Redpill Right?

[American Dream]

Others here are likely in a better position than I am to evaluate all the arguments presented here, but this may be of interest:

A beginner's guide to the Redpill Right

The gnostic paradox of young, tech-savvy traditionalists, who see through everything except their own conspiracy theories
BY JAY ALLEN



They want you to lift the veil pulled over your eyes by the progressives who secretly control society. Like Neo escaping the Matrix, your choice is to wake up and see how the world really is, discarding religion, subjectivity, and feminist indoctrination. Conspiracy theorists, Men’s Rights Activists, Pick-Up Artists, GamerGate, even the Neoreaction: all of these communities share a common creed, tech-fluent and superficially self-aware. To outsiders, it's distinctly conservative. But they don’t see themselves as conservatives at all.

Welcome to the Red Pill worldview, where the entire world is a game and the people who are winning are the best players.

Continues at: http://boingboing.net/2015/01/28/a-begi ... e-red.html

[slimmouse]

AD. Thanks for that.

Just about managed to get to the end, more due to failing function of reading concentration, as opposed to disinterest.

But Im glad I laboured with it, since if you go to the very bottom of the link there is an important notice, which I myself would certainly have missed, less than a couple of weeks ago, and which very much relates to the nuts and bolts world we find ourselves in for whatever reason.

We desperately need to oppose any kind of internet censorship is my own safe bet.

[Luther Blissett]

I'm just very glad that this represents a very small minority of young people today. If anything I feel as though I can observe people converting over to a more rational, accepting, humanist view. The ideological battles that our young people are fighting happen very quickly, but I think they're ebbing in the right way. I was baffled when arguments based in the red pill right crept into the Santa Barbara shooting thread, I wasn't expecting it.

I have to interface with people like this all the time and I like to think that I get through to some of them by sticking to core points: peace, human rights, ecology, the wealth gap, etc.

Though the Red Pill subreddit is a horrifying place. In western youth culture this has got to be in the top twenty pressing issues today.

[coffin_dodger]

I thought about doing a long analysis of the agit-prop piece posted in the OP, but honestly, it'll be met with silence by the original protagonist, so why bother?

Suffice to say, according to the OP, the Redpill Right, which, incidentally, immediately devolves to mean anyone who identifies themselves as a 'redpiller' a.k.a. 'conspiracy theorist' (which the System is desperately trying to stigmatize) - is, in fact, a right-wing, deluded bastard who should be regarded as very, very dangerous. This is, after all, a very important topic.

Standard use of mocking tone, fear-mongering and belittlement of the 'perpetrators' is seen throughout.

Status Quo will be maintained. Anyone who falls outside Systemthink must be turned against each other. Jay Allen knows this.

[slimmouse]

Status Quo will be maintained. Anyone who falls outside Systemthink must be turned against each other. Jay Allen knows this.

Does he, like yourself have a source ?

[coffin_dodger]

I have no idea, slim. I always keep mayo, ketchup and mustard handy. Thousand Island, if I'm feeling exotic.

[jakell]

I thought about doing a long analysis of the agit-prop piece posted in the OP, but honestly, it'll be met with silence by the original protagonist, so why bother?

Suffice to say, according to the OP, the Redpill Right, which, incidentally, immediately devolves to mean anyone who identifies themselves as a 'redpiller' a.k.a. 'conspiracy theorist' (which the System is desperately trying to stigmatize) - is, in fact, a right-wing, deluded bastard who should be regarded as very, very dangerous. This is, after all, a very important topic.

Standard use of mocking tone, fear-mongering and belittlement of the 'perpetrators' is seen throughout.

Status Quo will be maintained. Anyone who falls outside Systemthink must be turned against each other. Jay Allen knows this.

I can sort of see the direction AD is heading with all his Far Right and Mysticism business (which intersects somewhat with the present topic).

There is a not unpopular notion that the 'bad thing', a rough emotional impression that tends to often be identified in this era by the snarl word 'Fascism', is quite strongly associated with the irrational, eg mysticism, religion, spirituality and in general stuff from the past.
The 'good thing' is represented by atheism, rationalty, science and technology (etc), and that if we imitate the good thing then things will turn out alright for us all. (except it's not that clear why)

I use the fuzzy terms good/bad thing, because underneath it all is an assumption, an article of faith, a belief. This belief system goes under a slightly more familar name... 'The religion of Progress'

[slimmouse]

This belief system goes under a slightly more familar name... 'The religion of Progress'

Count me in, as long of course that I am the sole personal member, since I have considered for a while now the fact that we are all a work in progress.

Edited to astonishingly observe....did you see what happened to the Soul in that last sentence?

It suddenly became Sole.

Talk about lost in translation. Wonder what the Manatee would make of that?

