Conspiracy Against the Human Race by Thomas Ligotti

[Forgetting2]

In the first episode, that scene in the car with Rust is very nearly a quote from the Ligotti book. Just by memory I'm sayin'… But that's the set up for his character.

[Belligerent Savant]

Rust Cohle quotes:

"I think human consciousness, is a tragic misstep in evolution. We became too self-aware, nature created an aspect of nature separate from itself, we are creatures that should not exist by natural law. We are things that labor under the illusion of having a self; an accretion of sensory, experience and feeling, programmed with total assurance that we are each somebody, when in fact everybody is nobody. Maybe the honorable thing for our species to do is deny our programming, stop reproducing, walk hand in hand into extinction, one last midnight - brothers and sisters opting out of a raw deal."

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward then, brother, that person is a piece of s***. And I’d like to get as many of them out in the open as possible. You gotta get together and tell yourself stories that violate every law of the universe just to get through the goddamn day? What’s that say about your reality?"

"Back then, the visions...most of the time I was convinced that I'd lost it. But there were other times, I thought I was main-lining the secret truth of the universe."

"The world needs bad men. We keep the other bad men from the door."

"Death created time to grow the things that it would kill."

"To realize that all your life—you know, all your love, all your hate, all your memory, all your pain—it was all the same thing. It was all the same dream. A dream that you had inside a locked room. A dream about being a person. And like a lot of dreams there's a monster at the end of it."

"F***, I don't want to know anything anymore. This is a world where nothing is solved. Someone once told me, 'Time is a flat circle.' Everything we've ever done or will do, we're gonna do over and over and over again. And that little boy and that little girl, they're gonna be in that room again and again and again forever."

SPOILER ALERT BELOW:
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Marty: “Talk to me, Rust.”

Rust: “There was a moment, I know, when I was under in the dark, that something… whatever I’d been reduced to, not even consciousness, just a vague awareness in the dark. I could feel my definitions fading. And beneath that darkness there was another kind—it was deeper—warm, like a substance. I could feel man, I knew, I knew my daughter waited for me, there. So clear. I could feel her. I could feel … I could feel the peace of my Pop, too. It was like I was part of everything that I have ever loved, and we were all, the three of us, just fading out. And all I had to do was let go, man. And I did. I said, ‘Darkness, yeah.’ and I disappeared. But I could still feel her love there. Even more than before. Nothing. Nothing but that love. And then I woke up.”

Rust breaks down, sobbing.

Marty: “Didn’t you tell me one time, dinner once, maybe, about how you used to ... you used to make up stories about the stars?”

Rust: “Yeah, that was in Alaska, under the night skies.”

Marty: “Yeah, you used to lay there and look up, at the stars?”

Rust: “Yeah, I think you remember how I never watched the TV until I was 17, so there wasn’t much to do up there but walk around, explore, and...”

Marty: “And look up at the stars and make up stories. Like what?”

Rust: “I tell you Marty I been up in that room looking out those windows every night here just thinking, it’s just one story. The oldest.”

Marty: “What’s that?”

Rust: “Light versus dark.”

Marty: “Well, I know we ain’t in Alaska, but it appears to me that the dark has a lot more territory.”

Rust: “Yeah, you’re right about that.”

Rust insists that Marty help him leave the hospital, and Marty agrees. As they head to the car, Rust makes one final point to his former partner.

Rust: “You’re looking at it wrong, the sky thing.”

Marty: “How’s that?”

Rust: “Well, once there was only dark. You ask me, the light’s winning.”

[FourthBase]

You ask me, the light’s winning.

Beautiful, and true.

And that's what the antinatalists consider a schlocky optimistic note?

The fatalism in this "deep" pessimism shit is both useless and FALSE.
That goes for about half of this board, Jeff included.
Y'all need to snap the fuck out of it.

[Forgetting2]

I think I'm the only one here who called the ending 'a bit trite.' Although I wouldn't call myself an antinatalist. Mostly I think the character didn't really 'earn' that turn, in terms of dramatic storytelling. And, well, in terms of tacking on a 'love conquers all' ending on a show that got this deep into pessimistic territory, I'd say 'trite' kind of fits the bill.

As to whether or not love really does conquer all, I couldn't say.


Edited because I realize that's a bit of a spoiler there.

[Pushkarev]

I wrote a large post here on reddit (on a throwaway account) with philosophers similar to Ligotti: http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/c ... rs/cfddda3

Be forewarned though, many of those writers are dark. I don't find Thomas Metzinger dark, but Metzinger has an odd effect of making other people go mad from his views.

