Orlando / Pulse Mass Shooting Thread

[Novem5er]

No harm no foul You did an excellent job imitating Mac; so good that I failed to catch the satire When the whole world looks like Monty Python, it's hard to really know when the Flying Circus is in town!

[Morty]

Has this not been posted yet?


https://youtu.be/VziuBhKF5DY
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He is not alone in his thoughts...


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I don't have a clue what actually went down, but it crossed my mind watching this that a guy freshly holed up after committing a massacre might make claims about there being more than one of him in order to forestall the inevitable final outcome. If the female witness saw more than one shooter, that's another story.

[82_28]

I went to a hella crowded art and loud music show in Seattle last night. I went to see my friend (who is gay). Her exhibit was wonderful and all the art around was great. However door security was poor. I just kept thinking this entire place could get easily mowed down. I would have never thought about it at all were it not for Orlando. I became self conscious because I had a back pack, military grade actually, a black hoodie, A Denver Broncos ball cap and wearing hick ass Carharrts. But nobody would have seen it coming.

Needless to say, I was not of the group there. I'm too old to give a shit but worried I would be a person of interest should the unthinkable happen. Didn't worry too much since I was outside drinking my beer I brought and smoking cigarettes. Just it would have been really easy. There was a back door open too.

[Novem5er]

82_28. I've had those same realizations that something bad could happen easily and almost nobody could stop it. That's why I say the American system is simply to "trust" that you aren't going to be attacked at any given time. Armed citizens are well and good, but unless a significant percentage of Americans are armed all the time, then its still another idea that just makes us feel better without actually solving anything.

See, but that's also what the gun lobby wants, more armed Americans, buying more guns. Seriously, if the conditions of fear get so bad, the only real solution is to arm up . . which only increases firearm access to crazy and angry people, which then amps up the fear, which sells even more firearms. The sick thing is, it works, and it may be the only real solution is to personal security, other than a gestapo type movement to collect every gun in America and unilaterally disarm everyone (which wont happen and I'm not advocating for).

[Nordic]

It's a joke. If the "war on terror" we're real, there would be attacks constantly against the infinite number of soft and utterly unprotected targets everywhere. But the "war on terror" is completely manufactured and doesn't exist except insofar as the USA is a terrorist organization and is waging terror on a great many peoples around the world. We are exactly that which we claim we are fighting. In the case of ISIS it's even more literal than that, as ISIS is a proxy force of the US.

It's not a "ha ha funny" joke but is sure as hell is a goddamn joke.

[identity]

It's a joke. If the "war on terror" we're real, there would be attacks constantly against the infinite number of soft and utterly unprotected targets everywhere. But the "war on terror" is completely manufactured and doesn't exist except insofar as the USA is a terrorist organization and is waging terror on a great many peoples around the world. We are exactly that which we claim we are fighting. In the case of ISIS it's even more literal than that, as ISIS is a proxy force of the US.

It's not a "ha ha funny" joke but is sure as hell is a goddamn joke.

More than a few are surely laughing all the way to the bank!

[82_28]

It's funny, thinking back on all of the "soft target" potential breaches of security that I observed. I was all jesus, that's not good. I just kept to myself.

I think that shit like this does not occur to people when they are schmoozing and all dressed up and have paid little attention to the "narrative". I have a tendency to "overthink" every last damned thing but I was definitely in a soft target. Again, not paranoid in the least. Just going to this "famous club" in Seattle not ramping up their security.

Typically it is a death metal venue. I had a friend whose music and band I hated who played there way back when. Death is disturbingly worshipped everywhere.

http://www.studioseven.us/

Hey! August 8th is the show called Summer Slaughter! Cannibal Corpse headlines!

I gotz no idea what the fuck is happening anymore.

