Michelle Alexander: "Zimmerman Mindset" Endangers Young Black Lives With Poverty, Prison & Murder
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/7/17/m ... gers_young
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by American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 12:41 pm
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:05 pm
Stop Doing the Vicious Work of the Ruling Class
I offered some brief thoughts about Obama's disgusting and profoundly offensive comments regarding the Zimmerman verdict here. In thinking about the trial and verdict -- and, of much more significance, the overwhelming amount of commentary offered by almost everyone about this case -- I realized some additional remarks of my own are merited. In particular, there is one significant issue that I haven't seen sufficiently addressed elsewhere.
As I occasionally feel compelled to do when I discuss subjects of this kind, allow me to establish my general perspective. I have written extensively about the vicious and pervasive racism that permeates every aspect of life in the United States. As just two examples out of many more, see "Racist Nation" and "Are You Now, or Have You Ever Been ... a Racist?" The second article is titled in that manner because I was addressing the charges of racism leveled by many people against anyone who dared to criticize Obama during the 2008 election. Because I wrote a number of essays exposing the numerous lies and frauds that the Obama candidacy represented, some people accused me of being a racist. In view of my extensive writing on this subject, the accusation was shockingly unjust.
I've also emphasized repeatedly that racism is sickeningly alive and well in the United States today. From the War on Drugs (see here and here), to the War on Terror and U.S. foreign policy in general (and in every particular), as well as in the countless ways that systemic racism finds expression in our everyday lives -- from the jobs that are available to us, to housing, to education, to everything else -- racism remains a critical foundational element of our existence. The truth of this issue has been hopelessly confused and sabotaged by the election and reelection of Obama. Because he desired power, because he wanted to be the most powerful man in the world as the head of the most murderously powerful nation on earth, Obama ran as a white man. As I have stated: "All this means that it is Obama himself who has adopted the white racist framework. Yes, I repeat that: Obama has adopted the white racist framework with regard to every issue of importance."
The lie of the Obama presidency has confounded this issue almost beyond the point of reclamation. (A perusal of "Obama's Whitewash," which analyzes Obama's widely-praised speech on race, provides a primer on how this monumental lie took hold.) A lie so overwhelming in its significance and reach makes accurate analysis of virtually any subject all but impossible. The Zimmerman case fell into this cauldron of lies, confusion and dishonest agendas. It is not surprising in the least that it is enormously difficult to find sensible commentary about it.
With this as background, I state the following. While I did not follow the case very closely, I think I know enough of the critical facts to form basic judgments about it. If I had been on the Zimmerman jury, I would have voted not guilty. In an article rare for its coherence on this subject, Ta-Nehisi Coates says the same thing:
In trying to assess the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, two seemingly conflicted truths emerge for me. The first is that based on the case presented by the state, and based on Florida law, George Zimmerman should not have been convicted of second degree murder or manslaughter. The second is that the killing of Trayvon Martin is a profound injustice.
That is exactly right, and his reasoning deserves your attention.
Keep in mind an obvious point that is often forgotten: not guilty does not mean innocent. Zimmerman is certainly guilty of following, and probably of stalking, Martin in an entirely unjustified manner. He may well be guilty of being a vicious racist himself; some facts suggest that, but others do not. In terms of what happened that night, it is undeniably true that, had Zimmerman not acted as he did, the tragedy would not have occurred. In that sense, Zimmerman was the prime mover in connection with Martin's death.
None of that changes the fact Zimmerman was not proved guilty of the crimes with which he was charged. As Coates discusses (and as others have also pointed out), to prove Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the State would have had to prove that, in the final moments of their confrontation, Zimmerman had no reasonable fear that he was in serious danger. Given the fragmented, sometimes contradictory accounts from the few witnesses to that confrontation, there was never any chance that the State could meet that burden. Therefore, Zimmerman is not guilty of these particular crimes -- although he may nonetheless be guilty of being an entirely rotten human being who exhibited extremely poor (and possibly hideously motivated) judgment.
When laid out in this manner, the case is actually very straightforward. But now consider the purposes for which the right and left have appropriated it. (I use "right" and "left" in the broad sense in which those terms are commonly understood.) The right loses no opportunity to argue that, while racism (and slavery) were terrible evils in this country's history, slavery is long gone, and racism is no more. If their assertions are challenged, they will ultimately resort to saying (with exclamation points): "But we have a black President! Who was reelected! Racism must be dead!" This is only one of the hideously deformed results of the monumental lie that Obama embodies. The right has no wish (and perhaps no ability) to understand that Obama fashioned himself into the whitest man in America, precisely so he could wield power on an incalculable scale. And Obama is notably more vicious in the exercise of that power than the white man who preceded him in that office. Nor is the right in the least concerned with what Michelle Alexander calls "The New Jim Crow," just as they evince no understanding whatsoever of the numerous ways in which racism remains embedded in the structure of this country, as well as in the fabric of its everyday life. Similarly, they strenuously deny that racism lies at the root of U.S. foreign policy.
For the right, the Zimmerman verdict represents the triumph of "colorblind justice." Even if that were true, it is certainly not true that race had nothing to do with this case, as the right also contends. Many on the right endlessly repeat that Zimmerman is not white himself, and use this fact to argue that the left's entire "narrative" is wrong. But as Coates concludes:
When you have a society that takes at its founding the hatred and degradation of a people, when that society inscribes that degradation in its most hallowed document, and continues to inscribe hatred in its laws and policies, it is fantastic to believe that its citizens will derive no ill messaging.
It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended. To expect our juries, our schools, our police to single-handedly correct for this, is to look at the final play in the final minute of the final quarter and wonder why we couldn't come back from twenty-four down.
The right is intent on using the Zimmerman case to prove that racism is no longer a force of any consequence in the U.S., that racism played no part in this tragedy, and that America at its core is truly good and just. All of that is not simply a lie, but a lie that disregards every fact of consequence in our history, and every fact that matters today. (For the record, I do not view it as possible that this is ever an innocent lie in any respect.)
The left's central crime in this affair is to have made the Zimmerman case an enormous cause in the first place. The analysis of the case I offer above was entirely available to anyone who paid any attention to this case almost from the beginning. This is a case that should never have been brought. While I agree with Coates' perspective, his level-headed approach is very rare for commentary from the left. What is most revealing about the left's treatment is what they refuse to discuss. With rare exceptions, they will not acknowledge the racism that lies at the heart of U.S. foreign policy, to which Obama is as fully committed as any of his predecessors. In fact, with his vast expansion of the Special Operations forces' operations, with his forays into Africa and the Far East -- to say nothing of the Obama administration's unceasing interference in the Middle East -- Obama has reinvigorated America's drive to global hegemony in ways that earlier presidents can only envy. In the same way, the left frequently refuses to admit the racism that undergirds the War on Drugs, which Obama continues with sickening zeal. And Obama's views on a wide range of issues perfectly mirror those of the white ruling class (see this for a more minor, but still nauseating, example).
