Proof Wayne Madsen is a SPOOK! time to get rigorous?

by **hmm** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:21 am

how do i know this? because it is all over the web and he makes no attempt to hide that fact! i want to know why this guy has any credibility anywhere,let alone on this board. this from his website: <a href="http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/biographies.htm">www.waynemadsenreport.com...aphies.htm</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Madsen is a former U.S. Naval officer who was assigned to the National Security Agency during the Reagan administration. He also has some twenty years experience in computer security and data privacy. He has also worked for the Naval Data Automation Command, Department of State, RCA Corporation, and Computer Sciences Corporation.<hr></blockquote> a little bit about CSC: <a href="http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11124">www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=11124</a>

by **emad** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:38 am

into the ECHELON military computer for trying to sell state secrets to the Chinese. The UK security/intelligence services still have his official file from the Metropolitan Police. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=emad@rigorousintuition>emad</A> at: 11/20/05 10:32 am

by **proldic** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:29 pm

(This message was left blank) Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=proldic@rigorousintuition>proldic</A> at: 11/19/05 10:20 am

by **hmm** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 1:33 pm

white knights dont appear out of black-hat agencies often.. what angers me most about madsen's articles is that they always appear like clockwork just when the USA needs a distraction from some new scandal.He then discusses this scandal by ignoring all interesting leads,presents no new facts and then goes off on impossible tangents with documented "proof" that never seems to pan out. if anyone needs a concrete example of this one could check out Democratic Underground and see how much energy was wasted there after the 2004 elections trying to follow up Madsen's wild allegations. Madsen for al his "exposing" of bush and bin laden and the inner workings of the US intelligence services is still in the "19 arabs with boxcutters" camp. <a href="http://www.networkworld.com/research/2001/1126featside4.html">www.networkworld.com/rese...side4.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"Great claims are part of the myth behind bin Laden," Madsen says. "Remember that the tools they used to conduct the Sept. 11 operation were Stone-Age tools - knives, wire transfers, written messages on pieces of paper. . . . The one reason they were successful in pulling this off is that they didn't use a lot of technology."<hr></blockquote>

by **dbeach** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:30 pm

MAYBE BUT worse than him is woodward who has done ZERO since the great all the presidents men movie which was jollywood fluff food for the masses Madsen has connections who feed him what they want.. Is he working to help 'we the people' get at the Truth ?? CUZ the MM and Alternate Media is loaded with operation mockinbirdss who have perpetuated this busheivik fascists regime

