Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 am wrote:Alan Ford (maybe I should call you Whitey,*) don't start racist poker with me, i've got plenty of cards to play against your ingrained and unrecognised white surpremacy. You're just like Charlie h.
In his book "The Golden Bough" J.Fraser tells a story told from a tribe somewhere in Africa about hunting the wild animal
....
This is story as told by "primitive" society, what the story tells us is that by instnict people knew long time ago that fool is needed in society, and is indeed irreplaceable role.
Thats you, here:
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 75#p558671I dunno why you bothered to use quotation marks around any words, you clearly think African "tribes" are primitive, and can only know things by instinct, instead of obervation, logic, analytical thinking and deduction. I hope you don't think that cos they're black or african or in a book or something...
You say about one of the Charlie H. cartoons that it's racist, than you say you know it's not racist but you'll use that word anyway.
Go back and reread what i said, if u can't be bothered reading things properly then using comprehension skills and you can't even recognise your own inherent white suremacism i'm not gonna bother answering your drivel. If its ok to offend then you should stop whinging.
This said by you implying collective guilt to French for the events from the past you are allowing some other people to create the collective guilt to Muslims for attack to Charlie.H.
Who the fuck am I? I'm not god#. I'm not allowing it. Its what is happening. You can't separate any of this from history. Anyway why criticise me for it but not Charlie h? its the same thing only they did it for a living and I'm doing it in this thread in response to them being hero worshipped. etc etc
This is boring. You appear to be wrong about everything. For example:
I already talked about you using racist statement and than accusing Charlie H. of it which in itself makes your arguments bad, furthur more this is not proper word for that cartoon, the proper word if you wish is blasphemous, by using racist you are again trying to connect the guilt of racism to Charlie H., which is not the case.
That is right. Europeans using traditional stereotypes of eastern Mediterranean peoples for the purpose of ridiculing them isn't at all racist. Neither is using the symbolic leader of all muslims - mohammad , to represent extremists or insult them thereby implicating all muslims in the acts of extremists. Thats not blasphemous, its partly racist and partly islamophobic, which is a form of religious bigotry that often accompanies some western racism.
Ironic that you defend people's right to be offensive in the name of satire by attacking someone who is doing it but I'm guessing introspection ain't your strong point.
One final point, but I'll quote someone else:
I do not need anyone who has never experienced racism to tell me about racism, nor do I appreciate anyone speaking to what racism is if they have never felt it, known it, been hurt by it, held back by it, lost years to it. They should not speak to what racism is, other than to stand against it.
Please do not speak to me about racism as if you are an expert on racism if you have never endured racism, because when you do, you reduce it to something that was never brutal, never oppressive. When you have not lived racism and you speak to racism as if you know it then you reduce it to something that was surmountable. Racism is insurmountable. You cannot beat racism, you can only survive it. Many of us become resilient but we do not become free of it.
*In the hope that one day you'll know what its like.
# Obviously this is a lie, for the sake of some privacy...
Joe,
In my previous post I tried to point to you logical fallacies you did, you are continuing in this post doing the same and more, let me go to the analysis right away:
1. You said:
"Alan Ford (maybe I should call you Whitey,*)
*In the hope that one day you'll know what its like."
So this puzzled me a bit : what is Joe trying to say, and my understanding is that you are talking about racist society where "whitey" is perjorative ( assumption is that light skinned people are called "whitey" ) therefore by you assuming I belong to the same category of "light skinned people" I'd experience racism on my skin ( pun intended ) . You see Joe if I understood correctly you are saying, this in affect is the same as saying : "I'm not against the racism, I'm against the racism aimed to "blackies"" if the roles are reversed is fine - this is implied by you using "I hope" which indicates your wish, by saying that you are giving the right to white supremacists to say whatever they want about racism , since you are two sides of the same coin.
If you didn't wish society where all the "whiteys" are exposed , if you just wished for me personally to be called "whitey" ( again assuming I'm that type of skin) you are in affect saying that the color of my skin defines my personality, which is nonsense, the color of my skin, eyes and whatever is a result of what ( thousands, millions ) gene combinations and it's not defining my person, my good deeds, my sins. It was all done by me as a person. If I'm white there is no collective behaviour pattern that would belong to all whites, same as that there is no collective pattern that would define all "blackies" in the world and so on, If you allow yourself to think that somehow all "whites" in the world have something in common, than you are allowing that all the "blackies" of the world have something in common, so you can't object to white supremacist way of thinking.
2.
You wrote:
Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 am wrote:Alan Ford (maybe I should call you Whitey,*) don't start racist poker with me, i've got plenty of cards to play against your ingrained and unrecognised white surpremacy. You're just like Charlie h.
In his book "The Golden Bough" J.Fraser tells a story told from a tribe somewhere in Africa about hunting the wild animal
....
