Texas campus mass stabbing event.

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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby Elihu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:03 pm

the purity of the vision is not in question. i'm just flummoxed by the myopia and selective valuation of human life (or death in this case). nice point operator. scoreboard for officially sanctioned murder. there's not another game in town. but they're all mostly brown, yellow and other colors so they don't officially count. the double standard is the foundation of all prohibition.

so examine our hierarchical imperial government. what do you think of selective enforcement of laws? of selective prosecution? of business monopolies? of media monopolies? of sanctioned lying? of the private skim of ostensibly public money? do these things not have an effect on the public spirit? and yet somehow this is the same establishment to which people are ready to cede authority to attempt (granting it's not a con from the get-go) to bring about some utopian aspect of no ability to hurt one another phantasmagorically. as if, in this one case, something so thoroughly evil will come correct on this one.

of millions of people a tiny percent will go postal (although the incidents go emotionally and viscerally viral) so the response is to indict the 99% with the 1%. if they assert that the 1% (or even one) is worth it (don't make me laugh, apply your standards to the whole empire), aside from being statistically impossible to eliminate, it is the proverbial killing of a gnat with a sledgehammer. it is the pollyana desire for the non-existence of a widely disbursed centuries old technology.

so, supposing it gets enacted, i assume their conscience would be assuaged in spite of having actually achieved nothing.

but, while an intensely salient point, i don't think this is the main one. we all seem to agree that an outright ban or confiscation is unlikely, leaving aside the FACT that the agents of empire are accelerating their death making capacity. the real damage. the ongoing damage as a result of not being able to address the real cause of our neuroses is the schism in society itself. one can see it already. we are reaching the point where the use of a metaphor to illustrate one's position is now cited as evidence of malicious intent. pre-crime. the kind of thing that gets people convicted in the kangaroo court of public opinion. can the empire's courts be far behind? is it not obvious that's what they're angling for? have you not considered how you would feel if fellow citizens (from the 99%) who had committed no violence were convicted on these grounds? even if this can be taken as exaggeration, have you not thought about the pall of fear you are calling down on YOUR society at the behest of the empire? cui bono?
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby 82_28 » Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:28 pm

Here's the deal as a gun hater, Elihu. I don't give a fuck if you have a gun and I don't hate you. I hate guns -- period. I like them in a video game or two. But when they become some kind of idol to some other force out there in the universe and I recognize it as such, I recognize the idoliztion not the freedom it provides for you. Because it fucking doesn't provide anything. It provides you with an instrument and gadget, machine of death where I do not appreciate the existence of. But you are the "free" one. I am trapped in your world of "reality" where I cannot stand the sight of a gun in person. You are infringing upon my rights when you take the logical conclusion of gun people to the end of the argument.

What it comes down to is you have a gun and I don't. So you are instantly stronger than me. There you have it. I have my voice, fingers to type with and fists. You badasses have guns! I don't understand the need for a gun. So shoot me for it and your culture I hate, respect, but hate.
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby Elihu » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:31 am

if they assert that the 1% (or even one) is worth it (don't make me laugh, apply your standards to the whole empire),
it occured to me as i reflected on this part of my post how horrible it must have sounded to those who have lost someone and i know we have those here. it was callous and hasty. your loved one is worth the whole blankity blanking universe. i apologize.

admitting the possibility i'm wrong, my motivation was/is to see less mayhem, not more....
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby justdrew » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:35 am

if the choice is take a beating or kill someone... or just, loose a wallet or kill someone... and then, if you have a gun, and don't use it, an attacker will take it, maybe freaked out enough to just shoot you with it, fearing you've got another holdout somewhere, so a situation that could have been unpleasant turns lethal. I really think the % of situations where a gun will be any practical protection is very low.

