What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby 8bitagent » Tue Jun 30, 2015 12:26 am

Is there a reality or future where we're not being steadily, though slowly being pushed toward a global war pitting the west(US/UK/Canada/Saudi Arabia/Israel/South Korea/Japanetc) against Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, etc?
George Soros recently said he felt a third world between these factions in a hot war sense was coming. I remember even the cartoonishly salacious David Icke a few days after 9/11 said the same thing.

I've spent a lot of time addressing a lot of reasons why I do not like the Russian state, but I feel we are closer to a hot war with Russia in our lifetime than we ever have been since 1962 and not a single thinking human being should want that. Russia has done, post Berlin Wall, a lot of despicable things, but it'd be in humanities best interests to let that all go and try to make Russia happy. I've no doubt there are forces, patient, but salivating at the idea of a hot war with Russia and China in our lifetime.
"Do you know who I am? I am the arm, and I sound like this..."-man from another place, twin peaks fire walk with me
User avatar
8bitagent
 
Posts: 12244
Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:49 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby conniption » Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:17 pm

from pg. 2 - Nordic wrote:
And any feedback on the Engdahl article? I'm not familiar with Engdahl and don't know his reputation. The article rings true to me however. I think it covers some extremely important issues that have been almost completely ignored. It connects a LOT of dots.


William Engdahl: The Birth of the New Russia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8PIHjM34gY
Guadalajara Geopolitics Institute

Published on Jun 30, 2015

About the Interview

A discussion with risk consultant, geopolitical expert and best-selling author William Engdahl regarding his trip to the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF) and what he calls "The Birth of the New Russia."

About the Author

F. William Engdahl is an award-winning geopolitical analyst, strategic risk consultant, author, professor and lecturer. He has been researching and writing about the world political scene for more than thirty years. His various books on geopolitics—the interaction between international power politics, economics and geography—have been translated into 14 foreign languages from Chinese to French, from German to Japanese.

William Engdahl Website

http://williamengdahl.com

William Engdahl Twitter

https://twitter.com/EngdahlFW

William Engdahl Books

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=dp_byline...

https://www.createspace.com/pub/simpl...

Related Links

Sanctions and the Birth of the New Russia | New Eastern Outlook

http://journal-neo.org/2015/06/25/san...

Radio Sputnik: SPIEF - William Engdahl - historian and best-selling author

https://soundcloud.com/radiosputnik/s...

Vladimir Putin Interviewed by Charlies Rose at the St. Peterburg International Economic Forum (SPIEF)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOhlb_...

From the Archive: William Engdahl Discusses the Politics of GMO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ITXzH...

Guadalajara Geopolitics Institute

http://guadalajarageopolitics.com/201...
conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby Nordic » Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:53 am

8bitagent » Mon Jun 29, 2015 11:26 pm wrote:Is there a reality or future where we're not being steadily, though slowly being pushed toward a global war pitting the west(US/UK/Canada/Saudi Arabia/Israel/South Korea/Japanetc) against Russia, China, Iran, North Korea, etc?
George Soros recently said he felt a third world between these factions in a hot war sense was coming. I remember even the cartoonishly salacious David Icke a few days after 9/11 said the same thing.

I've spent a lot of time addressing a lot of reasons why I do not like the Russian state, but I feel we are closer to a hot war with Russia in our lifetime than we ever have been since 1962 and not a single thinking human being should want that. Russia has done, post Berlin Wall, a lot of despicable things, but it'd be in humanities best interests to let that all go and try to make Russia happy. I've no doubt there are forces, patient, but salivating at the idea of a hot war with Russia and China in our lifetime.



What are all those horrible things Russia has done, especially in comparison to the sheer aggression shown by the U.S.? Really I'm curious. Maybe I'm forgetting something.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby justdrew » Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:06 am

Nordic » 06 Jul 2015 05:53 wrote:What are all those horrible things Russia has done, especially in comparison to the sheer aggression shown by the U.S.? Really I'm curious. Maybe I'm forgetting something.


yeah, I'm a little unclear on what the list is too, if we cut Russia the same break we give say, France, there'd be no problem.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby conniption » Sat Sep 26, 2015 7:08 am

Putin: Who created ISIS?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbZDyr2LkdI
Inessa S
Published on Sep 25, 2015

~


Putin: Does anyone even listen to us?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BF-6TsqPoQs
Inessa S
Published on Sep 23, 2015
conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby justdrew » Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:52 pm

No word on were this 'report' came from... How exactly we're even finding out about this is unclear.