[jakell]

I can sort of see the direction AD is heading with all his Far Right and Mysticism business (which intersects somewhat with the present topic).

There is a not unpopular notion that the 'bad thing', a rough emotional impression that tends to often be identified in this era by the snarl word 'Fascism', is quite strongly associated with the irrational, eg mysticism, religion, spirituality and in general stuff from the past.
The 'good thing' is represented by atheism, rationalty, science and technology (etc), and that if we imitate the good thing then things will turn out alright for us all. (except it's not that clear why)

I use the fuzzy terms good/bad thing, because underneath it all is an assumption, an article of faith, a belief. This belief system goes under a slightly more familar name... 'The religion of Progress'

Count me in, as long of course that I am the sole personal member, since I have considered for a while now the fact that we are all a work in progress.

Edited to astonishingly observe....did you see what happened to the Soul in that last sentence?

It suddenly became Sole.

Talk about lost in translation. Wonder what the Manatee would make of that?

This 'religion of progress' thing is something I've become much more familiar with from reading John Michael Greer. Most people only to see that last word, but really, to understand the usefulness of the term, it's the word 'religion' that's important, and especially how religion tends to produce certain value judgements that are not often questioned. (The good/bad thing).

[Luther Blissett]

It's right to question the author's narrative, but it does roughly align with my experiences with "them." My main beef, of course, is with the content, and not the people. It only makes sense to me to combat misogyny, violent rhetoric, homophobia, transphobia, objectification, stereotyping, prejudice, etc.

As a thought exercise, I have visited the (self-identifying) red pill community and tried to empathize with their conclusions in any of their threads. I cannot. I can empathize with their feelings or the pain in their lives, but there's a disconnect for me between the problem and the solution.

Like I said, I concern myself with environmental degradation, genocide, human trafficking, torture, the wage gap…how am I going to really talk to you about a website that sells fake pregnancy tests, women who want to explore their sexuality on their own terms, women who dictate their own attractions?

[slimmouse]

I can sort of see the direction AD is heading with all his Far Right and Mysticism business (which intersects somewhat with the present topic).

There is a not unpopular notion that the 'bad thing', a rough emotional impression that tends to often be identified in this era by the snarl word 'Fascism', is quite strongly associated with the irrational, eg mysticism, religion, spirituality and in general stuff from the past.
The 'good thing' is represented by atheism, rationalty, science and technology (etc), and that if we imitate the good thing then things will turn out alright for us all. (except it's not that clear why)

I use the fuzzy terms good/bad thing, because underneath it all is an assumption, an article of faith, a belief. This belief system goes under a slightly more familar name... 'The religion of Progress'

Count me in, as long of course that I am the sole personal member, since I have considered for a while now the fact that we are all a work in progress.

Edited to astonishingly observe....did you see what happened to the Soul in that last sentence?

It suddenly became Sole.

Talk about lost in translation. Wonder what the Manatee would make of that?

This 'religion of progress' thing is something I've become much more familiar with from reading John Michael Greer. Most people only to see that last word, but really, to understand the usefulness of the term, it's the word 'religion' that's important, and especially how religion tends to produce certain value judgements that are not often questioned. (The good/bad thing).

Hows about "The Spirituality of Progress""

[jakell]

It's right to question the author's narrative, but it does roughly align with my experiences with "them." My main beef, of course, is with the content, and not the people. It only makes sense to me to combat misogyny, violent rhetoric, homophobia, transphobia, objectification, stereotyping, prejudice, etc.

As a thought exercise, I have visited the (self-identifying) red pill community and tried to empathize with their conclusions in any of their threads. I cannot. I can empathize with their feelings or the pain in their lives, but there's a disconnect for me between the problem and the solution.

Like I said, I concern myself with environmental degradation, genocide, human trafficking, torture, the wage gap…how am I going to really talk to you about a website that sells fake pregnancy tests, women who want to explore their sexuality on their own terms, women who dictate their own attractions?

Not sure what you mean by a thought exercise (do you mean you haven't actually done this, just imagined it?). I'm not sure if this grouping is useful or realistic, possibly just an other us-and-them exercise. Even the article states that:

They've yet to assume a formal name, remaining a loose confederation of overlapping reactionary movements resistant to (though exploited by) their would-be leaders. Most identify as libertarian, many as atheists, and they are overwhelmingly white and male. They’re comfortable with progressive terminology and how technology has changed society, which puts them sharply at odds with most conservatives, who see both as a threat to traditional values. Many "Redpillers" perceive conservatism as censorious and unscientific, and instead identify with the “freethought” and “skeptic” internet communities.

