Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

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Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby starroute » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:43 pm

I see that Xymphora this morning is choosing to argue with Jeff's Lone Conmen post from a week ago -- specifically the paragraph which says:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"The neocons are the Lone Gunmen of Iraq. They're the patsies who'll eventually take the fall for its failure, which will actually mean success to the real players who've allowed them the liberty to play their hand. Like Oswald, these patsies aren't innocents, but neither should perfect blame be laid at their feet. And like Oswald, when their heads are offered to the public the public will be expected to sigh with relief that the beast has been slain and all is right again in the land."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>Xymphora's somewhat sneering response to this is:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/12/holocaust-ii-and-neocon-conspiracy.html">xymphora.blogspot.com/200...iracy.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>In other words, the original Powers That Be, presumably the Eastern Establishment or some such plutocrat group, staffed the Bush White House with Jews so when the shit for the plutocrats' war hit the fan, the whole thing could be blamed on the Jews. But surely Paul and Scooter aren't Lee and James Earl? Patsies don't know what is going on, and are set up to take the blame for what the conspirators did. Paul and Scooter know exactly what is going on. Patsies get very little benefit out of their peripheral involvement in the conspiracy, but Paul and Scooter got exactly what they wanted. They wanted a trillion dollar war in a series of trillion dollar wars, all of which would only benefit Israel, but which Israel could never hope to pay for. The United States can't afford them either, but at least can (still) borrow the money. If the neocons are patsies, they are the first patsies who knew exactly what was going on and got exactly what they intended to get.<br><br><snip><br><br>It's probably also time for conspiracy theorists to reconsider the idea that the American plutocracy always gets everything it wants, and is ultimately behind every conspiracy. Sometimes wealth leads to laziness and lack of attention to detail. The oil companies didn't want this war. The plutocrats are making out like bandits on it, but they always make out like bandits. Sometimes a concerted conspiracy by a small group of completely dedicated people can, at least for a time, control the agenda. I'm now thinking about the conspiracy to reposition the Republican Party over the last thirty years, a conspiracy that started in Israel.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br>All I've got on this at the moment is a gut feeling -- but my gut says it's deeply, deeply twisted.<br><br>I posted either here or at the blog a month or two ago about "court Jews" and why certain Jews have a recurring willingness to fall into the ancient pattern of semi-acceptance / exploitation / eventual scapegoating by the rulers of the moment. I thought that Jeff made an equivalent point extremely clearly. And it bothers me no end that Xymphora would not only seize on that point but do so without even bothering to address it directly, merely intensifying the scapegoating.<br><br>Bashing Neocons is Paul Craig Roberts territory -- a game for unreconstructed Paleocons with a strong whiff of racism. To me, this approach by Xymphora goes along with its recent attacks on WTC demolition hypotheses as a possible indication not of honest debate, but of a concerted disinformation campaign. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby dragon feathers Jack » Mon Dec 19, 2005 1:54 pm

this stuff is all outcomes of and related to Dee and Kelleys work and The Babalon Working,<br><br>its from before there was a USA.<br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby scollon » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:20 pm

Xymphora has every right to sneer, the idea that these major players are patsies is just plain daft and betrays some form of prejudice or monolithic outlook. A prejudice thatincidentally seems very prevelant here.<br><br>Where is the precedent for jews being scapegoats in the USA ? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 12/19/05 11:26 am<br></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby DBtv » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:26 pm

xymphora is an obvious gatekeeper. <br><br>The Likud is as reprehensible as the American Republicrat party, but until the curtain is pulled to reveal the overlords of the neocon, neofascist front, no real progress for the world can be achieved.<br><br>Thank you, Jeff, for having the courage to continue to peel away the layers of the onion to reach its rotten core. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby scollon » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:27 pm

"the overlords of the neocon, neofascist front"<br><br>Who are they ? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby DBtv » Mon Dec 19, 2005 2:50 pm

("the overlords of the neocon, neofascist front"<br><br>Who are they ?)<br><br>Follow the money. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby Dreams End » Mon Dec 19, 2005 7:08 pm