While the right trumpets that racism must be dead, the left answers criticisms like mine with: "How can Obama be racist? He's black, for God's sake!" These are ridiculously stupid and ill-informed judgments. Their purpose is not to advance the truth, for they have nothing to do with the truth. Instead, the purpose of such claims is to strengthen tribal identity. (See "Learning to Hate 'The Other'" for a discussion of the dynamics of tribes in general, and of the formation of political tribes in particular.) It was to advance and inflame tribal cohesiveness that Obama interceded in the Martin case in the first instance, with his proclamation that: "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." It was a disgustingly irresponsible statement. Its obvious, desired effect was to make people think: "Oh, my God! Zimmerman killed Obama's son!" So much for letting justice take its course unimpeded, in the absence of undue influence.
Obama seems to have a penchant for this kind of meddling. See this story from a few days ago, about the many problems certain of Obama's comments have created in the efforts to pursue those who may have committed sexual assaults in the military. Obama's remarks were a boon to defense lawyers, who can seize on them as "unlawful command influence." The man is an exceedingly dangerous menace in every area he touches, which is every area. My own view is that Obama simply didn't care that his statement might cause endless problems in the military cases. He loves wielding the enormous powers he has. He wanted absolute power, and now he has it, since he claims the "right" to murder anyone he chooses. And he loves every minute of it.
The demonstrations against the Zimmerman verdict continue, as the tribes play out their chosen roles. The demonstrations concern a case which should not have been brought, and which cannot support the constructions the right and left have placed on it. Meanwhile, wouldn't all those energies be far better directed if, for example, they were targeted against U.S. foreign policy? Or against the War on Drugs? Or against what is almost certainly the already irreversible rise of the surveillance state? But no: the right and left have learned their parts very well. All the arguments they need have been prefabricated, ready to be hauled out whenever the signal is given.
The Zimmerman case is yet another in an endless series of distractions. It is another bauble to be tossed around by the ever-busy writers and "activists" of this country's political factions. It is a means of fragmenting and splitting the people's political power, which would be far more meaningful -- and far more powerful -- if the warring factions could only be motivated to form strategic alliances. All those energies are safely directed into a non-threatening pathway -- while the ruling class continues to consolidate and expand its power over every one of us. To the extent the right and left play their parts with such enthusiasm, they do the ruling class's bidding. Most of those on the right and the left have enthusiastically placed themselves in service to the State, and the majority of them have no understanding whatsoever of their grievous failing.
At this point, I almost feel it's beside the point to blame the ruling class for this kind of thing. (Note: I continue to blame and condemn the ruling class without mercy.) What appalls me is how easy it is to distract the American public with incidents like this. Most Americans have been trained very thoroughly. The bell is rung, and they eagerly run to their designated positions. While they are entirely consumed with playing their meaningless roles in the affair of the moment, they pay no heed to the hell that is rising around them.
They'll finally recognize that hell soon enough, but only when it is far too late to do anything to stop it. From that perspective, I can certainly agree that the Trayvon Martin case is a terrible tragedy. But it not only the tragedy of one life ended far too soon. It is the ongoing tragedy of this nation, as it plummets into the nightmare from which there is no awakening.
by slimmouse » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:25 pm
According to documents obtained by Judicial Watch, it has also been revealed that AG Eric Holder’s Department of Justice (DOJ) secretly spent thousands in federal tax dollars in order to prop-up ‘Trayvon support demonstrations in Sanford last year, which contributed to politically charging and injecting race into the case.
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:27 pm
by slimmouse » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:29 pm
I guess its time to check the details. Thanks for the important caveat.
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:31 pm
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 2:38 pm
Judicial Watch: Obama and Holder's 'Racial Extremism' Behind Zimmerman Trial
SUBMITTED BY Miranda Blue on Friday, 7/12/2013 2:46 pm
As Dave Weigel writes today, the right-wing media’s newest race-baiting theory around the George Zimmerman trial is that the Department of Justice organized the rallies calling for justice after Trayvon Martin’s death. This theory is based on documents “unearthed” by the right-wing Judicial Watch that don’t say what Judicial Watch says they do.
But the theory fits right in to the Right’s preferred narrative of the Zimmerman trial, so it’s stuck. In an interview with NewsMax radio host Steve Malzberg yesterday, Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton predicted that if Zimmerman is acquitted of murdering Martin, the Justice Department will then go after him. “Given the racial extremism of this president and this Justice Department, not only Mr. Holder and his civil rights division, it wouldn’t surprise me,” he said.
“There’s nothing neutral about this Justice Department…when it comes to race matters,” Malzberg said.
Malzberg: There’s nothing neutral about this Justice Department, and we’ve heard that from people who have worked, career Justice employees, when it comes to race matters. We’re talking to Tom Fitton, Judicial Watch president, here on the Steve Malzberg show. And let me ask you this, and I’m just asking your opinion, obviously. If there’s an acquittal in the Zimmerman trial, I think certainly, at least legally speaking, the door is still open for the Justice Department to pursue him with civil rights violations. And do you believe that that would be the case?
Fitton: Well, I don’t know, because, I would be very worried if I were Mr. Zimmerman, because we’ve also asked for documents from the Justice Department civil rights division, and we’ve gotten back, saying, the proverbial hand to the face, saying, ‘No, these are documents created for law enforcement purposes.’ So it seems like there has been, at least at one point, an active investigation. And, you know, given the racial extremism of this president and this Justice Department, not only Mr. Holder and his civil rights division, it wouldn’t surprise me. If I were betting, I’d bet they would try to do something, yes.
Malzberg: Yes, especially to quell what unfortunately, almost universally, experts, especially down in Sanford, Florida, and many others around the country, are expecting will be a horrific reaction on the streets of Sanford, of Miami and possible of other cities around the country. So, like you say, you know, I wouldn’t want to be George Zimmerman in any way, shape, or form, with this Justice Department and with this state prosecution, which is obviously politically motivated.
- See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/j ... 9GVYK.dpuf
For the Far-Right, the Real Victims of the Trayvon Martin Case are White People
SUBMITTED BY Brian Tashman on Monday, 4/9/2012 4:15 pm
White conservative commentators have looked into the Trayvon Martin case and many have seem to concluded that the real victim is not Martin, but white people who are now that targets of racism from black people, President Obama in particular.
