"What the Bleep Do We Know?"

[albion]

i am not a physicist but i have learned to become very tired, very quickly, of gratuitous newage references to heisenberg's uncetainty principle as if were some sort of cosmic commandment. <br><br>and, did everyone notice that that salon review was written by the indispensable john gorenfeld, author of the <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Where in Washington, D.C. is Sun Myung Moon?</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> blog! thanks again john!<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.iapprovethismessiah.com/">www.iapprovethismessiah.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[wolf pauli]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>So, Mr. Pauli, how about some of your own comments on the relationship between mind and matter. </em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>I'm in print in peer-reviewed journals on the issue, and no, I'm not divulging my name here. Nor is this the place I'd seek feedback on my thoughts on the mind-body problem. <br><br>That's not meant as a put-down, it's just how things are.<br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Verbal exchange does serve purposes other than intellectual combat for some of us.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Yes, and some of those purposes, such as deceiving unsuspecting readers, whether intentionally or through a combination of willfulness and ignorance, are a lot less reputable than honest, informed, intellectual combat. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Do you think quantum weirdness might offer some insight into this age old mystery?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <br><br>No. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Your namesake, if I recall, delved into ideas like synchronicity and the interaction of mind and matter</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>But not as a physicist. He made it quite clear that certain issues lay beyond the scope of physics and can't be properly formulated, let alone addressed, without a mathematically precise, unified psycho-physical language. He also made it clear that he and his contemporaries -- Einstein, Heisenberg, Bohr, Dirac, etc. -- were <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>nowhere near</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> achieving such a language. And FWIW, I'd add that in that respect, nothing has changed since his death. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[human]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>If you're not up on the topic, why attempt to discuss it?</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>this attitude sucks.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[wolf pauli]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>If you're not up on the topic, discuss it as though you were.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>This attitude sucks.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[needaname]

It's really interesting that this movie is conguring up waaay to many objections, and by people who haven't even seen it! It's not a movie really, it's more like a documentary, and a highly intelligent one! You know, we can all make up our own minds, and for those who are "protesting too much", it really makes me wonder.<br>Hey, I don't know what reality is for sure, but it's got to beat this garbage way of living that's happening to us now.<br><br>And this article, sounds like the same old demeaning stuff to me. Does anyone ever refer to men as a "blonde man"? And the chiropractor has a list of credentials that is extremely impressive, as do all the others. To label him as merely a chiropractor, sounds like a right wing insult game. Here it is from a post above:<br><br>"Beware: A ridiculous new science movie is coming to a theater near you. ... Not until the credits roll, when the “experts” are finally introduced, do we learn that the two people who do most of the talking about neuroscience and physics are not actually scientists. One is a chiropractor. The other is a 35,000-year-old warrior named Ramtha, who is being “channeled” by a blonde woman from Washington. Oh, and the chiropractor is one of her devotees. As are the filmmakers. In short, what we’ve got here are the musings of a cult masquerading as a science documentary. ...<br><br>Hmmm.... here's a concept....why don't the objector's agree to let people check it out for themselves and then decide..... unless there's some sort of problem with that.<br><br>It's crazy.... I'm having to defend this movie....IT"S ONLY A MOVIE, for crying out loud, as if I have some sort of stake in it....and I don't! They can't keep us from thinking for ourselves. Oh, and it's won several film festival awards, non of which the Bush cabal would approve of I'm sure. No thinking for yourself cause everyone must be under control, just ask the cabal. And the statement that the channeler does most of the talking, that is a pure d. lie. What do you know, a reporter giving his own opinion, maybe w/ his own agenda. She wasn't my favorite for sure.... but you decide.<br>Hey, everyone may like her and become a devotee and give anyway their family fortures! Who knows, who cares! End of rant.<br><br>1984 is a great book , and the movie 1984 is gripping!<br><br>khrishna, hari khrishna.... hee hee, just kidding<br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :b --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

LOL...I gotta take you out for a virtual beer sometime, Wolfy.<br><br>I shouldn't post because I'm not "up on the topic".<br><br>But you won't post because you know too much on the topic! <br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><br>I'm in print in peer-reviewed journals on the issue, and no, I'm not divulging my name here. Nor is this the place I'd seek feedback on my thoughts on the mind-body problem.<br><br>That's not meant as a put-down, it's just how things are.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I love it. And FWIW, I would not dare to offer "feedback" though I might have a question or two. <br><br>And since there are some topics that I'm not sure I'm "up on" enough to post about, I guess I'd better clear them through you<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Yes, and some of those purposes, such as deceiving unsuspecting readers, whether intentionally or through a combination of willfulness and ignorance, are a lot less reputable than honest, informed, intellectual combat.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Well, I guess you got me there. I'm sure somebody's life is now ruined because I did not give a sufficiently detailed analysis of wave-particle duality. I'm glad this is an anonymous forum or I'd get my ass sued. <br><br>I know, I will give you some rubber stamps. One will say "deceptive", one will say "ignorance" and one will say "willful" and you can then stamp my posts with whichever one applies. You can mix and match. I'll even toss in a variety of different colored inks!<br><br>However, now limited to topics in which I can exercise enough expertise to meet your standards, I find myself unable to post anything, much to your great pleasure. Truly, while before I thought an exchange of ideas, even ideas considered ill informed by others, is the purpose of such forums, (as opposed to Kos or DU, anyway) now I am too intimidated to offer even ideas formerly thought certain for fear of your blistering intellectual ripostes. <br><br> <br><br><br><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>

[needaname]

