Gun attack on French magazine Charlie Hebdo kills 11

[solace]

"Is this Paris gunmen's last stand? Fugitive Charlie Hebdo killers 'abandon car and hide out in woods' as special forces and police helicopters close in after dramatic chase through France

Dragnet closing on brothers Cherif and Said Kouachi as manhunt by terror police zeroes in on area of north France
They are believed to have fled on foot, still armed, into 32,000-acre forest - bigger than Paris - 80km from the capital
Officers are said to have found a Molotov cocktail bomb and jihadist flag in their car which they abandoned nearby
Dozens of armed police swarm into nearby villages to conduct house-to-house searches and set up road blocks
Properties in village of Longpont surrounded by special forces as one officer warns MailOnline: 'This is not a game'
Shocked diners evacuated from restaurant while they were eating lunch over immediate fears for their safety
Men fitting suspects' description robbed garage while driving 'Renault Clio with Kalashnikovs and rocket launchers'
Questions will be asked why Frenchmen with links to terror were apparently given free reign to carry out atrocity
Seven connected to two main suspects arrested in towns of Reims, Charleville-Mezieres and the Paris area
Third terror alert in Paris as another gunman is on loose - hours after PC shot dead by 'North African wielding rifle'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3OFhPVXDu

[justdrew]

Yeah, cuz letting everyday folks accuse their neighbors of something works so well ... didn't we already do that to great effect in Iraq and Afghanistan, sending innocent sheep herders to Abu Ghraib in the like?

Kinda like SWATting your enemies here in the Statese...

well, one way nations subject to drone strikes could accelerate the end of those strike, would be to help identify, capture or kill terrorist organizations operating in those countries.

Oh I know. Just phoning in tips isn't going to be the perfect solution. But what? Are we just to throw up our hands and say, "well, societies have NO method by which they can defeat small bands of armed terrorists operating in their midst?"

Finding an effective and lowest possible false positives method is an urgent issue. Both for the purpose of stopping "real" terror and for stopping possible "false flag" terror. Not just for the middle east, but also for countries such as Mexico. Or do we just turn it all over to lawless murderers?

The US _seems_ to have successfully got through such an era itself perhaps? The Outlaw Era (the time of the "public enemy number one approach") and the "untouchables" approach to anti-gang, and what about the "old west" (I suppose it wasn't really as dominated by gun-crazy murderous outlaws as movies made it out to be, but somehow, way back then, civilization was able to mount an effective response. Why are we so seeming unable to do shit about this today?

[slimmouse]

Or do we just turn it all over to lawless murderers?

Did We not actually, Historically within this reality, do that a long while ago?

Why are we so seeming unable to do shit about this today?

See above.

[seemslikeadream]

France

military or police response?

shooters' grandfather was from Algeria

[semper occultus]

....David Kilcullen's the go-to fellow for this amongst those who really count isn't he....

“Required reading” (Fareed Zakaria)
“Excellent” (The Economist)

http://www.iar-gwu.org/node/193

( or was ...has his reputation survived the withdrawal in glory from Afghan )

[slimmouse]

I should add, that in complete ignorance of any of the facts other than those in the comments here, that all of this looks and sounds like a very professional hit job, with the immediate suspects already lined up for the treatment.

[seemslikeadream]

Charlie Hebdo Tragedy Creates Momentum for German Right Wing
Simon Shuster / Berlin @shustry 12:32 PM ET

The protests against "Islamization" in the German city of Dresden will now have a new rallying cry


On Wednesday afternoon, just a few hours after the massacre at the French satirical magazine Charlie Hebdo, the newest right-wing movement in neighboring Germany took the chance to declare itself prophetic. Since it was founded in October, the group known as Pegida – or Patriotic Europeans Against the Islamization of the West – had been rallying every Monday in the city of Dresden to warn against the threat it saw from an influx of Muslim immigrants. Now, with Islamic extremists suspected of attacking the Paris newsroom of Charlie Hebdo, the Pegida movement felt its cause was validated.


“The Islamists, which Pegida has been warning about for 12 weeks, showed France that they are not capable of democracy, but instead look to violence and death as an answer,” the group said on its Facebook page. “Our politicians want us to believe the opposite. Must such a tragedy happen here in Germany first?”

