Trayvon Martin

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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:36 pm

Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:28 pm wrote:
Nordic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:17 pm wrote:
HE DID NOT BREAK ANY LAWS, as least that the evidence shows, there is no evidence that he broke a law and that is what is needed, evidence.



What the fuck is wrong with you? He shot and killed somebody. There was a goddamn dead body there, that's your fucking evidence, you fucking racist.

Wow, that was uncalled for and I would like a mod to address this, I am not a racist and my comments and posts indicate no such thing.

My point was there is no evidence as to how that murder took place, nobody was there to see it and therefore there was no evidence to present to a jury to make a decision on how it happened, YES WE CAN ALL GUESS AND ASSUME HOW IT HAPPENED AND I AGREE WITH YOU but that isnt evidence presentable in court in a trial for murder.


But I will tell you what, I am done here and I would like a mod to just go ahead and delete my account, I wont tolerate ever being called a racist and I have NEVER POSTED A SINGLE THING to indicate that I am racist, I have AGREED THAT THE VERDICT SUCKS and I am sickened by what GZ did I simply said there was no evidence to convict him on the charges filed and every single legal expert agrees so I guess we are all racist.

Mods you can go ahead and delete my account, since my time here I have seen nothing but mean spirited attacks on posters who are offering genuine and sincere and opinion and not attacking anyone, in fact I have never attacked anyone on this board or even been warned about such BUT THIS FORUM IS TOXIC and I want nothing more to do with it, I DEMAND you delete my posts and my name or I will deal with it through your host and server.

Thank you in advance and in the future you really should try and clean this place up, this sort of crap is intolerable.

To those I made friends with I thank you for your time and contributions but this is the straw that broke the camels back, this is the most unfriendly and toxic fucking forum I ever been to and I have tried to stick around and make it better and never once met fire with fire but a person can only take so much, So again please delete every comment and my account from this forum.



oh geees if American Dream and I can post in the same thread you must realize you have to let water roll here
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:41 pm

Ok, regardless of what the operator suggested(ie: strongly urged in my mind), or what Zimmerman did..

THE FACT REMAINS on Sean Hannity's show Zimmerman said he DOESNT REGRET a thing, WOULD NOT do anything differently and it was "God's Plan". I mean holy shit. Forget everything that happened,
this guy says he would not have done anything differently and pretty much doesn't regret anything. As in he would still have followed and profiled the kid.


This Zimmerman type of stuff happens all the time. Except, it's even MORE clear in other cases the minority victim was 10000% innocent.

1. In 1997 two 18 year old high schoolers lured a 7 year old black girl into a Las Vegas bathroom, and brutally raped and killer her.
But because of some technicality one of the friends(named David King) got off scotch free. And then bragged about being free on radio
before he enjoyed his years at Berkeley.

2. In 1992 a white guy shot to death a Japanese exchange student in Louisiana, got off scott free
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshihiro_Hattori

2. And everyone remembers this case:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amadou_Diallo_shooting
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby 8bitagent » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:44 pm

I regret Hunter leaving, but I want to address what he said. While I understand a police or emergency operator's suggestions or warnings are not "law", they often follow a general common sense ground.
When a woman calls because an armed intruder is breaking into her door with an obvious intent to harm, the operator will say something like "well you do what you feel you have to do". That's code for PROTECT yourself.
When the operator told Zimmerman he shouldnt pursue, that means DONT PURSUE KNUCKLEHEAD!

Very simple.

Also it makes me angry all these right wingers showing pictures of Trayvon smoking weed. Um, what teenage demographic in America doesnt smoke or at least tried marijuana in 2013? C'mon folks.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby stevie ray » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:49 pm

Are there any people here who would have been able to be a juror in this case, because as far as I know you're not supposed to have your mind made up until you sit in the box and hear the evidence. Is that still the way it is in this country?
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Hunter » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:00 pm

8bitagent » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:44 pm wrote:I regret Hunter leaving, but I want to address what he said. While I understand a police or emergency operator's suggestions or warnings are not "law", they often follow a general common sense ground.
When a woman calls because an armed intruder is breaking into her door with an obvious intent to harm, the operator will say something like "well you do what you feel you have to do". That's code for PROTECT yourself.
When the operator told Zimmerman he shouldnt pursue, that means DONT PURSUE KNUCKLEHEAD!

