True Detective on HBO

[IanEye]

IanEye, the danger of being a genius interpreter is that you could wind up giving just about anything credit for being profound and enlightening, when it's actually just you doing the being-profound, doing the enlightening.

Perhaps.

what I don't get is how people don't see the influence True Detective could have had, how it missed and botched a golden opportunity.

This is the Beatles' first album.

_




It is my understanding that they got better.

.


let me whisper in your ear

.

[brekin]

Cohle:This is the Beatles' first album.

Marty: You really just compared True Detective to The Beatles?

It is my understanding that they got better.

How much fucking drugs did you do in narco?

Man you really are fucking crazier than a shit house rat.

[FourthBase]

I'm curious: How many of you scoff at "Scandal", take fans of that show for suckers?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/sty ... murderers/

p.s. And how about Law & Order: SVU? Do you realize how many episodes of that series have been in the RI ballpark? But nobody gives a shit, because it's not beautiful or mysterious enough, and it doesn't have ambitious cinematography bathing in slow pathos, isn't weird enough. Half the fucking murder-investigation cop dramas on network television delve into the general vicinity of RI at one point or another. This shit, our tinfoil-wrapped dungpile of taboo realities, has long been mainstreamed, but of course it's only ever suggestive softcore conspiracy-porn, superficial caricaturizations, vibes to accent a plotline by, always always unresolvable. What made True Detective fundamentally different from that longstanding tradition of pop culture facilely exploiting the genuinely disturbing and very fucking real shit we here examine because we genuinely care about the real world?

[Rory]

I'm curious: How many of you scoff at "Scandal", take fans of that show for suckers?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/sty ... murderers/

p.s. And how about Law & Order: SVU? Do you realize how many episodes of that series have been in the RI ballpark? But nobody gives a shit, beoikscause it's not beautiful or mysterious enough, and it doesn't have ambitious cinematography bathing in slow pathos, isn't weird enough. Half the fucking murder-investigation cop dramas on network television delve into the general vicinity of RI at one point or another. This shit, our tinfoil-wrapped dungpile of taboo realities, has long been mainstreamed, but of course it's only ever suggestive softcore conspiracy-porn, superficial caricaturizations, vibes to accent a plotline by, always always unresolvable. What made True Detective fundamentally different from that longstanding tradition of pop culture facilely exploiting the genuinely disturbing and very fucking real shit we here examine because we genuinely care about the real world?

Have you seen more than 0.00% of True Detective, yet?

I can safely say that (having watched Scandal, CSI, NICIS, etc..) that TD is, if that is the metric for comparative appraisal, comfortably superior in every which way, shape and form.

If you want it to be a panacea for the world's ills, then it will probably let you down. But it is excellent TV, if you just was to enjoy it as such.

[vondardanelle]

hi everyone, lonnnnnggggg-term lurker with a serious question that will sound argumentative but i don't mean it to. i read TD being compared to The Wire upthread and it being said that it failed to live up to the quality of the WIre. i've never seen the wire (i think i'm maybe the only one) but did it's airing result in any demonstrable, positive social changes? it would amaze me if it did, but i would love to be amazed by that news.

while i'm here i'll throw in my 2 cents re: TD. i enjoyed the show and i was also let down by the ending and aspects of the show throughout. but at the same time, by episode 6 i really had no idea how they could have wrapped up all of the things they had going on or suggested or hinted at in a really satisfying way, so i found the ending to be enjoyable in terms of giving the series some kind of closure. the weirdo-redneck-did-it was definitely very disappointing when you think about alot of things they might have done instead or in addition to that ending. i also think they could have done a better job with the women in the show as they seemed to be there for only one of 3 reasons-- 1)to die/be victims 2)to highlight aspects of the lead 2 characters 3)to take off their clothes.

but in terms of a tv show being a catalyst for change/justice, i agree with Ianeye's post above about Bryan Adams and can share a personal story around that. I was born and raised in east coast USA but in 2003 i was living in London and I went to the huge antiwar march/rally that was held when the US/UK invaded Iraq as I was against this war and wanted to participate in that. At the march I saw thousands of marchers holding signs that read various things to the effect "NO WAR IN IRAQ / ISRAEL OUT OF PALESTINE". Growing up with jewish family members and many jewish friends, all of us with a fairly typical suburban USA outlook on life, i literally never thought the situation was anything other than the very simplistic view that Israel was struggling for survival against a bunch of terrorists who were the "bad guys" (if i thought about at all, which i really didn't). it's astonishing to me now that that was my outlook for so many years. since that time my view has changed drastically and the education i've sought out since then is directly a result of me going to that rally and seeing those signs which i did not go to the rally for. clearly, me learning more about this situation hasn't improved it or brought about anything resembling justice, but in terms of changing the way one persons sees one part of the world (and maybe the wider world as well), it did that. i do not know the worth of that. similarly, a Gore Vidal essay in the Guardian made me want to learn more about 9/11. once again, there's no justice for me coming to know more about it, but my views changed as a result of reading that essay.

