David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

[American Dream]

Don't you think that some people can be hallucinating, lying, deceived, delusional, misinterpreting things and/or batshit crazy?

If so, what about them?

Well, they can post all day on the web as one option.

it's funny, because one of the dangers that AD, brekin and MIB are 'warning us of' is that people who believe Icke (and by extension, I'm beginning to see, they include people who believe in any kind of non-scientifically provable entities including God) are going to wind up feeling so very jaded, cynical and helpless over it.

But I offer you, Norton Ash, to be exhibit A of the most incredibly cynical, disengaged and mean spirited human being who already DOES NOT believe in any non-scientifically provable entities I've ever encountered. So, there's one piece of evidence of the "helpless and cynical" theory up in flames. BPH is number two.

the people who have their minds closed* to possibilities that are currently inexplicable by our Science are the ones who seem the most resigned to "oh well, we're all dead and doomed and there's nothing we can do about it".

* edit: had to change open to closed, as it was clearly an error.

When faith in supernatural doctrines carries with it beliefs like you said earlier today about how bad it is that they teach the Nazi Holocaust, that David Icke's ideas about "Rothschild Zionism" are pretty ok and are not racist, it's then that I start to worry.

Priests and nuns who stand vigil all day at the School of the Americas are quite ok with me...

[norton ash]

But I offer you, Norton Ash, to be exhibit A of the most incredibly cynical, disengaged and mean spirited human being who already DOES NOT believe in any non-scientifically provable entities I've ever encountered. So, there's one piece of evidence of the "helpless and cynical" theory up in flames. BPH is number two.

Wow, talk about evidence-based judgments. I'm hardly mean-spirited, I'm just not fond of belligerent fools. Figures you'd think I was talking about you.

I'm a skeptical Gnostic who throws I Ching, has studied magic, and believes he may have seen UFOs and encountered ghosts, FYI.

[Canadian_watcher]

wow. who gives a fuck what you do on your off time if you make comments that imply the people posting here are idiots?

[Canadian_watcher]

When faith in supernatural doctrines carries with it beliefs like you said earlier today about how bad it is that they teach the Nazi Holocaust, that David Icke's ideas about "Rothschild Zionism" are pretty ok and are not racist, it's then that I start to worry.

Priests and nuns who stand vigil all day at the School of the Americas are quite ok with me...

I didn't say that it was bad THAT they teach the holocaust (and you know it) I said that it was bad THE WAY they teach it. A special assembly once a year that shows a propaganda film designed to instill disgust and fear and horror in young minds -- I mean I'm STILL ashamed of my German heritage, and it's like a 1/16 part of me. what the fuck is THAT???? Is that GOOD, in yoru opinion? Do you think somehow I would be ashamed of myself if I HADN'T been subjected to that movie and others like it?

Anyway you think I'm a neo nazi, so.. to quote Eminem,



i love eminem's music. yep. probably more proof.

[brekin]

CW wrote:

yes, AD, I think and often do that people are lying, deceived, delusional or batshit crazy.
it's called discernment that helps me to separate one from the other. Discernment includes but is not limited to the scientific method.

I'm curious how you discerned Icke's theories were plausible for you and he wasn't lying, deceived, delusional or batshit crazy? Were you won over by specific evidence or a compelling argument? I mean it helps to have an example of how this discernment works, and since this is a Icke thread and you've said you are open to his theory and not my lawn gnome conspiracy theory I'd like to know why his theory holds more water than mine? Icke's lizard ring cycle is basically a just-so story like my garden gnome one. Or was there something I didn't see in his material that would possibly sway me?

Also, just for the record. I am one of the biggest critics regarding Scientism and its priest hood and groupies. Science, used as an authority and progressive faith as Scientism pulls all kinds of bullshit that the scientific evidence doesn't support or tenuously. But when the Science works, it really works. It is repeatable, verifiable, predictive and measurable. In matters of whether there are lizard hybrids secretly controlling the world I think Science should lead the pack.

