TRUMP is seriously dangerous

[JackRiddler]

Jack, 2 reasons:

He wants to make peace with Russia. So no WW3.

That's a big plus for everyone on the planet. And he's 200% opposite of Hillbama on this.

2, he has promised to veto the TPP.

Coming from him (or from the other one, who's also currently anti-TPP) you have no reason to believe either of these.

[SonicG]

Jack, 2 reasons:

He wants to make peace with Russia. So no WW3.

That's a big plus for everyone on the planet. And he's 200% opposite of Hillbama on this.

2, he has promised to veto the TPP.

Coming from him (or from the other one, who's also currently anti-TPP) you have no reason to believe either of these.

Has he ever talked in depth about these subjects? I doubt Trump even understands why we are currently at "war" with Russia, and that his supporters really want anything other than the Drumpf to "make a great, a fabulous deal" with Russia, whatever that means...And anti-TPP? I'm sure, again, he claims he will just make them give the "US a great deal", he is not opposed, as a seller of cheap trinkets, to free trade with Asia.

I really don't think it has to be a binary argument, because at the end of the day, it is the military-industrial complex which is the neocons, who run the show and are just waiting to "direct" whichever "star" happens to get cast for the next four years...Thinking Drumpf, whose big points are a bigger budget for our poor dilapidated military, and "law and order", will actually go against the MIC and neocons seems quite a fantasy to me...

[Nordic]

So your hatred of Trump is such that even though he's been very clear about it, and Putin has acknowledged it, you would consider a "lesser evil" someone who is unequivocally championing a war with Russia.

And this is the problem with American liberals. They hear what they want to hear and believe what they want to believe, facts be damned.

My prejudices are what's important damnit!

And it's the same with the TPP. He has been very clear about not signing that and he would like to cancel NAFTA.

You do realize this is where a lot of his appeal lies don't you? Do you actually know any working blue collar people? Or do they not inhabit your Starbucks?

[SonicG]

Sorry, which Starbucks? The one on Hai Ba Trung or Pasteur?? I'm very far in space and thought from "American" liberals and was just wondering where all this "clear" talk from Drumpf is...He can't just "cancel" NAFTA and will need to work with the legislative branch on all of it. Unless of course he is just made the King...I'll look up what Drumpf has actually said about Russia then, and judge accordingly...


"Blue collar"? Isn't the avg. income of Drumpfs supporters 70,000 USD/year?

[Nordic]

Sorry, which Starbucks? The one on Hai Ba Trung or Pasteur?? I'm very far in space and thought from "American" liberals and was just wondering where all this "clear" talk from Drumpf is...He can't just "cancel" NAFTA and will need to work with the legislative branch on all of it. Unless of course he is just made the King...I'll look up what Drumpf has actually said about Russia then, and judge accordingly...


"Blue collar"? Isn't the avg. income of Drumpfs supporters 70,000 USD/year?

Almost all the Trump supporters I know are blue collar and non-college educated. Some make more than 70k a year, some don't. Most are in unions.

But yeah look it up. My comments were more directed at JR than you. And I totally understand that getting rid of NAFTA is no easy thing, we might be tuck with it, but he's been very clear bout that and the TPP.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the guy, but my point is that he is not the greater evil if you compare him to Hillary.

He's an old school isolationist and might even be (unknowingly I'm sure) an adherent of the American School of Economics, which is what created the massive US economy and its middle class. Nixon began dismantling it, and Reagan pretty much destroyed it. Clinton certainly helped kill it off for good.

[SonicG]

I don't mean to sound antagonistic, btw Nordic, I am truly interested in different perspectives on what is going on with Russia...I do live in Vietnam and partially in Japan. My wife flies back forth almost every month and I go back to Japan about twice a year. Through Taiwan. Right over the sea with a heavily contended name, so my interest in possible conflict in this area is extremely high. Of course, China is a much bigger player in that regard and I have only see full-on antagonism from Drumpf regarding that "Middle Nation"...TPP is certainly also important in that regard, and it is somewhat true, that a failure to sign the TPP will lessen US power in the region, I believe, but he will also have to severely damage things like GATT and the other myriad of supra-national laws and regulations to save the US from becoming (being?) a "slave colony of the multinational corporate universe. "
Also, again, I have to emphasize, that it doesn't have to be a binary situation, does it? I won't, don't, have no reason to vote and if I did, it would be in Cali. or as a citizen abroad where Hillary is the "sane" choice, but agreed, in a world gone mad...