You probably want to even it out with Morton's The Ecological Thought, which takes the various strands of contemporary nihilistic philosophical movements (like some parts of speculative realism) and gives them a positive spin. Also, a second warning: the above link is nearly all philosophical writing. Metzinger's works (apart from The Ego Tunnel) are hard core analytic philosophy (as is Bostrom and Leslie), while the speculative realists like Brassier and Morton are influenced by continental styles. If you've encountered either, and didn't major in philosophy (or read any in your spare time), you might find them impenetrable, boring, or just plain crap. Cioran is pretty plain speaking though (but pretty dark). If you were start to anywhere, Cioran would be a good place to start.

[0_0]

or here: http://www.graycadence.com/OntheSufferingoftheWorld.pdf

"The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other."

[FourthBase]

or here: http://www.graycadence.com/OntheSufferingoftheWorld.pdf

"The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other."

Yeah, I get that. I've considered life itself cursed and I've condemned our entire species before for being murderous ghouls. I've been on a metaphorical ledge, and, spiritually: I jumped. And then I got up and I realized that the world is very, very, very, very, very, very, very old. And we have only just begun to exert the force of the miracle of our consciences, and there's a long, long, long way to go. And so instead of consigning the world and ourselves to some pit of unforgivable, irredeemable hell I've decided to try to accentuate the positive, of which there is way, way, way more than the depressives who fetishize doom would like to acknowledge, lest it fuck up their "deep sadness" schtick.

[0_0]

It's not a ""deep sadness" schtick" -imo- it is a correct appraisal of the world. And it leads to a conclusion that might surprise you.

[FourthBase]

It's not a ""deep sadness" schtick" -imo- it is a correct appraisal of the world. And it leads to a conclusion that might surprise you.

It's biased, morose, gratuitously-negative horseshit.
Just because it's more negative, doesn't make it truer.
That's what a lot of you think. Or, more accurately: FEEL.
You're predisposed to reject optimism as inauthentic or some shit.

[0_0]

Well it seems to me you are the one feeling, and feeling very strongly at that, so i will just leave it there. Please pardon my manure.

[FourthBase]

Well it seems to me you are the one feeling, and feeling very strongly at that, so i will just leave it there. Please pardon my manure.

Uh, please. I can cogitate endlessly as well as anyone. If you'd all like to have a boring, abstract debate about this crap, I'm game for that. Spoiler alert: I will win. Yes, I feel. Yes, strongly. I don't pretend otherwise. I have made a judgment call about life, it's grounded in years of contemplation and struggle, in millions of words, and it's nearly the opposite of this Ligotti asshole. I would love to humiliate him in a public debate. As long and as pretentious a debate as he'd like. His shit, and shit like it, needs to be intellectually destroyed, because it is POISON. It is NOT TRUTH.

[mulebone]

I would love to humiliate him in a public debate.

Wow! You're not completely fucked up. Nope. Not in the least. No mental problems there. It's too bad the rest of the world doesn't realize the epic extent of your wisdom. Must be a bummer to know so much yet to be recognized by so few.

It'll probably be a bit of a stretch to get Ligotti to debate ya though, since I do believe he's a recluse.

Then again, maybe you can e-mail him. Challenge him to an idea duel. Let me help ya write it:

Dear Tommy, I think you're a piece of shit. I think your ideas are pretty poopy too. You obviously don't know nearly as much as I know about life so I need to prove this publicly by a good shaming. Interested?

Who am I? Your worst nightmare buddy. Or, better yet, your most positive wet dream. I've been to the ledge buddy, and I've jumped. Of course, the ledge wasn't too high since I got up. But when I got up I realized THE TRUTH. & you ain't got it Tommy boy.

Sincerely
Some guy on the Internut

That should work wonders.

But when it comes to existential judgements, human beings in general have an unfalteringly good opinion of themselves and their condition in this world and are steadfastly confident that they are not a collection of self conscious nothings.

[brekin]

Whoah, Fourthbase I feel you on Ligotti, but I think you need to cut down on the tiger's milk.

Uh, please. I can cogitate endlessly as well as anyone.

If you'd all like to have a boring, abstract debate about this crap, I'm game for that.

Spoiler alert: I will win.

Yes, I feel. Yes, strongly. I don't pretend otherwise.

I have made a judgment call about life, it's grounded in years of contemplation and struggle, in millions of words, and it's nearly the opposite of this Ligotti asshole.

I would love to humiliate him in a public debate. As long and as pretentious a debate as he'd like.

His shit, and shit like it, needs to be intellectually destroyed, because it is POISON. It is NOT TRUTH.

[seemslikeadream]

I think he mixed that tiger's milk this morning with Carnation Instant Bitch.

[IanEye]

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When pondering the dreadfulness of the human condition, one could do worse than consulting with Friedrich Nietzsche & H.P. Lovecraft.

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