David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby psynapz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:58 pm

slimmouse » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:43 pm wrote:
Perhaps the kneejerk baby-bathwater reaction itself is the social change we need to create in order for the masses to come to understand the reality of conspiracy and what needs to change in order to improve the world?


Unquestionably one of the best quotes in this thread. When people who have so much in common are telling others to dissasociate themselves from anyone who has followed Icke ( by that I mean, read, seen or listened to him), then weve all failed at the very first hurdle.

Thanks slim. I feel that the practice of discernment without prejudice or attachment -- such that discernment is treated as an ongoing cyclic process rather than a linear once-through-then-concretize-and-move-on process -- is a skill that every individual needs to learn in order to grow and be effective as an agent of change.

Nobody can discern for you which parts of someone else's narrative should be held as true for you, and to assume you have the right to impose that upon someone else is absolutely a form of intellectual violence, and scaled up to the inter-cultural level it's often also manifested as physical violence. Just ask AD's Palestinian friends.
“blunting the idealism of youth is a national security project” - Hugh Manatee Wins
User avatar
psynapz
 
Posts: 1090
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2008 12:01 pm
Location: In the Flow, In the Now, Forever
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby DrEvil » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:59 pm

psynapz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:45 pm wrote:
DrEvil wrote:What's the point of wading through all the nonsense from Icke, just to get at a few nuggets of truth when there are plenty of people saying the same thing, but without shape-shifting lizards and moon-matrixes and two-dimensional mono-atomic gold?

What we need is mass-awareness. People pay attention to different things. We all have our different paths that led us here, for instance. Our journeys to this board are an incredible lesson in how to take what we have learned on our journeys to and through this place and feed it forward into constructive efforts to make things better.

If you already know about Icke's nuggets of truth, that's wonderful. You can't assume everyone else does, or that the path you took to gain those nuggets would be a feasible path for anyone else in particular.

Since the potential paths to nuggets of useful truths are innumerable, so too must be the messengers, such that the raising of awareness and organizing into action grows ever more geometrically. Here we prototype every day the sorting-out process of the edges and overlaps between the nuggets we each hold, and so too must every individual confronted with any aspect of the big lies that control and/or seek to control us all, regardless of where they first heard about it.

Though, I certainly must concede that I merely hope that's a realistic outlook.


Good point, and I agree that the "meta-message", if you will, of Icke is not bad in itself, I'm just having some serious trouble wrapping my head around all the (to me) nonsense that goes with it, and that's a big problem. As far as I'm concerned, most of what he claims is just patently absurd, so I'm not going to waste time trying to dig out the occasional smart thing he says.

A broken clock is still right twice a day, but you shouldn't use it for time-keeping.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 2837
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:04 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:50 pm wrote:Well, personally, CW, I buy books online for that precise reason. But along the lines of your thought experiment, here is my own:

AD: Hey, pal, what are you reading?

WR: This? It's Julius Evola's "Revolt Against the Modern World."

AD: Really? Were you aware that Julius Evola has been frequently accused of harboring racist and fascist views?

WR: Yep.

AD: So does that worry you?

WR: Nope.

AD: Well, it should.

WR: Well, it doesn't.

*both exit stage left*


That's what you've read here in this thread? Maybe you missed some parts then. Understandable.

To be accurate you'd have to add in several lines.

AD: If you do not disavow that book and all it stands for I'm going to have to assume that you support all of it.

WR: I am an adult and will decide that for myself.

AD: Some people, unfortunately, don't understand the intricate ways these sorts of propagandistic writings effect them.

WR: Yeah, well, I do. So move on. I'm not going to turn into a racist, and I'm not one.

AD: So you disavow everything in that book, yes or no?

WR: I can't answer that in those terms at this time.

AD: This is a problem - not just for you but for myself and possibly the good of the planet.

WR: Are you saying that i'm not smart enough to make this call for myself or that I'm already a racist but might not know it?

AD: No!

WR: What are you saying?

AD: I'm saying that you might unknowingly be perpetuating racism in the world.