i believe that a person can only really learn something when that person is ready to receive new knowledge. i think this is a big reason why high school is a waste of time for alot of folks. i think most people viewing TD won't be ready to learn about ritual abuse and so they won't. but there may be some people who had no idea that this horrific phenomena existed and maybe they will try to learn more about it. i have no idea if that's worth anything in terms of real outcomes, and TD was definitely flawed and could have done a bunch of things better in my mind, but i do truly believe some more people are going to learn about ritual abuse. at the very least there will be people reading about Ponchatoula who would not have before this.

also, i dont really know that the impact of this show will be any different from the impact of shows like Law & Order, but to me it seemed different because the director and writer seemed to put more of their art into it. TD was in no way some kind of expose or anything like that, but i do think it got a little deeper and the writing and cinematography both clearly had a personal touch lacking in most cop shows. that 6 minute long take at the end of episode 4 that everyone raves about, that was pretty special, you dont see things like that even in films anymore.

[FourthBase]

I can safely say that (having watched Scandal, CSI, NICIS, etc..) that TD is, if that is the metric for comparative appraisal, comfortably superior in every which way, shape and form.

No doubt it's superior, but it's a superior version of the same kind of thing.

[justdrew]

well, I think the audience should be well aware that a bunch of culprits got away, that awareness could be a good thing. (Remember one of the rich perps got killed by his own people after he lost the photos and tape.)

So it's possible the series would leave a desire to see more complete investigations in the future IRL.

I still think the eps would have been better at two hours vs one hour and it does seem possible there was a lot of stuff written that ended up cut.

[brekin]

vondardanelle wrote:

hi everyone, lonnnnnggggg-term lurker with a serious question that will sound argumentative but i don't mean it to. i read TD being compared to The Wire upthread and it being said that it failed to live up to the quality of the WIre. i've never seen the wire (i think i'm maybe the only one) but did it's airing result in any demonstrable, positive social changes? it would amaze me if it did, but i would love to be amazed by that news.

Welcome, you watching long time from the shadows and no worries about sounding argumentative.
Well, I have obviously no polling data or causal link to a bill being passed-- but what The Wire did--was after 40 years of "crime shows" demonizing people in the drug trade from poverty ridden areas as just twisted criminals of opportunity it showed them as humans thrown into a societal structure that left few opportunities to resist becoming part of the drug culture as either addicts, dealers, cops, caregivers or victims. It's kind of how in the old cowboy shows Indians were portrayed. In fact, by showing how society worked at all levels in a big city in relation to corruption and the drug trade, The Wire laid out how any other result in the futile drug war was impossible. The positive, social change was that middle white America (the ones who watched it for the most part, at least) were confronted with a narrative that stepped them through how the system really works, a system they may have only glimpsed or been run over once or twice but operates nakedly in the urban ghetto 24/7.

Here's a former Baltimore mayor on The Wire:

The Wire began its final season this past weekend. The city of Baltimore begins this year with a new mayor (the first woman to serve in that office) and fresh optimism about its ability to build on its strengths and minimise its weaknesses. However, most will recognise that until there are improvements in national drug control policy, the war on drugs on the streets of Baltimore will yield no final victories. That is a reality that is conveyed in The Wire.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... albaltimor

It also happened to be Obama's favorite show. That probably has not resulted in any changes from his end. But at least he's aware of what the ship he's steering is doing. Whereas, Reagan who started the drug war in earnest was probably watching Gunsmoke. But Obama also seems to be a fan of True Detective now, which probably is the best testament to the direction our country has slipped under his presidency. No word on his thoughts on the finale, but I have a email in. Just kidding.

In short, you really have to watch The Wire while I don't think Fourthbase has to watch True Detective. One is ambrosia, the other is a lame party drug that promises enlightenment but just leaves you with a splitting headache and a nagging sense of loss.