But in other matters, I trust my intuition. My intuition is telling me this thread is headed for a lock down.

[Canadian_watcher]

CW wrote:

yes, AD, I think and often do that people are lying, deceived, delusional or batshit crazy.
it's called discernment that helps me to separate one from the other. Discernment includes but is not limited to the scientific method.

I'm curious how you discerned Icke's theories were plausible for you and he wasn't lying, deceived, delusional or batshit crazy? Were you won over by specific evidence or a compelling argument? I mean it helps to have an example of how this discernment works, and since this is a Icke thread and you've said you are open to his theory and not my lawn gnome conspiracy theory I'd like to know why his theory holds more water than mine? Icke's lizard ring cycle is basically a just-so story like my garden gnome one. Or was there something I didn't see in his material that would possibly sway me?

Also, just for the record. I am one of the biggest critics regarding Scientism and its priest hood and groupies. Science, used as an authority and progressive faith as Scientism pulls all kinds of bullshit that the scientific evidence doesn't support or tenuously. But when the Science works, it really works. It is repeatable, verifiable, predictive and measurable. In matters of whether there are lizard hybrids secretly controlling the world I think Science should lead the pack.

But in other matters, I trust my intuition. My intuition is telling me this thread is headed for a lock down.

A - I hate it when people say a thread is headed for a lockdown without giving reasons.

B - I don't believe that there are reptilian aliens in the palace or anywhere else. BUT, I do understand the theory as a metphor, whether or not Icke thinks of it as one or not. I don't care at this point whether he does or doesn't - the overall message is to be fearless, to look into dark corners, and the challenge authority. All of those things resonate with me and with a lot of other people. Quite frankly, I think the world is lost to corporate rule if we don't do those three things with boldness and courage.

As to why it is different from your garden gnome theory, well because you haven't taken the time to construct an entire worldview around it - IE Icke has explained that to defeat his 'enemy' we can use our powers of perception and capability for love. You've just given me little ceramic men.

C - I agree wrt to your take on science. God it is so fantastic, but so corrupted.

[slimmouse]

the overall message is to be fearless, to look into dark corners, and the challenge authority. All of those things resonate with me and with a lot of other people. Quite frankly, I think the world is lost to corporate rule if we don't do those three things with boldness and courage.

As to why it is different from your garden gnome theory, well because you haven't taken the time to construct an entire worldview around it - IE Icke has explained that to defeat his 'enemy' we can use our powers of perception and capability for love. You've just given me little ceramic men.

If this thread does get locked after that, then the reptilians truly have won.

[American Dream]

wow. who gives a fuck what you do on your off time if you make comments that imply the people posting here are idiots?

So it's legitimate to believe in the reality of shapeshifting extradimensional reptilians but not to have noticed a human being who was said something stupid?

In a feel-good reality where every belief is equally valid and evidence doesn't matter so much, why not people saying and doing dumb things?

[slimmouse]

the overall message is to be fearless, to look into dark corners, and the challenge authority. All of those things resonate with me and with a lot of other people. Quite frankly, I think the world is lost to corporate rule if we don't do those three things with boldness and courage.

As to why it is different from your garden gnome theory, well because you haven't taken the time to construct an entire worldview around it - IE Icke has explained that to defeat his 'enemy' we can use our powers of perception and capability for love. You've just given me little ceramic men.

What are you giving AD?

[Project Willow]

This thread is headed for lockdown unless participants here cease making disruptive posts about each other, and return to discussing issues.

That means everybody.

C_W, unless someone says a post is about you, assume it isn't, or inquire, do not respond immediately with ad-hominens.

AD, it is perfectly adequate for you to state your opinions on the destructive nature of Icke's mythology without singling out other posters here about their beliefs. In fact, it's highly advisable, given that your focus on the presumed beliefs of others has resulted in a great deal of acrimony, and distraction from, rather than discussion of your concerns.

There are plenty of open doors and opportunities to repair existing rifts. I encourage all parties to embark upon that process, preferably via pm.