Sandy Rios of the American Family Association last week on her radio show claimed that whites are the new victims of racism:
I said the other day, I just hate this phrase, ‘I have black friends.’ I know that it’s true; I know that black men are singled out and it is horrific, and I know that blacks have suffered tremendous racism. But I think now it’s getting to be where many whites are feeling more the victim now with the press going the way that it is and things going the way they are, so it’s stirring up lots of trouble.
Channeling Richard Land of the Southern Baptist Convention, who said President Obama “poured gasoline on the racialist fires” by using the Martin shooting to “gin up the black vote,” Roger Hedgecock in WorldNetDaily compares Obama to Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan and accuses him of inciting racism against whites:
Obama maintains black-voter support by signaling that white racism is holding him back, preventing him from accomplishing everything he promised. It’s the oldest excuse for black failure. And it is the gateway to the “payback time” mentality of too many young black males – a mentality that is claiming lives all across the U.S. today.
…
In schools, in colleges, in courtrooms and in too many workplaces, white Americans are feeling the “payback time” attitude of too many black Americans.
Obama has tolerated and even encouraged black triumphalism, played to the black grievance culture and encouraged the “payback time” mentality.
American voters pinned their hopes for racial healing on Barack Obama. They got Louie Farrakhan instead.
Not to be outdone, Judicial Watch founder Larry Klayman dubs Obama a “racist, black-Muslim sympathizer and Jew-and-white hater” who is “the biggest and most evil whore of all”:
No one would ever doubt that the likes of the so-called Revs. Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson and the media hacks of MSNBC would use this unfortunate incident to whip up racial divide and hatred for their own monetary benefit, but to see our president join in the chorus of exploitative white haters underscores just how low their whoredom has sunk. Obama's vocal and loud endorsement of Trayvon Martin as a boy he would like to have sired sent a message to the nation and the world — much like his offensive threatening statements about the sovereignty of the Supreme Court — that he does not respect the rule of law and that he, as the nation's fuehrer, can decide for the rest of us who is guilty and who is innocent. And, true to his black-Muslim leanings and associations, President Obama refused to, as is the correct approach, keep his mouth shut so as not to influence law-enforcement authorities or any eventual jury. Instead, he improperly used his office to judge for himself, and then broadcast, who caused the sad death of this young boy.
…
So, once again, Obama has shown his true colors; he is a racist, black-Muslim sympathizer and Jew-and-white hater himself. For this, with all of the whoredom on display in the last weeks, he wins the prize for the biggest and most evil whore of all.
We live in a dangerous world, and our president is making it even more perilous. He is playing a key role in fomenting racial and religious hatred and undermining our democracy and our nation's security by endorsing terrorist groups like the Muslim Brotherhood and consistently allowing the Islamic republic of Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. The Founding Fathers are rolling over in their graves, and we may soon join them — particularly given the Iranian mullahs' vows to use these weapons to wipe not only the state of Israel but all infidels, Jews and Christians alike, off the face of the earth — according to the Islamic will of Allah!
- See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/f ... 7jSR1.dpuf
Duped: Judicial Watch Hoaxes Media on Zimmerman Trial
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SMOKING GUN, GOP STAFFERS CAUGHT CREATING PHONY TRAVEL RECORDS ATTIBUTED TO THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT
FOIA Docs GOP Travel, Not “Justice Department”
By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor
GOP Bills Smear Campaign as “Research”
There was a smell about the Zimmerman case. We wondered why the Federalist Society, known for orchestrating the 2000 stolen election, crushing 9/11 investigations and lawsuits and acting as the primary proponents of government spying were so interested in the killing of a 17 year old in Florida.
Veterans Today has caught the GOP, Judicial Watch and the Heritage Foundation falsifying, redacting and misrepresenting government documents to rig a murder trial, to smear the Justice Department and forward a “police state” agenda.
There is no doubt that the fraud exposed below, one intended to foment racial strife and and violence was also intended to rig the Zimmerman trial to ensure a “not guilty” verdict.
What Florida resident, serving on a jury, would convict someone when told the Justice Department had sent down agents to start riots and protests? Problem is, there were no “Justice Department” agents, only GOP staffers bilking taxpayers into footing the bill for “dirty tricks.”
This is the link to the documents the media says prove the Justice Department was involved in orchestrating protests to interfere with the Zimmerman murder trial:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/153443929/Tampa-Intraregional
There is no doubt jurors were exposed to this fraud, one that should have led to a mistrial or even now, a “set aside verdict.” Then again, why would an American political party, one in rapid decline, expose themselves to criminal prosecution.
Toward that end, it would be nice if the General Accounting Office would actually do their job for a change without having to be forced through endless civil suits.
DUPED
What a cursory read will show is that these were redacted, not by those issuing the documents, however.
What Judicial Watch failed to redact was that the travel they are saying was the Justice Department was actually the Congressional Research Service, travel done at the request of the Republican majority in the House.
This is the same group that has tried to use their own travel, their own documents to attack Attorney General Holder.
More than that, documents show that staffers were on Republican Party business, and met with Republican National Committee leaders, not as stated on the vouchers, clear evidence of fraud, but to plan attacks on the administration using their own falsified docs as “proof.”
HERITAGE FOUNDATION/JUDICIAL WATCH FRAUD
The two groups found to have planned this fraud are the Heritage Foundation, an extremist “pro-police state” think tank and “Judicial Watch,” a misnamed GOP front group.
Billing political travel is a felony.
Working for a political party while on the US Government payroll is also a felony.
Organizing these felonies is “conspiracy,” also a felony.
BUILDING LEGAL PRECEDENTS
The Federalist Society was formed to create legal precedents to allow government assassinations, rigged elections, false flag terrorism and to erode the rights of American citizens.
The Zimmerman trial is classic.
The “Castle Doctrine,” the policy enacted in many states that allows an individual to defend their homes or lives without requiring “flight,” was overturned by the Zimmerman “not guilty” decision.
More simply put, if you are shopping, being followed by an armed stranger who follows you to your car in a lonely areas of a parking lot, you, prior to “Zimmerman” had the right to feel both “accosted” and “menaced.”
Now, if you confront a stalker, a robber or even a mob hitman, he can claim self defense even if he has cornered you and has threatened your life.
The door is now open to arrest any American that defends their home or refuses to submit to any armed stranger.
Fighting back when trapped and confronted is now not allowed. You think this was an accident, that a seemingly unimportant shooting case where, low and behold, the father of the accused killer is a powerful former judge and political figure, has been used by NWO extremists such as the Federalists, Judicial Watch or the Heritage Foundation, not to mention the GOP?