Very simple.

Also it makes me angry all these right wingers showing pictures of Trayvon smoking weed. Um, what teenage demographic in America doesnt smoke or at least tried marijuana in 2013? C'mon folks.



Eh I am admittedly in shitty mood myself, I am just tired of the personal attacks on here that every thread becomes after about page 5 thread after thread after thread and it is just becoming pointless to waste what little free time I have here, I do appreciate many of you, a lot of cool folks on here.




BTW ITS BEEN WEEK, I read that Canadian Watcher, who happens to be a friend of mine off board since we share a common interest and exhanged emails, was suspended for ONE WEEK and she email me today and said she still cant sign in so before I do depart I owe it to her to at least ask a MOD or JEFF to look in to that because she was suspended on the 9th for ONE WEEK as per JEFFS POST which is the last post in the thread that Brekin started about him or her leaving, so could someone please check and see why CW's ban is lasting more than the one week Jeff said it was for, perhaps there is a glitch in the system, it happens, that will be my parting gift to someone who befriended me and in spite of her unpopularity she was quite nice to me and we shared many great discussions in email.

So CW I hope it works out for you at least this will bring attention to why your ban seems to me more than the week Jeff said it was for, I am sure he would want to know about that so here it is.


Take care folks, I apologize for my histronics but there is so much bad shit and bad blood in the world today that I really dont want to subject myself to more of it on purpose and sadly that is what this forum has become, to me. I am sorry for that, I really am.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby parel » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:24 pm

To White Folks: The Collective Lament of Trayvon Martin is Not Your Anti-Racist Political Platform

By Suzahn Ebrahimian
July 17, 2013


I have been in hiding – as much as one can be in 2013. The news of George Zimmerman’s acquital is obviously not news to you, if you’re reading this. When thinking about this column over the past week, I have been coming up blank repeatedly. It seems like something should be said about this case… but what is there to say? Conversations about the trial are being waged like wars all around me. People were – and still are – talking about what happened with passion and fury. People are taking to the streets in cities from coast to coast, demonstrating their rage with their bodies.

Here I sit. I don’t have much to say. I only have ways of feeling.

News of the jury’s decision hit me softly, as if someone slowly wrapped my head in a blanket and then tossed me into a light-less sea. Then I sank to the bottom. I’m still there, not breathing, not speaking, feeling nothing but pressure and weight. The words of my friends and peers, the poetry, the outrage, the status changes, they are my stepping stones to get through the day.

It seems as if every day, dozens of questions are asked repeatedly.

How do we talk about George Zimmerman? How far must we dig into the prison industrial complex? How many times must we cite the “stand your ground” statistics, that so dutifully uphold white supremacy? Do we call out the entire justice system? Or the jury? Or Zimmerman’s lawyer? Do we cry for Trayvon, or for his parents, or for every black child born in the United States? Where are the white feminists’ outrage for Rachel Jeantel? What the fuck does “justice system” even mean? Why does racism still surprise us? What is to be done?

It is as if all of these question are being shouted at once, as a singular sound, over and over, by thousands of people. My body is full of this sound. It is painful and sustained, digging up thousands of histories from this cold earth. This sound echoes the sounds coming from Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia, DRC, Sudan, Liberia, Rwanda, the list goes on and on.

This sound is a collective lament. Some people hear it in a scream, others a chant, others a song – though it always persists; the collective lament, where we ask every question that needs asking. Where we honor the dead and curse the killer. This moment of actualized grief. This moment of riot and lived pain.

I am at the bottom of the sea, with no light to show me the way back to the surface. And I will stay here for a long, long time.

I have a lot to talk about, experiences to share. There have been many generative moments from the past few months I have spent collaborating with the refugee communities of Boise. Building towards mutual aid and taking action outside of the system is empowering and energizing.

But I’m not going to talk about that right now, during this time of mourning, because I have much more to learn than I have to say. As a mixed-racial American citizen who presents as white/female, my world of experiences is limited.

