Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

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Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby guruilla » Mon May 16, 2016 2:16 pm

Doubling this post just in case anyone at RI feels like exploring this topic. I had barely heard of Leo Strauss before reading Lance deHaven-Smith's Conspiracy Theory in America, and now he seems to be key to understanding the rationale behind all the machinations discussed at this forum and elsewhere. I have always felt that the old "love of greed/lust for power/psychopaths-run-the-world" explanation wasn't sufficient as a motivational factor. Driving every psychopath is the conviction that what they are doing is necessary, right, & good, within the context of what they know that others do not (or are unable to admit to). This material may also help account for the disturbing overlap between what we think of as high culture (art, philosophy, science, religion, spirituality) and high crimes (the elite's exploitation of human beings, natural resources, etc.).

Some striking passages from chap 3, "Conspiracy Denial in the Social Sciences" (76-106):

The intellectual basis for abandoning the conspiratorial concerns
of the Founders was developed in the 1940s and 1950s
by two European philosophers: Karl Popper and Leo Strauss.
It would be only a modest exaggeration to say that Popper and
to some extent Strauss blamed conspiracy theory for totalitarianism
in Europe, World War II, and the Holocaust. Popper
is largely responsible for the mistaken idea that conspiracy
theories are modern variants of ancient superstitions and
nineteenth-century social prejudices, and that, thus rooted
in irrationality and paranoia, are the seeds of authoritarian
political movements [1 pp. 94–97]. For his part, Strauss did
not use the term “conspiracy theory,” but he advocated state
political propaganda and covert actions to protect a society’s
traditional beliefs and ongoing illusions about its origins and
virtues from unrestrained inquiries or, in other words, conspiratorial
theorizing [2 pp. 146–173]. Strauss’ thinking differed
from much of Popper’s analysis but saw scientific criticism
of official accounts of important historical events as a
precursor to totalitarianism because it undermines respect
for the nation’s laws and traditional beliefs
; it ushers in,
with philosophy and science, the view that nothing is true;
and it unleashes tyrannical impulses in the political class as
top leaders compete for popular support. [3] Although Popper
and Strauss arrived by diff erent routes, they agreed that
conspiracy theories can fuel totalitarian political movements
that threaten respect for human dignity, popular sovereignty,
and the rule of law. [4]

...

Strauss assumes that all but the most primitive societies are stratified into an
elite and mass; that the elites are simply smarter, stronger,
braver, and better than are the masses; and that the decisive
factor in social organization is how the elites are controlled
and managed. For the most part, he thinks the latter depends
on the elites’ reverence, or lack thereof, for the established
laws and traditions.
Elites who revere their societies’ values
and norms will be magnanimous, restrained, and caring.
When traditional beliefs erode, the elites become gangsters
and eventually one gangster rises through guile and brutality
to the top, thus establishing tyranny. Therefore, whereas
Popper envisions as the endpoint of societal development a
totally open society without superstition, Strauss says such
a society is not possible in the long run because it would
eventually become totalitarian or, in Strauss’ terms, “tyrannical.”
Democracy and respect for human dignity depend on
“salutary myths” and “noble lies” that must be propagated by
a special class of philosophical elites who are dedicated to
guarding the society’s values and traditions.


Strauss never defines what he means by “noble lies”
beyond referring to Plato’s The Republic, which is where
the term originates. But this was certainly no oversight on
Strauss’ part, for it leaves the matter open, which is to say,
unlimited. For Plato, noble lies included myths and stories
about the society’s origins, rigged lotteries for choosing
marriage partners, infanticide, and other actions to create a
strong people willing and able to defend themselves in a hostile
world.
This short list would seem to imply support for
many antidemocratic elite conspiracies, including assassinating
political leaders, framing dissidents, fomenting mass
fear, demonizing rival societies, and letting enemy attacks
succeed so that the masses are galvanized to deal with a gathering
threat. [3] The upshot for modern democracies is that
political leaders must conspire to manipulate mass opinion
and reinforce patriotism, reverence for the Founders,
religious faith and piety, and generally “love of one’s own.”
Like science and philosophy, conspiracy theories (or “dastardly
truths”) are corrosive of political cohesion and the rule
of (traditional) law because they undermine authority and
raise doubts about foundational stories extolling the societies’
founders and rules.

...