ICC STRIPPED OF “WAR CRIMES” POWERS
More recently, the Federalist Society has manipulated the International Criminal Court at The Hague to find war criminals “not guilty.” Their power and influence over courts around the world is nearly unlimited.
Why, you might ask, would someone want to legalize mass murder?
You have to ask?
Limbaugh Accuses DOJ "Peacemakers" Of Organizing Anti-Zimmerman Protests
Blog ››› July 10, 2013 3:59 PM EDT ››› JUSTIN BERRIER
808
Rush Limbaugh seized on a report that government officials attended rallies related to George Zimmerman to accuse the Department of Justice of "instigating race riots" when in fact, the officials acted as peacekeepers to "defuse community anger."
On his radio show, Limbaugh read from a Judicial Watch post which claimed that a DOJ unit called the Community Relations Service (CRS) "deployed to Sanford, FL to organize and manage rallies against Zimmerman." The post highlighted documents obtained via Freedom of Information Act requests which detailed spending on activities such as providing "technical assistance for the preparation of possible marches and rallies related to the fatal shooting of a 17 year old African American male."
Limbaugh claimed the documents proved that the DOJ was "organizing anti-Zimmerman rallies," going on to say that "the United States government has been converted by Obama and [Eric] Holder into a community organizing agitator bunch." Limbaugh concluded that "this regime saw an opportunity to turn something into a profoundly racial case for the express purpose of ripping the country apart":
But the documents do not show the CRS organizing rallies against Zimmerman, only providing support and technical assistance for them. In fact, as the Miami Herald reported, the unit worked to "defuse community anger hardening along the fault lines of race, color and national origin":
[I]n the weeks after the Feb. 26, 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a city representative picked up the phone and called Thomas Battles, a quiet force who has worked almost three decades mending racially damaged communities.
The federal mediator works for the U.S. Department of Justice Community Relations Service (CRS), a stealth federal operation that works to defuse community anger hardening along the fault lines of race, color and national origin.
The mediators are called the peacemakers.
The Orlando Sentinel reported that the unit "reached out to the city's spiritual and civic leaders to help cool headed emotions" and brokered "deals between the city officials and residents to help prevent violence and lay the groundwork for peace":
When racial tensions flared in Sanford, a league of secretive peacemakers reached out to the city's spiritual and civic leaders to help cool heated emotions after 17-year-old Trayvon Martin was shot and killed in February.
When civil-rights organizers wanted to demonstrate, these federal workers taught them how to peacefully manage crowds.
They even arranged a police escort for college students to ensure safe passage for their 40-mile march from Daytona Beach to Sanford to demand justice.
As national figures and sign-waving protesters grabbed the spotlight after Trayvon's death, federal workers from a little-known branch of the Department of Justice labored away behind the scenes, quietly brokering deals between the city officials and residents to help prevent violence and lay the groundwork for peace.
According to the CRS website, the services they performed in Sanford are precisely what the unit is intended to do, and officials are only deployed "when requested or accepted by the parties":
The Community Relations Service is the Department's "peacemaker" for community conflicts and tensions arising from differences of race, color, and national origin. Created by the Civil Rights Act of 1964, CRS is the only Federal agency dedicated to assist State and local units of government, private and public organizations, and community groups with preventing and resolving racial and ethnic tensions, incidents, and civil disorders, and in restoring racial stability and harmony.
[...]
For more than 45 years, CRS has been asked to provide its experienced mediators to help local communities resolve conflicts and disturbances relating to race, color, or national origin. Each year CRS' highly skilled conciliators bring hundreds of community-wide conflicts to peaceful closure across America and its territories.
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:44 pm
Justice Dept. collecting public feedback on Zimmerman case
By Aaron Blake, Published: July 17 at 10:00 amE-mail the writer
Attorney General Eric Holder (AP Photo/John Raoux)
In an unusual move, the Justice Department announced Wednesday that it is collecting feedback from Americans for its investigation into whether to file civil rights charges against George Zimmerman.
Justice officials said the move comes “because of interest in this matter.” People can e-mail Sanford.Florida@usdoj.gov if they have thoughts on how the department should proceed.
It’s not clear how much bearing the feedback will have on the decision, which Justice officials have said will be made by “experienced federal prosecutors.”
“Unfortunately, the Department will not be able to respond to all messages received,” the department said in a statement.
Justice is currently reviewing the case to see whether it could bring civil rights charges against Zimmerman, who over the weekend was found not guilty of second-degree murder and manslaughter in the death of teenager Trayvon Martin. Experts doubt that such charges are warranted under the law.
by Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:20 pm
by American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm
Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:20 pm wrote:I get the feeling that people dont understand the concept of evidence and its importance when it comes to deciding to put people in prison.
There was no evidence to support the charges in this case, none, zero, nada. Do we really want to lower the burden of proof and allow people to be put in prison based on guess work, gut feeling and hunch, do we really not understand the long term consequences of that.
The jury made the decision based on the evidence presented, we may not like it, I DO NOT LIKE IT, but I accept it and understand why it has to be that way.
by Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:45 pm
American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm wrote:Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:20 pm wrote:I get the feeling that people dont understand the concept of evidence and its importance when it comes to deciding to put people in prison.
There was no evidence to support the charges in this case, none, zero, nada. Do we really want to lower the burden of proof and allow people to be put in prison based on guess work, gut feeling and hunch, do we really not understand the long term consequences of that.
The jury made the decision based on the evidence presented, we may not like it, I DO NOT LIKE IT, but I accept it and understand why it has to be that way.
There are many, many contradictions and ambiguities to be considered regarding jurisprudence in the United States. C2w does a consistently excellent job of laying those out, from what I have seen.
That said, this makes me think of a discussion of Fascism that is confined to to the issue of Adolph Eichmann's job performance only...
by Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:49 pm
seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:44 pm wrote:Justice Dept. collecting public feedback on Zimmerman case
By Aaron Blake, Published: July 17 at 10:00 amE-mail the writer
Attorney General Eric Holder (AP Photo/John Raoux)
In an unusual move, the Justice Department announced Wednesday that it is collecting feedback from Americans for its investigation into whether to file civil rights charges against George Zimmerman.
Justice officials said the move comes “because of interest in this matter.” People can e-mail Sanford.Florida@usdoj.gov if they have thoughts on how the department should proceed.
It’s not clear how much bearing the feedback will have on the decision, which Justice officials have said will be made by “experienced federal prosecutors.”
“Unfortunately, the Department will not be able to respond to all messages received,” the department said in a statement.
