Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[FourthBase]

I'm fucking retarded, just ignore me.

Be nice if others around here, who like to pepper their foolish diatribes with fucking this and fucking that would, even once, admit the same (or, even better, add this statement permanently to their sig).

Show me the most recent "diatribe" you can find. It is all mostly commentary and links. You need to get out more. A pointed fuck you gets you suspended, but a "I can't believe what I am fucking seeing here" is much different. Would you rather have people in their "diatribes" use the word "fuck" in a different language that way you don't understand it?

No problem here with "fucking" used as something to light-heartedly spice up the conversation, as you are occasionally inclined to use it, 82 (I'm from a cussing culture, so I certainly know the value of such!). I was thinking of instances where "fucking" is used as part of a conversational assault weapon (the verbal equivalent of the alleged killer's automatic rifle), with the speaker affecting a tone of indignant outrage to shoot down any questions, speculations, or observations which they, in their infinite wisdom, have deemed unworthy of being asked, raised, or shared on this board (if they cannot be raised here, of all places, why does this board even still exist???), going on to punish the offender by mounting a hostile attack upon their intelligence, ethics, values, and/or character. (The implication of this being, of course, that it is they alone who occupy the moral higher ground, and are therefore themselves the ones crowned with Virtue, who can see clearly where others here are deluded or deceived, if not downright Satanic.)

I frequently use "fucking". You aren't talking about me, though, I presume. Are you?

[nashvillebrook]

If there's anyone left on this board that still has any rigor left to their intuition, let's just be perfectly clear.

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people, and Orlando has reacted in the best way possible to a whole weekend of being under siege. Don't forget that this didn't start with Mateen. The singer from The Voice was shot on Friday night at a club just a few miles away in basically the same neighborhood.

In terms of Orlando feeling like a MIC "soft target," hell yes, it's hard not to feel that way. We remember the FBI killing the Tordeshev here. And here's something that few people can understand about Central Florida if you don't live here right now: we are one of the most diverse populations AND have the lowest wages in the country. We're surrounded by military and the diversity of culture around us reflect the wars this country has fought, both hot and COLD wars. We're aware that some of those conflicts are likely ongoing.

So do us all a favor -- if you're going to indulge in speculation, at least be rigorous. Don't pull the Sandy Hook crap and make the whole enterprise of questioning seem insane.

WR, I know very well that there will be no trial. No public inquiry either, no public access to any relevant information, and no questions asked of The Authorities. Of course there won't be. The USA has been post-legal and post-real at least since the start of the The War on Terror. This is not news, nor is it even a secret; people just prefer to forget, ignore or suppress that knowledge. That's why they live in their TVs, And they often get really annoyed if you have the temerity to remind them of anything that happened more than five minutes ago, because you're spoiling their fun with all that context shit and that history bunk. Give the government a chance, man! Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy, y'know! Take every case on its merits!

[FourthBase]

I'm no expert on the world's terrorist attacks. The four in the US & UK this century have certainly all been "PTB setups", yes.

Wait...only four?

[stickdog99]

If there's anyone left on this board that still has any rigor left to their intuition, let's just be perfectly clear.

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people.

So you've seen the video? Read the ballistics report? Interviewed the off duty policeman Mateen supposedly first got into a firefight with? Reconstructed a timeline of who Mateen individually murdered where and when vs. who got killed in the initial firefight and who got killed in the SWAT team's rescue operation?

Again, I am willing to believe whatever the evidence shows, But there is nothing rigorous about the way you and corporate media have convicted Mateen of killing 50 people singlehandedly.

[nashvillebrook]

Alex Jones can use a few good men like yourself. The rest of the world would really like to know what's really going on.

If there's anyone left on this board that still has any rigor left to their intuition, let's just be perfectly clear.

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people.

So you've seen the video? Read the ballistics report? Interviewed the off duty policeman Mateen supposedly first got into a firefight with? Reconstructed a timeline of who Mateen individually murdered where and when vs. who got killed in the initial firefight and who got killed in the SWAT team's rescue operation?

Again, I am willing to believe whatever the evidence shows, But there is nothing rigorous about the way you and corporate media have convicted Mateen of killing 50 people singlehandedly.

