Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 7:04 pm

I thought the Dorner thing was a precursor for this in many ways, btw.

If noticing the part of what I said that was on-topic is okay.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 7:32 pm

justdrew wrote:so if some of you think there is no room for debate, don't engage, but debate is foundational to the point of a forum
j

Yeah. But the reality is that my having a different opinion than the one being pushed by the alterna-conspiracy media is somehow always received as an intolerable failure to conform to acceptable non-conformist standards, no matter what I say, including when I'm suggesting that a conspiracy occurred. Which (believe it or not!) I sometimes do think and occasionally even dare to say, although -- tbh -- knowing that my thoughts are going to be received as just so much sheeple-bleating irrespective of what they are is a considerable disincentive to free self-expression. And independent thought, ftm.

I don't know. Truly as I can swear that if people stopped attacking me so unfairly that I couldn't resist responding to it, I'd stop responding -- it really is that simple! -- since they don't, who cares? It really does end up causing more trouble than it's worth. And however un-fucking-fair to me that may be, I can't really argue with it. .

It's painful. But what can you do? Life's not fair.
.



.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat May 18, 2013 7:33 pm

compared2what? wrote:
Canadian_watcher wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:As for the rest of your post, I'm not going to use this thread to exchange a slew of recriminations. ...

I personally often find your argumentative style tedious, debilitating and ultimately obfuscating to the subject at hand. I can't see how engaging in more and more quoted back and forth discussion with you can do anything but exacerbate this. ....

...

But here I am doing exactly the same thing that I am decrying. ... but posts like the one you just addressed to me basically make it almost impossible to forego dragging this discussion down to the level of a personal tit for tat.



and here *I* am adding to it, but since we're already so far down the road, I think it might be wise just to get to the end of it this time instead of turning around. So...

I agree with stickdog here, and want to point out something that has stuck in my craw for a long time:

See the last thing stickdog said, above? THAT is exactly the point. There are some people who, historically, have been seen as tireless defenders of the faith when they belabour points (and by this I mean points that aren't exactly germane to the thread OP) and then there are the rest of us. the rest of us, should we continue to 'defend' ourselves after a certain point are jumped on and warned. And so, this being the dynamic, many people just give up, don't fight back, let it go and leave the impression that there are people here who are 'always right' and who 'always win.' Sorry to name names, but c2w and barracuda are the primary suspects wrt those who can belabour and belittle with impunity.


Examples, or you're just throwing a rock then running away. I have no problem with being called out for what I do.

Show me where I instigated an off-topic dispute and then belabored my side of it. as opposed to "where I was insulted for my presumed reading habits, sheep-like conformity or political views when (a) nothing I'd said represented any of those things; and (b) the points I had made were being ignored, then objected when the person who hurled those rocks ran away without being helpful enough to me to show me where I'd erred."


Because if I have, I want to know. And if I haven't, you're out of line to name me and then scamper off. I don't do it to you. Or to anyone. It's not fair. Kafkasesqe, as a matter of fact.

Or you could just try not insulting me. If you did, I wouldn't have anything else to say.


I think stickdog and Mac already "showed you" where you belabored your side of it. I don't want to engage any more than I already have. Everyone knows what I'm talking about, including you, so I don't need to elaborate.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 8:34 pm

No they didn't. I have no idea what you're talking about. Where? Please show me.

Thanks.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sat May 18, 2013 8:48 pm

If Mac would have acknowledge that EVIDENCE pre-trial is NEVER supposed to be released to public media he wouldn't have had any problem, demanding to shown "proof" at this stage is pointless. "proof" will be determined in court.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat May 18, 2013 9:04 pm

compared2what? wrote:No they didn't. I have no idea what you're talking about. Where? Please show me.

Thanks.


okay..
right here, right now. Just forget it, would you?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby Canadian_watcher » Sat May 18, 2013 9:04 pm

justdrew wrote:If Mac would have acknowledge that EVIDENCE pre-trial is NEVER supposed to be released to public media he wouldn't have had any problem, demanding to shown "proof" at this stage is pointless. "proof" will be determined in court.


and THIS, too - other people needing to jump in. ffs
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sat May 18, 2013 9:09 pm

belaboring is in the eye of the beholder. It looks like rational debate to others.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 9:38 pm

Canadian_watcher wrote:
compared2what? wrote:No they didn't. I have no idea what you're talking about. Where? Please show me.

Thanks.


okay..
right here, right now. Just forget it, would you?


