Bernie Sanders running for preznit?

[8bitagent]

What happens when Bernie is Hilary's VP nominee?

A chorus of "sell out" and disillusionment begins...but I don't think this would ever happen. And hoping Warren doesn't take the bait

I don't know a single leftist or Sanders supporters who'd dare vote for Hillary or her rapist husband's golfing buddy Trump

[8bitagent]

A lot of people don't know this term:

You can't win to lose.

My grandma used to say that. It just means all of the best intentions in the world will still gain you enemies. That hit piece there is something else. Did the author bother to ask what the "real" Sanders supporters stand for? I really truly believe that real Sanders supporters would not do any of what we have heard, hence that is why he is liked. Since I can only speak for myself, I would do what Sanders has already done and disown them. But the damage has been done. When did you stop beating your wife? Or however it goes.

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/loadques.html

No. Sanders should not get out. In some way or the other he was set up for this to happen. I don't think he is the great "white hope" as it were, but he has been vilified since day one starting here in Seattle. He has decades, a lifetime of integrity and honesty under his belt. The incongruity is glaring. Same thing sorta happened with Nader. Some liberal sites I used to read blamed us for dubya. When the real story was fraud and deception. Yet it blamed on us "turncoat" Nader people.

Just win CA, which I think he will "in theory" and peel off as an indie. The only reason I got all the Sanders calls is because I am a registered D. It gained his campaign access to the database of likely liberals and I've had the same number for almost 20 years. I did so to vote for Kucinich. This shit be getting blowed up! It is fucked and is only going to get worse.

When fascist Trump wins, Sanders will sadly be seen as the "Nader spoiler" by idiot low information Democraps, instead of seeing it as "oh shit, maybe we should have picked Sanders as he could have gone toe to toe with Trump"

Either way, sadly looks like its going to be WW3 Hillary or her pedo rapist husband's golfing buddy

[8bitagent]

Apparently Zogby is a BDS proponent, so that's a mark in his favor:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/james-zog ... 75794.html

It's bad enough he's going to keep his promise of an endorsement, do you really see him making a historical mockery of himself by joining the ticket and then participating in the destruction of all that he stands for?

It is bad he's going to support her. He won't be on the ticket, thankfully.

The dumbest thing about the strategy he's taken is his belief he can effectuate real reform inside the Democratic Party. WTF?? You just raised a couple hundred million dollars 20 bucks at a time from real flesh and blood human beings, making yourself the 2nd or 3rd most powerful liberal/Democrat in the country in the process. HOW DO YOU NOT TAKE THAT MONEY MACHINE AND BOLT FOR A FRESH START? Announce a 3rd party run, implore your supporters to support down-ticket Democrats against Republicans, risk a President Trump with a Democratic Senate majority and a much more balanced House, ensuring nothing really bad (or nothing worse than a war-mongering Clinton presidency) happens, and then in 4 years you have hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars to run a presidential campaign and contest dozens of federal congressional districts and state house/senate races across the country! How can he not want that, after the impression he's made?

A Trump win will be the best thing for real progressives, the midterms will hopefully flood into progressive columns and 2020 will be a real liberal reformer. It's hard to see how any Democrat at this point doesn't see the extreme entitlement of HRC at this point

[Wombaticus Rex]

Alternate Take: Hillary Clinton isn't working in concert with Donald Trump; she's actually working with Bernie Sanders.

The persistence of Bernie's support allows her to 1) raise money from centrist and even conservative donors while 2) liberalizing the DNC platform under the guise of "making concessions" to Senator Sanders. Meanwhile, the most progressive / socialist elements of Sanders demographic get burned out, alienated, and made an example of: There Is No Alternative.

And, it's working so far. End result: DNC strongly positioned for 2020 while GOP has a decade of repairs ahead before they're even operational again.

[brekin]

What happens when Bernie is Hilary's VP nominee?

What happens when she picks Romney? Asking because that's a likelier scenario.

CYA NOTE: I suppose it's possible if certain extremely unlikely conditions are met: Sanders comes back to win on pledged delegates, the supers give it to Clinton anyway, upheaval ensues, and Obama and Biden step in to broker a salvation deal. Which they won't do, and neither Clinton nor Sanders will accept. It's bad enough he's going to keep his promise of an endorsement, do you really see him making a historical mockery of himself by joining the ticket and then participating in the destruction of all that he stands for? I suppose another scenario is an indictment, but that's not happening either. Even then, bottom line, Clintons are no different than Bushes. They will stay 100% within their own circle of made men.

All of which admittedly is just blah-blah speculation, stated with confidence, like the rest of what we're writing here.

It will be Tim Kaine, by the way:
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... -tim-kaine

That his photo looks as if he hits the sauce hard is just about the best that can be said for him. Also, he paid dues as an immigration lawyer before starting the usual modern politician's career as a hardcore neoliberal.

