opinion, it's not what we want it to be," said Katherine Hayhoe, an evangelical Christian, climatologist at Texas Tech University and lead author on the draft climate assessment report issued this month by the National Climate Assessment and Development Advisory Committee.

"You can't make a thermometer tell you it's hotter than it is," said Hayhoe, who with her husband, a linguist and West Texas pastor, has written a book on climate change addressed to evangelicals.

"And it's not just about thermometers or satellite instruments," she said. "It's about looking in our own back yards, when the trees are flowering now compared to 30 years ago, what types of birds and butterflies and bugs we see that ... used to be further south."

Robins are arriving two weeks early in Colorado. Frogs are calling sooner in Ithaca. The Sierra Nevada snowpack is melting earlier.

Cold snaps like the one gripping the East still happen, but less often.

Scientists are loath to pin a specific event such as Hurricane Sandy or floods in England to global warming.

But "the risk of certain extreme events, such as the 2003 European heat wave, the 2010 Russian heat wave and fires, and the 2011 Texas heat wave and drought has ... doubled or more," said Michael Wehner, a staff scientist at Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and co-author of the climate assessment report.

"Some of the changes that have occurred are permanent on human time scales."

A key question is when greenhouse gas emissions might reach a tipping point, where changes become self-reinforcing and out of human control.

Arctic sea ice reflects the sun. As it melts, the dark ocean absorbs more solar heat, raising temperatures. Similarly, the Greenland ice sheet is melting rapidly, reducing reflectivity, and possibly speeding up the melting of the West Antarctic ice sheet. The northern permafrost is thawing, with the potential to release methane, a potent greenhouse gas, and carbon dioxide stored in soils. These can produce sudden, so-called nonlinear changes that are hard to predict.

"We could be at a tipping point where the climate just abruptly warms," said Mark Z. Jacobsen, director of Stanford University's atmosphere/energy program. An Arctic melting "would make it more difficult for the Northern hemisphere to cool down, so all Greenland would be next. Greenland stores about five to seven meters of sea level."

UC Berkeley's Barnosky said tipping points could come earlier than anticipated when factoring in population growth and land use.

More than 40 percent of Earth's land surface has been covered by farms and cities.

Much of the rest is cut by roads. By 2025, the percentage of development could reach half, a level that on smaller scales has led to ecological crashes.

"It's just sort of simple math: the more people, the more footprint," Barnosky said. "If we're still on a fossil fuel economy in 50 years, there is no hope for doing anything about climate change. It will be here in such a dramatic way that we won't recognize the planet we're on."

Not all climate scientists are so gloomy. Ashley Ballantyne, a bioclimatologist at the University of Montana who studies paleoclimate records, said the climate has always changed, with ice ages, warmings and mass extinctions. He said at current carbon dioxide concentrations, the Arctic and Greenland are likely to become ice-free, as they were 4 million years ago.

Polar bears are poorly adapted to such conditions, he said, "but it wasn't bad for boreal trees. They were quite happy."

Clochhead@sfchronicle.com
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Re: Breaking News ~ Bendy was Right!!!

Postby DrEvil » Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:26 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Image


Don't worry. God is on the case.
Image
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:49 pm

Yes! Of course. How very blind of me! In all my years I always thought a mother's love for their newborn was something natural. Thank goodness for Sounder!

I never knew that the "love" I imagined a mother felt for their newborn was a fraud perpetrated by some mysterious and unnamed "religion." Thank you, Sounder for once again opening my eyes widely to hidden knowledge I've been blind to. What would we do without you?


It works for you to be so rude because your opinions are in line with consensus. On the other hand it is very rude of me to hit your triggers so hard. So I am sorry and will try to stop.

Maybe we can make a deal. If you can explain to me where you made the connections between mothers love being a fraud because of religion and my words, I will then retire from all climate change threads. That’s a good deal for you.

Some people here are bound to read that article and KNOW sub-consciously at least that this is fear porn produced by the very people that live to create debt. But ya got to hand it to them, they are very good at what they do.