[SonicG]

He's an old school isolationist and might even be (unknowingly I'm sure) an adherent of the American School of Economics, which is what created the massive US economy and its middle class. Nixon began dismantling it, and Reagan pretty much destroyed it. Clinton certainly helped kill it off for good.

Right. I would just argue that those presidents merely oversaw the dismantling, because it has been happening everywhere and is truly a global phenom. And from my perspective in the so-called developing world, they are merely achieving growth with the most minimally sized middle-class as possible...

[Nordic]

You don't sound at all antagonistic. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm pretty uninformed about China and Southeast Asia so I can't speak intelligently on any of it. Nor am I familiar with Trump's views on it.

It does seem that the US is going out of its way to antagonize China somewhat but it doesn't seem to be in an alarming, hair-on-fire, OH SHIT way like they are doing with Russia. If it weren't for Putins extremely level head and superior chess skills we'd already be in a hot war with them. 100% instigated by us.

[Nordic]

Well there's a reason it went global and that is because the major corporations leading the way are global and are allowed to do pretty much whatever the hell they want globally.

I saw an incredible article a few years ago and I wish I'd bookmarked it. I'd like to find it again. It basically described the current economy as being similar to past boons. Say, when Colonialism began and entire nations were exploited for their natural resources (The Americas, Africa). The current thing we are mining and extracting on a massive scale, benefitting only the owners of production, is cheap human labor. It's the last frontier of global economic exploitation until we find a new one. Like the moon. Or the ocean floor.

[SonicG]

You don't sound at all antagonistic. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm pretty uninformed about China and Southeast Asia so I can't speak intelligently on any of it. Nor am I familiar with Trump's views on it.

It does seem that the US is going out of its way to antagonize China somewhat but it doesn't seem to be in an alarming, hair-on-fire, OH SHIT way like they are doing with Russia. If it weren't for Putins extremely level head and superior chess skills we'd already be in a hot war with them. 100% instigated by us.

Good! I certainly agree. Any embargo is an act of war, no doubt, and it is ironic that the war on Cuba finally ends as one on Russia starts up again...
The situation with China is more on the level of brinksmanship now but pieces are being put in place. I am putting articles regarding the area in the thread about Japan waging war for now, such as the lifting of the arms embargo on Vietnam that was the main purpose of Obama's trip here, or was it drinking beer and eating bun cha with Bourdain?? So China courts Cambodia and the new Philipines president pivots away from the US regarding China...I'll post in the referenced thread later but there is stuff like this happening now:

Cambodia has blocked any reference to a U.N.-backed court’s ruling against Beijing’s claims to the South China Sea in an Asean statement and is pushing to remove a previously routine phrase expressing concern about the sea’s “militarization,” according to reports.

A spokesman for Cambodia’s government, which China last week promised more than half a billion dollars in aid, said it did not want to interfere in a foreign dispute over sovereignty, but an observer said Cambodia should simply “butt out” in that case.
https://www.cambodiadaily.com/news/camb ... ea-115834/

[Blue]

Yet Trump wants to resuscitate Keystone XL. One of the few greener things Obama did was to cancel that insane project. Yeah, let's run a leaky pipe full of carcinogenic tar sands planet-killing sludge over the largest watershed in the United States. What could possibly go wrong?

Donald Trump's vow to resuscitate the Keystone XL oil pipeline in exchange for a share of its profits has a glaring problem: It risks running afoul of laws against government takings of private property. And even supporters of the project warn that it risks hurting relations with Canada, the nation's No. 1 oil supplier.

The presumptive Republican nominee has repeatedly pledged to revive the Canada-to-Texas pipeline, a long-standing cause for Republicans in Congress, but Trump has brought a twist. He wants U.S. taxpayers to get a slice of the project's revenue.

"I want it built, but I want a piece of the profits," Trump said May 26 before delivering an energy speech to an oil-industry audience in North Dakota. "That's how we're going to make our country rich again."

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/donald-trump-keystone-canada-energy-224204

[seemslikeadream]

so everybody understands what just happened here....nothing left to say ....end of story


first time ever the secret service has been asked to investigate a person running for president for threatening another candidate with assassination

Trump: 'Second Amendment people' could deal with Clinton

Wilmington, North Carolina (CNN)Donald Trump said Tuesday that if Hillary Clinton gets to pick Supreme Court justices, there's "nothing you can do, folks ... although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is."