-- now, I know you are just too cool for school, WR and you never even would have HAD that conversation, but others here respond differently than you do. So, with your moderator's hat on, is the above looking any different to you at all from your statement that "AD has repeatedly stated that he's not called anyone here an unwitting dupe or Neo Nazi sympathizer"
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby brekin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:06 pm

psynapz wrote:

Lizards or not, the message that we can collectively create powerful and democratic new realities to overcome a seemingly-insurmountable totalitarian global power structure is undeniably superior to the message that the system works and to please stay within the established mainstream bounds of sensibility when discussing it.


Your never going to get anywhere handing out pictures of lizard-human global elite hybrids. What seems to be lost on some is that many, many prefer the current big lie, to Icke's bigger lie. And you can't dismiss lizards and Icke, that is the message. End of story. Everything else, whether true or groundbreaking and probably pulled from elsewhere, he just marbles into the lizard epic.

If you expect people to just roll with the lizard narrative as a minor thing, metaphor, etc your basically telling people to stop thinking and believe another fairy tale. Not a good way to get people to change things.
If I knew all mysteries and all knowledge, and have not charity, I am nothing. St. Paul
I hang onto my prejudices, they are the testicles of my mind. Eric Hoffer
User avatar
brekin
 
Posts: 3202
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2007 5:21 pm
Blog: View Blog (1)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby brainpanhandler » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:07 pm

DrEvil » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:59 pm wrote:
psynapz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:45 pm wrote:
DrEvil wrote:What's the point of wading through all the nonsense from Icke, just to get at a few nuggets of truth when there are plenty of people saying the same thing, but without shape-shifting lizards and moon-matrixes and two-dimensional mono-atomic gold?

What we need is mass-awareness. People pay attention to different things. We all have our different paths that led us here, for instance. Our journeys to this board are an incredible lesson in how to take what we have learned on our journeys to and through this place and feed it forward into constructive efforts to make things better.

If you already know about Icke's nuggets of truth, that's wonderful. You can't assume everyone else does, or that the path you took to gain those nuggets would be a feasible path for anyone else in particular.

Since the potential paths to nuggets of useful truths are innumerable, so too must be the messengers, such that the raising of awareness and organizing into action grows ever more geometrically. Here we prototype every day the sorting-out process of the edges and overlaps between the nuggets we each hold, and so too must every individual confronted with any aspect of the big lies that control and/or seek to control us all, regardless of where they first heard about it.

Though, I certainly must concede that I merely hope that's a realistic outlook.


Good point, and I agree that the "meta-message", if you will, of Icke is not bad in itself, I'm just having some serious trouble wrapping my head around all the (to me) nonsense that goes with it, and that's a big problem. As far as I'm concerned, most of what he claims is just patently absurd, so I'm not going to waste time trying to dig out the occasional smart thing he says.

A broken clock is still right twice a day, but you shouldn't use it for time-keeping.



As far as I'm concerned, most of what he claims is just patently absurd, so I'm not going to waste time trying to dig out the occasional smart thing he says.


And therein lies a problem if people reject the nuggets because they are associated with the crazy. I don't know why I am typing this. It's been said over and over. And it's not that big a problem really. It's not like Icke is driving thousands upon thousands of otherwise curious people away from the truth.
"Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Martin Luther King Jr.
User avatar
brainpanhandler
 
Posts: 5029
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:38 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:08 pm

Mason I Bilderberg » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:16 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:40 am wrote:
American Dream » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:30 am wrote:OK, done. I'm going to ask the help of others that we do the best we can to help keep the focus on real subtantive issues and avoid doing things that will be destructive to the board.

Taking a break now, for my own mental health...


Well, there you have it. You cannot answer a simple Yes/No question. That pretty much speaks for itself, doesn't it? Do I really need to explain to the board what has just happened here?


Screen Shot 2013-07-09 at 1.10.02 PM.png


"You have the right to remain silent. Should you choose to remain silent, your silence shall be used against you as an admission of guilt."


Interesting that you approach conversation as some sort of apprehension and detention.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby slimmouse » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:08 pm

As far as I'm concerned, most of what he claims is just patently absurd, so I'm not going to waste time trying to dig out the occasional smart thing he says.