[Canadian_watcher]

wow. who gives a fuck what you do on your off time if you make comments that imply the people posting here are idiots?

So it's legitimate to believe in the reality of shapeshifting extradimensional reptilians but not to have noticed a human being who was said something stupid?

In a feel-good reality where every belief is equally valid and evidence doesn't matter so much, why not people saying and doing dumb things?

I'm not sure I follow, but where did I say that people can't do and say dumb things? they can! hooray!
Norton just did. hooray!

[Canadian_watcher]

willow, that is ridiculous. where did I mistakenly assume that a post was about me?

oh, and special note: please everyone pay attention to the fact that we've all given and received attacks without asking for a lockdown UNTIL norton Ash made an appearance.

If necessary I will document, going back two years, how many times that insensitive poster has done exactly the same thing: insulted the board or a specific poster and then cried to authority when his feelings were hurt.

boo hoo boo hoo. \
where's your honour and backbone, Norton? check for it, it's near your ass.

[barracuda]

well, i believe you are being remiss in not applying your normally deep and scathing critique to the showing of films of piles of emaciated dead bodies being heaped into ditches -- and the showing of this to impressionable children with no perspective and zero ability to process or ask questions about it.

And there were no parental consent forms ever sent home about this matter, to my knowledge, in Canada.

I was ten or eleven when I first saw Night and Fog, and I processed it. I remember it vividly. My daughter is nine, and she seems perfectly capable of making moral judgements. I discussed it with my parents and we talked about it among my friends. I think I saw it twice during elementary school. I thought you were a mother - did your daughter lack the ability to process the realities of war as a tweener? It's probably different for everyone. I processed it into the kernal of an anti-war attitude which I still possess.

I believe ten or so is a fine age to begin showing anti-war materials to children. Maybe even earlier, though I would probably suggest something like Watership Down rather than Night and Fog before the age of eight or so.

Remember when that teacher showed the video that purportedly shows Luca Magnotta engaged in necrophilia and dismemberment to his students? (you might not, it was a Canadian outrage)... well, that teacher got fired. BTW, this was done in a high school.

What's the difference?

We were also shown The Child Molester at that time. I wouldn't see the Magnotta document in the same light as either of these films, at all. There's very little reason for even an adult to watch Magnotta's disgusting narcissism in action. What is the lesson there?

[Canadian_watcher]

Just so that everyone knows, I have officially reported the following post (I hate doing this, but obviously we are in danger of being locked due to another poster reporting something that flowed DIRECTLY from the post below. ) Here is my report, followed by the original offensive post:

REPORT TO MODS:

norton is essentially saying that everyone posting on this thread "all day" is a mental case, a liar, deceived or delusional.

THAT IS WHY I GAVE HIM THE FUCKING SMACKDOWN, which ought to have been between him and I, but he's incapable of taking well deserved lumps without going crying to mommy and daddy.

SO, If you'd like to make it one sided then go ahead and be that way, but here's the post that started it. unprovoked, out of nowhere, blanket insult to EVERYONE (including me, Willow)

I'm going to post this on the thread, as well.

Don't you think that some people can be hallucinating, lying, deceived, delusional, misinterpreting things and/or batshit crazy?

If so, what about them?

Well, they can post all day on the web as one option.

[ShinShinKid]

1) To CW, films are not the only way to educate about the holocaust. My history of the holocaust class in college consisted of pouring through German documents about certain "final solutions", and the institutions set up to facilitate said solutions. I also said that I educated about many other "bad things" that have happened over the course of human history, and US history. You can ignore, and choose not to study history, that's your choice, but really, with writers like Herodotus, and Mark Twain, you could do worse.

2) To AD, I never said reptoid, sorry if that got in the way. Evidence is like badges, anyone can make'em! There's a confucian statement about the teacher lifting up one corner, and the students shouldn't come back without having lifted the other three. I'll PM you an annotated Bibliography, or I can post one here.