by **slimmouse** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:16 pm

Al Qaeda – The Database Wayne Madsen Report – November 18, 2005 Shortly before his untimely death, former British Foreign Secretary Robin Cook told the House of Commons that "Al Qaeda" is not really a terrorist group but a database of international mujaheddin and arms smugglers used by the CIA and Saudis to funnel guerrillas, arms, and money into Soviet-occupied Afghanistan. Courtesy of World Affairs, a journal based in New Delhi, WMR can bring you an important excerpt from an Apr.-Jun. 2004 article by Pierre-Henry Bunel, a former agent for French military intelligence. "I first heard about Al-Qaida while I was attending the Command and Staff course in Jordan. I was a French officer at that time and the French Armed Forces had close contacts and cooperation with Jordan . . . "Two of my Jordanian colleagues were experts in computers. They were air defense officers. Using computer science slang, they introduced a series of jokes about students' punishment. "For example, when one of us was late at the bus stop to leave the Staff College, the two officers used to tell us: 'You'll be noted in 'Q eidat il-Maaloomaat' which meant 'You'll be logged in the information database.' Meaning 'You will receive a warning . . .' If the case was more severe, they would used to talk about 'Q eidat i-Taaleemaat.' Meaning 'the decision database.' It meant 'you will be punished.' For the worst cases they used to speak of logging in 'Al Qaida.' "In the early 1980s the Islamic Bank for Development, which is located in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, like the Permanent Secretariat of the Islamic Conference Organization, bought a new computerized system to cope with its accounting and communication requirements. At the time the system was more sophisticated than necessary for their actual needs. "It was decided to use a part of the system's memory to host the Islamic Conference's database. It was possible for the countries attending to access the database by telephone: an Intranet, in modern language. The governments of the member-countries as well as some of their embassies in the world were connected to that network. "[According to a Pakistani major] the database was divided into two parts, the information file where the participants in the meetings could pick up and send information they needed, and the decision file where the decisions made during the previous sessions were recorded and stored. In Arabic, the files were called, 'Q eidat il-Maaloomaat' and 'Q eidat i-Taaleemaat.' Those two files were kept in one file called in Arabic 'Q eidat ilmu'ti'aat' which is the exact translation of the English word database. But the Arabs commonly used the short word Al Qaida which is the Arabic word for "base." The military air base of Riyadh, Saudi Arabia is called 'q eidat 'riyadh al 'askariya.' Q eida means "a base" and "Al Qaida" means "the base." "In the mid-1980s, Al Qaida was a database located in computer and dedicated to the communications of the Islamic Conference's secretariat. "In the early 1990s, I was a military intelligence officer in the Headquarters of the French Rapid Action Force. Because of my skills in Arabic my job was also to translate a lot of faxes and letters seized or intercepted by our intelligence services . . . We often got intercepted material sent by Islamic networks operating from the UK or from Belgium. "These documents contained directions sent to Islamic armed groups in Algeria or in France. The messages quoted the sources of statements to be exploited in the redaction of the tracts or leaflets, or to be introduced in video or tapes to be sent to the media. The most commonly quoted sources were the United Nations, the non-aligned countries, the UNHCR and . . . Al Qaida. "Al Qaida remained the data base of the Islamic Conference. Not all member countries of the Islamic Conference are 'rogue states' and many Islamic groups could pick up