I would say thats the same for just about every other serious atheist you might care to meet.

If your refferring to his sources meanwhile,then lets be very clear, its not Icke that saying it.
Last edited by slimmouse on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
slimmouse
 
Posts: 6129
Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 7:41 am
Location: Just outside of you.
Blog: View Blog (3)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby The Consul » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:10 pm

It is the standard Paddy Chayevski speech "we're mad as hell and we're not going to take it anymore.' What is there to disagree with, not much. Normally, I avoide entering into any conversation that has to do with Mr. Icke. I usually avoid talking about anyone or there substantive claims who has openly said that he is a channel for the Christ spirit. I regard Mr. Icke no more seriosuly than I regard Bennie Hinn. I suppose if Iisten to him long enough he might say something I could not disagree with, but I would never accept anything as truth because he said it; quite the contrary.

Someone who can gather a crowd to boisterously denounce the Bildebergers, surely, must have something going on! Yes, indeed he does....but sad to say that whatever indictment Mr. Ickes makes can all too easily be manipulated by the likes of Henri de Casties. Any coherent criticism of the Bildebergers and now be dismissed with "you sound like David Icke. Next you will be asking me to pull down my trousers to see how many penises I have."

I have a young neighbor who regularly regales me with Ickeisms whenever Iam trying to spend time with the living things outside my home. He is high functioning Asbergers and sadly has taken on Icke and Jones with a disturbing level of obsession. Sometimes it is humorous, other times a depressing tragedy. He cannot carry on what most of us would call an "ordinary conversation." He cannot process your comments whether you agree or not. I have problems with ordinary conversation myself. Wondering if perhaps I am a lizardly alien, but that is another matter best taken up with a return to gestalt therapy.

Myself, I seem to be able to filter out the absolute bullshit from the ordinary bullshit. It leaves much less behind than one desires, and it is close enough to the truth that it avoids all arguement or intellectual aspersion. If personality is like a cell wall for the protection of the psyche and the advancement and interaction with reality, it does well to filter out the wiley magicians, regardless of creed, who use our minds as mirrors.
" Morals is the butter for those who have no bread."
— B. Traven
User avatar
The Consul
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Ompholos, Disambiguation
Blog: View Blog (13)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:13 pm

compared2what? wrote:
That would be derelict if anybody had called you an anti-Semite. But nobody did. So it's effectively a "When did you stop beating your wife?" way of accusing AD, brekin, and MiB of doing something antagonistic and offensive to you that none of them did. And like most people, they probably don't respond any better to feeling like they're being unfairly accused of bad and hateful practices than you do.

You can understand that, right?


oh my dear. Of course little cw can undewstand you big words and compwex ideas!

Can you understand that your post can be turned around and aimed DIRECTLY at the people who originally posted that fucking stupid graphic which I then took and edited into a parody of itself?

At least you got how offensive and stupid it was and explained why. But you seem to be blind to the fact that I was making YOUR point TO them.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby compared2what? » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:16 pm

slimmouse » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:43 pm wrote:
Perhaps the kneejerk baby-bathwater reaction itself is the social change we need to create in order for the masses to come to understand the reality of conspiracy and what needs to change in order to improve the world?
it

Unquestionably one of the best quotes in this thread. When people who have so much in common are telling others to dissasociate themselves from anyone who has followed Icke ( by that I mean, read, seen or listened to him), then weve all failed at the very first hurdle.


Telling people to dissociate themselves from anything they're free to associate themselves with is, per se, not a thing anyone's entitled to do.

Making a strong argument that something they're associated with has such serious and inherent problems and pitfalls that the whole shebang is compromised to the point that continued association is self-defeating and maybe dangerous to people of good will isn't exactly the same thing, though.

I mean, tbh, one of the reasons I don't make that argument in relation to Icke is because you've said many times that encountering his work was very nearly a salvation for you, in personal terms. And it's always seemed totally clear to me both that you were sincere about that and that you weren't a hater -- ie, that it was genuinely first-order helpful without being first-order harmful.