[Heaven Swan]

Nashville brook wrote:

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people, and Orlando has reacted in the best way possible to a whole weekend of being under siege. Don't forget that this didn't start with Mateen. The singer from The Voice was shot on Friday night at a club just a few miles away in basically the same neighborhood.

Was it here that I saw recent photos of Mateen's father hobbnobbing with Washington officials? Wasn't his father aligned with American supported factions?

Didn't know about the Voice singer shooting so I looked it up.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/fan-who-murdered-christina-grimmie-was-obsessed-with-voice-singer/

More male violence against women. Gavin De Becker in his book "The Gift of Fear" talks about similar shootings and attacks on women actors and singers by men who become obsessed with them and believe they are in a relationship. The book should be required reading for women, although I doubt his advice could have saved Christina.

If you're in Orlando please consider that you may be suffering the first stages of PTSD and take care of yourself.

[MacCruiskeen]

If there's anyone left on this board that still has any rigor left to their intuition, let's just be perfectly clear.

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people.

So you've seen the video? Read the ballistics report? Interviewed the off duty policeman Mateen supposedly first got into a firefight with? Reconstructed a timeline of who Mateen individually murdered where and when vs. who got killed in the initial firefight and who got killed in the SWAT team's rescue operation?

Again, I am willing to believe whatever the evidence shows, But there is nothing rigorous about the way you and corporate media have convicted Mateen of killing 50 people singlehandedly.

Stickdog, well said (yet again). I wish you luck in getting a reply.

In fact, thanks for everything you post, in this thread and every other RI thread concerning mass murders, especially those attributed to "Islamist" "suicide" terrorists. You are always polite, you're never sarcastic, you rarely if ever use the f-word, your posts are succinct, knowledgeable, well-written and well-argued, and the questions you ask are always the right questions, i.e. they are the very obvious, important and pressing questions that no fuc blessed journalist ever asks.

The result? You rarely if ever get a reply. Everything you say -- every question you raise, every shocking fact you point out -- is carefully and studiously ignored. Your style and your manners cannot be faulted. So everyone just blanks you and then blathers on as if you'd never said anything at all.

Meanwhile, I am getting attacked without being named (NaturalMystik, nashvillebrooke, identity, I'm looking at you ), while PMs (private messages) are exchanged about how simply awful I am for using the f-word. And nothing I actually say is ever addressed by these heroes of rickety inanition. They're just hopping mad at being disturbed in their comfort zone, where they wish to swallow & regurgitate government propaganda at their leisure.

Look at the state of this board in 2016! It's no puzzle why Jeff Wells has abandoned it. He is the inventor of the term 'rigorous intuition', after all.

No wonder he's sought refuge in his native Canada.

[divideandconquer]

Rigorous intuition includes believing that a lone gunman with an AR15, or sig sauer, both semi-automatics which can't spray bullets, takes on 300 people and wounds or kills almost half of them? With no hard evidence? I don't think a crack shot trained assassin or a special forces professional could pull off that kind of kill rate. We only believe this level of weapon handling is possible because of Rambo, The Terminator, etc. Anyway, how did a guy the FBI was supposedly watching get hold of AR-15 in the first place?

And what happened when he changed magazines? Made phone calls? Collected phones? Pledged allegiance to ISIS? Exchanged fire with police? No one grabbed a bottle or bottles and threw them at him? No one rushes him from behind. They just stand there and let this man shoot them? What? Because they were gay, they weren't able to defend themselves? Then, we get the story of the guy holding the exit door shut. Really? Against a hundred panicked--adrenaline charged--people?

If you've been paying attention since the very beginning you will have noticed key aspects of the narrative changing with certain stories and videos deleted as fast as they're posted. The numerous witnesses censored by the mainstream and social media?

Then, the trouble identifying people at a nightclub? Have you ever gotten into a nightclub in the last 10 years without ID?

And on and on and on...