The slaughter at Charlie Hebdo, which was apparently attacked for publishing cartoons that mocked the Muslim Prophet Mohamed, could not have come at a more opportune time for Pegida and its activists. Their weekly protests against the perceived “Islamization” of Germany had been gaining momentum for months, but not quite as fast as the public and political backlash against them. German Chancellor Angela Merkel had even used her televised address on New Year’s Eve to condemn Pegida’s activists as having “coldness and even hate in their hearts.” Since mid-December, counter-demonstrations calling for tolerance and openness toward Muslim migrants around the country had begun to drown out Pegida’s rallies in Dresden.

But that trend could now be reversed. “The movement itself will definitely interpret [the attack on Charlie Hebdo] as a vindication for its very existence,” says Karool Kersten, who studies Islam at King’s College University in London.

That was clear from the reactions coming from the more established forces on Germany’s political right. Frank Franz, the chairman of the far-right NDP party, which has supported the Pegida demonstrations, declared on Wednesday in a Facebook post that the terrorist attack in Paris had revealed the “brutal and hateful grimace” of European multiculturalism. The leaders of another right-wing party, Alternative for Germany, or AfD, also chimed in with their support. Against the background of the massacre in Paris, “the demands of Pegida have particular relevance and weight,” said the party’s spokesman and one of its founding members, Alexander Gauland.

Even a week ago Pegida’s relevance was still an open question. The region of Saxony, where the movement was formed this fall, is one of the most racially homogenous in the country, with Muslim immigrants making up less than one percent of the population. Its most recent rally on Jan. 5 in the regional capital of Dresden was the largest to date, drawing some 18,000 people. But that showing was dwarfed by the counter-demonstrations held in several cities around the country, including Cologne and Berlin.

“Pegida is only a small story,” says Andreas Zick, who studies social conflicts at Germany’s Bielefeld University. And its attempt to gain political heft on the back of the Charlie Hebdo tragedy has seemed predictable enough.

The larger question is whether the ploy will work, as it has previously in other parts of Europe. A decade ago, in the fall of 2004, the Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, whose works had been harshly critical of Islam, was gunned down in Amsterdam by a Muslim extremist, causing a surge of anti-Islamic feeling throughout the Netherlands, says Hersten, the professor from King’s College London. “Here was a country that always defined itself through tolerance, and suddenly the gloves came off,” he says. “These kinds of atrocities often lead people to cross that threshold.”

The right-wing politician Geert Wilders, then a marginal figure in Dutch politics, drew on that outrage to gain support for his Party of Freedom, which he established within a year of Van Gogh’s murder. Today that party is one of the most prominent forces in the national parliament, and its xenophobic rhetoric enjoys strong support.

Given the dark history of World War II, Germany has for years been particularly resistant to the emergence of such political forces from the right. But the mood seems ripe for that to change. A survey conducted in December by the German news outlet Zeit Online found that nearly half of respondents expressed some level of sympathy for the Pegida rallies against “Islamization.” And in the wake of the attacks against Charlie Hebdo, Pegida’s Facebook page has racked up an additional 8,000 supporters, bringing its total list of followers to nearly 122,000.

So when the group holds its next demonstration on Monday in Dresden, it will have a lot more momentum, and a new rallying cry, thanks to the terrorist attack in neighboring France. The coming months could then see the emergence of a powerful new force on the right wing of German politics.

[Nordic]

...what did you have in mind ...kicking up a fuss about their budget...?

......sorry.....back up to speed now.....

Apparently this is what the now-censored article was about:

http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Confl ... -UN-386493

Israel tells France it was 'deeply disappointed' by vote at UN



French Ambassador defends pro-resolution vote, says it should re-trigger negotiations.

UN Headquarters
Delegates sit for a Security Council meeting at the UN Headquarters in New York. (photo credit:REUTERS)


Israel on Friday formally expressed its “deep disappointment” to France for voting on Tuesday for a Palestinian resolution at the UN Security Council calling for a full IDF withdrawal to the pre-1967 lines by the end of 2017.

The Foreign Ministry’s director-general for Western Europe, Aviv Shir On, called France’s Ambassador Patrick Maisonnave to the ministry in Jerusalem and said that the only way for progress to be made on the diplomatic track with the Palestinians was through direct negotiations and not through unilateral actions or declarations.

Maisonnave said that Paris believes there is a need to take action to move the sides back to the table, and for that reason supported the Palestinian resolution.

France was one of eight countries that supported the Palestinian bid in the Security Council, a bid that fell one-vote short of the nine necessary to pass, and which then would have triggered a US veto. The US and Australia voted against the measure, and five countries – Rwanda, Nigeria, South Korea, Britain and Lithuania – abstained.