information from the databases. It was but natural for Osama Bin Laden to be connected to this network. He is a member of an important family in the banking and business world. "Because of the presence of 'rogue states,' it became easy for terrorist groups to use the email of the database. Hence, the email of Al Qaida was used, with some interface system, providing secrecy, for the families of the mujaheddin to keep links with their children undergoing training in Afghanistan, or in Libya or in the Beqaa valley, Lebanon. Or in action anywhere in the battlefields where the extremists sponsored by all the 'rogue states' used to fight. And the 'rogue states' included Saudi Arabia. When Osama bin Laden was an American agent in Afghanistan, the Al Qaida Intranet was a good communication system through coded or covert messages. Al Qaida was neither a terrorist group nor Osama bin Laden's personal property . . . The terrorist actions in Turkey in 2003 were carried out by Turks and the motives were local and not international, unified, or joint. These crimes put the Turkish government in a difficult position vis-a-vis the British and the Israelis. But the attacks certainly intended to 'punish' Prime Minister Erdogan for being a 'toot tepid' Islamic politician. " . . . In the Third World the general opinion is that the countries using weapons of mass destruction for economic purposes in the service of imperialism are in fact 'rogue states," specially the US and other NATO countries. " Some Islamic economic lobbies are conducting a war against the 'liberal" economic lobbies. They use local terrorist groups claiming to act on behalf of Al Qaida. On the other hand, national armies invade independent countries under the aegis of the UN Security Council and carry out pre-emptive wars. And the real sponsors of these wars are not governments but the lobbies concealed behind them. "The truth is, there is no Islamic army or terrorist group called Al Qaida. And any informed intelligence officer knows this. But there is a propaganda campaign to make the public believe in the presence of an identified entity representing the 'devil' only in order to drive the 'TV watcher' to accept a unified international leadership for a war against terrorism. The country behind this propaganda is the US and the lobbyists for the US war on terrorism are only interested in making money." (Our emphasis, Ed.) In yet another example of what happens to those who challenge the system, in December 2001, Maj. Pierre-Henri Bunel was convicted by a secret French military court of passing classified documents that identified potential NATO bombing targets in Serbia to a Serbian agent during the Kosovo war in 1998. Bunel's case was transferred from a civilian court to keep the details of the case classified. Bunel's character witnesses and psychologists notwithstanding, the system "got him" for telling the truth about Al Qaeda and who has actually been behind the terrorist attacks commonly blamed on that group. It is noteworthy that that Yugoslav government, the government with whom Bunel was asserted by the French government to have shared information, claimed that Albanian and Bosnian guerrillas in the Balkans were being backed by elements of "Al Qaeda." We now know that these guerrillas were being backed by money provided by the Bosnian Defense Fund, an entity established as a special fund at Bush-influenced Riggs Bank and directed by Richard Perle and Douglas Feith.  Taken from yet ANOTHER Disinfo source <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"> ; <a href="http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=3836">www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/...sp?ID=3836</a> I think that Jeff once said ( apologies if you didnt my good host ) that its the nature of that side of the fence on which we all on here more or less collectively sit, that paranoia is rife. But anyone trying to suggest that any of the above is disinfo, is to my mind completely wrong.