There are times, like now, when I just listen. White supremacy entitles those of us with racial privileges to “help” in the ways that white supremacy tends to do so – by control and cooptation (for example: many people that say “I am Trayvon Martin” never have been, nor will they ever be, Trayvon Martin).

I have read many statements from white folks who intend the best, but really turn their words into a platform for them to publicly distance themselves from racism and white supremacy.

Let me be clear – there is no way to distance yourself from the white supremacist system if you are white. The only way to distance oneself from a white supremacist system is to destroy it. By destroy I do not simply mean internally “checking your privilege,” which I’m not sure is an action at all but more of a stopping of action. I mean literally destroy. Refuse to acknowledge this legal system as legitimate. Take down every prison, every courtroom, take the guns and the authority of the state away from every police officer. Disband our colonialist military.

To be honest, I don’t see that happening just because you wore a hoodie in your profile picture. In fact, I don’t see that happening at all if there is no accountability for ones own participation in this violence.

Even as a mixed person, with an immigrant father who has brown skin, I have benefited from my pale complexion for my entire life. If no one knows my name, I am any other white person; and I get many of the privileges that come with that territory. No amount of anti-racist sentiment or *perceived* anti-racist actions on my part will EVER change that, until the last US courtroom has closed its doors for good.

This is a time to mourn, and we all should mourn in whatever ways we feel are best – on the streets or in writing or by challenging blatantly bigoted/racist people in our lives. But for those of us who experience white privilege, this is also a time to recognize the constant role we play in the racism that constructs everything around us.

Wait, scratch that. Do that recognition part all the time. Don’t wait until the photograph of a murdered teenager is staring you in the face.

Because, I ask; How many pictures of dead children never make it to CBS news?

Until next time,
I am at the bottom of the sea, with no surface in sight.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Jerky » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:54 pm

What the hell is THIS neverending deluge of utterly nonsensical babble?!


seemslikeadream » 17 Jul 2013 17:05 wrote:
Stop Doing the Vicious Work of the Ruling Class
I offered some brief thoughts about Obama's disgusting and profoundly offensive comments regarding the Zimmerman verdict here. In thinking about the trial and verdict -- and, of much more significance, the overwhelming amount of commentary offered by almost everyone about this case -- I realized some additional remarks of my own are merited. In particular, there is one significant issue that I haven't seen sufficiently addressed elsewhere.

As I occasionally feel compelled to do when I discuss subjects of this kind, allow me to establish my general perspective. I have written extensively about the vicious and pervasive racism that permeates every aspect of life in the United States. As just two examples out of many more, see "Racist Nation" and "Are You Now, or Have You Ever Been ... a Racist?" The second article is titled in that manner because I was addressing the charges of racism leveled by many people against anyone who dared to criticize Obama during the 2008 election. Because I wrote a number of essays exposing the numerous lies and frauds that the Obama candidacy represented, some people accused me of being a racist. In view of my extensive writing on this subject, the accusation was shockingly unjust.

I've also emphasized repeatedly that racism is sickeningly alive and well in the United States today. From the War on Drugs (see here and here), to the War on Terror and U.S. foreign policy in general (and in every particular), as well as in the countless ways that systemic racism finds expression in our everyday lives -- from the jobs that are available to us, to housing, to education, to everything else -- racism remains a critical foundational element of our existence. The truth of this issue has been hopelessly confused and sabotaged by the election and reelection of Obama. Because he desired power, because he wanted to be the most powerful man in the world as the head of the most murderously powerful nation on earth, Obama ran as a white man. As I have stated: "All this means that it is Obama himself who has adopted the white racist framework. Yes, I repeat that: Obama has adopted the white racist framework with regard to every issue of importance."

The lie of the Obama presidency has confounded this issue almost beyond the point of reclamation. (A perusal of "Obama's Whitewash," which analyzes Obama's widely-praised speech on race, provides a primer on how this monumental lie took hold.) A lie so overwhelming in its significance and reach makes accurate analysis of virtually any subject all but impossible. The Zimmerman case fell into this cauldron of lies, confusion and dishonest agendas. It is not surprising in the least that it is enormously difficult to find sensible commentary about it.