Justice is currently reviewing the case to see whether it could bring civil rights charges against Zimmerman, who over the weekend was found not guilty of second-degree murder and manslaughter in the death of teenager Trayvon Martin. Experts doubt that such charges are warranted under the law.
by seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:51 pm
A Forest of Poisonous Trees: The US Criminal (In)Justice System
Wednesday, 03 April 2013 00:00
By Kevin Zeese and Margaret Flowers , Truthout | News Analysis
There is a doctrine in the law developed in 1939 by Justice Felix Frankfurter known as the Fruit of the Poisonous Tree. The thrust is that courts do not allow illegally obtained evidence to be used in a criminal prosecution. This fruit of the poisonous tree cannot be allowed in court because it pollutes the justice system and encourages illegal behavior by police.
In our recent interview with attorney King Downing, who has worked on all of the issues discussed in this article, he said: "This is not just one bad apple, but a rotten tree." Actually the US criminal justice system has become a rotten forest. No matter where you look, you see poison: police-citizen interactions which include racial profiling, stop and frisk, targeting of Arabs and Muslims, and killings of unarmed citizens, mass arrests, mass incarceration and mistreatment of inmates, especially the widespread use of solitary confinement. The indefinite detention without trial of prisoners at Guantanamo, where a mass hunger strike is underway, exemplifies many of the worst aspects of the injustice system in the United States.
After decades of escalation beginning with Nixon's war on drugs, followed by the Reagan-era crack scare, Clinton's massive expansion of police on the street and this century's war on terror, the US criminal justice system has transformed into a tool of the national security state that pits citizens against government in everyday encounters.
As is the case for all of the crises that we face, there are more humane and effective ways to create real security. These solutions are being ignored because the security state is a powerful tool for government control and is a profit-producing Wall Street industry. Without intervention, we can expect the security state to encroach further into our lives and society. However, grassroots groups and inmates are taking action to increase awareness and detoxify the poisoned system.
Police-Citizen Encounters: A Security State Run Amok
Police-citizen encounters primarily involving people of color are increasing in number and severity. There are many examples of police killing citizens, over 400 each year nationwide. Few of these cases are ever independently investigated. To illustrate the injustice, we will describe two recent cases involving teenagers Kimani Gray and Alan Blueford.
On March 9, 16-year-old Kimani "Kiki" Gray was shot in the back and killed by two undercover police. Kiki had just left a baby shower and was not far from his home in Brooklyn's East Flatbush neighborhood when an unmarked car approached him and his friends. Police claim that Kiki pointed a .38 caliber revolver at them, but eyewitnesses report that Gray was not armed at all. The police fired 11 shots in total, three of which hit the teenager in the back.
Since the killing, there have been ongoing protests in Brooklyn to demand an independent investigation. Even without an investigation, Mayor Bloomberg has already stated that the killing was justified.
Last May, high school senior Alan Blueford had just attended a sporting event in Oakland. He called his parents to say he would be home soon and was waiting outside with two friends for a ride. An unmarked car pulled up with its lights off. Alan ran, possibly thinking it was a gang. Oakland Police Officer Miguel Masso chased the 18-year- old, shooting Alan twice in the back and side, killing him; as well as shooting himself in the foot.
Police claimed Alan had a weapon, but over a dozen witnesses said he didn't. The family and community have been protesting, calling for Masso to be fired and prosecuted, an end to stop-and-frisk and racial profiling and an independent investigation into Alan's case and other police killings.
These cases stem from racially prejudiced police policies which used to be known as racial profiling but are now commonly referred to by the more neutral term stop and frisk by police to avoid being identified as racist. Racial profiling has become especially notorious in New York City, where 5 million people have been subjected to abusive searches over the last decade, mostly young African-Americans and Latinos.
Police justify stop and frisk by saying that it is used in high crime areas. Downing points out that the number of people being stopped is much higher than local crime rates would justify and that stop and frisk also occurs in low-crime, mostly white areas when people of color are there.
The stop-and-frisk program has been targeted by thousands of protesters from Occupy and other community groups. Twenty were arrested in civil resistance protests and in a circus of a trial, were found not guilty of the most serious charges.
In addition, a class action was filed against the NYPD over stop and frisk. This trial, Floyd, et al. v. City of New York, et al. has so far featured revelations by police whistleblowers who oppose the practice and have testified that they were directed to use the searches aggressively and to target young black men aged 14 to 21:
Officer Adhyl Polanco testified that supervisors pressured officers with quotas for "stop-and-frisk" searches and arrests. Polanco secretly recorded this on audiotape. On the tape, senior officers order officers to generate arrest quotas of "20 and 1" which means 20 summonses and one arrest each month. Polanco also testified that in 2009, he was asked more than 20 times to fill out a stop-and-frisk form attesting to an incident he did not observe.
Officer Pedro Serrano taped conversations he had with his commanding officer, Deputy Inspector Christopher McCormack, who said: "I told you at roll call, and I have no problem [to] tell you this, [you should stop and frisk] male blacks 14 to 21." Serrano taped McCormick because he had gotten poor performance reviews for failing to meet what he claimed was the monthly quota of 20 summonses and five stop-and-frisks.
Brooklyn police officer Adrian Schoolcraft, testified at the trial that he was ordered to make more stops, sharing a tape he made in which another commanding officer, Lt. Jean Delafuente, says at roll call: "You're working in Bed-Stuy, where everyone's probably got a warrant."
Another officer, Brian Dennis, testified that he detained a 13-year-old boy and taunted him by telling the handcuffed child to stop "crying like a little girl." The young boy was brought to the police station and his father, a retired police officer, had to come and get him. The youth was not charged with any crime.
These "walking while black" incidents occur hundreds of thousands of times annually in New York City and destroy the fabric of police-community relations, humiliate citizens and create an adversarial relationship that poisons the community. Of the millions stopped and searched, nearly nine out of ten have been released without an arrest or summons. About 86 percent of those stopped have been black or Latino. In the precinct where Kimani Gray was killed, nearly 94 percent of the encounters result in no charges.
The targeting of blacks and Latinos is widespread, but since 9/11, a new target, Arabs and Muslims, have been under attack. In 2011, the Associated Press revealed that the CIA was working with the NYPD in targeting Muslims and Arabs, monitoring their businesses and religious institutions and mapping their communities. Law enforcement and CIA would seek out informants - taxi drivers with unpaid tickets, individuals with immigration status problems - and turn them into spies in their own communities.
And, of course, there are now revelations that the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI worked with police to infiltrate, spy upon and set up protesters involved in the Occupy movement. These COINTELPRO-like programs have been the norm against political movements for the last 100 years.