[nashvillebrook]

Yeah, my coalition partners have been providing grief counseling to the community and creating both latino and LGBT channels of support. i had been sick with pneumonia wed, thur and friday, and was just recovering when Pulse happened. then i had to switch to policy research for my job. there's interest in G4S as a potential target of investigation. pressure needs to be applied there.

as for PTSD, i've not been able to be very productive since about Tuesday. everyone i know is depressed. every other person i know lost someone. the whole political world is turned upside down. people who are trying to make actual change are being castigated while those who are swanning around in the blood of the victims get off scot free.

the establishment IS scoring points here, and they ARE using this to their political advantage...and doing it in a rather sophisticated way. just look at how marco rubio re-started his political career off of this. it was b/c Bill Nelson (a Democrat) who chauffeured him around on Sunday as a "member of the Senate Intelligence Committee," and therefore a "grown up in the room," to catapult the wild IS speculations. Ergo, the D's are proving that they'd rather have a retrograde R in the Senate, than a progressive D, like Alan Grayson -- who was on site trying to actually do the work of contacting next of kin. it's sickening.

they want Little Marco b/c he's a bought and paid for intelligence committee, MIC errand boy. they're scared to death of Grayson who has a history of whistleblowing on military malfeasance. that's why Obama/Biden came down w/o a Grayson invite (it's his Congression district), and have endorsed his opponent in the primary.

When they say both parties are the same, this is what they're talking about. they ARE the same, save for just a few of the good ones who are ganged up on like the enemy.

Nashville brook wrote:

If you're saying that it wasn't Omar Mateen who shot more than 100 persons at the Pulse, you're beyond redemption. Look at his familial ties, the G4S connection, whether there was some sort of coordination with the erstwhile CA attacker -- all of that is relevant. But dude -- Omar Mateen shot those people, and Orlando has reacted in the best way possible to a whole weekend of being under siege. Don't forget that this didn't start with Mateen. The singer from The Voice was shot on Friday night at a club just a few miles away in basically the same neighborhood.

Was it here that I saw recent photos of Mateen's father hobbnobbing with Washington officials? Wasn't his father aligned with American supported factions?

Didn't know about the Voice singer shooting so I looked it up.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/16/fan-who-murdered-christina-grimmie-was-obsessed-with-voice-singer/

More male violence against women. Gavin De Becker in his book "The Gift of Fear" talks about similar shootings and attacks on women actors and singers by men who become obsessed with them and believe they are in a relationship. The book should be required reading for women, although I doubt his advice could have saved Christina.

If you're in Orlando please consider that you may be suffering the first stages of PTSD and take care of yourself.

[Burnt Hill]

While disbelieving everything the ptb mic teevee media tells us, why stop, and then believe that this Omar Mateen was actually killed?
and/or the San Bernardino couple? That info also came from the teevee media mic complex.
This belief fits your narrative, yet it is just as much questionable info as that which gets derided, is it not?
The disbelief stops, and the passion begins for people that don't necessarily exist in the context of the paradigm you have created..

[FourthBase]

I'm no expert on the world's terrorist attacks. The four in the US & UK this century have certainly all been "PTB setups", yes.

Wait...only four?

Maybe the third time's the charm.

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

[nashvillebrook]

When was the last time you were in a club at 2am? everyone is drunk and tired. it's packed and frenzied. people thought the shots were part of the music. it's dark, there's stage lighting that fucks with your senses. people panic and run for the doors.

have you heard the audio of the gunshots? I have. they weren't "spray and pray." they were slow and deliberate.

do you know the history of the guy with his training buddy down in Port St. Lucie? he'd been training for quite some time.

Further, do you have any idea what FBI contacts actually do when they get hold of these guys? he was contacted twice (while still working with G4S). They try to instigate them. This could have been one who got away -- who went "solo" and wanted to do their project, but not their way. Or maybe he had a contact on the outside...that "Brandy" person that the CA shooter referred to.

there's plenty of ways this can be manipulated without having to discredit the whole alt-investigative enterprise by denying the ultra-clear fact that Mateen killed people.

and you know what...if you pull a bunch of string and you get some evidence (real evidence) that he wasn't the shooter, more power to ya. but for now, the most good, for the most people can only be done thru rigorous questioning rooted in reality.