I live in an area of the country where other films raise a lot of controversy too, and are NOT SHOWN in theaters in a city of 2 million. Which ones you ask? Oh, the terrible Kinsey, and even more recently a blasphemous IMAX film about VOLCANOES!!!!! Banned!<br> <p></p><i></i>

[wolf pauli]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Hmmm.... here's a concept....why don't the objector's agree to let people check it out for themselves and then decide..... unless there's some sort of problem with that.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>No problem at all, as far as I can see. <br><br>I can also see no problem with warning people in advance that the filmmakers <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>intentionally distorted</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the views of someone I know to be a thoroughly honest and decent man, and a serious expert in his field. I know for a fact this is what the filmmakers did. Albert gave them 4 hours of interview. His comments clearly didn't fit their agenda. At that point, they had three options: <br><br>(1) Use the material anyway, though it undermines their agenda.<br>(2) Omit the material, because it undermines their agenda.<br>(3) Use the material, but edit it in such a way as to make it <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>appear</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> to fit their agenda, completely distorting Albert's views in the process. <br><br>The filmmakers <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>elected</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> to do the third thing -- no one forced them. That's why I said they acted in a libelous, deceitful, and dishonorable way, and that's why I cautioned people about this film. If someone has a problem with me pointing this out, let me know. <br> <p></p><i></i>

[biaothanatoi]

"What the bleep ... " was hysterical. I was there with a friend and we had to leave fifteen minutes in. We were laughing too hard. It was the worst film I have ever seen. <br><br>I only found at afterwards the the fairy-floss haired woman with the plastic surgery who was actually channelling a 30 000 year old warrior spirit. Can't say it was a suprise. <p></p><i></i>

[smiths]

anyone would think that you it was high school boys arguing over the size of their penis'<br>like 'asta' said, if you think you really know something about a topic and you are genuinely interested in community and better days offer "a flower of friendship and the hand of guidance instead of hitting him over the head with the sledgehammer of judgment"<br><br>and i'll tell you something i know from a friend whos also a peer reviewed physicist and an impatient elitist,<br>wave particle duality doesnt make sense. end of story.<br>an anyone who thinks they have the answers or the knowledge is full of shit. for the first time in many years there is interesting forward motion occuring with some ideas but no-one knows.<br>any theory that needs a thousand sub theories and addendums for it to work occasionaly is ridiculous.<br>and while i'm ranting, universe my arse! big bang my arse! inflation my arse! even hubble only ever carefully referred to it as 'percieved' inflation through red shift.<br>no one knows. so lets all chuck in the theories and make some mistakes and ask as many questions as we possibly can to keep it all moving <p></p><i></i>

[metaxa]

What the Bleep is at best an entry point - an introduction to alternative viewpoints on the nature of reality. <br><br>Quantum physics has become the framework of legitimacy that every non-traditional new-ager hangs their flowy robes upon. New agers and quantum physicists don't mix. Nothing wrong with Ramtha (except for her/his belief that there is something magic in Twinkies), nothing worng with Heisenberg. Just don't mix. Like ammonia & bleach. Bad idea. <p></p><i></i>

[jfshade]

My dear M,<br>You know that juxtaposing "Nothing wrong with Ramtha" and "something magic in Twinkies" (even parenthetically) in the same sentence is the sort of ill-advised attempt at reconciliation sure to draw the ire of all in the muck of this thread's mighty failure to communicate. So pull out that toe; perhaps our correspondent Mr. Pauli might wish at some point to offer his perspective on certain quantum physicists who have attempted to recast the subject's basic tenets in light of their unease with the implications of the prevailing theory. I'm moving out of my depth here, but have the physicist David Bohm in mind in particular. <p></p><i></i>

[wolf pauli]

Thankfully, there's a moral we can derive from this discussion. Deliberate, libelous distortion of the views of an honest and learned person in an internationally distributed film merits no rebuke, but speak the truth in the wrong 'tone' on this forum and woe betides you! You'll be branded a 'gatekeeper' and an 'impatient elitist'. Delicious. <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>universe my arse! big bang my arse! inflation my arse!</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Now <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>there's</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> that tone of humility we love so well. Let us aspire to it.<br><br><br>"The present age is like the Ark of the Lord. Woe to anyone who touches it!"<br> <p></p><i></i>

[smiths]

fair comment wolf,<br>guilty as charged.<br>ive read quite a few posts in the last few days where people are getting worked up and challenging each other and a whole lot of israel related arguements that just go on and on and then when i came to ask for calm i didnt stop to take a few deep breaths myself, and so i will aspire towards a bit of humility,<br>ps. thought your rebuke on said film's distortions was totally fair <p></p><i></i>

[human]

what if Ramtha is real?<br><br>and some are too blinded by scientific dogma to see it?<br><br>what if your science cult is no better than the next mans cult?<br><br>what if everything you know is wrong, and you dont find out until you die?<br><br>or what if i took a big shit on your peer reviewed journal, guantanamo koran style, while reading the latest David Icke book & achieving nirvana?<br><br>what if you are right?<br><br>what if life's NOT a bitch, shes a beautiful queen who wouldnt let you fuck?<br><br>what if i deleted what i just typed instead of posting it?<br><br><br>what if your ultimate test in life was whether you shared or prefered masturbating your ego? and what if you failed miserably and are now going to burn in hell for all eternity?<br><br>what if God is not only real, but hes a mexican guy who rides the 7 train in queens everyday and sells batteries?<br><br><br>i mean, what if what is why and who is how?<br><br><br><br>really, what the fuck do we know?<br><br><br>lol.<br><br>shit, admitting to myself I dont know anything is the most spiritual experience ive had.<br><br>one<br>human? (with a muthafuckin question mark!)<br><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>