[divideandconquer]

I went to a hella crowded art and loud music show in Seattle last night. I went to see my friend (who is gay). Her exhibit was wonderful and all the art around was great. However door security was poor. I just kept thinking this entire place could get easily mowed down. I would have never thought about it at all were it not for Orlando. I became self conscious because I had a back pack, military grade actually, a black hoodie, A Denver Broncos ball cap and wearing hick ass Carharrts. But nobody would have seen it coming.

Needless to say, I was not of the group there. I'm too old to give a shit but worried I would be a person of interest should the unthinkable happen. Didn't worry too much since I was outside drinking my beer I brought and smoking cigarettes. Just it would have been really easy. There was a back door open too.

I don't think you're alone in that. When I'm in a public place--grocery store, church, library, mall, etc.--where strangers are free to come and go, I sometimes analyze the "security" and it's almost always the same: aside from cameras, there is nothing in place to prevent someone from entering and shooting up the place. That's the way it should be. People should be free to come and go because this "lone gunman shooting up random public venues" scenario is brand new in the scheme of things. What shouldn't be is any thought of spree shooters because it's not natural. Aside from war, where human beings must be trained to kill, humans don't randomly mow other human beings down.

I mean, first, serial killers run amok, and now spree shooters? I think Dave McGowan's book explains this anomaly fairly well. Whatever is happening, whether it's fake, part fake or totally real, these shooters/shooting sprees are the creation of evil or psychopathic minds with access to unlimited technology in order to instill the fear of other human beings. Trust no one! But they are not natural occurrences therefore we should not fear the 99%...only the diabolical .001% who see us as nothing more than lab rats. The only way you're going to get mowed down is if you're somewhere that's been targeted by these diabolicals. The only way you're going to be framed is if you're targeted or solicited by these diabolicals.

[FourthBase]

It's a joke. If the "war on terror" we're real, there would be attacks constantly against the infinite number of soft and utterly unprotected targets everywhere. But the "war on terror" is completely manufactured and doesn't exist except insofar as the USA is a terrorist organization and is waging terror on a great many peoples around the world. We are exactly that which we claim we are fighting. In the case of ISIS it's even more literal than that, as ISIS is a proxy force of the US.

It's not a "ha ha funny" joke but is sure as hell is a goddamn joke.

That doesn't sound like you think the "war on terror" is unreal. It sounds like you think terrorism is unreal. Are you saying that there are no real terror attacks in the world? Are you saying that there have been no real terror attacks in the West?

[Novem5er]

Well, a lot of people think that there are literally slavering hordes of Islamic extremists who do nothing all day but train how to kill Westerners; a literal army of Jihadists pounding on our gates. Many Americans equate Islam with terrorism, as if the billion+ Muslims of the world are nothing more than a death cult intent on attacking the West. I have no doubt that there are real Islamic extremists out there, but I also agree 100% that they are manufactured, as in made. They are made by US bombs, but they are also made by political imams who would use terror as a tool to push their own political agenda. The Wahabists out of Saudi Arabia have been paramount in spreading terrorism around the Islamic world. Saudi Arabia: our greatest Muslim partner in fighting the "War on Terror", yet also greatly responsible for spreading the fundamentalist Islam that inspires that terror. Hmm.

[stickdog99]

It's a joke. If the "war on terror" we're real, there would be attacks constantly against the infinite number of soft and utterly unprotected targets everywhere. But the "war on terror" is completely manufactured and doesn't exist except insofar as the USA is a terrorist organization and is waging terror on a great many peoples around the world. We are exactly that which we claim we are fighting. In the case of ISIS it's even more literal than that, as ISIS is a proxy force of the US.

It's not a "ha ha funny" joke but is sure as hell is a goddamn joke.

That doesn't sound like you think the "war on terror" is unreal. It sounds like you think terrorism is unreal. Are you saying that there are no real terror attacks in the world? Are you saying that there have been no real terror attacks in the West?

Asymmetrical warfare exists. Emmanuel Goldstein is fictional.