Sanders is 74. This is his last hurrah. He'll go down as just another annoyingly progressive Senator from a tiny state or he'll be able to sit at the adults table a little longer if he takes "the deal". Quite a few VP's have effectively been frozen out of their own administrations or just been interesting furniture with one or two pet causes. I could see his hubris causing him to remain a contra voice until the end of his career as the college students thin away and he's just another professionally outraged progressive voice who gets a rare public radio interview now and again or it causing him to accept and get a modicum of prestige and access to those who actually make shit happen and Hilary will let him loose on a few progressive but not paradigm changing "Bernie Projects".

Why would Hilary want such a pill and critic in her own administration? I think it would be her progressive insurance. He won't split the party vote or ideologically wise. Once elected, she'll wheel him out, perhaps literally as time goes on, as evidence that her administration is inclusive, can take criticism and has progressive social democratic bonafides. "Remember I'm the one who tried to push through national health insurance when I was only the First Lady! Right Bernie?" (Bernie giggles and nods affirmatively in response so as not to botch his program of 15% of federal buildings be 10% solar powered.)

Granted, yes, this is getting into the speculative fiction realm, but with super villain Trump on the loose I say why not roll the bones and consult the Book of Changes? Also, I seriously doubt, at times, most of the rhetoric and theatrics from both the top level Dems and Reps about the hand wringing over and "surprise, surprise" of Trump and Bernie.
And likewise, Bernie thinks Obama, quibbles and qualifications aside, has done a pretty good job, so why would working for Hilary be so bad. There are no accidental Kings, Popes or Presidents. Or if there are then, then there ain't no reigning overarching conspiracy and Happy Xmas, War is Over.





Happy Xmas, War is Over

So this is Xmas
And what have you done
Another year over
And a new one just begun
And so this is Xmas
I hope you have fun
The near and the dear one
The old and the young

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
For weak and for strong (if you want it)
For rich and the poor ones (war is over)
The world is so wrong (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
For black and for white (if you want it)
For yellow and red ones (war is over)
Let's stop all the fight (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

And so this is Xmas (war is over)
And what have we done (if you want it)
Another year over (war is over)
A new one just begun (if you want it)
And so happy Xmas (war is over)
We hope you have fun (if you want it)
The near and the dear one (war is over)
The old and the young (now)

A very Merry Xmas
And a happy New Year
Let's hope it's a good one
Without any fear

War is over, if you want it
War is over now

Happy Xmas

[JackRiddler]

I could see his hubris

Well, we will see. I don't see "his hubris" at all, and the way he acts does not indicate he's interested in last hurrahs that have no chance of advancing the causes he consistently speaks for or that make him a personal slave to the machine he's been fighting. By temperament he seems to prefer either to win or to stay on the (relative) outside. This is a very long-distance judgement, of course. I really do not think he entered the contest for himself, but because he saw the time was right for what he's been doing, and that no one else was going to take the opportunity. It does not mean he is a hero or will not make mistakes.

Anyway, such an offer will absolutely not come his way.

[brekin]

I could see his hubris

Well, we will see. I don't see "his hubris" at all, and the way he acts does not indicate he's interested in last hurrahs that have no chance of advancing the causes he consistently speaks for or that make him a personal slave to the machine he's been fighting. By temperament he seems to prefer either to win or to stay on the (relative) outside. This is a very long-distance judgement, of course. I really do not think he entered the contest for himself, but because he saw the time was right for what he's been doing, and that no one else was going to take the opportunity. It does not mean he is a hero or will not make mistakes.

Anyway, such an offer will absolutely not come his way.

Jeez, its no fun when I'm the cynical one, Jack.

[Iamwhomiam]

Mr. WRex wrote, "...rhetoric just chafes me so hard when I know The House Always Wins."

We have an exception to the rule: "Not when Trump owns the House."

[82_28]

All the people running are within 6 years, give or take.

Trump 69
Clinton 68
Sanders 74

[JackRiddler]

What do the actuarial tables say, actuarially?

Male, 74:

One year death probability, 0.033997

(3.3% chance of dying per year, rising a bit every year = about 15-16% chance of death before Jan. 2021)

Life expectancy, 11.55 years.

Female, 68 - I'll give her the lower number:

One year death probability, 0.013261

(1.3% chance of dying per year, rising = about 6-7% chance in four years)

Life expectancy, 17.85.

Data from https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/table4c6.html

[brekin]

There is death, and then there is political death.

[JackRiddler]

Anyway, the standard actuarial table includes everyone of a given age regardless of health, lifestyle, social class or underlying conditions, and is therefore near-meaningless for any given individual.

[JackRiddler]

Jeez, its no fun when I'm the cynical one, Jack.

How cynical can you be if you seriously think the Clintonista machine would ever contemplate taking on Sanders as VP?

[backtoiam]

There is death, and then there is political death.

We are watching alchemy in progress. Something will be forged from this. What exactly comes out I don't know. But you can bet on this...this whole process is being thrown under the red hot lights of the media and has been scripted to delight the writers. I don't know exactly what we will end up with but in nuance ways I suspect we are watching a game changer.

[redsock]

I can see Hillary picking Palin as VP before I see her even thinking about Sanders.