Mass Incarceration: Extreme, Expensive and Exploitative
The poison fruit of the massive security state apparatus in the United States is mass incarceration. The United States, with 5 percent of the world's population, has 25 percent of the world's prisoners, meaning one out of four incarcerated people are in the "land of the free." According to the World Prison Population list, the United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, 743 per 100,000 of the national population. The next closest is Rwanda at 595. More than half the countries and territories in the world (54 percent) have rates below 150.
Incarceration is only part of the criminal justice supervision system. When probation and parole are included, 7.3 million Americans are "in the system"; that is, 1 out of 34 Americans is either incarcerated, on probation or on parole. The rate of African-Americans under supervision (prison, probation or parole) is 1 in 11.
This massive increase in incarceration has occurred because of extreme sentencing schemes, especially mandatory sentencing for drug cases. For example, in the federal prison system in 1980, there were 4,900 federal prisoners held for a drug conviction, but by 2009, that number had ballooned to 95,205.
Downing relates this increase to the private for-profit prison industry. The American Legislative Executive Council (ALEC) introduced the concepts of zero tolerance and "three strikes you're out" decades ago through willing politicians. ALEC predicted that as the number of prisoners increased, the public prisons would become overwhelmed and this would open the door to private, for-profit prisons.
Corrections Corporation of America (CCA), the largest prison corporation and a member of ALEC, has negotiated contracts with states that guarantee 90 percent occupancy rates for the length of the contract, some of which are 20 to 30 years. ALEC has been behind laws that allow prison labor at private prisons, paying inmates as little as 17 cents per hour. The demand for prison labor by corporations such as IBM, AT&T and 3M creates a greater incentive to incarcerate. CCA is also known for human rights violations, cutting services to save money and increase profits. On March 27, hundreds of inmates at the Cibola County Correctional Center in New Mexico staged a 12-hour protest over prison conditions. Last year, prisoners in Mississippi violently rioted over lack of health care and abusive conditions, as did inmates at another CCA prison in Texas in 2010. A September 2012 report found private prisons to be unsafe, unnecessary and expensive.
Indeed, the mass incarceration system is very expensive. According to the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics, in 2010, state corrections institutions spent $37.3 billion to imprison a total of 1,316,858 inmates. BJS estimates that the mean expenditures per person were $28,323. The federal government fiscal year 2013 budget for the Bureau of Prisons totals $6.9 billion. Imagine the result if those dollars were invested in communities instead.
When incarceration is looked at through a racial prism, the racially disproportionate impact is striking. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, "In 2011, blacks and Hispanics were imprisoned at higher rates than whites in all age groups for both male and female inmates. Among prisoners ages 18 to 19, black males were imprisoned at more than 9 times the rate of white males."
The Stop Mass Incarceration Network, which is building a movement to end mass incarceration and police brutality, describes the circular, spiraling nature of this injustice - how it destroys families and communities and creates more crime and incarceration: "This racially targeted mass incarceration results from whole generations of inner city youth being criminalized; of poor communities being saddled with substandard schools that fail to educate our youth; and from the disappearance of employment opportunities in inner cities and rural areas.... On top of all this, after people serve their sentences, our society stamps them with a badge of dishonor and shame, discriminating against them when they seek employment, denying them access to public housing and government loans and even the right to vote!"
As public programs are defunded and privatized, the social and economic destruction of communities tears them apart and fuels the private prison industry. The school-to-prison pipeline is growing as students no longer drop out but are forced out. Since the 1970s, the number of students who are suspended has doubled. Not surprisingly, the majority are black. And police are now called to schools to handle routine behavioral issues in which they have little or no training. There are stories of children as young as 5, 6, 7 and 8 years old being handcuffed by police for normal childhood behavior.
The disenfranchisement of prisoners is regarded by many to be a new way to deny blacks the right to vote after passage of the 1965 Voting Rights Act. Currently, 13 percent of black men have lost the right to vote because they have been convicted as felons. Without the vote, people lose the right to have a voice in the policies that affect them.
Solitary Confinement: Widespread, Abusive and Counterproductive
According to Jean Casella of Solitary Watch, on any single day, the United States holds 80,000 to 100,000 people in solitary confinement. Worldwide, fewer than a dozen countries have as many people in prison as the United States has in solitary confinement.
Solitary confinement goes by many names, including administrative segregation, disciplinary confinement, security housing and restricted housing, but it normally consists of 22 to 24 hours of lockdown in a small cell without human contact. It is now used routinely rather than being reserved for extreme situations, a practice which runs counter to international law. Terms in solitary confinement often extend to months, years or decades, even though it is known that more than 15 days in isolation causes psychological damage. And keeping someone in solitary is expensive, costing $70,000 to $75,000 annually, or three times as much as non-solitary incarceration.
The United States has imposed solitary confinement for more than 200 years. Almost immediately, the ineffectiveness and negative effects of solitary were evident. In 1890, the US Supreme Court wrote in, In re Medley, 134 U.S. 160, 168 (1890): "A considerable number of the prisoners fell, after even a short confinement, into a semi-fatuous condition, from which it was next to impossible to arouse them, and others became violently insane, others, still, committed suicide, while those who stood the ordeal better were not generally reformed, and in most cases did not recover sufficient mental activity to be of any subsequent service to the community."
However, except for a few state laws protecting the mentally ill, there are no laws in the United States prohibiting solitary confinement and courts have not taken action to prohibit it. Solitary Watch reports on many who are in isolation, such as William Blake, who is considered to be an escape risk and has been in solitary, administrative detention for 25 years. How does he handle it? "Dreaming is what helps him get through the long, colorless nights in the Security Housing Unit. "Sometimes I watch the roaches and I envy them," he writes:
In my mind I have fantasized that I was a cockroach and I maneuver all through the halls of the prison, walk under the locked gates and stay close to the walls to avoid being stepped on by a CO who's walking through the prison. Then I get outside through some crack or under some door, walk through the grass that looks like tall trees to me, my being a roach and small, then I'm up and over the wall and out. Once I make it, I pop myself back to being human and I walk off into the night, free again and not even caring if I die that same night, just as long as I can see some trees and feel a breeze, and know for an hour or two that I was free again, that I lived to see the outside of prison before my time in this world would be over.
Solitary confinement is one way to silence those who are politically active. Mother Jones reports on a case of two men, Black Panther members, who have been in solitary confinement for 40 years. They were convicted for killing a prison guard. Herman Wallace and Albert Woodfox, who as of last year were 70 and 65 years old respectively, spend 23 hours a day in cells measuring 6 feet by 9 feet. They are allowed one hour a day to take a shower or stroll along the cellblock. Three days a week, they may use that hour to exercise alone in a fenced yard.