Diplomatic officials said that there was little likelihood that France’s vote would damage Israeli-French ties, though Paris has lost some credibility with Israel’s leadership, something that could hurt its ambitions to play a leading role in the diplomatic process.

The officials pointed out that while France’s position on the Palestinian resolution was “problematic,” Paris has taken a very positive role from Israel’s standpoint in the negotiations that the P5+1 – the US, Russia, China, Britain, France and Germany – are conducting with Iran.

The decision to summon Maisonnave to Jerusalem to issue a formal protest articulated the surprise and frustration in Jerusalem at the French vote. France was also working on a resolution to bring to the Security Council that – though not to Israel’s liking – was more moderate in its language than the Palestinian resolution that was put forward.

Over the past two weeks there were efforts to “merge” the two resolutions, efforts that the Palestinians foiled by insisting on tougher language. When the Palestinians rejected the French proposal, Israel expected that the French would vote against the Palestinian one, and was surprised when they did not.

[elfismiles]

Yeah, I don't know either JD ... I just have an extreme anti-knee-jerk-reaction to the idea of using force against force like that.

Oh I know. Just phoning in tips isn't going to be the perfect solution. But what? Are we just to throw up our hands and say, "well, societies have NO method by which they can defeat small bands of armed terrorists operating in their midst?"

Finding an effective and lowest possible false positives method is an urgent issue. Both for the purpose of stopping "real" terror and for stopping possible "false flag" terror. Not just for the middle east, but also for countries such as Mexico. Or do we just turn it all over to lawless murderers?

The US _seems_ to have successfully got through such an era itself perhaps? The Outlaw Era (the time of the "public enemy number one approach") and the "untouchables" approach to anti-gang, and what about the "old west" (I suppose it wasn't really as dominated by gun-crazy murderous outlaws as movies made it out to be, but somehow, way back then, civilization was able to mount an effective response. Why are we so seeming unable to do shit about this today?

[MinM]

Liberation says the card was dropped in the black Citroen they hijacked. That's ridiculous.

Seems vaguely similar to Boston, the Kenyan Mall, 7/7 and 9/11.

[alan ford]

http://ind.pn/1s5EV8w



White Male Bourgeois Resilience meme is the worst meme.

It's been snowing tonight in Gaza. More will die there of hypothermia tonight than died in Paris today.

This was posted a few pages back, I just had time now to write something in defence of "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme":

In his book "The Golden Bough" J.Fraser tells a story told from a tribe somewhere in Africa about hunting the wild animal ( can't find a passage on internet so from memory ). For the hunt to be well executed there are 4 men needed to hunt together:

1. There is a person who prays to the gods for the hunt, asks the animal for forgivness etc. if you wish spiritual leader

2. There is a person who decides which way to go, what to take for a trip, where to set up a base and similar if you wish earthly leader.

3. There is a person who will track the animal, kill, and prepare it if you wish a worker.

4. The fourth one equally important for a good hunt doesn't have any other function but to constantly remind other 3 about their failures in the past e.g. he'll remind person 1 about the time he prayed and nothing was caught, person 2 about the time when he took them to area without any animals, person 3 when he missed the target and so on; if you wish this is a court jester, Fool in tarot cards, joker.

This is story as told by "primitive" society, what the story tells us is that by instnict people knew long time ago that fool is needed in society, and is indeed irreplaceable role. Of course the Fool in ourselves gives as opportunity to say "Emporer is naked" and by the virtue of government and religion who claim to have absolute answers and see themselves as such, they are perfect challenge for any fool. This would be the position of Charlie Hebdo and the cartoon presented. Let's also assume that the real Fool will mock any rigidity, hypocrisy,nonsense, stupidity coming from either left, right, centre, feminists, PETA, RI board if you wish, after all what kind of court jester is the one allowed to make jokes about other court only?

Now as we accept this as an instinct knowledge in the human history, of course there is a lot of resistance to the role of the Fool coming from not only categories of government or religion but "regular" people as well, and here comes the "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" part.

For a long time thinkers, philoshopers, artists, satirists etc. are trying to make a jump from "instinctive knowledge" to "the idea acceptance" of the Fool, where reasoning should accept that all of us could be mocked by the Fool, the perfect Fool will mock him/her self too. The shooting to the Charlie Hebdo was the shooting into the idea as such; regardless who pulled the trigger and that's why is so shocking.

The Fool in ourselves including "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people is strongly reacting to this .

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people in the past and present who were trying to intelectually define the idea of the Fool, could have been or still could be defined as "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people, as a matter of fact probably some of the people killed would have fit "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" description yet they were killed for belonging to that group .