With this as background, I state the following. While I did not follow the case very closely, I think I know enough of the critical facts to form basic judgments about it. If I had been on the Zimmerman jury, I would have voted not guilty. In an article rare for its coherence on this subject, Ta-Nehisi Coates says the same thing:
In trying to assess the killing of Trayvon Martin by George Zimmerman, two seemingly conflicted truths emerge for me. The first is that based on the case presented by the state, and based on Florida law, George Zimmerman should not have been convicted of second degree murder or manslaughter. The second is that the killing of Trayvon Martin is a profound injustice.
That is exactly right, and his reasoning deserves your attention.

Keep in mind an obvious point that is often forgotten: not guilty does not mean innocent. Zimmerman is certainly guilty of following, and probably of stalking, Martin in an entirely unjustified manner. He may well be guilty of being a vicious racist himself; some facts suggest that, but others do not. In terms of what happened that night, it is undeniably true that, had Zimmerman not acted as he did, the tragedy would not have occurred. In that sense, Zimmerman was the prime mover in connection with Martin's death.

None of that changes the fact Zimmerman was not proved guilty of the crimes with which he was charged. As Coates discusses (and as others have also pointed out), to prove Zimmerman guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, the State would have had to prove that, in the final moments of their confrontation, Zimmerman had no reasonable fear that he was in serious danger. Given the fragmented, sometimes contradictory accounts from the few witnesses to that confrontation, there was never any chance that the State could meet that burden. Therefore, Zimmerman is not guilty of these particular crimes -- although he may nonetheless be guilty of being an entirely rotten human being who exhibited extremely poor (and possibly hideously motivated) judgment.

When laid out in this manner, the case is actually very straightforward. But now consider the purposes for which the right and left have appropriated it. (I use "right" and "left" in the broad sense in which those terms are commonly understood.) The right loses no opportunity to argue that, while racism (and slavery) were terrible evils in this country's history, slavery is long gone, and racism is no more. If their assertions are challenged, they will ultimately resort to saying (with exclamation points): "But we have a black President! Who was reelected! Racism must be dead!" This is only one of the hideously deformed results of the monumental lie that Obama embodies. The right has no wish (and perhaps no ability) to understand that Obama fashioned himself into the whitest man in America, precisely so he could wield power on an incalculable scale. And Obama is notably more vicious in the exercise of that power than the white man who preceded him in that office. Nor is the right in the least concerned with what Michelle Alexander calls "The New Jim Crow," just as they evince no understanding whatsoever of the numerous ways in which racism remains embedded in the structure of this country, as well as in the fabric of its everyday life. Similarly, they strenuously deny that racism lies at the root of U.S. foreign policy.

For the right, the Zimmerman verdict represents the triumph of "colorblind justice." Even if that were true, it is certainly not true that race had nothing to do with this case, as the right also contends. Many on the right endlessly repeat that Zimmerman is not white himself, and use this fact to argue that the left's entire "narrative" is wrong. But as Coates concludes:
When you have a society that takes at its founding the hatred and degradation of a people, when that society inscribes that degradation in its most hallowed document, and continues to inscribe hatred in its laws and policies, it is fantastic to believe that its citizens will derive no ill messaging.

It is painful to say this: Trayvon Martin is not a miscarriage of American justice, but American justice itself. This is not our system malfunctioning. It is our system working as intended. To expect our juries, our schools, our police to single-handedly correct for this, is to look at the final play in the final minute of the final quarter and wonder why we couldn't come back from twenty-four down.
The right is intent on using the Zimmerman case to prove that racism is no longer a force of any consequence in the U.S., that racism played no part in this tragedy, and that America at its core is truly good and just. All of that is not simply a lie, but a lie that disregards every fact of consequence in our history, and every fact that matters today. (For the record, I do not view it as possible that this is ever an innocent lie in any respect.)