Their defense lawyers and the prison psychologist describe severe mental anguish, anxiety, depression, memory loss and other symptoms. Bruce Cain, the warden of the Louisiana Penitentiary at Angola, said in a deposition that he would keep them in solitary no matter what they did because they still "practice Black Pantherism" and would "organize young new inmates."
Solitary confinement has severe psychological consequences and is considered torture in many countries. One study of suicides related to solitary quoted an inmate: "I started hearing voices and losing control of my own thoughts ... I really started noticing more when I started being in the hole ... It just started getting worse for me." Another study found two out of three suicides were among those held in solitary. Those held in solitary more frequently engage in self-mutilation, throw feces against the wall or take other actions to get attention and gain some human interaction.
While solitary confinement is difficult for healthy people, it has particularly severe consequences for those with mental illness. And roughly 20 percent of inmates suffer from serious mental illness. According to research compiled by the American Psychiatric Association, placement in settings of "extreme isolation" is inappropriate for these patients and will cause their condition to deteriorate. The result is a worsening cycle in which inmates with mental illness are placed in solitary, their condition is exacerbated and they become agitated, which results in an extended term in solitary.
Casella of Solitary Watch says "solitary confinement is the most important domestic human rights issue that most people have never heard of." Those with mental illness and juveniles are more likely to be placed in solitary. Children as young as 14 who entered the adult justice system are placed in solitary for their own protection, but they are subjected to the same conditions as others in solitary, including complete sensory deprivation. It is suspected that even younger children are placed in solitary in juvenile detention centers. Such treatment of youth is completely unheard of in other democratic countries.
The US prison system needs to recognize that solitary confinement does more harm than good and should be banned. Solitary Watch reports: "In 2006, the Commission on Safety and Abuse in America's Prisons, following a yearlong investigation, called for dramatic reductions and reforms on the practice of solitary confinement, noting the high recidivism rate and the viability of alternatives to solitary confinement." They viewed solitary as actually being "counter-productive." Their recommendations were to protect mentally ill prisoners, make sure that prisoners have "regular and meaningful human contact," only use solitary as "a last resort" and to "stop releasing people directly from segregation to the streets."
Solitary Watch summarized the international view: "European bodies have taken a more progressive view on solitary confinement, allowing it only after a medical examination certifies the prisoner fit to sustain the isolation and with daily monitoring of the prisoner's psychological state." In fact, the Convention Against Torture, to which the United States is a party, recommends that the use of solitary confinement be abolished.
How to bring about this change? It begins with education of the public that solitary confinement is overused, amounts to torture and is counterproductive. Change will happen when the public speaks out and takes action on behalf of prisoners. This is what ended the pretrial solitary confinement of WikiLeaks whistleblower Bradley Manning.
Prisoners have also taken action to improve their treatment. One famous effort was the Pelican Bay Prison hunger strike in 2011. On July 1, 2011, 6,600 prisoners began a hunger strike against solitary. One inmate, Todd Ashker, explained why they went on a strike: "We believe our only option of ever trying to make some kind of positive change here is through this peaceful hunger strike ... there is a core group of us who are committed to taking this all the way to the death if necessary." Director of Communications for Correctional Health Services Nancy Kincaid responded, "They have the right to choose to die of starvation if they wish." Throughout the strike, the media was kept away from the prisoners. The prisoners have not won their demand and another strike began this month.
Guantanamo Bay: Hunger Strike at the Death Camp
As we write this article, Guantanamo Bay prisoners have been on a hunger strike for seven weeks and national solidarity actions in support of the prisoners are taking place. There continue to be 166 people held in long-term detention without trial in the Guantanamo Bay prison. Of those, 86 were cleared for release three years ago because there is no evidence that they committed any crime and they are not a threat to the United States, but they remain incarcerated with no plans for release. Another 46 are stuck in limbo because they were "too dangerous to transfer but not feasible for prosecution." Only six prisoners have had any charges filed against them.
In a nation where the rule of law was actually applied, wouldn't the 166 prisoners, some of whom have been incarcerated for a decade, have been indicted and had a trial? Wouldn't a nation of laws only have six people, those actually facing charges, in prison? And wouldn't they get a real trial, not a manufactured military tribunal and limited due process designed just for them? Guantanamo shows how far the United States has strayed from the rule of law.
Prisoners at Guantanamo are on a hunger strike because death may be their only way out. The military admits 39 are on a hunger strike, but the lawyers of those in Guantanamo say half the prisoners are refusing to eat. The prisoners report abuse of the Koran during searches in February and worsening conditions. According to The New Yorker, "Many of the hunger-strikers had been the most compliant prisoners, the ones who got to go to art classes and live in group settings, not the most recalcitrant."
Navy Captain Robert Durand, a spokesman for the prison, told Agence France-Presse (AFP) that 11 of the hunger strikers were being force-fed with feeding tubes, while two of those had been hospitalized for rehydration and observation. David Remes, a lawyer representing 15 detainees, including 13 hunger strikers, reports the prisoners are prepared to die and calls the strike "the ultimate expression of desperation." The Red Cross visited the prison, but AFP reported that the prisoners do not trust them and would not talk to them.
These men are putting their lives at risk in order to get the world to hear their pleas. Cage Prisoners reports: "A detainee's attorney stated that his client lost 40 pounds which was a third of his entire body weight. Additionally, some hunger strikers have been coughing up blood, losing consciousness and being forced to move to other wings of the facility for observation." Despite this, they are not being heard, as the mass media does its best to ignore their suffering. No doubt, most Americans would prefer not to know what their country is doing to people at Guantanamo Bay.
The courts help to keep people in the United States and the world uninformed. In January, a federal court ruled that videos showing how inmates are taken from their cells could not be shared because doing so, the Obama administration claimed, could "incite the civilian population .. thereby putting U.S. military forces and its allies at increased risk." Judge John D. Bates refused to "second-guess" the government, finding "even solo images of detainees taken from the forced cell extraction videos could pose a substantial risk and danger to national security." If what the United States is doing is so ugly that it will inflame people, maybe the United States should reconsider what it is doing to these uncharged inmates.
Rather than closing Guantanamo as he promised, President Obama seems set on making the prison permanent. In January, the Obama State Department reassigned and has not replaced the official responsible for the closing of Guantanamo Bay. The commander of the base, Capt. John Nettleton, recently told Reuters that he wants to build a new cafeteria for the camp's personnel, along with a permanent barracks. New Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel is considering a proposal to spend $195.7 million to renovate the facility, which already costs $120 million annually to run.
While the continued operation of Guantanamo deserves blame in both Congress and the White House, President Obama overstates how much the Congress has stopped him. As president emeritus of the Center for Constitutional Rights Michael Ratner explains in this interview on the Real News Network, under the law passed by Congress, to transfer any person from Guantanamo to another country merely requires the Obama administration "notify Congress 30 days in advance."