Possibly Pentagon is commenting on this because some Other Source of Information was already providing this info.

U.S.-Trained Syria Rebels Hand Over Equipment To Al Qaeda Affiliate
The latest sign of trouble for the American effort to train Syrian rebels.

WASHINGTON, Sept 25 (Reuters) - Syrian rebels trained by the United States gave some of their equipment to the al Qaeda-linked Nusra Front in exchange for safe passage, a U.S. military spokesman said on Friday, the latest blow to a troubled U.S. effort to train local partners to fight Islamic State militants.

The rebels surrendered six pick-up trucks and some ammunition, or about one-quarter of their issued equipment, to a suspected Nusra intermediary on Sept. 21-22 in exchange for safe passage, said Colonel Patrick Ryder, a spokesman for U.S. Central Command, in a statement.

"If accurate, the report of NSF members providing equipment to al Nusra Front is very concerning and a violation of Syria train and equip program guidelines," Ryder said, using an acronym for the rebels, called the New Syrian Forces.

U.S. Central Command, which oversees U.S. military operations in the Middle East, was told of the equipment surrender around 1 p.m. (1700 GMT) on Friday, Ryder said. Earlier on Friday, Ryder had said all weapons and equipment issued to the rebels remained under their control.
By 1964 there were 1.5 million mobile phone users in the US
User avatar
justdrew
 
Posts: 11966
Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 7:57 pm
Location: unknown
Blog: View Blog (11)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby conniption » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:04 am

fortruss

Putin's interview on American CBS PLUS what was cut from the interview

CBS News
All eyes on Putin

At a time of icy relations with the U.S., Russian President Vladimir Putin gives a rare -- and surprising -- interview to 60 Minutes
The following is a script from "Putin" which aired on September 27, 2015. Charlie Rose is the correspondent. Andy Court, producer.
conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby tapitsbo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:17 am

So Israeli-aided and funded troops are clashing with Russian forces in Syria and in Ukraine.

Meanwhile Russia and Israel are said to have "great relations".

None of this surprises me BUT I hope some individuals here can shed some extra light on the context of this.
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby The Consul » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:18 pm

Little doubt in my mind CIA blew up Chechnya. Besides the normal humanitarian outrage, they did it to a Sufi culture which could have been approached in many different and better ways than arming them with machine guns. But that is not how the US views the world. It was easier than trying to bribe them.
We have a Ukrainian student staying with us. Tales of Yanukovych are incredible and I suspect somewhat embellished by propoganda (although there is little doubt he was a bastard, and that he was Putin's bastard). Of course, the US/EU would have none of that. And since after the Budapest Memorandum NATO & Russia never fulfilled it promises of making life sweeter for Ukraine (after it transferred what 6,000 warheads to Russia and all it's highly enriched uranium, which was probably what kept Yanukovych in power). Former Soviet bloc countries having no idea how to establish a democracy were easy prey for the rise of Kleptocrats. Absolutely no doubt that is what Yanukovych was and it is less severely true of Willy Wonka (the cynical name Ukrainians assign to Poroshenko since he is one of the world's largest makers of chocolate treats).

After the leaked conversation between Victoria Nuland (Neocon) and ambassador Pyatt (non Ukrainian speaking Yale boy) it was a lot easier to wonder, hmmm, maybe Putin is right. And there was ample information to suggest that the shootings in Kiev were as suspect to false flagging by the west as it was by demented Yanukovych (just like the shooting down of Flight 17.

So, in my mind, in a sense, Putin does not have to be "telling the truth" in order for me to suspect (or realize) that the US is up to it's usual bullshit. But my current theory is the Ukrainian crisis will subside in Donetsk now that Russia is supposedly going against ISIS. This theory is probably based on hope so that when our student returns to Vinnytsia it will be less likely he'll get swept up in wider spread carnage. (BTW, he idolizes US but thinks baseball is incomprehensibly bizzare.)