It seems the author is strongly suggesting that this could be useful grouping, but isn't particularly recognised yet

[Luther Blissett]

It's right to question the author's narrative, but it does roughly align with my experiences with "them." My main beef, of course, is with the content, and not the people. It only makes sense to me to combat misogyny, violent rhetoric, homophobia, transphobia, objectification, stereotyping, prejudice, etc.

As a thought exercise, I have visited the (self-identifying) red pill community and tried to empathize with their conclusions in any of their threads. I cannot. I can empathize with their feelings or the pain in their lives, but there's a disconnect for me between the problem and the solution.

Like I said, I concern myself with environmental degradation, genocide, human trafficking, torture, the wage gap…how am I going to really talk to you about a website that sells fake pregnancy tests, women who want to explore their sexuality on their own terms, women who dictate their own attractions?

Not sure what you mean by a thought exercise (do you mean you haven't actually done this, just imagined it?). I'm not sure if this grouping is useful or realistic, possibly just an other us-and-them exercise. Even the article states that:

They've yet to assume a formal name, remaining a loose confederation of overlapping reactionary movements resistant to (though exploited by) their would-be leaders. Most identify as libertarian, many as atheists, and they are overwhelmingly white and male. They’re comfortable with progressive terminology and how technology has changed society, which puts them sharply at odds with most conservatives, who see both as a threat to traditional values. Many "Redpillers" perceive conservatism as censorious and unscientific, and instead identify with the “freethought” and “skeptic” internet communities.

It seems the author is strongly suggesting that this could be useful grouping, but isn't particularly recognised yet

The thought exercise comes in when I try to clear my mind, read their threads, and see if I can continue empathizing with them right up until the end, the final conclusion. My knee-jerk reaction is always to disagree with someone who identifies as a redpiller, so I try to do the opposite as a thought exercise.

And, aside from the maze of acronyms (for "pick up artists", "men going their own way", "men's rights activists", "a voice for men", etc) "redpiller" does seem to be name they have given themselves: http://www.reddit.com/r/theredpill

[jakell]

It's right to question the author's narrative, but it does roughly align with my experiences with "them." My main beef, of course, is with the content, and not the people. It only makes sense to me to combat misogyny, violent rhetoric, homophobia, transphobia, objectification, stereotyping, prejudice, etc.

As a thought exercise, I have visited the (self-identifying) red pill community and tried to empathize with their conclusions in any of their threads. I cannot. I can empathize with their feelings or the pain in their lives, but there's a disconnect for me between the problem and the solution.

Like I said, I concern myself with environmental degradation, genocide, human trafficking, torture, the wage gap…how am I going to really talk to you about a website that sells fake pregnancy tests, women who want to explore their sexuality on their own terms, women who dictate their own attractions?

Not sure what you mean by a thought exercise (do you mean you haven't actually done this, just imagined it?). I'm not sure if this grouping is useful or realistic, possibly just an other us-and-them exercise. Even the article states that:

They've yet to assume a formal name, remaining a loose confederation of overlapping reactionary movements resistant to (though exploited by) their would-be leaders. Most identify as libertarian, many as atheists, and they are overwhelmingly white and male. They’re comfortable with progressive terminology and how technology has changed society, which puts them sharply at odds with most conservatives, who see both as a threat to traditional values. Many "Redpillers" perceive conservatism as censorious and unscientific, and instead identify with the “freethought” and “skeptic” internet communities.

It seems the author is strongly suggesting that this could be useful grouping, but isn't particularly recognised yet

The thought exercise comes in when I try to clear my mind, read their threads, and see if I can continue empathizing with them right up until the end, the final conclusion. My knee-jerk reaction is always to disagree with someone who identifies as a redpiller, so I try to do the opposite as a thought exercise.

And, aside from the maze of acronyms (for "pick up artists", "men going their own way", "men's rights activists", "a voice for men", etc) "redpiller" does seem to be name they have given themselves: http://www.reddit.com/r/theredpill

It's new to me, and I'm wondering how useful the category is, the internet is full of smallish groups** trying to look like the 'new thing'. Remember the 'Dark Enlightenment'? This sounds like a similar crowd trying out a more casual jacket.

**Also, the opponents of these trying to construct a new boogeyman

[Luther Blissett]

It's only 96,000 on reddit, which is pretty smallish (/r/environment, which I frequent, is 113,000) but the term is definitely broader and has more traction outside of that one website. I just think "redpiller" is a little catchier, carrying a little more definition and color than "men's rights activists" (which many still believed to be about sober custody cases) or "pick up artists" (attached to one-dimensional, cartoonish caricatures).

As I've alluded, it's not that serious of a problem, all things considered, but arguments with folks who all use these same convoluted terms / real life methods / same beliefs seem to come from the same universe where they (like Elliott Rodger) learned and refined them tend to circle around in the same way and it helps to know how to debate them.