"And there has to be a certification by the attorney general of various factors, that the person is not a danger," Ratner said. It seems that for almost everyone held at Guantanamo, certainly for the 86 cleared for release, Obama could make this certification and shrink the prison to irrelevancy. It seems there are a lot of good reasons for ending the death camp at Guantanamo, but dysfunctional government refuses to act.
Antidotes: Expose the Toxins and Create Real Security
The US prison system has become an embarrassment to the nation and to the principles which the United States claims to uphold. From police treatment on the streets through the courts and into the prisons, we should be ashamed at what activities are considered criminal and the way people are treated.
There is a desperate need to re-evaluate what is defined as crime and the extreme punitive approach being used and to move toward a system that is more just and dignified. There is empirical evidence from around the world, and within the United States of more effective approaches which reduce crime and recidivism, cost less and build communities. But as it is with so many solutions to the crises we face, those who are most affected do not have the right to a political voice.
In fact, as the attorney King Downing emphasizes, the real criminals are those on Wall Street who control the political process and exploit people for profit. Wall Street is also responsible for the severe wealth inequality in the United States, one of the most unequal countries in the world. And as described in the book The Spirit Level, wealth inequality is linked to poor performance in many indicators of social well-being.
If the United States were really concerned about security, it would create a strong social infrastructure that provides quality education, affordable health care and housing, and full employment at a living wage. But such policies would lead to an empowered population that would resist Wall Street's efforts to profit from everything no matter the cost to people and the planet.
It is the job of conscious citizens to educate, organize and mobilize for positive change. Films such as Herman's House and The House I Live In are being used to raise awareness and stimulate discussions.
The prison-industrial complex is a symptom of a larger problem: economic and political systems that allow exploitation for profit. An industry that profits from incarcerating people shouldn't exist. Activism is needed to investigate what is happening and to demand transparency, accountability and effective solutions.
There are signs that this is beginning to happen. Some groups have targeted Wells Fargo with regular protests because they are the largest investor in GEO, a private prison corporation. This resulted in the bank dumping 75 percent of its investment in the company. Students at Florida Atlantic University protested when they learned that the school planned to name its football stadium for GEO. These positive steps are antidotes to the fruit of the poisonous forest that surrounds us.
by American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:51 pm
Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:45 pm wrote:American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm wrote:Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:20 pm wrote:I get the feeling that people dont understand the concept of evidence and its importance when it comes to deciding to put people in prison.
There was no evidence to support the charges in this case, none, zero, nada. Do we really want to lower the burden of proof and allow people to be put in prison based on guess work, gut feeling and hunch, do we really not understand the long term consequences of that.
The jury made the decision based on the evidence presented, we may not like it, I DO NOT LIKE IT, but I accept it and understand why it has to be that way.
There are many, many contradictions and ambiguities to be considered regarding jurisprudence in the United States. C2w does a consistently excellent job of laying those out, from what I have seen.
That said, this makes me think of a discussion of Fascism that is confined to to the issue of Adolph Eichmann's job performance only...
I understand our system isnt perfect but I have yet to see a better one, all I am saying is that there is a burden of proof that has to be met and it wasnt. There are many reasons for that, some of those reasons are the prosecutions fault, the cops fault and perhaps even racism itself, but the fact remains the evidence was not there and almost 100% of the legal experts who do not have some sort of political agenda agree that the right verdict was rendered even if they hate it and disagree with it they cannot rightfully say that the verdict was wrong given the evidence that was presented to that jury.
I am sickened that Trayon is dead and that GZ couldnt just mind his own fucking business, but sad as it all is, the evidence was just not there and we cant just throw the burden of proof out, selectively, for some cases, just because we dont like the end result, WE JUST CANT DO THAT, the consequences for that are dangerous and not a road we really want to go down.
The verdict has been rendered, that part of this story is OVER and should remain OVER but I understand there is certainly a lot more to discuss about racism in general and what led to this whole thing happening to begin with, lets continue to have that discussion but we have to stop calling for the feds to come in and retry a case that has already been tried and a verdict rendered, we just really DO NOT NEED TO BE GOING DOWN THAT ROAD especially now with all the abuse the govt is already involved in, to give them the ok to do that is just lending more support to their abuse of power.
by Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:06 pm
American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:51 pm wrote:Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:45 pm wrote:American Dream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:35 pm wrote:Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:20 pm wrote:I get the feeling that people dont understand the concept of evidence and its importance when it comes to deciding to put people in prison.
There was no evidence to support the charges in this case, none, zero, nada. Do we really want to lower the burden of proof and allow people to be put in prison based on guess work, gut feeling and hunch, do we really not understand the long term consequences of that.
The jury made the decision based on the evidence presented, we may not like it, I DO NOT LIKE IT, but I accept it and understand why it has to be that way.
There are many, many contradictions and ambiguities to be considered regarding jurisprudence in the United States. C2w does a consistently excellent job of laying those out, from what I have seen.
That said, this makes me think of a discussion of Fascism that is confined to to the issue of Adolph Eichmann's job performance only...
I understand our system isnt perfect but I have yet to see a better one, all I am saying is that there is a burden of proof that has to be met and it wasnt. There are many reasons for that, some of those reasons are the prosecutions fault, the cops fault and perhaps even racism itself, but the fact remains the evidence was not there and almost 100% of the legal experts who do not have some sort of political agenda agree that the right verdict was rendered even if they hate it and disagree with it they cannot rightfully say that the verdict was wrong given the evidence that was presented to that jury.
I am sickened that Trayon is dead and that GZ couldnt just mind his own fucking business, but sad as it all is, the evidence was just not there and we cant just throw the burden of proof out, selectively, for some cases, just because we dont like the end result, WE JUST CANT DO THAT, the consequences for that are dangerous and not a road we really want to go down.
The verdict has been rendered, that part of this story is OVER and should remain OVER but I understand there is certainly a lot more to discuss about racism in general and what led to this whole thing happening to begin with, lets continue to have that discussion but we have to stop calling for the feds to come in and retry a case that has already been tried and a verdict rendered, we just really DO NOT NEED TO BE GOING DOWN THAT ROAD especially now with all the abuse the govt is already involved in, to give them the ok to do that is just lending more support to their abuse of power.
There is so much to be said about how the U.S. legal system reflects, enforces and perpetuates the oppression that is at the core of the System here in what some may call "best nation on Earth" for some, perhaps. This does not change the brutal realities at work in the heart of America for many, however.
That would be a great place to start in understanding what went wrong, and how we can help make things better...
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