Putin right, Putin wrong, evil dictator, benevolent monarch, I can’t remember who said what’s on the tip of my forgotten dream tongue. Maybe it is because the world is slowly being covered in cement, that only part of our consciousness is contained in our brains, and other particles are physically cast like dust over the valleys, mountains, deserts and seas.
Perhaps what I can’t remember is now under the 6.4 gigatons of cement poured in China in the last 3 years. Maybe this is not a bad thing. Perhaps after enough cement is poured we will forget enough of what we have been conditioned to be that we will not remember how to be such impossible assholes.
The dream of sleep is preferable to the nightmare of reality. Still, sometimes I wake up thinking I am covered in toxic sludge, but it’s only a matter of time before I’m shuffling off to get the newspaper.

Putin is right enough & we just might all drown in our own blood if these psychopaths keep going the way they are.
" Morals is the butter for those who have no bread."
— B. Traven
User avatar
The Consul
 
Posts: 1247
Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 2:41 am
Location: Ompholos, Disambiguation
Blog: View Blog (13)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby tapitsbo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:50 pm

Interesting. Is there anyone here who understands the relationship between israel and russia in the present day?
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby conniption » Mon Sep 28, 2015 7:18 pm

conniption » Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:04 am wrote:
fortruss

Putin's interview on American CBS PLUS what was cut from the interview

CBS News
All eyes on Putin

At a time of icy relations with the U.S., Russian President Vladimir Putin gives a rare -- and surprising -- interview to 60 Minutes
The following is a script from "Putin" which aired on September 27, 2015. Charlie Rose is the correspondent. Andy Court, producer.


Clusterfuck Nation – Blog

James Howard Kunstler

September 28, 2015

Tick Tick Tick


Did Charlie Rose look like a fucking idiot last night on 60-Minutes, or what, asking Vladimir Putin how he could know for sure that the US was behind the 2014 Ukraine coup against President Viktor Yanukovych? Maybe the idiots are the 60-Minutes producers and fluffers who are supposed to prep Charlie’s questions. Putin seemed startled and amused by this one on Ukraine: how could he know for sure?

Well, gosh, because Ukraine was virtually a province of Russia in one form or another for hundreds of years, and Russia has a potent intelligence service (formerly called the KGB) that had assets and connections threaded through Ukrainian society like the rhizomorphs of the fungus Armillaria solidipes through a conifer forest. Gosh, Charlie, it’s like asking Obama whether the NSA might know what’s going on in Texas.

And so there is Vladimir Putin, a former KGB officer, having to spell it out for the American clodhopper super-journalist. “We have thousands of contacts with them. We know who and where, and when they met with someone, and who worked with those who ousted Yanukovych, how they were supported, how much they were paid, how they were trained, where, in which country, and who those instructors were. We know everything.”

The only thing Vlad left out of course was the now-world-famous panicked yelp by Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland crying, “Fuck the EU,” when events in Kiev started getting out of hand for US stage-managers. But he probably heard about that, too.

Charlie then voice-overed the following statement: “For the record, the US has denied any involvement in the removal of the Ukrainian leader.” Right. And your call is important us. And your check is in the mail. And they hate us for our freedom.

This bit on Ukraine was only a little more appalling than Charlie’s earlier segment on Syria. Was Putin trying to rescue the Assad government? Charlie asked, in the context of President Obama’s statement years ago that “Assad has to go.”

Putin answered as if he were explaining something that should have been self-evident to a not-very-bright high school freshman: “To remove the legitimate government would create a situation which you can witness in other countries of the region, for instance Libya, where all the state institutions have disintegrated. We see a similar situation in Iraq. There’s no other solution to the Syrian crisis than strengthening the government structure.”

I guess Charlie and the 60-Minutes production crew hadn’t noticed what had gone on around the Middle East the past fifteen years with America’s program of toppling dictators into the maw of anarchy. Not such great outcomes.

Charlie persisted though, following his script: Was Putin trying to rescue Assad? Vlad had to lay it out for him as if he were introducing Charlie to the game of Animal Lotto: “What do you think about those who support the terrorist organizations only to oust Assad without thinking about what happens to the country after all the state institutions have been demolished…? Look at those who are in control of 60 percent of the territory of Syria.

