Are you broke?

[Wombaticus Rex]

Well maybe it isnt a joke, maybe its just a god damn fuckn accurate analogy.

It's not, man. On any level.

I also appreciate the insinuation that if I disagree with you, it's because my mind is in shackles of political correctness.

I get the impression you're not bothering to defend it because you know it's not defensible.

[brekin]

Somebody recently made an interesting joke, if you can ignore supposedly racist joke, that when the african americans were transported to the USA courtesy of sick people, not that long ago, they look lucky by todays standards, since at least they got free transport, accommodation and were guaranteed work, which in all absolute honesty is far better than the plight of many of todays forced migration.

"Free" is a curious choice of words when you're talking about slavery, bud.

Are you sure that's a joke?

Well maybe it isnt a joke, maybe its just a god damn fuckn accurate analogy.
Feel free to discuss further. Assuming youre free to do that.

Speak plainly. Is it a joke (in extremely poor taste) or just a god damn fuckn accurate analogy?

[slimmouse]

Well maybe it isnt a joke, maybe its just a god damn fuckn accurate analogy.

It's not, man. On any level.

I also appreciate the insinuation that if I disagree with you, it's because my mind is in shackles of political correctness.

OK, so what youre trying to tell me is that the vast majority of humanity doesnt exist on what is essentially the great human plantation, growing exponentially - be you black white brown red yellow - any color of human being you care to depict.

Because if thats what youre saying, then lets respectfully disagree?

History can apparently teach the 99.99999 % nothing. Especially when we understand that the remainder of humanity as we understand it are spreading the lies

[Wombaticus Rex]

OK, so what youre trying to tell me is that the vast majority of humanity doesnt exist on what is essentially the great human plantation, growing exponentially - be you black white brown red yellow - any color of human being you care to depict.

Because if thats what youre saying, then lets respectfully disagree?

I like your variation on the Motte and Bailey technique -- rather than retreat to a scaled back version of your original argument, you've completely swapped out what you originally said, and asked me if I deny that.

"African Americans got lucky when they were enslaved" becomes Gnostic Economics, even for pink & purple people, upon scrutiny. Which am I to respectfully disagree with? Your original point or this new subject of conversation?

[slimmouse]

OK, so what youre trying to tell me is that the vast majority of humanity doesnt exist on what is essentially the great human plantation, growing exponentially - be you black white brown red yellow - any color of human being you care to depict.

Because if thats what youre saying, then lets respectfully disagree?

I like your variation on the Motte and Bailey technique -- rather than retreat to a scaled back version of your original argument, you've completely swapped out what you originally said, and asked me if I deny that.

"African Americans got lucky when they were enslaved" becomes Gnostic Economics, even for pink & purple people, upon scrutiny. Which am I to respectfully disagree with? Your original point or this new subject of conversation?

Probably because it was a racist joke that actually has more foundation in reality if you look at the world today within the context of humanity as a species, be they black or WHITE

The joke is actually on the teller.

Which means that the joke is on me...........oh and you WR

[Harvey]

Would your politics be different if you weren't broke all the time?

Yes, but perhaps not in a predictable way.

Would your politics be different if you discovered the world had changed around you? I asked myself the same question. I don't have an answer. At what point does politics cease to have meaning? And what would that mean? (laughs)

[Luther Blissett]

Having more money means having more free time to organize. It certainly didn't make me stop caring about fellow humans.

[Elihu]

relative states of brokeness are beside the point. the whole thing is tending to subsistence. ever noticed everything one does is connected to the government(s) is connected to your money? paying or receiving or both simultaneously? or more truly, the permission slips you can have in exchange for the work you do or the lifestyle one is permitted in exchange for their time. if one is receiving, have you ever wondered, why are they so stingy? why don't they give a little more? it is not a two way street, it's three way. there's a hole in the bucket. congress people who are really bankruptcy trustees do not write tax laws on an egalitarian basis as we have been brought up to believe. in fact i don't think they have ever written any of them, just approved them. their true nature is ubiquitous authority everywhere all the time. and compliance. the mercantile nature is ancient Roman. the preident is a military leader. everyone calls them commander in chief. and they likewise call themselves that. the corporation is set up to make war everywhere all the time. seems obvious now doesn't it? that's why serfs (us) have d's and r's, left and right, etc. one general could do this and it would help (ie, give more permission slips to) those. and another general could do that and it would help (ie, give more permission slips to) the others. the present of this is misery and the end of it is tragedy. with the stockholders taking the skim, the war machine cannot be in two places for the serfs (us) at the same time. think of it as maximum wage rather than minimum. if the serfs refused to pay en masse tomorrow civilization would dissolve into chaos. nice set of choices you got there. why should we hate each other over these fools?

[Luther Blissett]

Universal basic income now!

[Elihu]

Universal basic income now!

that's the other thing. in a war economy, the money permission slips only come about as war business is prosecuted. unicorn universal basic income can't be generated or handed out to be spent without the payor and payee participating in war activities as well. so fail. unless you just know all this and say i got mine and i'm cool with it all. nice benefactor.

[Luther Blissett]

I don't think that universal basic income is strictly predicated on a war economy. Scarcity is a myth and if it comes about a byproduct of automation, increased productivity, and surplus profit, it will only point to the inherent fallacies of capitalism and of debt itself.

Capitalists could wake up and realize that they don't want to exploit, hurt or kill other humans anymore one day.

[Elihu]

Scarcity is a myth

so you admit we've been getting screwed? why would you look to the crook for a helping hand? notice how eager to oblige.

if it comes about a byproduct of automation, increased productivity,

the skim. you're close.

[Luther Blissett]

Scarcity is a myth

so you admit we've been getting screwed? why would you look to the crook for a helping hand? notice how eager to oblige.

if it comes about a byproduct of automation, increased productivity,

the skim. you're close.

Oh, by "universal basic income" I think people usually mean one created by the people, not the state, don't they? Unless they are liberals or neoliberals.

[brekin]

One solace is that no matter how bad things get, we can all still afford to use capital letters.

[stefano]

I don't think that universal basic income is strictly predicated on a war economy. Scarcity is a myth and if it comes about a byproduct of automation, increased productivity, and surplus profit, it will only point to the inherent fallacies of capitalism and of debt itself.

Scarcity isn't really a myth, though. I mean there's enough to go around to meet everyone's needs, but not to meet everyone's wants. Economics is about unlimited wants and limited (even if abundant) means. And that sense of needing a bit more, of being almost broke, goes all the way up. You can find plenty of 'I lived it' kind of stories from people who objectively have too much and who seem to think they're on some kind of shoestring budget. Here's a story about bankers who don't think they can get by on under £1m a year; here's one about a survey that found that 94% of Americans pulling over $100,000 a year consider themselves 'middle class'.

Some people don't have that nervousness about money, but that's mostly the result of hard work at personal development, unrelated to how much or little they earn or have. And the advertisers are throwing everything they have at us to make sure our needs are never, ever satisfied.

Capitalists could wake up and realize that they don't want to exploit, hurt or kill other humans anymore one day.

They don't, though. The people wanting to hurt or kill either suffer from individual-level aberrations (of which many result from living in the world as it is now), or else they're psychos who understand that there's always lucrative work for someone who'll kill for money. As for exploitation, most capitalists consider providing work, no matter how shitty, as a noble contribution to the common weal. Capitalists don't want to hurt people - they want to make more money.

The problem is acquisitiveness at the level of the person, and trying to paint ourselves as the noble and hard-done-by us opposed to a satanic, inhuman them obscures this issue.