There are very many on this site who will agree with Xymphora's assessment. I'm not among them, of course. <br><br>Here's the key phrase that distinguishes Xymphora's "analysis" from the "Bad stuff is happening and Jews are involved so why are we not allowed to say so" line that the purveyors of Jewish conspiracy theory fall back on when challenged.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>One of the mysteries of the recent American history is how a small group of Jewish intellectuals <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>took over</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> the American government and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>forced</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> it to enter into a trillion dollar war that has hurt the interests of the United States.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's the crux of it. To say that Jews are involved in making (bad) policy in the US government is self-evident. To assert that a small coterie of jews has FORCED the US into war is something else altogether. This statement begs the question, "From where does their power come?" How could a small minority control the "greatest superpower" in the world? <br><br>There are simply no explanations for this viewpoint that do not require a very powerful, orchestrated and widespread effort by this minority to carry out such a difficult task. Even then, you still don't have an explanation of how they got to be so powerful in the first place. And this is where Jewish conspiracy theory comes in. To assume that Jewish Americans somehow have more power than the collective ruling class of this country is to assume little short of a worldwide conspiracy. What else could bring the US to heel?<br><br>This explanation is not just abhorrent because of its attitude toward Jews. Even more importantly, it leaves a very LARGE hole in the picture of who runs the world. It lets an awful lot of people off the hook and, indeed, the very system that created them. <br><br>I'll have some more to say on this later...when, I expect, I'll have to run to the Firepit to find this thread???<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby scollon » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:26 pm