The left's central crime in this affair is to have made the Zimmerman case an enormous cause in the first place. The analysis of the case I offer above was entirely available to anyone who paid any attention to this case almost from the beginning. This is a case that should never have been brought. While I agree with Coates' perspective, his level-headed approach is very rare for commentary from the left. What is most revealing about the left's treatment is what they refuse to discuss. With rare exceptions, they will not acknowledge the racism that lies at the heart of U.S. foreign policy, to which Obama is as fully committed as any of his predecessors. In fact, with his vast expansion of the Special Operations forces' operations, with his forays into Africa and the Far East -- to say nothing of the Obama administration's unceasing interference in the Middle East -- Obama has reinvigorated America's drive to global hegemony in ways that earlier presidents can only envy. In the same way, the left frequently refuses to admit the racism that undergirds the War on Drugs, which Obama continues with sickening zeal. And Obama's views on a wide range of issues perfectly mirror those of the white ruling class (see this for a more minor, but still nauseating, example).

While the right trumpets that racism must be dead, the left answers criticisms like mine with: "How can Obama be racist? He's black, for God's sake!" These are ridiculously stupid and ill-informed judgments. Their purpose is not to advance the truth, for they have nothing to do with the truth. Instead, the purpose of such claims is to strengthen tribal identity. (See "Learning to Hate 'The Other'" for a discussion of the dynamics of tribes in general, and of the formation of political tribes in particular.) It was to advance and inflame tribal cohesiveness that Obama interceded in the Martin case in the first instance, with his proclamation that: "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon." It was a disgustingly irresponsible statement. Its obvious, desired effect was to make people think: "Oh, my God! Zimmerman killed Obama's son!" So much for letting justice take its course unimpeded, in the absence of undue influence.

Obama seems to have a penchant for this kind of meddling. See this story from a few days ago, about the many problems certain of Obama's comments have created in the efforts to pursue those who may have committed sexual assaults in the military. Obama's remarks were a boon to defense lawyers, who can seize on them as "unlawful command influence." The man is an exceedingly dangerous menace in every area he touches, which is every area. My own view is that Obama simply didn't care that his statement might cause endless problems in the military cases. He loves wielding the enormous powers he has. He wanted absolute power, and now he has it, since he claims the "right" to murder anyone he chooses. And he loves every minute of it.

The demonstrations against the Zimmerman verdict continue, as the tribes play out their chosen roles. The demonstrations concern a case which should not have been brought, and which cannot support the constructions the right and left have placed on it. Meanwhile, wouldn't all those energies be far better directed if, for example, they were targeted against U.S. foreign policy? Or against the War on Drugs? Or against what is almost certainly the already irreversible rise of the surveillance state? But no: the right and left have learned their parts very well. All the arguments they need have been prefabricated, ready to be hauled out whenever the signal is given.

The Zimmerman case is yet another in an endless series of distractions. It is another bauble to be tossed around by the ever-busy writers and "activists" of this country's political factions. It is a means of fragmenting and splitting the people's political power, which would be far more meaningful -- and far more powerful -- if the warring factions could only be motivated to form strategic alliances. All those energies are safely directed into a non-threatening pathway -- while the ruling class continues to consolidate and expand its power over every one of us. To the extent the right and left play their parts with such enthusiasm, they do the ruling class's bidding. Most of those on the right and the left have enthusiastically placed themselves in service to the State, and the majority of them have no understanding whatsoever of their grievous failing.

At this point, I almost feel it's beside the point to blame the ruling class for this kind of thing. (Note: I continue to blame and condemn the ruling class without mercy.) What appalls me is how easy it is to distract the American public with incidents like this. Most Americans have been trained very thoroughly. The bell is rung, and they eagerly run to their designated positions. While they are entirely consumed with playing their meaningless roles in the affair of the moment, they pay no heed to the hell that is rising around them.

They'll finally recognize that hell soon enough, but only when it is far too late to do anything to stop it. From that perspective, I can certainly agree that the Trayvon Martin case is a terrible tragedy. But it not only the tragedy of one life ended far too soon. It is the ongoing tragedy of this nation, as it plummets into the nightmare from which there is no awakening.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby seemslikeadream » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:12 pm

^^^^

just Arthur Silber being Arthur Silber

he's a bit cranky ....he's in really bad health ...very very ill
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby justdrew » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:41 pm

By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Bruce Dazzling » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:54 pm

Nordic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:17 pm wrote:
HE DID NOT BREAK ANY LAWS, as least that the evidence shows, there is no evidence that he broke a law and that is what is needed, evidence.



What the fuck is wrong with you? He shot and killed somebody. There was a goddamn dead body there, that's your fucking evidence, you fucking racist.