I'm sympathetic to the idea of having one (but I don't and wont), I enjoyed L. Neil Smith's Probability Broach universe, but I don't think it's likely that things will ever work out that way here. It would be an overreaction to try to eliminate civilian gun ownership, but again, no one is really suggesting that. The sensible goal should be to move toward treating guns like cars. Sure some crazies are still going to go off, but there's little doubt in my mind that it will at least turn SOME such incidents from gun massacres into knife wielding nut attacks. and that's worth it. It will also reduce general criminal gun accessibility. no doubt about it. It's not SO easy or safe to access a blackmarket dealer, and such operations can be targeted and shut down too.
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby operator kos » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:57 am

justdrew wrote:well, you'll be glad to know no one's serious about taking guns away. Why they should be treated differently than cars escapes me though.


I WOULD be glad to know that nobody's taking my guns away. As it currently stands, I'm not even allowed to carry a gun, which is, you know, a part of the whole keep AND BEAR arms thing. There are all kinds of pointless restrictions on the type of gun I can own (oh no! a pistol grip will suddenly turn that rifle into a weapon of mass destruction!) and there is serious consideration of restricting or eliminating the legal ability to own semi-automatic rifles. Cars are much more dangerous than guns in my experience. I've nearly been killed by people in cars several times, and I've only had guns pointed my way a few times (and always by gang members in blue uniforms).
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby operator kos » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:04 am

Also, I'd like an explanation of something a number of people in this thread have said in one form or another... you just hate guns and wish they don't exist. Well, fine, but that's not a basis for developing social policy or law. I wish we rode unicorns instead of driving gas-guzzling cars. Your argument needs to start from reality. Even if guns didn't exist, and we forgot they ever existed, they would be invented again tomorrow. So given that, what do we do? Personally, as someone firmly in the libertarian-socialist quadrant of the political-economic spectrum, I believe in the diffusion of power. I'd rather everyone be able to have the power that guns grant than only a tiny political/military elite.
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby justdrew » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:24 am

what if we developed personal shields ala Dune that would prevent any bullets from hitting anyone wearing one, and they'd be as common as belt buckles?

http://youtu.be/KYUolurihOQ?t=1m1s
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby 82_28 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:59 am

Gun people are all nuts. Like seriously? It's a gun, chiefs and has no use in civilization. I have fucking grown up to the age of 38 not ever HAVING TO FUCKING USE ONE. Even though a shit ton of people have passed on in life. The only argument for guns is that they are necessary. No, no they are not. Fuck guns.
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby compared2what? » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:09 am

Elihu wrote:it's a net-net win-win for everybody. prohibition always makes society alot better.


There is NO THREAT -- and also NO CHANCE -- of prohibition.

None.

I'm not anti-gun either. I'm just anti-ridiculously-transparent-diversionary-issue-that-prevents-people-from-protecting-the-rights-they're-actually-in-some-danger-of-losing..

operator kos wrote:
justdrew wrote:well, you'll be glad to know no one's serious about taking guns away. Why they should be treated differently than cars escapes me though.


I WOULD be glad to know that nobody's taking my guns away. As it currently stands, I'm not even allowed to carry a gun, which is, you know, a part of the whole keep AND BEAR arms thing. There are all kinds of pointless restrictions on the type of gun I can own (oh no! a pistol grip will suddenly turn that rifle into a weapon of mass destruction!) and there is serious consideration of restricting or eliminating the legal ability to own semi-automatic rifles.



Newsflash: Your rights don't include keeping whatever arms you want and bearing them wherever and whenever your heart desires. Does the gun you do own do whatever it is that you want to have a gun in order to do? If so, excellent. Stop complaining.


It's possible that those pointless restrictions might actually appear to have a point if you tried considering them in the context of everybody to whom they applied rather than that of their inapplicability to you, personally.

Also: Nobody is taking your guns away. The restrictions on semi-automatic rifles that they're talking about were the law for years quite recently. They're toothless and easily side-steppable. And they might not even pass.

I thought your first post was perfectly acceptable snark and undeserving of the pile-on, btw.


Cars are much more dangerous than guns in my experience. I've nearly been killed by people in cars several times, and I've only had guns pointed my way a few times (and always by gang members in blue uniforms).