So if you talking about them your statement is baseless - there is no meme here - they were killed for being what they are.

If you are talking about the caricature that you quoted I find it very well suited to the event ( middle finger and all that ) .

As for the second part of the post saying about Gaza and snow - completely irrelevant to the shooting - unless you are saying that shooting is not as important as the number of people who will die in Gaza, I guess that's the only connection I can assume, I just tried to explain why does it touch all of people who have at least a part of the Fool in themselves including "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people.

[alan ford]

http://ind.pn/1s5EV8w



White Male Bourgeois Resilience meme is the worst meme.

It's been snowing tonight in Gaza. More will die there of hypothermia tonight than died in Paris today.

This was posted a few pages back, I just had time now to write something in defence of "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme":

In his book "The Golden Bough" J.Fraser tells a story told from a tribe somewhere in Africa about hunting the wild animal ( can't find a passage on internet so from memory ). For the hunt to be well executed there are 4 men needed to hunt together:

1. There is a person who prays to the gods for the hunt, asks the animal for forgivness etc. if you wish spiritual leader

2. There is a person who decides which way to go, what to take for a trip, where to set up a base and similar if you wish earthly leader.

3. There is a person who will track the animal, kill, and prepare it if you wish a worker.

4. The fourth one equally important for a good hunt doesn't have any other function but to constantly remind other 3 about their failures in the past e.g. he'll remind person 1 about the time he prayed and nothing was caught, person 2 about the time when he took them to area without any animals, person 3 when he missed the target and so on; if you wish this is a court jester, Fool in tarot cards, joker.

This is story as told by "primitive" society, what the story tells us is that by instnict people knew long time ago that fool is needed in society, and is indeed irreplaceable role. Of course the Fool in ourselves gives as opportunity to say "Emporer is naked" and by the virtue of government and religion who claim to have absolute answers and see themselves as such, they are perfect challenge for any fool. This would be the position of Charlie Hebdo and the cartoon presented. Let's also assume that the real Fool will mock any rigidity, hypocrisy,nonsense, stupidity coming from either left, right, centre, feminists, PETA, RI board if you wish, after all what kind of court jester is the one allowed to make jokes about other court only?

Now as we accept this as an instinct knowledge in the human history, of course there is a lot of resistance to the role of the Fool coming from not only categories of government or religion but "regular" people as well, and here comes the "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" part.

For a long time thinkers, philoshopers, artists, satirists etc. are trying to make a jump from "instinctive knowledge" to "the idea acceptance" of the Fool, where reasoning should accept that all of us could be mocked by the Fool, the perfect Fool will mock him/her self too. The shooting to the Charlie Hebdo was the shooting into the idea as such; regardless who pulled the trigger and that's why is so shocking.

The Fool in ourselves including "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people is strongly reacting to this .

What I'm trying to say is that a lot of people in the past and present who were trying to intelectually define the idea of the Fool, could have been or still could be defined as "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people, as a matter of fact probably some of the people killed would have fit "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" description yet they were killed for belonging to that group .

So if you talking about them your statement is baseless - there is no meme here - they were killed for being what they are.

If you are talking about the caricature that you quoted I find it very well suited to the event ( middle finger and all that ) .

As for the second part of the post saying about Gaza and snow - completely irrelevant to the shooting - unless you are saying that shooting is not as important as the number of people who will die in Gaza, I guess that's the only connection I can assume, I just tried to explain why does it touch all of people who have at least a part of the Fool in themselves including "White male Bourgeois Resilience meme" people.

[cptmarginal]

Does anybody think these guys are really members of Al-Qaeda in Yemen? Frank Rich pointed out that there was a more deadly terror attack yesterday when 37 people were killed in Yemen, of all places. Once again police are searching for two muslim brother terrorists, but this time not as photogenic. What will this do for sales of Michel Houellebecq's new novel, which was published yesterday? Is the premise now more or less likely?

Thanks to jingofever for bringing this up, and to stefano for expanding on it...

"...this is a perfect gift for the extreme right."

Sure seems like it...

[cptmarginal]

Watching tonight: Jean-Luc Godard's Le Petit Soldat

[Jerky]

Thanks, Alan Ford, for your thoughtful and substantive reply to a provocation that, quite frankly, did not deserve such.

Personally, I was just going to tell Kenoma to fuck right off with his (or her) leftier-than-thou bullshit knee-jerk reaction, but now, thanks to you, I don't have to.

Jerky