by **dbeach** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:09 pm

SLIM MY SPIN the freaks feed us much truths in their propaganda so assured of their ultimate enslavemnet of the masses that they become arrogant and dismissive of us as a resistance force ..their crimes get sloppy BUT they also deliberatley leave clues cuz they control the courts Libby is arrested and bush may pardon him BUT my pt is the elites think they can buy and muscle theri way out of any crime possible and they have done it tus far. Thye have a winning script.. They murder our Heroes/Heroines like JFK or King or Ghandi or Mae Brussels CUZ nobody is allowed to disrupt their agenda which is of course to loot the planet and massmurder most of us.. Madsen AJ Greg S. Rense put out combinations of info mixed with disinfo We are still getting truths and waking up others..by reading and searching for them in the disinformation age. "We want the world and we want it now NOW"

by **Dreams End** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:20 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>what angers me most about madsen's articles is that they always appear like clockwork just when the USA needs a distraction from some new scandal.He then discusses this scandal by ignoring all interesting leads,presents no new facts and then goes off on impossible tangents with documented "proof" that never seems to pan out. <hr></blockquote> GREAT summary of Madsen. And slimmouse, being disinfo doesn't mean EVERY article is fake. (although skonick seems to prefer this approach.) To do it right, you would want lots of real articles and also lots of articles appealing to whatever segment you are targeting. So I think Michael Rivero, for example, is posting a lot more "leftist" material now. Madsen lost me when back before the last election he not only said there was a military coup brewing but that leftists should SUPPORT IT. It was his "Hey, the Seven Days in May" (great movie) scenario doesn't HAVE to be that bad!!!" The coup was to be triggered by electoral malfeasance. Ummm...so where's the coup? More importantly, how did an article advocating LEFT support of a military coup get posted on COUNTERPUNCH? The bolded paragraph is why I said my final fuck you to Cockburn and Counterpunch. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>A Material Breach of the Constitution Bush's War on the Soul of America by WAYNE MADSEN It is now time for the U.S. military to act against a dangerous regime that is in material breach of one of the most important legal instruments in the world--the U.S. Constitution. And it is not Sadaam Hussein, Kim Jong Il, or Fidel Castro who threaten the Constitution. George Bush, Dick Cheney, and every Cabinet member swore an oath to protect and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. But what happens when the domestic threat is from the very people who swore to defend the Constitution? The U.S. military, including a large number of Reserves and National Guard are being deployed to the desert sands of Kuwait, Qatar, Jordan and other countries. Their absence from the United States permits the Bush regime to seize more and more constitutional rights of the American people without the possibility of substantial resistance. The only people who are currently defenseless in the world today are the American people--they are vulnerable to the machinations of their own illegal regime. That leaves only law enforcement as our only real defense. And while most police--Federal, state, and local--seem to be in lockstep with Bush's march towards totalitarianism in the United States, there are now even rumblings from these ranks. Said one local law enforcement officer in the Washington, DC area, "our military reserve personnel are being sent to the Middle East and our ability as first responders is weakened." And this from one Federal law enforcement official, "I can tell you that Bush is heartless."  Hollywood has long pondered, through movies like Seven Days in May, what might happen to America if an extra-constitutional situation were to arise. While most of these cinematic presentations focused on power-hungry generals seizing control from democratically-elected presidents, no one in Hollywood ever really considered the possibility of generals imbued with democratic values ousting a President who was bent on seizing unconstitutional powers. However, this is exactly the nightmarish scenario that is beginning to arise in Washington. After steamrolling through the U.S. Congress the USA PATRIOT Act at a time when the legislative branch was under an obvious home-grown anthrax attack, the Bush regime is now preparing to drop the other jack boot--the Domestic Security Enhancement Act of 2003 or as it has been dubbed -- USA Patriot Act II. This law would effectively abrogate many of the protections granted by the Bill of Rights and virtually gut the Privacy and Freedom of Information Acts. It is yet another step towards the creation of Bush's maniacal American Empire--one that foresees a final decisive battle between the forces of unbridle corporatism and fundamentalist Judeo-Christianity on one side and Islam, European liberal humanism, social democracy, and pacifism on the other. Like Roman Caesars Augustus, Tiberius, Caligula, and Claudius, and Napoleon Bonaparte, Adolf Hitler, and Benito Mussolini before him, Bush's fanaticism threatens to plunge the world into endless war and bring to an ignoble close America's 227-year democratic run. It is perhaps telling that as the Bush regime further curtails the public's right to know, patriots within the U.S. law enforcement establishment chose to leak the "Confidential-Not for Distribution" draft of the "USA Patriot II" Act. Just as Pentagon officials are leaking information on Donald Rumsfeld's inhuman plans to cremate the remains of U.S. troops