They may also wish to consider that the theory they are embracing—
the conspiracy-denying theory of Karl Popper—is blind to
the possibility that a segment of U.S. political elites, perhaps
under the infl uence of Leo Strauss or a living Straussian, is
conspiring to manipulate American democracy to make it
more authoritarian for the sake of preserving a remnant of
American democracy in a hostile world.


...

In effect, Strauss believed state
political crimes, insofar as they reinforce the society’s values
and myths, are necessary and beneficial because without
them, liberal democracies are doomed to become totalitarian
or to be conquered by totalitarian regimes.


...

On the basis of an innovative analysis of classical political
philosophy, Strauss challenged modern belief in the civilizing
effect of science. He concluded that the ancient philosophers
had realized that a society based on philosophy alone
eventually transformed into tyranny. [3] The truth discovered
by philosophy is that there are no gods, the universe is
eternal rather than created, and life according to nature is for
the strong to rule the weak. If this truth is shared with people
who are not philosophers, social order will be destroyed
because non-philosophers will no longer revere their society
as unique and exemplary and will become lawless and politically
opportunistic. Elites will abandon restraint in their
competition with each other, and the masses will turn to elite
demagogues who promise them equality of power, wealth,
and status. The result will be rule by the will of the tyrant
rather than by the laws of the land.


...

Strauss concluded that Western culture could be
preserved only by somehow insulating biblical beliefs from
scientific criticism.


...

Strauss did not speak openly of all that would be
condoned by his point of view, but SCADs to shore up hatred
against the enemy would seem to be acceptable. The key consideration
would be the ability to avoid detection. Just about
anything would be allowed if it could be kept secret.
Dirty tricks would also be justified for discrediting scientists,
historians, journalists, independent investigators, and
others who formulated conspiracy theories that discredited
or cast doubt on beliefs important to the democratic society’s
existence in a hostile world, a world in which liberal democracies
are faced with powerful, totalitarian enemies.
In this
context, formulating and popularizing conspiracy theories
that undermine popular confidence in the nation’s leaders,
institutions, and traditions would border on treason. Hence
the state could reasonably resort to targeting domestic conspiracy-theory
groups and networks with Sunstein and Vermeule’s
program of “cognitive infiltration.”

...

However, the possibility remains that American militarism
has been maintained by SCADs, or more generally the
policies advocated by Strauss. If the system followed the
Platonic model of guardians, the requisite actions would be
assigned to covert operatives by an inner circle of national
security elites. The operatives would have developed their
skills in covert operations overseas. The tactics might
include, for example, political assassination, false-flag terrorism,
election theft, military provocation, and contrived
economic crises. [21, 22] In theory, national security elites
would stage, facilitate, or execute events that discipline politics
and policy by changing either the lineup of top policymakers
or the perceived constellation of major problems and
threats facing the social order. Their objectives would be to
foster social panic and militarism in the American mass public
and belligerency in U.S. foreign policy. [21]


Of course, the source of American neoconservative militarism
in the post-WWII era is an empirical question that
poses serious difficulties for observation because of extensive
government secrecy. There is also the potential for the object
of inquiry to turn on its observers and not simply elude detection
but deploy violence or other forms of force. Nevertheless,
experience shows that at least some access to this milieu
occasionally opens up, as it did with the Watergate hearings,
Nixon’s audiotapes, the Church Committee, and other inquiries.
Consequently, the failure of all major research and theoretical
traditions in U.S. social science to investigate the possibility
of strategic interventions by national security elites
and covert operatives into U.S. domestic politics can be reasonably
attributed to powerful norms in academia, as in the
broader society, against speculating about possible mischief
in high office. Indeed, it is likely that the CIA propaganda program
to instantiate the conspiracy-theory concept in America’s
civic culture was directed as much toward intellectuals
as ordinary citizens.
Of course, there is no reason to believe
that the CIA program that was discovered by a Freedom of
Information Act request is the only such CIA program that
has been, or is, shaping U.S. culture.

...

Today in the United States, intelligence agencies are generally
prohibited from carrying out covert actions against
American citizens, but this prohibition is not always honored.
When violations of the prohibition come to light, as
with the warrantless wiretaps of the Bush-Cheney administration,
they are dismissed as isolated mistakes of judgment
by overzealous officials. In actuality, however, U.S. military
and intelligence elites actively manipulate domestic affairs
as a matter of policy.