Meaning ISIS. Al Nusra (formerly al Qaeda in Syria), i.e., groups internationally recognized as terrorist organizations.

Charlie Rose, 60-Minutes — and perhaps by extension US government agencies with an interest in propagandizing — seem to want to put over the story that Russia has involved itself in Syria only to aggrandize its role on in world affairs.

Forgive me for being so blunt, but what sort of stupid fucking idea is this? And are there any non-lobotomized adults left in the USA who can’t see straight through it? The truth is that American policy in Syria (plus Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Somalia, Afghanistan) is an impressive record of failure in terms of the one basic aim that most rational people might agree upon: stabilizing the region in a way that does not leave Islamic jihadi maniacs in charge.

Okay, so now the Russians will do what they can to try to stabilize Syria. They’ve had their failures, too (famously, Afghanistan). But Russian territory adjoins the Islamic lands and they clearly have stake in containing the virus of Islamic extremism near their borders. Is that not obvious?

Charlie made one other extremely dumb statement — he seems to prefer making assertions to asking straight-up questions — to the effect that Russia was misbehaving by deploying troops on its border with Ukraine.

Putin again seemed astonished by this credulous idiocy. The US had troops and nuclear weapons all over Europe, he answered. Did Charlie think that meant the US was attempting to occupy the nations of Europe now? Was it “a crime” for Russia to defend its own border with a neighboring state (formerly a province) that, he implied, the US had deliberately destabilized?

The Putin segment was followed by a sickening session with Donald Trump, a man who now — after a month or so of public exposure — proves incapable of uttering a coherent idea. I wonder what Vladimir Putin makes of this incomparable buffoon. Perhaps that America has gotten what it deserves.

144 comments


~

'Do you realise what you've done?' Putin addresses UNGA 2015 (FULL SPEECH)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q13yzl6k6w0
RT

Streamed live on Sep 28, 2015

Russian President Vladimir Putin is due to address the 70th UN General Assembly session in New York City on Monday, September 28.

During the highly-anticipated appearance, which will be the president‘s first since 2005, Putin is expected to comment on the most pressing international issues including the Syrian and Ukrainian crises, sanctions and the fragmentation of the global economy.
conniption
 
Posts: 2480
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:01 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby Searcher08 » Mon Sep 28, 2015 8:51 pm

There was an extraordinary BBC documentary about the Russian invasion of Georgia that had in-depth interviews with all the major players involved and the Russians came across as rational, trying to apply old school diplomacy, telegraphing clearly what their intentions were and having actions that matched what they said. They approached it from a reality-driven 'stakeholder analysis' approach and generated proposals which were described even by their opponents as creative and imaginative. What they were met with was lies, attempted manipulation and politically-driven neo-con ideological nonsense. Engineers meeting with Loose Cannon crazies.
User avatar
Searcher08
 
Posts: 5887
Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:21 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby Nordic » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:12 pm

http://kunstler.com/clusterfuck-nation/tick-tick-tick/

James Kunstler nails it:

Tick Tick Tick

D id Charlie Rose look like a fucking idiot last night on 60-Minutes, or what, asking Vladimir Putin how he could know for sure that the US was behind the 2014 Ukraine coup against President Viktor Yanukovych? Maybe the idiots are the 60-Minutes producers and fluffers who are supposed to prep Charlie’s questions. Putin seemed startled and amused by this one on Ukraine: how could he know for sure?

Well, gosh, because Ukraine was virtually a province of Russia in one form or another for hundreds of years, and Russia has a potent intelligence service (formerly called the KGB) that had assets and connections threaded through Ukrainian society like the rhizomorphs of the fungus Armillaria solidipes through a conifer forest. Gosh, Charlie, it’s like asking Obama whether the NSA might know what’s going on in Texas.

And so there is Vladimir Putin, a former KGB officer, having to spell it out for the American clodhopper super-journalist. “We have thousands of contacts with them. We know who and where, and when they met with someone, and who worked with those who ousted Yanukovych, how they were supported, how much they were paid, how they were trained, where, in which country, and who those instructors were. We know everything.”