killed by Iraqi chemical or biological weapons, there are increasing signs that the U.S. government bureaucracy is becoming increasingly restless with the Bush clique. The General Accounting Office, the congressional watchdog agency, fresh from being trounced in its efforts to obtain Dick Cheney's notes on his secretive Energy Task Force, is now conducting an audit of Federal agency compliance with the Privacy and Freedom of Information Acts. This is in response not to Congress, which could not care less about either law, but from government bureaucrats who are apparently blowing the whistle on abuses. It may not result in much of anything, but indicates that there may be a simmering reaction to Bush from one of the most static layers in government--the career civil service. The career military has just about had it with Rumsfeld's constant paranoia about leaks and his aggressiveness in conducting the type of sweeping investigations of his officer corps and non-commissioned officer ranks that are reminiscent of Richard Nixon's Plumbers Unit. Anyone who closely examines Patriot II will realize that the document represents the same sort of power grab by Hitler after the Reichstag Fire of 1933. Using the pretext that the Reichstag was burned down by Communists (when, in fact, it was engineered by Nazis), Hitler pushed through the "Decree by the Reich President for the Defense of People and State." The Reichstag Fire Decree, intended only as a "temporary" measure, permitted Hitler and his regime to jail political opponents at will, bypass the judicial system, and eventually force millions of people into concentration camps. Like the Reichstag Fire Decree, there is nothing really temporary with either Patriot I or II. With a virtual rubber stamp legislature, Bush can simply extend the so-called "sunset" provisions of the first act and any that may appear in the second. It is also important to point out that much of what is contained in Patriot II is not aimed at effectively defending the United States against terrorists, but at curtailing the freedoms of the American people. In fact, Bush has all but ignored Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden, choosing instead to pathologically focus on Saddam Hussein. Attorney General John Ashcroft would be armed with increased powers to curtail the public's access to government information, including information on environmental hazards and other public safety information shared by corporations with the Federal government. And, while the FBI would be able to routinely and without sufficient court order browse the financial records of American citizens, Cabinet and sub-cabinet officers, members of Congress, and Supreme Court Justices could hide from the Internal Revenue Service any fringe benefits deemed to be in the category of "protective security." In a direct violation of the Tenth Amendment, which states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people," Ashcroft and the FBI will also be able to terminate state laws prohibiting local police from gathering information about people and organizations. These laws were enacted in reaction to past abuses by so-called police "Red Squads" that later were reorganized to keep track of civil rights and anti-war groups. Further violating the letter and spirit of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878, the Pentagon would be permitted to conduct DNA dragnets and collect the DNA of "certain classes of aliens including those engaged in activity that endangers national security." Certainly, if DNA technology were available to Hitler, such a decree would have enabled the Gestapo to collect the DNA of Jews, the Roma people, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Africans--all of whom were declared aliens and not Germans under Hitler's racial purification laws. Elements of racial purification are also contained in Patriot II. The Bush regime would be empowered to take away the citizenship of Americans involved with a "foreign terrorist organization." The Secretary of State is currently authorized the designate, as his whim, what constitutes a "foreign terrorist" organization. It is not just Arab or Muslim-Americans who could lose their citizenship in this respect. In their zeal to ethnically-cleanse America, the Bush regime could eventually withdraw citizenship from Latinos involved with the Colombian FARC or Mexican Zapatistas, Tamil-Americans, Basque-Americans, Irish-Americans, or any American ethnic group that begins to actively oppose, in concert with revolutionary or secessionist movements, America's grand imperial designs in their native lands. The U.S. government would also be empowered to conduct surveillance of groups active in the United States that are deemed "terrorist" by foreign governments. This would effectively end America's role as a safe haven for pro-democracy organizations fighting repressive regimes that join Bush's coalition for world domination. By not adequately defining what constitutes "material support" for designated terrorist organizations, the Bush regime is coming ominously close to declaring thought crimes to be a national security offense. A web site, which merely expresses support for some group or cause opposed by the Bush cabal, could be shut down and its operators jailed if someone decides it is a threat. Supported by a sycophantic media, the Bush regime is trying to convince the world that its first war of many is just. But even conservatives like Robert Novak are questioning Bush's Imperial Romanesque plans. In a February 10 column, Novak writes that Bush "projects an American imperium that evokes apprehension among some conservative supporters of President Bush." Similarly, members of the U.S. intelligence community are pointing to an October 7, 2002 letter from the CIA to the Senate Intelligence Committee. The