...

To the extent that national security elites
are influencing national political priorities by manipulating
the constellation of issues confronting the nation, all of the
theories in the social sciences and their associated research
programs are studying downstream phenomena while the
real explanation of events resides earlier in time and higher
in America’s authoritative hierarchy. In other words, it is
quite possible that the social sciences are studying shadows
and that the people making the shadows are designing
them for effect. Of course, this was how Plato described the
situation of the citizens, except that in his story, which we
must assume was a noble lie, the philosophers were helping
citizens understand the shadows, not using the shadows for
social control.


And this from Chap 5, SCAD, very HMW:

LINGUISTIC THOUGHT CONTROL
The 1967 CIA propaganda program shows that the United
States government has been actively engaged in engineering
America’s civic culture and has been alarmingly effective at
doing so. It appears that one of its methods is to insert memes
into the culture through a global network of media contacts
and assets.
The scholar most directly familiar with this propaganda
machine has compared it to a giant pipe organ, or
“Wurlitzer.” [23]

The possibility of cultural engineering in relation to 9/11,
the anthrax letter attacks, and other associated crimes should
be investigated. It should be assumed that covert cultural
operations involve inserting debilitating memes and perhaps
other forms of weaponized language into the discursive
arena to skew the search for meaning, agreement, and collective
action in the public sphere. These destructive memes
may have characteristics similar to those of the conspiracy-
theory label, which is normatively powerful but conceptually
fl awed and alien to America’s civic culture.

...

A SCAD approach to memes assumes further that the CIA
and other possibly participating agencies are formulating
memes well in advance of operations, and therefore SCAD
memes appear and are popularized very quickly before any
competing concepts are on the scene. The tendency in meme
analysis for marketing research is to track the life cycle
of memes from obscurity to popularity and then fadeout.
SCAD memes would be expected to become widely used very
quickly, block new memes from entry, and consequently have
a much longer longer shelf life than standard memes.


The rapidity with which the new language of the war on
terror appeared and took hold; the synergy between terms
and their mutual connections to WWII nomenclatures; and
above all the connections between many terms and the emergency
motif of “9/11” and “9-1-1”—any one of these factors
alone, but certainly all of them together—raise the possibility
that work on this linguistic construct began long before 9/11.
The decision had to be made that the core concept would be
the world-historic emergency before planning could be set
in motion around the September 11 date and downstream
terminology could be framed accordingly. In short, once we
recognize the centrality of 9/11 as a symbol and linguistic
core for what has materialized as a new paradigm of American
government (an endless emergency) and an American dominated
world order backed by military forces deployed
around the globe; once we recognize that NSC 68 put America
on the path of constructing U.S. civic culture to stand firm
against the threat of global thermonuclear warfare; once we
see that U.S. policy both domestically and internationally
has become subordinate to military plans and calculations
that envision the future, decades in advance, 9/11 itself is put
in a larger perspective, as is the hope and fate of American
democracy. It turns out that elite political crime, even treason,
may actually be official policy.
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Grizzly » Mon May 16, 2016 5:09 pm

Same ilk, as Samuel P. Huntington's, 'Clash Of Civilizations' and the many, many right-wing think tanks, such as, John M. Olin Foundation who sponsored his work. Think, 'Shock Doctrines', ... plans laying around...etc.
“The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

― Joseph mengele
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Harvey » Tue May 17, 2016 7:10 am

This is a core discussion for anyone who believes that change needs to be effected. Change will happen, it is inevitable. But will change come soon enough to offset catastrophic processes? That's one of many questions.

The only possible way to ensure necessary change is to do the hard work of attacking the whole constellation* of supporting ideas from the beginning up till today.For example economics works until it is applied. Intangibles like inequality, suffering, environment (including as yet unknown biological wealth) social and environmental health costs, economically necessary war (and its effects) etc etc are absolutely not part of the costing. As soon as that happens, economics disintegrates as a science, it is the new metaphysics. And the poorest are paying the largest part of the bill through tax. Bailouts, expensive wars, militarised police, interventions and other debts.