I didn't instigate it. You did. And I didn't insult you. You insulted me. So it's not really the best example of my bad behavior you could have come up with, from a teachable-moment perspective. Or, in fact, an example of it.

But okay. I'm sorry that when you attack me without cause then blame it on my objections after the fact, it makes you feel bullied.

That's the best I can do.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 9:51 pm

I'd really appreciate it if everyone could stop attacking and insulting me so unfairly that I couldn't resist responding for long enough to let me cancel my account, btw.

Not a day goes by. I keep having to put it on hold.

ON EDIT: That was serious, though joking in a funny-cause-it's-true way. But please respond via PM, if responding.

It really is more trouble than it's worth. And the thread it way off-topic. I don't make that happen, all on my own. But I apologize for my part of it.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sat May 18, 2013 10:17 pm

justdrew wrote:If Mac would have acknowledge that EVIDENCE pre-trial is NEVER supposed to be released to public media he wouldn't have had any problem, demanding to shown "proof" at this stage is pointless. "proof" will be determined in court.


Not if he pleads. So the skepticism itself isn't really unjustified. Besides...I don't know. AFAIC, he doesn't have to acknowledge anything. He just has to not coerce others into doing that. Whatever the case, I hope he comes back and that the deletion thing is a non-issue if he does, though. Starting right now, this second. I mean, if it's a crime to get mad and injudiciously say what you think, I'm as guilty as he is. Litigating it is tedious after a certain point. And we're both guilty there, too. As it happens.

My 2 cents, fwiw. Whoever prefers to throw away one of them can go ahead. But I still cop to the other, since that's mine to owe.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sat May 18, 2013 11:38 pm

justdrew wrote:so if some of you think there is no room for debate, don't engage, but debate is foundational to the point of a forum


Says the large, loud cheering section for "debate".

Next will appear another fan of "debate" eviscerating someone for not responding voluminously enough to another supposed point by point evisceration. And so it will go. And go. And go.

I choose to make my points once or perhaps twice. If that is not enough, then by all means let them be drowned in a sea of "debate" unless, on the rare occasion, my continued responses constitute anything but further dilution.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby stickdog99 » Sat May 18, 2013 11:48 pm

justdrew wrote:
stickdog99 wrote:
compared2what? wrote:Per Supreme Court opinions of many decades' standing, during the pre-trial phase, the DoJ -- including the FBI and federal prosecutors -- is constitutionally obligated to protect the defendant's sixth and fourteenth amendment rights by not parading all of its evidence against him/her in front of the public, via the media. The defense doesn't have to find out about it in the press, but actually gets to see it directly.

The public has a right to know what the disposition of the case was, and whether the process was lawful, and whether it was in accord with constitutional requirements, and so forth. But there is no inherent global public right for every member of it to review all the evidence prior to trial after it's been publicly served to them on a public silver platter. That would, in fact, be a violation of the constitution by the state. Not an observance of it.


Which is my point. Everything the spooks have "leaked" have been strategically meant to bolster the prosecution's case in both the court of law and the court of public opinion. They had no compunction about telling the press that the kid admitted everything to them and detailing his motives, even though this would ostensibly conflict with Supreme Court opinions of many decades' standing. But somehow, despite dozens of people on the prosecution's side having to have noticed it, and everybody involved in prosecuting the case having to have known about it for over 4 weeks (that is, if it actually existed 4 weeks ago), nobody saw fit to leak the most incriminating piece of evidence to the press.

Until a former FBI spokesperson broke the "scoop," that is.



well, this "former FBI spokesperson" has jeopardized the defendants right to a fair trial, and it's going to be even harder now to find a jury.


As if anything other than avoiding near term death has ever been or will ever be on the table, regardless of the kid's actual guilt or innocence.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby justdrew » Sat May 18, 2013 11:56 pm

well, he looks pretty damn guilty to this observer just based on what we do know. Now if you START at the assumption that EVERY cop, every member of 'the government' is lying about nearly everything, or that some elaborate Mission Impossible team staged all this theater, then... well... That sounds like epistemological surrender to me.
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Re: Two explosions at Boston marathon finish line

Postby compared2what? » Sun May 19, 2013 12:01 am

stickdog99 wrote:As if anything other than avoiding near term death has ever been or will ever be on the table, regardless of the kid's actual guilt or innocence.


Almost certainly true. And definitely capital "T" True. So I totally agree. The implications and inferences of that are where it gets complicated. (As I see just happened while I was typing.) But oh, wellr. Agree.
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