Nordic,

Reign it in a bit, please. Address the topic, not the poster.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Hunter » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:26 am

Bruce Dazzling » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:54 pm wrote:
Nordic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:17 pm wrote:
HE DID NOT BREAK ANY LAWS, as least that the evidence shows, there is no evidence that he broke a law and that is what is needed, evidence.



What the fuck is wrong with you? He shot and killed somebody. There was a goddamn dead body there, that's your fucking evidence, you fucking racist.


Nordic,

Reign it in a bit, please. Address the topic, not the poster.

That was the most beautiful FREE FUCKING PASS I have ever seen Bruce, it is wonderful to know that a poster who has never, not a single time, ever attacked another poster on this forum in a personal manner, can be out and out called a fucking racist for explaning what every single legal expert in the world has been saying for a almost a week now, that there was not enough evidence for a 2nd degree murder charge EVEN AFTER EXPLAINING EACH TIME THAT I PERSONALLY HATE THAT FACT and WISH GZ WAS CONVICTED, for that I get called a racist and what does Bruce do. Absolutely fucking nothing, yet other posters are sent packing for the slighest of offenses just because they arent well liked and a part of the fucking in crowd around here.

This has become toxic, fucking toxic and it is because you moderators tolerate shit like that and are incredibly inconsistent in handing out your punishments.

Perhaps I overestimate my importance but I have had more than a few suggest to me that I contribute to the board in a postive manner and that they enjoy reading my posts and contributions so I think that is enough to say that you have lost yet another of the few posters around here who really, really tried to keep things civil and not personal.


Nice job, Bruce. Nice job indeed.
Last edited by Hunter on Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:32 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby mulebone » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:28 am

What the fuck is wrong with you? He shot and killed somebody. There was a goddamn dead body there, that's your fucking evidence, you fucking racist.


But I will tell you what, I am done here and I would like a mod to just go ahead and delete my account, I wont tolerate ever being called a racist and I have NEVER POSTED A SINGLE THING to indicate that I am racist, I have AGREED THAT THE VERDICT SUCKS and I am sickened by what GZ did I simply said there was no evidence to convict him on the charges filed and every single legal expert agrees so I guess we are all racist.

Mods you can go ahead and delete my account, since my time here I have seen nothing but mean spirited attacks on posters who are offering genuine and sincere and opinion and not attacking anyone, in fact I have never attacked anyone on this board or even been warned about such BUT THIS FORUM IS TOXIC and I want nothing more to do with it, I DEMAND you delete my posts and my name or I will deal with it through your host and server.


Geez, I love it when you pass/aggs bicker. It's so cute.

"Listen mudderfucker, I don't agree witcha opinion so yous a racist mudderfucker..."

"I am not a racist. Mom!!! Mom!!! Nordini called me a racist again...."

"Look little Buntcake, mommy's busy googling elite conspiracies. I don't have time to step in every time your brother calls you a name. Sticks & stones my little Internut addict....sticks & stones...."

"But MOMMMMMMIIIIIIIEEEEEEEE!!!! I'm...I'm...just....just so...so fucking outraged."

'Oh okay ya little whiner...Look Nordini...leave your little brother alone...you know he's sensitive...."

"Awwwwww Maaaaaaa!!!! Why do you always side with Buntcake? You love him more don't you?"

"Now see what you started Buntcake?"

"Fine. Fine & dandy. Screw you mom...I'm taking my goddamn ball & I'm going home...."


There's a neat societal metaphor here somewhere.
Well Robert Moore went down heavy
With a crash upon the floor
And over to his thrashin' body
Betty Coltrane she did crawl.
She put the gun to the back of his head
And pulled the trigger once more
And blew his brains out
All over the table.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby OP ED » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:59 am

actually i kind of agree with Hunter.

[even if it does come across as a little whiney and self-important, and believe me, OP ED knows self-important like no one]

not that i'm suggesting that Nordic should get a week's suspension or anything.

just that:

This has become toxic, fucking toxic and it is because you moderators tolerate shit like that and are incredibly inconsistent in handing out your punishments.


clearly you haven't been here anywhere near as long as you seem to think you have, because the toxicity level here is on the wane right now, overall.

although blaming the mods for people being assholes is probably not the best approach.

however i agree with the bit about inconsistency. not that it really bothers me overmuch, as i don't know you so i don't really care if anyone calls you a racist or not, honestly.