[lucky]

I am only up to eps 2 and am scared of readin this thread for running in to spoilers - which is a shame as I think Im enjoying it.It does have that sense of forboding and I like the back and forth time sequences of the cop/longhaired drop out - not sure how its all going to finish but by time it has this thtread will no doubt be too vast to read : ( i never watched the wire either and only caught 2 series of BBad

[vondardanelle]

Welcome, you watching long time from the shadows and no worries about sounding argumentative.
Well, I have obviously no polling data or causal link to a bill being passed-- but what The Wire did--was after 40 years of "crime shows" demonizing people in the drug trade from poverty ridden areas as just twisted criminals of opportunity it showed them as humans thrown into a societal structure that left few opportunities to resist becoming part of the drug culture as either addicts, dealers, cops, caregivers or victims. It's kind of how in the old cowboy shows Indians were portrayed. In fact, by showing how society worked at all levels in a big city in relation to corruption and the drug trade, The Wire laid out how any other result in the futile drug war was impossible. The positive, social change was that middle white America (the ones who watched it for the most part, at least) were confronted with a narrative that stepped them through how the system really works, a system they may have only glimpsed or been run over once or twice but operates nakedly in the urban ghetto 24/7.

Here's a former Baltimore mayor on The Wire:

The Wire began its final season this past weekend. The city of Baltimore begins this year with a new mayor (the first woman to serve in that office) and fresh optimism about its ability to build on its strengths and minimise its weaknesses. However, most will recognise that until there are improvements in national drug control policy, the war on drugs on the streets of Baltimore will yield no final victories. That is a reality that is conveyed in The Wire.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... albaltimor

It also happened to be Obama's favorite show. That probably has not resulted in any changes from his end. But at least he's aware of what the ship he's steering is doing. Whereas, Reagan who started the drug war in earnest was probably watching Gunsmoke. But Obama also seems to be a fan of True Detective now, which probably is the best testament to the direction our country has slipped under his presidency. No word on his thoughts on the finale, but I have a email in. Just kidding.

In short, you really have to watch The Wire while I don't think Fourthbase has to watch True Detective. One is ambrosia, the other is a lame party drug that promises enlightenment but just leaves you with a splitting headache and a nagging sense of loss.

thanks for that, brekin. and i think i agree with your statement that fourthbase (or anyone) doesn't have to watch TD. i definitely enjoyed it and i believe it will spur some people to learn more about some of things it brought up, but i don't think it's essential viewing. although, as i type this i can't think of a tv show that i would consider essential viewing (maybe because i haven't seen the wire?). but if one were deciding between watching a law & order type show or TD i would definitely recommend TD.

[Laodicean]

T-Bone hits the grand slam. But this ain't no fucking game.

The emptiness that we confess
In the dimmest hour of day
In Automatown they make a sound
Like the low sad moan of prey

The bitter taste the hidden face
Of the lost forgotten child
The darkest need the slowest speed
The debt unreconciled

These photographs mean nothing
To the poison that they take
Before a moment’s glory
The light begins to fade

The awful cost of all we lost
As we looked the other way
We’ve paid the price of this cruel device
Till we’ve nothing left to pay

The river goes where the current flows
The light we must destroy
Events conspire to set afire
The methods we employ

These dead men walk on water
Cold blood runs through their veins
The angry river rises
As we step into the rain

These photographs mean nothing
To the poison that they take
The angry river rises
As we step into the rain

[Laodicean]

For brekin. We feel ya homey. Some do deserve to see more.

[FourthBase]

Well, however much that YouTube clip counts, I've now seen in some form more than 0.00% of the show. What is the six minute scene or whatever that you all talk about? Is it on YouTube? I like cutting to the chase. How many people do you know who've read a bunch on the show, but only seen that T-Bone thing and that one sublime/profound scene? That'll be me. I wonder how I will think of the show via that introduction.

But this ain't no fucking game.

I grok the sentiment, but there is a challenge:
Be right. Get reality the rightest.

Truth = victory. Justice = victory.
Mystification & fatalism = loss.
Defeatists are pre-defeated.

Those who've been greenlighted to tell stories in our major media have the ball.
They can choose either to play to win or not to play to win.
To win our game, the Truth game, or theirs, the Arty game.
They chose to play their game, to make transgression fashionable.
Worse, they chose to concede victory in the Truth game before it even began.

But, hey, my mind is nearly always subject to change.
I suppose it's inevitable that I'll wind up seeing the show.
I do insist on having the right to not have to see it to be able to judge.
But, fine, bring it. Link me to some critical/deep/powerful scenes. Thx.

[norton ash]

Loved, loved the T-Bone score for TD. And I'm sure the Handsome Family made out handsomely, I had never heard 'Far from Any Road' before (my first assumption was it might be Nick Cave) and that song is some kind of earworm. I've been bass-groaning my own stupid gothic-desert lyrics to the dog.

As the cactus all start swaying
and the antelope explode
I will kiss your dried-out hair
Cause I'm a horny toad

[kelley]

Loved, loved the T-Bone score for TD.

channeling the epic dread of those hazelwood /sinatra duets.