Trump's ambiguous comments alarmed some political observers as to whether he was threatening her life or calling for increased political activity.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/politics/ ... amendment/

Trending on Google+:Donald Trump Suggests Shooting Hillary Clinton, Her Supreme Court Picks, Or BothHuffington Post

"Ambiguous", my ass. Look at the audience reaction. They're laughing at a joke - about assassinating someone running for President - which is a felony.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xz8G3IlccUM

Trump threatens Sec. Clinton with Gun Nuts, imitates Tinpot 3rd World Regimes
By Juan Cole | Aug. 10, 2016 |

By Juan Cole | (Informed Comment) | – –
Donald Trump said Tuesday there was nothing that his supporters could do if Hillary Clinton won and got “to pick her judges.” Then he “thought” a moment and amended his pessimism: “Though the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don’t know.”
Former CIA director Michael Hayden suggested that the remark, which implied that an NRA member should assassinate Sec. Clinton, was a criminal offense and that the Department of Justice should look into it: “if anybody else had said this, they’d be out in the parking lot in a police wagon being questioned by the Secret Service.”
My own guess is that Trump is trolling the Obama Department of Justice and hoping to be harassed by the DoJ so that he can claim persecution and martyrdom in front of the public.
Otherwise, some people have gotten in trouble with the law for doing to Trump what he just did to Hillary.
An Egyptian student studying in the US was forced to leave the country rather than face formal deportation after he posted threats to Trump on Facebook.
Richard Deville Jr., 26, of Clarksville, Indiana was arrested on May 12 and charged with felony intimidation after he allegedly put up a video on social media menacing Donald Trump and members of his family. Keith Henderson, the Floyd County Prosecutor, said of the video, where the suspect was sporting loaded guns:
“That’s not political speech, it’s not free speech, that’s criminal speech because he’s threatening someone’s life.”
So maybe Mr. Henderson should express himself equally vehemently about Trump himself.
And, who talks and acts like this?
Moise Katumbi, an opposition politician, was arrested this spring for hiring mercenaries and threatening state security in the DR Congo. His critics say he was intent on making a coup.
Trump is literally acting like a tinpot dictator already!

http://www.juancole.com/2016/08/imitati ... atens.html



NRA spends $3 million on new anti-Clinton ad
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/politics/ ... tion-2016/

[seemslikeadream]

Donald Trump to Address Extremist Anti-LGBT Summit in Orlando
Guests include a man who believes schools force children to become gay.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/t ... ando-event


Former Cult Member Explains How Donald Trump and His Followers Are Just Like a Cult
“The fear and the anger had been demagogued in such a way that their faces were set like flint and it’s like they have blinders on.”
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/d ... s-are-cult

[Agent Orange Cooper]

Yet Trump wants to resuscitate Keystone XL. One of the few greener things Obama did was to cancel that insane project

He also said he's a "state's rights" guy and that if a city or township or state wanted to ban fracking (for example), that he would be fine with it. So if the states band together stop KXL, problem solved (if you believe him).

I really don't think it has to be a binary argument, because at the end of the day, it is the military-industrial complex which is the neocons, who run the show and are just waiting to "direct" whichever "star" happens to get cast for the next four years...Thinking Drumpf, whose big points are a bigger budget for our poor dilapidated military, and "law and order", will actually go against the MIC and neocons seems quite a fantasy to me..

Did you see the story earlier that basically every single major neocon MIC guy has come out openly warning the nation that Trump would be "dangerous to national security?" It doesn't seem like they are waiting to direct him, it seems they are actively campaigning against him! I think early on they might have felt that he would play ball or could be 'made sensible,' but now they seem to feel otherwise.

[kool maudit]

The whole 'yeah but he's lying argument' doesn't really... trump (heh) the 'comparatively better foreign policy' one.

There are two major-party candidates in an essentially two-party system. One says he wants better relations with Russia and condemns the Iraq war, and one says she wants to antagonise Russia and has supported Iraq-like wars since Kosovo without exception.

Now, the first guy is a blowhard and a weirdo and a liar and all that, and there is a huge chance he might not come through on the two all-important reversal-of-the-neocon-era platforms... but his opponent definitely won't. She has been on the opposite side of each for decades.

For Americans, it's fair to say 'yeah, well he also has a lot of domestic policies that are shit and hers are better' and make the 'foreign policy is only one part of it' argument... but on the straight anti-neocon foreign policy angle, he's still better than she is.