Perhaps I overestimate my importance



perhaps. it kinda looks that way.

Nice job, Bruce. Nice job indeed.


hah.

....

as to the topic, i'm not sure about the verdict. my guts say that GZ was probably another redneck shitkickin jerkoff who watches too much television and doesn't like all the trouble he believes the local niggers are responsible for.

proving that is something else entirely.

i agree with those who suggest that it doesn't appear that the prosecution fulfilled this to the extent i'm comfortable with in order to put someone in a cell.

whether or not they did so intentionally is likewise another discussion entirely. i would suggest that i'd be surprised if this wasn't the case.
....

however, i do think that allowing him to walk without even a ceremonial wrist slapping invites a very dangerous precedent with regard to interpretting the "stand your ground" law-thingies, insofar as it seems to encourage people with guns to go out looking for criminals. its not like he shot the kid in his back yard even. ["his ground"]

he shot him on the street, so he was standing someone else's ground, which seems like an open invitation to rampant vigilanteeism. this reading of the law could easily come back to haunt them. indeed, a clever person could easily use this to commit several kinds of murders without the slightest fear of penalty.

sowing the wind, and all that.
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby 8bitagent » Thu Jul 18, 2013 2:05 am

Hunter » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:26 am wrote:
Bruce Dazzling » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:54 pm wrote:
Nordic » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:17 pm wrote:
HE DID NOT BREAK ANY LAWS, as least that the evidence shows, there is no evidence that he broke a law and that is what is needed, evidence.



What the fuck is wrong with you? He shot and killed somebody. There was a goddamn dead body there, that's your fucking evidence, you fucking racist.


Nordic,

Reign it in a bit, please. Address the topic, not the poster.

That was the most beautiful FREE FUCKING PASS I have ever seen Bruce, it is wonderful to know that a poster who has never, not a single time, ever attacked another poster on this forum in a personal manner, can be out and out called a fucking racist for explaning what every single legal expert in the world has been saying for a almost a week now, that there was not enough evidence for a 2nd degree murder charge EVEN AFTER EXPLAINING EACH TIME THAT I PERSONALLY HATE THAT FACT and WISH GZ WAS CONVICTED, for that I get called a racist and what does Bruce do. Absolutely fucking nothing, yet other posters are sent packing for the slighest of offenses just because they arent well liked and a part of the fucking in crowd around here.

This has become toxic, fucking toxic and it is because you moderators tolerate shit like that and are incredibly inconsistent in handing out your punishments.

Perhaps I overestimate my importance but I have had more than a few suggest to me that I contribute to the board in a postive manner and that they enjoy reading my posts and contributions so I think that is enough to say that you have lost yet another of the few posters around here who really, really tried to keep things civil and not personal.


Nice job, Bruce. Nice job indeed.



Well know I would never make mean comments toward ya! I don't believe in gatekeeping.

The secret to this trial are two central questions, besides the obvious one of Zimmerman being out of his mind to fixate so much on this kid for no reason.
1) How did the struggle happen? Even as we all unanimously villify Zimmerman, is it possible Trayvon's intent was to cause brain injury or worse or simply to whoop some ass?
Was it ever established if Trayvon punched him or tackled him to the ground and then got on top of him? Or was it a mutual sort of wrestling that ended up on the grass?

2) How much of the case came down to his judge dad and the connections he had to the attorney general and district attorneys/police department and why wasnt more of this made?
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
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Re: Trayvon Martin