But there are plenty of regulations and restrictions on who can keep and bear what kind of car already. And you do know that there are lots of other people who get shot by civilians on a daily basis, though, right?

Americans have shot a lot of people with rifles. Almost without exception, the Americans holding those rifles have been soldiers, and the people they shot had the misfortune of being in the way of corporate profits.


...

Homicide, suicide, and unintentional firearm fatality: comparing the United States with other high-income countries, 2003.
Richardson EG, Hemenway D.
Source

Department of Health Services, UCLA School of Public Health, Los Angeles, California 90095-1772, USA. erin.richardson@gmail.com
Abstract
BACKGROUND:

Violent death is a major public health problem in the United States and throughout the world.
METHODS:

A cross-sectional analysis of the World Health Organization Mortality Database analyzes homicides and suicides (both disaggregated as firearm related and non-firearm related) and unintentional and undetermined firearm deaths from 23 populous high-income Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development countries that provided data to the World Health Organization for 2003.
RESULTS:

The US homicide rates were 6.9 times higher than rates in the other high-income countries, driven by firearm homicide rates that were 19.5 times higher. For 15-year olds to 24-year olds, firearm homicide rates in the United States were 42.7 times higher than in the other countries. For US males, firearm homicide rates were 22.0 times higher, and for US females, firearm homicide rates were 11.4 times higher. The US firearm suicide rates were 5.8 times higher than in the other countries, though overall suicide rates were 30% lower. The US unintentional firearm deaths were 5.2 times higher than in the other countries. Among these 23 countries, 80% of all firearm deaths occurred in the United States, 86% of women killed by firearms were US women, and 87% of all children aged 0 to 14 killed by firearms were US children.
CONCLUSIONS:

The United States has far higher rates of firearm deaths-firearm homicides, firearm suicides, and unintentional firearm deaths compared with other high-income countries. The US overall suicide rate is not out of line with these countries, but the United States is an outlier in terms of our overall homicide rate.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20571454
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby 82_28 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:35 am

operator kos wrote:Also, I'd like an explanation of something a number of people in this thread have said in one form or another... you just hate guns and wish they don't exist. Well, fine, but that's not a basis for developing social policy or law. I wish we rode unicorns instead of driving gas-guzzling cars. Your argument needs to start from reality. Even if guns didn't exist, and we forgot they ever existed, they would be invented again tomorrow. So given that, what do we do? Personally, as someone firmly in the libertarian-socialist quadrant of the political-economic spectrum, I believe in the diffusion of power. I'd rather everyone be able to have the power that guns grant than only a tiny political/military elite.


First off, fuck guns and the wagons they were carried on back when you don't realize they became "necessary". Before you pick up any gun, learn some history, yo. I bet you also think the "gold rushes" were all about accruing gold. BZZT. Wrong answer. It was about selling services and weak ass equipment. to for the most part a segment of immigrants who bought the bullshit. The lie of the gun industry and the NRA is that "they've always been around" and are somehow historical. No, they are not. Sure they got their history, but we are writing it now.
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby dbcooper41 » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:51 am

