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82_28 wrote:I think that something like Jesus has always existed.
Simulist wrote:82_28 wrote:I think that something like Jesus has always existed.
Absolutely! — in each of us.
NeonLX wrote:Simulist wrote:82_28 wrote:I think that something like Jesus has always existed.
Absolutely! — in each of us.
Even in The Dick Cheney? Or Henry the K?
alwyn wrote:i read the article, but i was far more interested in your lead-in to it.
i always thought that if there was a Satan, he would convince everyone that this place was imaginary, and that their real world and reward was in heaven, so it was ok to trash the place. when the deluded woke up in hell they it looked strangely like the earth they had just trashed...
Marie Laveau wrote:Well......
Having come out of something similar to Jeff's experience, and having read and read and read and read, and still being of the inclination that we, as a species, really don't know much of anything at all....
it seems elementary to me that anything the establishment pushes -- religion or science -- for example, is probably something a person would want to steer away from. But that's just me.
Of course, I will be honest in saying I have no idea what one should steer toward, either. Oddly enough, though I know most people have something that brings them comfort (and I have no problem with that, whatever it might be) I have found that the not knowing is comforting. Much more comforting than the religious/political BS I was taught. Which wasn't in the least bit comforting, IF you read the book a few times. There's some WEIRD $h!t in that thing.
One Gnostic mythos describes the declination of aspects of the divine into human form. Sophia (Greek: Σοφια, lit. “wisdom”), the Demiurge’s mother and a partial aspect of the divine Pleroma or “Fullness,” desired to create something apart from the divine totality, and without the receipt of divine assent. In this abortive act of separate creation, she gave birth to the monstrous Demiurge and, being ashamed of her deed, wrapped him in a cloud and created a throne for him within it. The Demiurge, isolated, did not behold his mother, nor anyone else, and thus concluded that only he himself existed, being ignorant of the superior levels of reality that were his birth-place.
The Demiurge, having stolen a portion of power from his mother, sets about a work of creation in unconscious imitation of the superior Pleromatic realm: He frames the seven heavens, as well as all material and animal things, according to forms furnished by his mother; working however blindly, and ignorant even of the existence of the mother who is the source of all his energy. He is blind to all that is spiritual, but he is king over the other two provinces. The word dēmiourgos properly describes his relation to the material; he is the father of that which is animal like himself.[12]
Thus Sophia’s power becomes enclosed within the material forms of humanity, themselves entrapped within the material universe: the goal of Gnostic movements was typically the awakening of this spark, which permitted a return by the subject to the superior, non-material realities which were its primal source.
JackRiddler wrote:Dave McGowan shows the downside of being the sharpest knife: you just can't stop stabbing.
Very little in the way of conspiratainment is actually entertaining, but he is a talented humorist, so he pulls it off.
Random Thoughts at the Dawn of the Year 2012
February 13, 2012
I thought I’d begin this rant by sharing some of my thoughts on the historical figure known as Jesus of Nazareth. I think we can all agree that, unlike some of the other subjects I have weighed in on in the past, this is one on which people do not tend to have strongly held points-of-view, so there is little chance that I will offend and alienate readers right off the bat.
So let’s jump right into it then with observation #1: When the likely outcome of an unwed pregnancy is death by stoning, people can be really creative liars.
Nothing in the least bit controversial about that … right? Let’s move on then to observation #2: It is fully understandable why the lie was told, and even why many people in that era might have believed it; what is more difficult to understand is why tens of millions of people around the world still believe it 2,000 years later.
I doubt that I’ve lost anyone yet, so let’s quickly move on to observation #3: Jesus was initially described as coming from a line of men who worked with their hands, which was later interpreted to mean that he was a carpenter. Given though that the primary building materials in the land of his birth were sand and rock, it is far more likely that Joseph and his sons were stone masons. Just saying …
Observation #4: Jesus of Nazareth’s real father was undoubtedly a Roman citizen. Some have speculated that he was the product of rape by one of the notoriously ruthless Roman storm-troopers, but his later actions suggest to this completely impartial observer that it was more likely a consensual coupling and that the father was someone of considerably more importance than a mere soldier.
Observation #5: Jesus was very likely a controlled Roman asset. Just as, nearly two thousand years later, the obviously controlled asset known as Jesse Jackson replaced the slain Martin Luther King, and the equally controlled asset known as Louis Farrakhan replaced the eliminated Malcolm X, so it was that Jesus was maneuvered into position to replace the executed John the Baptist, who had, I’m guessing, become a bit of a problem for the Roman overseers.
The message that the emergent messiah delivered to those living under the brutal hand of those Roman occupiers was, by any rational analysis, exactly the wrong one. It was a message brimming with advice about loving neighbors and turning cheeks … a message that constantly reinforced the notion that it was better to be poor and oppressed than wealthy and powerful, for the poor, you see, were going to spend all eternity in the glorious ‘Kingdom of Heaven,’ while the rich were going to burn in the fires of Hell (unless they were somehow able to steer their camels through the eye of a needle, or something like that).
It was, in other words, a belief system seemingly designed specifically to suppress any thoughts of rebellion amongst the unwashed masses. And the beauty of it was that no one would find out if the fabled Kingdom of Heaven actually existed until it was too late for them to get a refund.
I know what you’re thinking here: “But Dave, didn’t the Romans execute Jesus, and do so in a horrifically brutal and sadistic manner – you know, like in that Mel Gibson torture-porn flick?”
SNIP etc. etc.
As often the case, I enjoy this long after the point of derailment, when he makes one of his inevitable switches from logical speculation (I'm sure his observations #1 and #2 and possibly #4 have occurred to most of you, as they did to the Monty Python writers of Life of Brian) to an extended novelization of a possible scenario, treated as though proven.
Even though, of course, the likeliest scenario of all is that Jesus is a character made up decades after the time of the supposed crucifixion. And that the form Christianity had taken by the time of Constantine was, in fact, fathered by Romans as a slave religion, even if not in the literal sense McGowan suggests above.
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Simulist wrote:It's not even altogether clear that an historical person, Jesus of Nazareth, actually lived!
No historians of the time mention Jesus. Suetonius (65-135) does not. Pliny the Younger only mentions Christians (Paulists) with no comment of Jesus himself. Tacitus mentions a Jesus, but it is likely that after a century of Christian preaching Tacitus was just reacting to these rumours, or probably talking about one of the many other Messiah's of the time. Josephus, a methodical, accurate and dedicated historian of the time mentions John the Baptist, Herod, Pilate and many aspects of Jewish life but does not mention Jesus. (The Testimonium Flavianum has been shown to be a third century Christian fraud). He once mentions a Jesus, but gives no information other than that he is a brother of a James. Jesus was not an unusual name, either. Justus, another Jewish historian who lived in Tiberias (near Kapernaum, a place Jesus frequented) did not mention Jesus nor any of his miracles. It is only in the evidence of later writers, writing about earlier times, that we find a Jesus. What is more surprising (Jesus could simply have been unknown to local historians) is that academics note that the gospels themselves do not allude to first-hand historical sources, either! Link
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