Postby Hunter » Thu Jul 18, 2013 7:36 am

Good questions 8bit and we dont have the answer for them, hence my continued reminder that there was simply not any evidence to support the charge, this does not mean he didnt do it, this do not mean I support the murder and GZ's actions, this does not mean any fucking thing other than the standard of proof, beyond reasonable doubt could not possibly be met with the the small amount of evidence that state had. I think there are people out there, actual legal experts who believe the state even threw the case, just went through the motions of a trial because they knew from day one there was not enough evidence to convict GZ and again THIS DOES NOT MEAN I AM ENDORSING WHAT HE DID or saying he didnt do what we all know he did and to appease the political unproar they simply held the trial and went through the motions knowing all along they had no chance at a conviction. I am simply saying the evidence is not there and you just cant put people in prison, no matter how much you hate them or how guilty you know they are, unless there is enough evidence for a jury to legally convict them, and in this case, sadly there was not. I wish there were, I really do because I HATE WHAT GZ and how his reckless behavior ended up killing Trayvon. I hate it as much as anyone, but the lack of evidence simply made it impossible, legally impossible to support a conviction of 2nd degree murder, had the state went for a lesser charge he probably would be in prison as we speak.



Also, I know its easy for some of you to just tell me to brush off the fact that I was just called a "fucking racist" but any honest observer on here knows every single one of you would have had a cow and probably acted a lot worse than I did had it happened to you, in fact several of you have acted the same way recently in the Icke thread, Joseph Campbell thread and the Boston Bombing thread and a few others, so dont be telling me to just brush it off when the lot of you went ballistic for someone just calling you an asshole within the last month on this very forum and people were sent packing for that, you can call me many things and I will brush it off, just about anything in fact but RACIST AND ANTISEMITE is off fucking limits unless you have some serious mother fucking evidence to support that sort of defamation because that is EXACTLY WHAT IT IS, it is defamation of character and you may think just because it is the internet you can get away with it but you are wrong, keep it up and you may just find out how wrong you are when you find yourself served with a civil lawsuit and held accountable for such behavior and I am not talking about me or you or anyone here being sued but in general it has happened and continues to happen and those who have been defamed have won such cases, right here on the good old internet where the laws are being written as we go since its all new and there is very little legal precedent to go on. I have never posted a single thing on this forum or any forum on the entire internet in two decades ever that is remotely racist so there is basis in fact for anyone to be calling me that for simply explaining what every other legal expert has been explaining all week, that the case was weak and the evidence to support the 2nd murder charge non-existent, that does not make me a racist in any way shape or form and I am disappointed, and rightfully so, that the moderators chose not to take that particular personal attack a little more seriously because that goes way beyond "youre an asshole" which is an exact statement that had caused several posters to be banned for a fucking WEEK by the same moderator who didnt even slap Nordic on the wrist for calling me one of the worst possible names you can call a person, especially when they are not even remotely such a thing and there is no evidence to even remotely support an argument that I MIGHT be such a thing, it was nothing but a low ball below the belt sucker punch that showed true colors on the part of a poster that I had previously a great deal of respect and admiration for and for which that respect and admiration will never again return because what was said is unforgivable and cannot be taken back or ever forgotten. So say what you want about self importance and call me all the names you want but racist is off limits and not something that should just be thrown around willy nilly because you are ignorant of the law and how our legal system operates and frustrated with the person who is trying to show you the error of your thinking.


I had a shitty day and was indeed in a pissy and whiny mood, go back and look at any post I have ever made on this forum and you will see I always overlooked the personal attacks and never have I once, not a single time in my time here, personally attacked any poster and I challenge anyone to find such an example of me doing so but you wont because you cant, it doesnt exist and its never happened, until tonight, I lost my cool because, like I said, being called a racist crosses every fucking line that has ever been drawn, you just dont call someone a racist or an antisemite unless you can back that shit up with some serious evidence and it is not to be used because you simply disagree with someone who is simply trying to explain what everyone else is trying to explain, why a moron why who killed a kid walked free, I explained it and admitted I hated it too, but I accept it because thats how our system works and to suggest we should suddenly LOWER the burden of proof that the state has to meet to get a conviction is fucking reckless, short sighted and completely insane and shows no ability to think long term and what exactly that would mean for the rest of us should we ever find ourselves in a situation where we are accused of something we didnt do but long ago we advocated that people can be put in prison on hunch and gut feeling so now you reap what you sow and off you go to prison for something you didnt do because even though there is no evidence, I as a juror have a hunch you did it and evidence is old school and no longer needed or respected so guilty you are and have a nice fucking day.
Last edited by Hunter on Thu Jul 18, 2013 8:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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