CIA took issue with the notion that Saddam would engage in a first use of weapons of mass destruction or give them to terrorists like Al Qaeda. The CIA has also dismissed links between Saddam and Al Qaeda, a stance supported by the agency's British counterpart, MI-6. As evidence of just how far out of step the Bush administration is with the rest of the world, consider the statements of America's traditional allies. Responding to Rumsfeld's Hermann Goering-like bellicosity, Belgian Foreign Minister Louis Michel said, "When one has to take a slap in the face such as the insulting remarks . . . by Mr. Rumsfeld, who comes to teach a thing or two to 'old Europe', the Europe of democratic values, humanist Europe, the Europe of the Age of Enlightenment, personally I find that this hurts." The press aide to Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien called Bush a moron. The former German Justice Minister likened Bush to Hitler. Bush insulted his former friend, Mexico's President Vicente Fox, by walking away from a press conference before the translator had finished translating to English Fox's answer to a question. Bush was miffed that Mexico was not supporting Bush in the UN Security Council. He ratchets up North Korea's Kim Jong Il and risks a potential nuclear war by telling a reporter that he "hates" Kim because he starves his own people. Bush refers to Russian President Vladimir Putin as "Pooty Poot" and then expects Russia's support for his Iraq and North Korea adventures--support he unsurprisingly fails to get. Bush calls the Pakistanis "Pakis" and Greek "Grecians." He doesn't know the difference between two incoming NATO members -- Slovenia and Slovakia. Bush proudly stands on a trash heap of treaties he has rejected either in word or by spirit--Kyoto, Madrid and Oslo, International Criminal Court, Anti-Ballistic Missile, Nuclear Test-Ban, the Biological and Toxin Warfare Convention (BTWC), Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW), Ottawa Convention on Land Mines, and, more recently, the UN Charter and NATO. Bush's cult-like right-wing supporters begin calling for sanctions against France and Germany. Fine. Thanks to Bush's rants, we already have 100,000 North Korean artillery shells trained on 37,000 US troops and millions of South Koreans. But when the pseudo-moderate Colin Powell calls France and Germany the "Paris-Berlin Axis," he continues the insults of Rumsfeld, who publicly placed Germany in a pro-Iraqi axis with Cuba and Libya. And obviously the Bush war hawks forget one very important thing: by threatening Paris, Berlin, and Brussels, the Bush clique may be the first U.S. administration to force France to think about retargeting its nuclear "force de frappe" strike force, which is complete with sea-to-ground and ground-to-ground intercontinental nuclear missiles. And with Putin now in closer consultation with France, Russia may also feel that it is past time to again focus its nuclear arsenal on a possible conflict with the United States. Which brings us back to the original concept of Bush's extra-constitutional maneuverings. With an administration that will soon have at its disposal the control over non-auditable computer voting machines across the land, Bushes-in-waiting that will undoubtedly seek higher national office on an endless quasi-monarchical merry-go-round, a compliant Congress run by repulsive demagogues like Tom DeLay, Mitch McConnell, George Allen, Curt Weldon, and Rick Santorum, and virtual dictatorial powers enshrined in the Patriot I and II Acts, there is no relief in sight for America's rapidly fading democracy. A former British Lieutenant Colonel named George Washington once turned the weapons of his army of rebels against his former masters, thus helping to launch the United States as a free and independent nation. One of Washington's indicted co-conspirators and successors as President, Thomas Jefferson, gave us a blueprint on how to handle the Bush regime: "Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that Whenever any form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute a new Government... it is their Right, it is their Duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future Security." And just in case the fascists in control of our government contend that the Founding Fathers were part of another era, let us remember some more recent quotes: "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."--Abraham Lincoln. "I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice. And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue."--Barry Goldwater. "For the sake of peace and justice, let us move toward a world in which all people are at last free to determine their own destiny."--Ronald Reagan. From our Founders to our more recent leaders we have been given the answer to how best deal with the gravest constitutional dilemma that has ever befallen the United States of America. Our modern militia, whose forbearers defended us from the British, pro-slavery secessionists, the Germans, and the Soviet Union, must now defend us once again against all enemies, not foreign but domestic. <a href="http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen02112003.html">www.counterpunch.org/madsen02112003.html</a><hr></blockquote> And has anyone considered that since Bush is gathering so much rightwing and outright fascist enemies, that allowing Bush to rape the country and then bringing in the brownshirts to clean up the place might be the plan? I'm not committed to this idea, but it's one I came up with when I kept seeing articles advocating a military coup. Skolnick was claiming it was actually UNDERWAY for awhile. Ballocks! When Madsen quotes another website...sure, check it out. But when he quotes his inside sources...almost always bullshit. The more outrageous, the less likely to materialize.