[stickdog99]

Well, a lot of people think that there are literally slavering hordes of Islamic extremists who do nothing all day but train how to kill Westerners; a literal army of Jihadists pounding on our gates. Many Americans equate Islam with terrorism, as if the billion+ Muslims of the world are nothing more than a death cult intent on attacking the West. I have no doubt that there are real Islamic extremists out there, but I also agree 100% that they are manufactured, as in made. They are made by US bombs, but they are also made by political imams who would use terror as a tool to push their own political agenda. The Wahabists out of Saudi Arabia have been paramount in spreading terrorism around the Islamic world. Saudi Arabia: our greatest Muslim partner in fighting the "War on Terror", yet also greatly responsible for spreading the fundamentalist Islam that inspires that terror. Hmm.

Islamic fundamentalism is brought to you by the letters B and P.

Yes, I know the "mistakes were made" narrative is also total bullshit. The CIA, the ISI, and Saudi Arabia put the fund in fundamentalism.

[slimmouse]

Under the current political control of most Western Governments are the War Party, Especially the US.
Most of these countries make countless amounts in arms sales, the profits from which invevitably end up in the hands of the usual suspects.
And of course if you dont have enemies, you dont sell weapons. Be they foreign or domestic.

[82_28]

It's a joke. If the "war on terror" we're real, there would be attacks constantly against the infinite number of soft and utterly unprotected targets everywhere. But the "war on terror" is completely manufactured and doesn't exist except insofar as the USA is a terrorist organization and is waging terror on a great many peoples around the world. We are exactly that which we claim we are fighting. In the case of ISIS it's even more literal than that, as ISIS is a proxy force of the US.

It's not a "ha ha funny" joke but is sure as hell is a goddamn joke.

That doesn't sound like you think the "war on terror" is unreal. It sounds like you think terrorism is unreal. Are you saying that there are no real terror attacks in the world? Are you saying that there have been no real terror attacks in the West?

4B, terrorism is terrorism is terrorism. It's the atmosphere, the milieu that counts. Many conflate terrorism with only shit Muslim people partake in which we know is false. It is engrained racism and xenophobia. I would imagine it works much the same no matter who you are or where you live. This country bombarded and occupied an entire other country and it was done in the name of "freedom" so there's that. That's the easy one but the humans and wildlife there were terrorized by "us". Nobody born asks for this. As a two year old child how is one to erase the experienced violence, "legal supposedly" that the US made happen to your family and neighborhood?

Hey, once we get off shift I'll meet you at the Pizza Hut on the illegal base of freedom we go back to.

[stefano]

the "war on terror" is completely manufactured

Here I'm at odds with you, and probably a few others on here. A lot of terror attacks in the West are completely manufactured, but I reckon most in Arab countries are not, and a few in Western countries aren't, either. I think the whole picture is less tidy than of intelligence agencies having assets whose every action they control, and whom they then send out to do something. This Orlando business looks like an example of a messier thing, where the CIA (through his weird dad, and Wackenhut) and the FBI were involved in Mateen's life, and pushing him to do something, but then finally he became a murderer mostly on his own, and chose a target I think the spooks wouldn't have, if they'd had closer control over the thing.

Islamic fundamentalism actually does exist, and has done since well before the US existed. Lots of people literally and firmly believe that the more genocidal verses in the Koran are the revealed and inerrant word of God. I've met some of them. But actually the real problem is the large number of young men in Arab countries and Arab populations in Western countries that have unhappy childhoods of a specific type: absent fathers, run-ins with the cops, a lack of job opportunities, something about their family that makes them feel unlike everyone else. When they get in touch with this absolutist, Year Zero kind of Islam (typically through the intermediation of a kind, older dude who plays a role that was missing for them) they tend to become very enthusiastic followers. In a lot of cases jihadist networks with links to Western intelligence agencies take the next step, but, I believe, in quite a few cases the guys make a plan themselves, to try and murder as many people as possible.