The only thing Vlad left out of course was the now-world-famous panicked yelp by Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland crying, “Fuck the EU,” when events in Kiev started getting out of hand for US stage-managers. But he probably heard about that, too.

Charlie then voice-overed the following statement: “For the record, the US has denied any involvement in the removal of the Ukrainian leader.” Right. And your call is important us. And your check is in the mail. And they hate us for our freedom.

This bit on Ukraine was only a little more appalling than Charlie’s earlier segment on Syria. Was Putin trying to rescue the Assad government? Charlie asked, in the context of President Obama’s statement years ago that “Assad has to go.”

Putin answered as if he were explaining something that should have been self-evident to a not-very-bright high school freshman: “To remove the legitimate government would create a situation which you can witness in other countries of the region, for instance Libya, where all the state institutions have disintegrated. We see a similar situation in Iraq. There’s no other solution to the Syrian crisis than strengthening the government structure.”

I guess Charlie and the 60-Minutes production crew hadn’t noticed what had gone on around the Middle East the past fifteen years with America’s program of toppling dictators into the maw of anarchy. Not such great outcomes.

Charlie persisted though, following his script: Was Putin trying to rescue Assad? Vlad had to lay it out for him as if he were introducing Charlie to the game of Animal Lotto: “What do you think about those who support the terrorist organizations only to oust Assad without thinking about what happens to the country after all the state institutions have been demolished…? Look at those who are in control of 60 percent of the territory of Syria.

Meaning ISIS. Al Nusra (formerly al Qaeda in Syria), i.e., groups internationally recognized as terrorist organizations.

Charlie Rose, 60-Minutes — and perhaps by extension US government agencies with an interest in propagandizing — seem to want to put over the story that Russia has involved itself in Syria only to aggrandize its role on in world affairs.

Forgive me for being so blunt, but what sort of stupid fucking idea is this? And are there any non-lobotomized adults left in the USA who can’t see straight through it? The truth is that American policy in Syria (plus Iraq, Libya, Ukraine, Somalia, Afghanistan) is an impressive record of failure in terms of the one basic aim that most rational people might agree upon: stabilizing the region in a way that does not leave Islamic jihadi maniacs in charge.

Okay, so now the Russians will do what they can to try to stabilize Syria. They’ve had their failures, too (famously, Afghanistan). But Russian territory adjoins the Islamic lands and they clearly have stake in containing the virus of Islamic extremism near their borders. Is that not obvious?

Charlie made one other extremely dumb statement — he seems to prefer making assertions to asking straight-up questions — to the effect that Russia was misbehaving by deploying troops on its border with Ukraine.

Putin again seemed astonished by this credulous idiocy. The US had troops and nuclear weapons all over Europe, he answered. Did Charlie think that meant the US was attempting to occupy the nations of Europe now? Was it “a crime” for Russia to defend its own border with a neighboring state (formerly a province) that, he implied, the US had deliberately destabilized?

The Putin segment was followed by a sickening session with Donald Trump, a man who now — after a month or so of public exposure — proves incapable of uttering a coherent idea. I wonder what Vladimir Putin makes of this incomparable buffoon. Perhaps that America has gotten what it deserves.
"He who wounds the ecosphere literally wounds God" -- Philip K. Dick
Nordic
 
Posts: 14230
Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2006 3:36 am
Location: California USA
Blog: View Blog (6)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby Grizzly » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:43 pm

Damn, I just watched two separate Putin videos and whole heartedly agreed with both, but can't find them, now... He was asked some pretty direct questions, and was as honest and forthcoming as any smegging politician I've seen here. Kinda like George Galloway, but with out the good natured humour. I don't know if he's "telling the truth", but I resonated with everything he said. If I can find them, I'll post em...
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
User avatar
Grizzly
 
Posts: 4908
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:15 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: What if Putin is Telling the Truth?

Postby tapitsbo » Mon Sep 28, 2015 10:47 pm

Maybe Putin is just a better, more charming actor than Obama? There was the thread about his endorsement of psy-war and epistemic disorientation. Maybe the American lies and bullshit have become paper-thin because America is being thrown under the bus by "global institutions" (probably mostly happening because of overreach and fuckups by the USA)
tapitsbo
 
Posts: 1824
Joined: Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:58 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 164 guests