by **slimmouse** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:48 pm

I just read the Madsen article you posted , and for your avge man in the street, I shouldnt wonder theres a whole mine of factual stuff out there, that hes not likely to get on NBC nightly. The discussions on this board, no disrespect intended, are hardly the kind your avge American is thinking to deeply over these days. Does Madsen know his readers, and in the sense that hes preaching largely to the converted, fit in well as Cointel ? You could well be right. Or , is he being led astray by his trusted "sources" inside the belly of the beast ? Why not ? One things for sure - At least he aint saying that America should be grateful for the Patriot act, or George Bush, or the Iraq war, Or that its all cos of 9/11. Thats my idea of serious disinfo <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> Is he wholly on the level ? I tend not to get quite so sophisticated. Perhaps thats because If I was being absolutely honest, Id say I seriously dont know. My intellectual river and researching doesnt run that deep ( but does anyones truly run that deep ? What I do know is that lots of what he says makes a lot of sense, and as such, I would reccommend much of his material. The stuff about Al quaeda was sure as hell spot on . Ditto the Nazi comparisons to the Bush regime vis a vi Patriot 1 and 2, Reichstag fire etc.

by **banned** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:13 am

...who said that as long as someone is publishing supposed 'inside secrets' about the ruling elite, they are either a witting part of said elite, or are being used by it, OR the stuff they're publishing may be true but is not considered of any importance by the elite in terms of posing a threat to them. This person...I wish I could recall who it was, I hate menopause...said something like, the way you know that you are saying or writing something that threatens the elite is, they are trying to STOP YOU. And not trying to stop you by saying "Hey, how's it going, could you please not write that?" STOP as in intimidate you, imprison you, or kill you. Was it Marcuse? Damn. Anyway, regardless...I have always since then assumed that if someone isn't scrawling it on a samizdat and smuggling it out of hiding or prison, it probably is not a bombshell that the PTB gives a crap if anyone knows or not. Hence it may well be true, the point is, it isn't important. Most research into conspiracy topics falls in this classification because EVEN IF the truth is published, the PTB are able to limit the damage by tarring it as 'tin hat' crap, plus they rely on the fact that most people are NOT up on the truth about any of the topics that most of us find fascinating from UFOs to who killed the Kennedys to the 'who and how' of 9/11. I found this out when I went through a period of reading intensively about the JFK assassination. I asked friends who were very intelligent, well read, and progressive in politics, and found that unlike say ME they not only weren't bothered by JFK's brain having gone missing, they didn't even know it had! It doesn't matter if a percentage of people who are derided as wackos stumble on the truth. What matters is, that truth will never be on the front page of USAToday or chattered about by Katie and Matt or joked about by Leno or acted upon in Congress or in the courts UNLESS THE PTB decides it should be. So, we can ASSUME that the reason Plame and Scooter are now household words is because THE PTB WANT IT THAT WAY. They may have had it with the neo-con cockroaches and "Plamegate" is the can of bug spray they're going to use to clean house.

by **emad** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:40 pm

I'd say at least 75% counter-intelligence. British intelligence has long fed Madsen with a steady streak of tasty nibbles to keep his attention span solely on his personal agenda. One of the key stories that rears its ugly - regular as clockwork - in the UK is about JFK Jr's wife Carolyn Bessette's bad-ass heroin habit and Madsen's indelicate probing in that direction. The story goes that on their last, tragic day in July 1999, he snorted from the wrong stash while piloting his plane. IE he did a massive line of heroin and the rest is history. Madsen may have had a connecting link to JFK Jr's coke dealer. The Bessette family is also alleged to have paid him off handsomely in the aftermath of the mega-hurried cremation of JFK Jr, his wife and sister in law.