This is story as told by "primitive" society, what the story tells us is that by instnict people knew long time ago that fool is needed in society, and is indeed irreplaceable role.
Thats you, here:
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 75#p558671I dunno why you bothered to use quotation marks around any words, you clearly think African "tribes" are primitive, and can only know things by instinct, instead of obervation, logic, analytical thinking and deduction. I hope you don't think that cos they're black or african or in a book or something...
Joe Hillshoist » Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:49 am wrote:Alan Ford (maybe I should call you Whitey,*) don't start racist poker with me, i've got plenty of cards to play against your ingrained and unrecognised white surpremacy. You're just like Charlie h.
So Joe you are saying I have " ingrained and unrecognized white supremacy. Same as Charlie H. "
We talked about this before : by you labeling Charlie H . or me white supremacists you are trying to make our arguments less worth. As for Charlie H. they can defend themselves by their printed material, if you would be so kind to read a few of the back issues, you would be able to see their humour, attitude etc. for yourself and you'll see that there is no white supremacy whatsoever in their magazine.
As for myself I'll explain to you in the next paragraph :
3.
In his book "The Golden Bough" J.Fraser tells a story told from a tribe somewhere in Africa about hunting the wild animal
....
This is story as told by "primitive" society, what the story tells us is that by instnict people knew long time ago that fool is needed in society, and is indeed irreplaceable role.
Thats you, here:
http://www.rigorousintuition.ca/board2/ ... 75#p558671I dunno why you bothered to use quotation marks around any words, you clearly think African "tribes" are primitive, and can only know things by instinct, instead of obervation, logic, analytical thinking and deduction. I hope you don't think that cos they're black or african or in a book or something...
The Golden Bough is the study in anthropology where the stories are collected from VARIOUS parts of the world from VARIOUS "PRIMITIVE" tribes. The premise was to look for so called "primitive" societies - that's why use of quotation marks - the word is used to describe the societies that are fairly close to way of life that would have been prior to technical innovations , writing invention and similar, this is done in assumption that the basic way of life would have similarities all over the world and by resaerching those something can be learned about human history from the long time ago. That's why the term used is "primitive" it's not my invention - it usually comes in quotation marks. Keep in mind that the book was written at the end of 19th century . Keep in mind also that this story came from African tribe, if it came from Russian tribe the word would be still "primitive" So know I don't clearly think African tribes are primitive as you wrote - you could have asked me what I think if you were not sure, but to imply that I think they are primitive is again using degradation of my person, which you continue doing over and over.
you wrote:
you clearly think African "tribes" are primitive, and can only know things by instinct, instead of obervation, logic, analytical thinking and deduction.
If you read my complete post from that time ( the post was explaining what role of Charlie H. magazine or other satirical publication is ) you might understand have that instict knowledge was referring to the role of the Fool in ANY society, and that obviously started long time ago in "primitive" society, it is not just in modern society. The knowledge was instinct in that sense that nobody tried to explain ( " hold on a moment, why do we need to mock the religion and so on " ) but it was there. The question could be does it exist in any society and why are some more rigid than others, but the questions as ( "why do we NEED the Fool in society " and the answer here has to be find by intelect not by instinct anymore) in a modern times started with the age of an enlightment and reasoning, which funny enough has in lot of common with French society, and the part of my post was dealing with "the white burgoise meme"
Obviously the African tribes will use observation, logic etc. for the non abstract problems, but my understanding is that the abstarct questions are answered by intuition, instinct rather than reasoning.
4. The part of the role of the Fool I was talking about is to mock any rigid statements who claim to have universal truth. To quote your last statement :
One final point, but I'll quote someone else:
I do not need anyone who has never experienced racism to tell me about racism, nor do I appreciate anyone speaking to what racism is if they have never felt it, known it, been hurt by it, held back by it, lost years to it. They should not speak to what racism is, other than to stand against it.
Please do not speak to me about racism as if you are an expert on racism if you have never endured racism, because when you do, you reduce it to something that was never brutal, never oppressive. When you have not lived racism and you speak to racism as if you know it then you reduce it to something that was surmountable. Racism is insurmountable. You cannot beat racism, you can only survive it. Many of us become resilient but we do not become free of it.
The person you are quoting is saying :
Don't talk about racism unless you talk what I allow to be talked. I'm the authority for all racism discussion.
My dear Joe that's exactly the statement that the Fool would jump on right away and mock it, if you find yourself offended that much with the Fool who would do that that or even with my suggestion that the statements could be mocked, please relax and look at it from the funny side as the Fool would have seen it. If you don't wish to see the funny side, that's fine, but don't get offended with it.
This post is getting to long, there were few more things I wanted to talk about, and some points I asked you about , you didn't bother to answer, but let's leave taht for some other time, if you don't mind.t=38688