http://www.wral.com/warrant-texas-suspect-interested-in-cannibalism/12332195/

By JUAN A. LOZANO, Associated Press
HOUSTON — A man accused of stabbing more than a dozen people at a Houston-area
college told investigators that he had fantasized about cannibalism and
necrophilia and about cutting off people's faces and wearing them as masks,
according to a court document made public on Thursday.
Dylan Quick also told an investigator that he had researched mass stabbings on
his home computer about a week before the attack at Lone Star College in
Cypress, according to a search warrant affidavit.
"He stated that he had read numerous books about mass killings and serial
killers which are also located at his residence," the affidavit said.
Quick is being held without bond on three counts of aggravated assault with a
deadly weapon for Tuesday's attack that injured 14 people. Only one person
remained hospitalized Thursday, and that person was listed in good condition.
Quick's attorney, Jules Laird, said after a court hearing earlier Thursday that
he was still looking into his client's background. Laird said he didn't think
the 20-year-old had a history of mental illness. But he said Quick was on
suicide watch and will stay in jail as he undergoes a psychological evaluation.
"Not every question has an answer that satisfies you or that says this is the
root cause of why he did this ... with a knife. We are going to see if we can
reach that," Laird said.
The affidavit released later in the day named nine items that were seized from
Quick's home, including one listed as "Hanibal Lecter Mask." Hannibal Lecter is
the cannibalistic serial killer from the 1991 movie "The Silence of the Lambs."
Other items seized included a laptop, an animal dissection kit and several
books, including ones called "Hit List" and "Hitman." The affidavit does not say
what the books are about.
Laird had described Quick as a voracious reader who had thousands of books.
The affidavit said Quick told the investigator that in preparing for the campus
attack, he had sharpened various things, including a hairbrush and pencils, to
use as weapons. However, authorities have said Quick used only a razor utility
knife to slash at his victims on two floors of the college's health science
building. They said a scalpel was found in a backpack he was carrying when he
was arrested.
Authorities have said students tackled Quick and held him down outside the
building until police arrived. Texas does not permit people to carry handguns on
campuses, but lawmakers are considering allowing concealed permit holders to
take their weapons into college buildings and classrooms.
A Texas House panel approved such a bill Thursday, sending it to the full House.
Supporters say it's a self-defense measure that will help prevent campus
shootings and assaults. Opponents argue that allowing guns into campus buildings
increases the chances for violence.
Quick had been set to make his first court appearance Thursday, but Laird waived
the reading of the probable cause statement so his client would not have to be
in court. Quick's next hearing is May 10. If convicted, Quick faces up to 20
years in prison.
"We just didn't want to have a media circus at this point in time," Laird said.
When asked about claims by the Harris County Sheriff's Office that Quick
admitted to having fantasies about stabbing people since he was 8 years old,
Laird said, "They've got a statement from him, but that's not the whole story."
"There are other things that I need to find out about and then we will provide
the whole story to the public so that they can understand what happened," he
said.
Laird said Quick had been home-schooled for most of his life and that he had
been enrolled at Lone Star in part so he could be around other people and "get
some type of feel for what the rest of the world is like as opposed to just
living at home ... and being home-schooled by his mother."
Laird said Quick's parents hadn't had any major problems with their son, though
he did apparently go missing for a few days in January 2011.
Quick's parents had contacted Texas EquuSearch, a private Houston-area group
that searches for missing people, after getting a text message from their son
saying "he was leaving because he might possibly harm himself," said Frank
Black, a case adviser with the organization.
Black said he and others with his group were set to begin a search for Quick
when his parents contacted them three days after the initial report, saying they
had found their son and he was safe.
Quick had apparently been staying on the Lone Star college campus and some
security guards had given him food and a tent to sleep in, Black said.
Laird said Quick's parents are devastated by the accusations made against their
son.
Quick's mother is "the person that knows him more than anybody else in the
world. And so, what she knows of him does not fit with what happened (Tuesday).
She loves him dearly and his dad loves him dearly. And both of them do not
understand what happened," he said.
___
Associated Press writer Jim Vertuno in Austin, Texas contributed to this report.
:shrug:
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby operator kos » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:30 pm

82_28 wrote:Gun people are all nuts. Like seriously? It's a gun, chiefs and has no use in civilization. I have fucking grown up to the age of 38 not ever HAVING TO FUCKING USE ONE. Even though a shit ton of people have passed on in life. The only argument for guns is that they are necessary. No, no they are not. Fuck guns.


Thanks for your continued rational contributions to this discussion. :roll:
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby FourthBase » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:47 pm

Cross-posting from one thread that turned into a gun control debate to another:

How about: Tasers. Everywhere.
No, they are not totally non-lethal, they are capable of precipitating deaths.
But, on the whole, magnitudes safer than bullet-y guns.

Oh, except, one condition:
All law enforcement and military are limited to tasers, too.
Stun guns, tranquilizer rifles, phasers, etc.
No more bullets, though, ever made.