*An excellent word to indicate the 'three dimensional structure' which creates our the two dimensional illusion, the shadow on the cave wall.
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Harvey » Tue May 17, 2016 8:14 am

Sure, point taken. The catastrophe is and has been happening for some time. But still, how do "we" make this alright within ourselves in order to participate in the catastrophe at whatever scale of culpability. As Slavoj asks, "What binds me to the ruling ideology?"
And while we spoke of many things, fools and kings
This he said to me
"The greatest thing
You'll ever learn
Is just to love
And be loved
In return"


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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Pele'sDaughter » Tue May 17, 2016 8:33 am

We can only do our best and try to apply our integrity on the level at which we can and attempt to bring awareness of this situation to others. We can withdraw our support at least in spirit, because this system exists by agreement of the humans of which it is made.
Don't believe anything they say.
And at the same time,
Don't believe that they say anything without a reason.
---Immanuel Kant
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby semper occultus » Tue May 17, 2016 10:32 am

....how does he tie in with the "neo-Cons were Trotskyites" thing ...is that another "Frankfurt School" rabbit-hole...?
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby divideandconquer » Tue May 17, 2016 11:23 am

Pele'sDaughter » Tue May 17, 2016 8:33 am wrote:We can only do our best and try to apply our integrity on the level at which we can and attempt to bring awareness of this situation to others. We can withdraw our support at least in spirit, because this system exists by agreement of the humans of which it is made.


Exactly. It's gotten to the point where it is practically impossible to withdraw all of our support and continue to survive--unless you don't mind living without any of the conveniences and technology that most of us have come to rely on because we don't know how not to. However, you can refuse them your soul..do the best you can to tune out their constant propaganda, and decline to participate when possible.
'I see clearly that man in this world deceives himself by admiring and esteeming things which are not, and neither sees nor esteems the things which are.' — St. Catherine of Genoa
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed May 18, 2016 5:40 pm

Harvey » Tue May 17, 2016 8:14 am wrote:Sure, point taken. The catastrophe is and has been happening for some time. But still, how do "we" make this alright within ourselves in order to participate in the catastrophe at whatever scale of culpability. As Slavoj asks, "What binds me to the ruling ideology?"


Change will happen, it is inevitable. But will change come soon enough to offset catastrophic processes?


I believe if change was to come more quickly, the result too, will be catastrophic.

The only possible way to ensure necessary change is to do the hard work of attacking the whole constellation* of supporting ideas from the beginning up till today


I believe this would require what I would call "education," or "awareness."

"What binds me to the ruling ideology?"


^^^ Must be the first lesson.

I really don't know that we've passed a tipping point regarding climate change. We might have, but I'm reluctant to accept there's nothing we can do to lessen future suffering through our own actions today. Were I to accept there was nothing we could do, I would feel I was giving license to continue as we have been, to continue growing our economies. As I see it, in order to exact the changes we desire, we would need to establish a parallel economic system, perhaps one based upon barter, to undermine the wealth now controlling world economics and suffering.

Or, to put it differently, you've already stepped of a cliff, you're falling and surely will die when you hit bottom. Do you spend the limited time you have screaming all the way down in panic as your life flashes before your eyes, regretful for the wrongs you've caused and yearning for a future you'll now never know?

Or, understanding your plight, do you spend your time enjoying all beautiful scenery on the thrilling ride down?

Choices.

Some are easier than others.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Sounder » Wed May 18, 2016 6:41 pm

Pele'sDaughter wrote...
We can only do our best and try to apply our integrity on the level at which we can and attempt to bring awareness of this situation to others. We can withdraw our support at least in spirit, because this system exists by agreement of the humans of which it is made.


Yes, but why do we accept or make this agreement? The truth does bite but the alternative is far worse.

Iam wrote...
I believe this would require what I would call "education," or "awareness."


Education and awareness are two different birds if education is, essentially, what binds us to the ruling ideology.

Education is having understanding and ability to communicate with others on the nature of our categories and the correspondences and connections between the categories. But the model determines the meaning content and extent and breath of categories that are possible to use.

Therefor, education binds us to the ruling ideology.
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed May 18, 2016 8:39 pm

State Crimes Against Democracy

Sounder wrote,
Iam wrote...
I believe this would require what I would call "education," or "awareness."


Education and awareness are two different birds if education is, essentially, what binds us to the ruling ideology.

Education is having understanding and ability to communicate with others on the nature of our categories and the correspondences and connections between the categories. But the model determines the meaning content and extent and breath of categories that are possible to use.