But that's not to say I don't have real problems with it, or that I might not want to reserve the right to get into a brawl with you about some (imo) mistaken idea that drifted in via the association, or [etc.] That could definitely happen someday. It wouldn't be intended as hostile or dictatorial on my part if it did, though.

I honestly don't think AD intends anything different.
“If someone comes out of a liquor store with a weapon and 50 dollars in cash I don’t care if a Drone kills him or a policeman kills him.” -- Rand Paul
User avatar
compared2what?
 
Posts: 8383
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 6:31 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:17 pm

The Consul » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:10 pm wrote: Any coherent criticism of the Bildebergers and now be dismissed with "you sound like David Icke. Next you will be asking me to pull down my trousers to see how many penises I have.".


love ya, Consul, but that argument is one of my pet peeves.

If you are dealing with someone who will throw out a whole bunch of ideas based on someone they don't like having said them well then you're dealing with someone that's lost. Lost.

You are also handing a great tool to the Powers That Be. (They already have it, I know.) But you are perpetuating the ease with which "they" can bury the truth in front of our faces.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:19 pm

Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:04 pm wrote:WR: Are you saying that i'm not smart enough to make this call for myself or that I'm already a racist but might not know it?

AD: No!

WR: What are you saying?

AD: I'm saying that you might unknowingly be perpetuating racism in the world.


That's a pretty astute summary right there.

I think you nailed it and yeah, still, I don't see the need for intervention there.
User avatar
Wombaticus Rex
 
Posts: 10474
Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 6:33 pm
Location: Vermontistan
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby American Dream » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:21 pm

Here's what I said to CW, which really does reflect my position:

American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:17 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 pm wrote:AD, Mason I Bilderberg, Brekin:

Do you believe that I am an anti-semite or not?


I believe that working seriously on one's thinking about race, class, ethnicity, religion, oppression, and liberation is almost always of benefit and I have seen no indication that you want to perpetuate oppression. I don't think you believe anti-Semitism is a good thing but it still could be good to work some on these issues.



Over and out!
American Dream
 
Posts: 19946
Joined: Sat Sep 15, 2007 4:56 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:30 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:19 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:04 pm wrote:WR: Are you saying that i'm not smart enough to make this call for myself or that I'm already a racist but might not know it?

AD: No!

WR: What are you saying?

AD: I'm saying that you might unknowingly be perpetuating racism in the world.


That's a pretty astute summary right there.

I think you nailed it and yeah, still, I don't see the need for intervention there.


whatever Dude. You want to tell 4 of us that our perceptions of this situation are wrong, then do it bro.
oh lookie, you did already.
so maybe what I'm asking is not for intervention but maybe you could STOP intervening by openly taking one side over the other.
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: David Icke: Methods Of A Madman

Postby Canadian_watcher » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:33 pm

American Dream » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:21 pm wrote:Here's what I said to CW, which really does reflect my position:

American Dream » Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:17 pm wrote:
Canadian_watcher » Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:56 pm wrote:AD, Mason I Bilderberg, Brekin:

Do you believe that I am an anti-semite or not?


I believe that working seriously on one's thinking about race, class, ethnicity, religion, oppression, and liberation is almost always of benefit and I have seen no indication that you want to perpetuate oppression. I don't think you believe anti-Semitism is a good thing but it still could be good to work some on these issues.



Over and out!


I wish you were over and out.
STOP telling me ANYTHING that has to do with my ability to understand racism, okay?

STOP DIAGNOSING ME AS HAVING SOME SORT OF DISABILITY WHEN IT COMES TO UNDERSTANDING RACE, ETHNICITY, RELIGION, OPPRESSION AND LIBERATION AND STOP IMPLYING THAT i'M UNWITTINGLY PERPETUATING OPPRESSION AND SORT OF HELPING ANTI-SEMITES BY NOT BEING SENSITIVE ENOUGH ABOUT IT.

GOT IT?
Satire is a sort of glass, wherein beholders do generally discover everybody's face but their own.-- Jonathan Swift

When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him. -- Jonathan Swift
User avatar
Canadian_watcher
 
Posts: 3706
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:30 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: DrEvil and 12 guests