(Except for maybe, like, one SWAT sniper in each PD, in case a hostage is about to be killed, etc.?)


It's the kind of solution nobody likes, i.e., the best kind.
"But non-lethal weapons aren't effective in such-and-such situation!"
"But non-lethal weapons are still capable of killing, and...they're fascist!"
Meanwhile, the number of people dead from gunshots would've plummeted to, oh, "negligible".
So, what's important? What would actually have happened? Arming everyone? Disarming everyone?
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby operator kos » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:51 pm

compared2what? wrote:I'm not anti-gun either. I'm just anti-ridiculously-transparent-diversionary-issue-that-prevents-people-from-protecting-the-rights-they're-actually-in-some-danger-of-losing..


Newsflash: I've been arrested multiple times for standing up for my other rights and various social and economic justice issues. Just because I'm concerned about my right to defend myself doesn't mean I've magically forgotten about my other rights.

compared2what? wrote:Newsflash: Your rights don't include keeping whatever arms you want and bearing them wherever and whenever your heart desires. Does the gun you do own do whatever it is that you want to have a gun in order to do? If so, excellent. Stop complaining.


Every living being has a right to defend themselves. I work late at night in one of the worst neighborhoods of one of the most violent cities in the United States. There is a realistic possibility of my being attacked either by a group or an individual with a weapon. Since I don't have Hollywood-level kung-fu abilities, my only realistic chance of defending myself in such a scenario is to be carrying a pistol, which people are not legally allowed to do here. So I'd say that I actually have a very legitimate complaint.

compared2what? wrote:It's possible that those pointless restrictions might actually appear to have a point if you tried considering them in the context of everybody to whom they applied rather than that of their inapplicability to you, personally.


Nope, sorry. They were enacted by Dianne 1% Feinstein and other fear-mongering politicians who don't actually known jack shit about guns. A pistol grip or a telescoping stock are cosmetic features on a rifle which have ZERO impact on its lethality.

compared2what? wrote: Also: Nobody is taking your guns away. The restrictions on semi-automatic rifles that they're talking about were the law for years quite recently. They're toothless and easily side-steppable. And they might not even pass.


No, semi-automatic rifles are currently legal, but there is discussion of making them illegal. They might not pass is a sorry excuse for inaction. CISPA might not pass either, but you can bet your ass that I'm still hounding my representatives about it on a regular basis.

compared2what? wrote:I thought your first post was perfectly acceptable snark and undeserving of the pile-on, btw.


Well thanks.

compared2what? wrote:But there are plenty of regulations and restrictions on who can keep and bear what kind of car already.


You lose your license if you drive drunk and recklessly endanger other people. I'm fine with violent criminals losing their right to bear arms. You lose your own rights when you violate the rights of others as far as I'm concerned. But we don't make cars illegal just because a small minority of people use them irresponsibly or kill with them.
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Re: Texas campus mass stabbing event.

Postby operator kos » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:52 pm

FourthBase wrote:Cross-posting from one thread that turned into a gun control debate to another:

How about: Tasers. Everywhere.
No, they are not totally non-lethal, they are capable of precipitating deaths.
But, on the whole, magnitudes safer than bullet-y guns.

Oh, except, one condition:
All law enforcement and military are limited to tasers, too.
Stun guns, tranquilizer rifles, phasers, etc.
No more bullets, though, ever made.

(Except for maybe, like, one SWAT sniper in each PD, in case a hostage is about to be killed, etc.?)


It's the kind of solution nobody likes, i.e., the best kind.
"But non-lethal weapons aren't effective in such-and-such situation!"
"But non-lethal weapons are still capable of killing, and...they're fascist!"
Meanwhile, the number of people dead from gunshots would've plummeted to, oh, "negligible".
So, what's important? What would actually have happened? Arming everyone? Disarming everyone?


Again, I'm not sure what the point of this sort of post is. See my post about wanting to ride unicorns instead of drive cars.
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