by **hmm** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:41 pm

This is not my choice of article to deconstruct but i will use your example to try to show what i mean. he starts of with the fact that robin cook wrote a piece claiming Al-Qaida means the database. here is what robin cook wrote in the guardian: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1523838,00.html">www.guardian.co.uk/terror...38,00.html</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Bin Laden was, though, a product of a monumental miscalculation by western security agencies. Throughout the 80s he was armed by the CIA and funded by the Saudis to wage jihad against the Russian occupation of Afghanistan. Al-Qaida, literally "the database", was originally the computer file of the thousands of mujahideen who were recruited and trained with help from the CIA to defeat the Russians. Inexplicably, and with disastrous consequences, it never appears to have occurred to Washington that once Russia was out of the way, Bin Laden's organisation would turn its attention to the west.<hr></blockquote> so instead of using his extensive knowledge of the American Intelligence community to get to the bottom of this database and the cia's involvement (which would be his area of expertise?) he almost rips off verbatim a old article by a french ex-intelligence agent.This article claims that the database belongs to islamic countries and was misused by rogue states and al-qaida (circular argument??the database used the database?) while minimising any USA involvement or responsibility. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>"Al Qaida remained the data base of the Islamic Conference. Not all member countries of the Islamic Conference are 'rogue states' and many Islamic groups could pick up information from the databases. It was but natural for Osama Bin Laden to be connected to this network. He is a member of an important family in the banking and business world. "Because of the presence of 'rogue states,' it became easy for terrorist groups to use the email of the database. Hence, the email of Al Qaida was used, with some interface system, providing secrecy, for the families of the mujaheddin to keep links with their children undergoing training in Afghanistan, or in Libya or in the Beqaa valley, Lebanon<hr></blockquote> So now its evil islamic rogue states and terrorists with hardly a mention of the CIA's involvement and conveniently ignoring the fact that most of these so called islamic states are little more than the wests puppets and their intelligence agencies are intwined with the CIA. the only other part of this article by madsen that he seems to have writen himself is at the end. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>In yet another example of what happens to those who challenge the system, in December 2001, Maj. Pierre-Henri Bunel was convicted by a secret French military court of passing classified documents that identified potential NATO bombing targets in Serbia to a Serbian agent during the Kosovo war in 1998. Bunel's case was transferred from a civilian court to keep the details of the case classified. Bunel's character witnesses and psychologists notwithstanding, the system "got him" for telling the truth about Al Qaeda and who has actually been behind the terrorist attacks commonly blamed on that group.<hr></blockquote> This is a bit disingenous too,Bunel was convicted in 2001.The Bunel Al-Qaida article is from 2004.Did "they" travel back in time to punish him?? The Bunel article blames Al-Qaida on "rogue states and terrorists" exploiting an existing database whose purpose was already terror sponsored by the CIA?? you see what i mean?

by **hmm** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:56 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>And has anyone considered that since Bush is gathering so much rightwing and outright fascist enemies, that allowing Bush to rape the country and then bringing in the brownshirts to clean up the place might be the plan? I'm not committed to this idea, but it's one I came up with when I kept seeing articles advocating a military coup. Skolnick was claiming it was actually UNDERWAY for awhile. Ballocks!<hr></blockquote> astute of you. I think the brownshirts are in the planning too. To me 9-11 looks more like a coup-d'etat than a terror attack but i would be extremely wary of "men in uniform" coming to the rescue.

by **Dreams End** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:25 pm

excellent "deconstruction" there Hmmm....I think a few more of those are in order. I was astonished that Robin Cook actually said what he said about the database and lived to tell about it. errr....umm....well, he didn't actually live very long to tell about it.

by **robertdreed** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:55 pm

I know a hell of a lot more about Madsen and his sources than I do about "emad" and his sources.

Proof Wayne Madsen is a SPOOK! time to get rigorous?

Proof Wayne Madsen is a SPOOK! time to get rigorous?

He was thrown out of the UK in the 1980s for hacking

Re: Madsen

Re: Madsen - limited hangout?

Re: Madsen - limited hangout?

Re: Madsen - Disinfo ? - Well Spot the disinfo here lol ? ?

Re: Madsen - Disinfo ? - Well Spot the disinfo here lol ? ?

Re: Madsen - Disinfo ? - Well Spot the disinfo here lol ? ?

Re: Madsen - Like I said....Paranoia/ mistrust abounds.

Many years ago I read someone...forget who now...

"Madsen has connections who feed him what they want&quo

Re: Madsen - Disinfo ? - i will try to show what i mean

Re: Madsen - fan of the coup

Re: Madsen - fan of the coup

emad = disinfo

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