[quote]
At current trends, Earth could warm by 4 degrees Celsius in 50 years, according to a November World Bank report[/quote].
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby JackRiddler » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:55 pm

So if only the World Bank, IMF, CIA, Wall Street, the Pentagon, Harvard-Princeton-Yale, Oxbridge, all USG agencies, the UN, globalist Al Gore, the disgusting Eurocrats in Brussels, all political parties with any participation in government, zero-population advocates, Bilderbergers and Trilateralists, billionaires generally, the corporate media, the NYT, naive liberals, Henry Kissinger and all the fancy elite universities and generally evil corporate think-tanks would all just say pollution is great and there is no global warming due to it, or better yet stopped talking about any of this ever again, then that, finally, would be evidence that it's really happening!
We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

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The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby The Consul » Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:10 pm

Denial transcends intelligence as keenly as greed, glutonny and lust. There is no escaping any of it. The Road will look like an Archie Comic book compared to what is coming. Quick, somebody – tell me that is not true (even if you use the word “necessarily”). I am battling my inner Kurtz. No whiskey or pills work unless of course you can deny. Deny. DENY! Sativa even is useless. The uprising – where is it? Oh. Nevermind. This is a bad dream, that’s all it is. I am just a roadie for the Dead having a bad dream 37 years ago in a sound truck in Flagstaff. Pretty soon I’ll wake up, forget the whole thing and we’ll load up for Albuquerque. Right?
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 am

Jack wrote...
and all the fancy elite universities and generally evil corporate think-tanks would all just say pollution is great and there is no global warming due to it, or better yet stopped talking about any of this ever again, then that, finally, would be evidence that it's really happening!


Jack, you deal here with my assertion, and good on ya for it. It is a step up and a good bit more like critical thinking than are nasty personal insinuations that best serve as decoys from addressing real concerns about the molded and manipulated unfolding of the human condition.

One thing though Jack, you should try to resist telling me what I think. You are so wrong about the conclusions you try to have as being drawn by me from my thinking.

Pollution is the major problem of this civilization. All kinds, from DU to nuclear waste and on to many other forms of pollution. Now we have the same folk (bankers) that show an extreme lack of concern about pollution, given their primary goal in life is to create debt, done till now mostly through financing of despots and war, successfully selling the notion that if we create 14 trillion of new debt that they will do the right thing and ‘fight’ pollution? Anybody remember the wars on terrorism, cancer or drugs. The money is for the players and not for solutions.

Same as it ever was.

Solutions do not come through big daddy, they only come through human ingenuity.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby Sounder » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:25 am

It is a good tactical move to ignore rather than to try to refute the obvious. Bankers live to create debt, therefore any scheme that involves the creation of large new debt must be examined in light of truths we know about bankers.

Wars have till now been the best banker technique for sowing divisiveness (evil). In order to sustain wars the enemy must be dehumanized and a sense of self righteousness cultivated in the ‘client’ population. AGW is an ideal vehicle for this sort of thing in that folk on both sides of the issue will tend to dehumanize the opponent at least partly as a way to maintain a self righteous stance. Either way, divisiveness creators are winning.

Ben D endeavored to engage with you all without the dehumanization element and he was met with savage disrespect. You all have driven away another alternative voice from this forum, great job you all are doing on practicing critical thinking skills. As soon as you have no dissenters you can really get to work on those critical thinking skills.

But I digress; AGW now seems to me more like an expression of our impotency for dealing with pollution rather than a proper way to deal with pollution. I mean, hell we recently had full meltdown in Fukishima and the whole world seems to think that our best option is to ignore it. And people buy into AGW despite the implications of this larger context. Give me a fricken break. Not to mention horrible pollution associated with (well financed) warmongering in general.

Lefties may say they hate the BBC, but they sure seem to like a lot of what it does and represents. Go figure.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvan ... f-BBC.html

David Bellamy tells of moment he was "frozen out" of BBC

David Bellamy has described how the BBC “froze him out” when he dismissed global warming as “poppycock”.
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Re: How Bad Is Global Warming?

Postby brainpanhandler » Wed Jan 30, 2013 1:45 pm


"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
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Postby wintler2 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 3:05 pm

The Insurance Council of Australia has officially declared three natural disasters so far for 2013 (the Tasmanian bush fires, New South Wales bush fires, and cyclone Oswald).

And lets not forget Ozs hottest day EVER, 7 Jan 2012
Image or that for the first time ever, the continent recorded five consecutive days with an average temperature exceeding 39 degrees; each of the first six days of 2013 were amongst the 20 hottest days on record.
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