Therefor, education binds us to the ruling ideology.


I don't doubt you believe this, Sounder, but perhaps I can change your point of view.

Take for example, I am aware of something you are not. If I share with you what it is that I am aware of that you are not, I have educated you. Or vice versa. And language is not necessary for education to occur.

You start off by posing what education might be and by the time you're finished, you've assigned it your own definition as if no other option's available. Interesting.

I doubt very much those being home-schooled feel bound to the ruling ideology, but agree if you limit it to the ideology held by the family educator. I believe that's true anywhere on earth. Home schooling allows education independent and often dramatically different from that offered by the ruling ideology.

Education allows us to break free from the ruling ideology.

We do see things differently. You seem to have all these little boxes you enjoy placing people in, whereas I prefer one box for everyone.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby guruilla » Wed May 18, 2016 9:21 pm

Iamwhomiam wrote:Take for example, I am aware of something you are not. If I share with you what it is that I am aware of that you are not, I have educated you.


There's a difference between informing someone and educating them.

& there's a difference between information-specific or mental awareness and awareness.

Seems to me that as long as our awareness depends on information and mental cognition, we are susceptible to manipulation from without.

Educare means something like to draw out what is innate. Developing this ability to tap into our innate awareness of what is true would make us immune to ideological indoctrination, so IMO that's the thing that's most essential to prevent happening, that's what keeps the mass as a mass to be herded, and so gives the elite something to do.

But I guess I am only stating the obvious to see how it sounds; not trying to "educate" anyone...
It is a lot easier to fool people than show them how they have been fooled.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Sounder » Wed May 18, 2016 9:58 pm

I don't doubt you believe this, Sounder, but perhaps I can change your point of view.


But I really like my own definition of what education is.

you've assigned it your own definition as if no other option's available. Interesting.


Really, I did that? (oftentimes in dictionary's there is more than one definition for any given word.)

I doubt very much those being home-schooled feel bound to the ruling ideology, but agree if you limit it to the ideology held by the family educator. I believe that's true anywhere on earth. Home schooling allows education independent and often dramatically different from that offered by the ruling ideology.


You are shitting me, right?

We do see things differently. You seem to have all these little boxes you enjoy placing people in, whereas I prefer one box for everyone.


No, no Iam, not 'all these little boxes', one big box, with the bravest of the brave peeking out over the edges of our box.

The Home-schoolers, you, I everybody operating under the false and fabricated assumptions of a split model of reality that treats the material and the physical as being fundamentally different.

Even if a few may believe that the spiritual and the material are fundamentally the same, daily interactions are drenched in a context of people unconsciously programmed to believe and act otherwise.

As I said to my wife at dinner tonight, ref to Chris Knowles and his good work; Humans are a rudimentary form of life, but we sure got spunk.

Our model of reality is the ruling ideology, JFC it’s a damn tautology. :wink
All these things will continue as long as coercion remains a central element of our mentality.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Sounder » Wed May 18, 2016 10:16 pm

I doubt very much those being home-schooled feel bound to the ruling ideology


Home-schoolers very much want to not be bound to the ruling ideology, which goes to show that they are bound to that ideology.

Everybody likes to think they are something special, able to cut the chord that binds.

I'll believe that when I see it.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Iamwhomiam » Wed May 18, 2016 11:24 pm

I don't know that I completely agree with you Guruilla, but one must become aware of what they were once unaware of, in order for education to occur.

I should say I'm not giving this much thought. And I was not becoming philosophical.

Were I to do that, I would suggest all in existence and memory in our individual realities is nothing but an illusion created by one consciousness, one most are not aware of.

So, in that, we are all connected and unable to be separate under any condition.

And willingly or not, we all support it's continuity, endlessly.
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Re: Leo Strauss, Plato's Noble Lies, & Cultural Engineering

Postby Sounder » Fri May 20, 2016 7:38 am

guruilla wrote...
Developing this ability to tap into our innate awareness of what is true would make us immune to ideological indoctrination, so IMO that's the thing that's most essential to prevent happening, that's what keeps the mass as a mass to be herded, and so gives the elite something to do.


The undercurrents of the long story has been the suppression of enthusiasm and spontaneity, our heart connection or inner awareness.

Pure rationality as our only path is not rational at all.
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