Rigorous intuition includes believing that a lone gunman with an AR15, or sig sauer, both semi-automatics which can't spray bullets, takes on 300 people and wounds or kills almost half of them? With no hard evidence? I don't think a crack shot trained assassin or a special forces professional could pull off that kind of kill rate. We only believe this level of weapon handling is possible because of Rambo, The Terminator, etc. Anyway, how did a guy the FBI was supposedly watching get hold of AR-15 in the first place?

And what happened when he changed magazines? Made phone calls? Collected phones? Pledged allegiance to ISIS? Exchanged fire with police? No one grabbed a bottle or bottles and threw them at him? No one rushes him from behind. They just stand there and let this man shoot them? What? Because they were gay, they weren't able to defend themselves? Then, we get the story of the guy holding the exit door shut. Really? Against a hundred panicked--adrenaline charged--people?

If you've been paying attention since the very beginning you will have noticed key aspects of the narrative changing with certain stories and videos deleted as fast as they're posted. The numerous witnesses censored by the mainstream and social media?

Then, the trouble identifying people at a nightclub? Have you ever gotten into a nightclub in the last 10 years without ID?

And on and on and on...

[MacCruiskeen]

Mac, do you actually think there have only been four terrorist attacks in the US & UK this century?

Oh ffs heavens to betsy, I listed the four biggest ones, the four actual mass murders, according to your FBI's definition. But five, if you like, including Boston (3 dead).

So whodunnit, FourthBase? And did Dzhokhar Tsarnaev get a fair trial, d'you think? (While we wait for your considered reply, the suspense is bearable, for you are nothing if not unsurprising.)

[82_28]

Again, if last call had already been called, the guys working the door would have sealed the way in and turned everyone away from entering or re-entering. Maybe, maybe not, I wasn't there. One question to ask is whether Mateen had a wristband on his wrist or stamp on his hand. Getting into clubs means you get frisked and then IDed or vice versa. At least it would be basic protocol here. However, the youngest of the victims was 18. What was an 18 year old doing there? I assume fake ID and/or very lax security. Makes no sense in my experience with crowded clubs. But if one of the security detail was a police officer, it would seem security was not or could be lax. You got me. I'm sticking by stashed weapons at an earlier time or multiple shooters. Again, you got me. Details it seems have gotten all of us who were not there. It seems a pretty open and shut investigation unless it's not in which we have more questions on our hands.

[FourthBase]

Rigorous intuition includes believing that a lone gunman with an AR15, or sig sauer, both semi-automatics which can't spray bullets, takes on 300 people and wounds or kills almost half of them? With no hard evidence?

They were unarmed fish in a fucking barrel. He didn't "take them on", because he faced absolutely zero resistance. It was target practice. They might as well have been first graders.

I don't know when you and the others here demanding "hard evidence" expect it. It's been a fucking week. I also suspect, based on your insane hoaxer history, that no form of evidence will ever be hard enough. Audio of the calls, pictures of corpses, security video...whenever it all does come out, you will update your priors? No. You won't.

I don't think a crack shot trained assassin or a special forces professional could pull off that kind of kill rate. We only believe this level of weapon handling is possible because of Rambo, The Terminator, etc.

Forgive me if this is too pointed:

YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.

Anyway, how did a guy the FBI was supposedly watching get hold of AR-15 in the first place?

Hey, a good question!

And what happened when he changed magazines? Made phone calls? Collected phones? Pledged allegiance to ISIS? Exchanged fire with police? No one grabbed a bottle or bottles and threw them at him? No one rushes him from behind. They just stand there and let this man shoot them? What? Because they were gay, they weren't able to defend themselves? Then, we get the story of the guy holding the exit door shut. Really? Against a hundred panicked--adrenaline charged--people?

Yep, apparently. People froze or fled. Nobody fought. How often in those situations do people fight back? How many people period are wise enough to understand that fighting back gives you the best odds, and brave enough to actually do it?

But be honest, hoaxmongerer, even if anyone fought back, you would find something just as darkly unbelievable about that, too.

If you've been paying attention since the very beginning you will have noticed key aspects of the narrative changing with certain stories and videos deleted as fast as they're posted. The numerous witnesses censored by the mainstream and social media?

Provide examples.

Then, the trouble identifying people at a nightclub? Have you ever gotten into a nightclub in the last 10 years without ID?

Hey, another good question!