<br>Here is an evil antisemitic scumbag who say it was Jews who got us all into the Iraq war.<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=280279&contrassID=2&subContrassID=14&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y">www.haaretz.com/hasen/pag...&listSrc=Y</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>White man's burden <br> <br>By Ari Shavit <br> <br>The war in Iraq was conceived by 25 neoconservative intellectuals, most of them Jewish, who are pushing President Bush to change the course of history. Two of them, journalists William Kristol and Charles Krauthammer, say it's possible. But another journalist, Thomas Friedman (not part of the group), is skeptical <br> <br>1. The doctrine<br><br>WASHINGTON - At the conclusion of its second week, the war to liberate Iraq wasn't looking good. Not even in Washington. The assumption of a swift collapse of the Saddam Hussein regime had itself collapsed. The presupposition that the Iraqi dictatorship would crumble as soon as mighty America entered the country proved unfounded. The Shi'ites didn't rise up, the Sunnis fought fiercely. Iraqi guerrilla warfare found the American generals unprepared and endangered their overextended supply lines. Nevertheless, 70 percent of the American people continued to support the war; 60 percent thought victory was certain; 74 percent expressed confidence in President George W. Bush.<br><br>Washington is a small city. It's a place of human dimensions. A kind of small town that happens to run an empire. A small town of government officials and members of Congress and personnel of research institutes and journalists who pretty well all know one another. Everyone is busy intriguing against everyone else; and everyone gossips about everyone else.<br><br>In the course of the past year, a new belief has emerged in the town: the belief in war against Iraq. That ardent faith was disseminated by a small group of 25 or 30 neoconservatives, almost all of them Jewish, almost all of them intellectuals (a partial list: Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas Feith, William Kristol, Eliot Abrams, Charles Krauthammer), people who are mutual friends and cultivate one another and are convinced that political ideas are a major driving force of history. They believe that the right political idea entails a fusion of morality and force, human rights and grit. The philosophical underpinnings of the Washington neoconservatives are the writings of Machiavelli, Hobbes and Edmund Burke. They also admire Winston Churchill and the policy pursued by Ronald Reagan. They tend to read reality in terms of the failure of the 1930s (Munich) versus the success of the 1980s (the fall of the Berlin Wall).<br><br>Are they wrong? Have they committed an act of folly in leading Washington to Baghdad? They don't think so. They continue to cling to their belief. They are still pretending that everything is more or less fine. That things will work out. Occasionally, though, they seem to break out in a cold sweat. This is no longer an academic exercise, one of them says, we are responsible for what is happening. The ideas we put forward are now affecting the lives of millions of people. So there are moments when you're scared. You say, Hell, we came to help, but maybe we made a mistake.<br><br>2. William Kristol<br><br>Has America bitten off more than it can chew? Bill Kristol says no. True, the press is very negative, but when you examine the facts in the field you see that there is no terrorism, no mass destruction, no attacks on Israel. The oil fields in the south have been saved, air control has been achieved, American forces are deployed 50 miles from Baghdad. So, even if mistakes were made here and there, they are not serious. America is big enough to handle that. Kristol hasn't the slightest doubt that in the end, General Tommy Franks will achieve his goals. The 4th Cavalry Division will soon enter the fray, and another division is on its way from Texas. So it's possible that instead of an elegant war with 60 killed in two weeks it will be a less elegant affair with a thousand killed in two months, but nevertheless Bill Kristol has no doubt at all that the Iraq Liberation War is a just war, an obligatory war.<br><br>Kristol is pleasant-looking, of average height, in his late forties. In the past 18 months he has used his position as editor of the right-wing Weekly Standard and his status as one of the leaders of the neoconservative circle in Washington to induce the White House to do battle against Saddam Hussein. Because Kristol is believed to exercise considerable influence on the president, Vice President Richard Cheney and Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, he is also perceived as having been instrumental in getting Washington to launch this all-out campaign against Baghdad. Sitting behind the stacks of books that cover his desk at the offices of the Weekly Standard in Northwest Washington, he tries to convince me that he is not worried. It is simply inconceivable to him that America will not win. In that event, the consequences would be catastrophic. No one wants to think seriously about that possibility.<br><br>What is the war about? I ask. Kristol replies that at one level it is the war that George Bush is talking about: a war against a brutal regime that has in its possession weapons of mass destruction. But at a deeper level it is a greater war, for the shaping of a new Middle East. It is a war that is intended to change the political culture of the entire region. Because what happened on September 11, 2001, Kristol says, is that the Americans looked around and saw that the world is not what they thought it was. The world is a dangerous place. Therefore the Americans looked for a doctrine that would enable them to cope with this dangerous world. And the only doctrine they found was the neoconservative one.<br><br>That doctrine maintains that the problem with the Middle East is the absence of democracy and of freedom. It follows that the only way to block people like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden is to disseminate democracy and freedom. To change radically the cultural and political dynamics that creates such people. And the way to fight the chaos is to create a new world order that will be based on freedom and human rights - and to be ready to use force in order to consolidate this new world. So that, really, is what the war is about. It is being fought to consolidate a new world order, to create a new Middle East.<br><br>Does that mean that the war in Iraq is effectively a neoconservative war? That's what people are saying, Kristol replies, laughing. But the truth is that it's an American war. The neoconservatives succeeded because they touched the bedrock of America. The thing is that America has a profound sense of mission. America has a need to offer something that transcends a life of comfort, that goes beyond material success. Therefore, because of their ideals, the Americans accepted what the neoconservatives proposed. They didn't want to fight a war over interests, but over values. They wanted a war driven by a moral vision. They wanted to hitch their wagon to something bigger than themselves.<br><br>Does this moral vision mean that after Iraq will come the turns of Saudi Arabia and Egypt?<br><br>Kristol says that he is at odds with the administration on the question of Saudi Arabia. But his opinion is that it is impossible to let Saudi Arabia just continue what it is doing. It is impossible to accept the anti-Americanism it is disseminating. The fanatic Wahhabism that Saudi Arabia engenders is undermining the stability of the entire region. It's the same with Egypt, he says: we mustn't accept the status quo there. For Egypt, too, the horizon has to be liberal democracy.<br><br>It has to be understood that in the final analysis, the stability that the corrupt Arab despots are offering is illusory. Just as the stability that Yitzhak Rabin received from Yasser Arafat was illusory. In the end, none of these decadent dictatorships will endure. The choice is between extremist Islam, secular fascism or democracy. And because of September 11, American understands that. America is in a position where it has no choice. It is obliged to be far more aggressive in promoting democracy. Hence this war. It's based on the new American understanding that if the United States does not shape the world in its image, the world will shape the United States in its own image.<br><br>3. Charles Krauthammer<br><br>Is this going to turn into a second Vietnam? Charles Krauthammer says no. There is no similarity to Vietnam. Unlike in the 1960s, there is no anti-establishment subculture in the United States now. Unlike in the 1960s, there is now an abiding love of the army in the United States. Unlike in the 1960s, there is a determined president, one with character, in the White House. And unlike in the 1960s, Americans are not deterred from making sacrifices. That is the sea-change that took place here on September 11, 2001. Since that morning, Americans have understood that if they don't act now and if weapons of mass destruction reach extremist terrorist organizations, millions of Americans will die. Therefore, because they understand that those others want to kill them by the millions, the Americans prefer to take to the field of battle and fight, rather than sit idly by and die at home.<br><br>Charles Krauthammer is handsome, swarthy and articulate. In his spacious office on 19th Street in Northwest Washington, he sits upright in a black wheelchair. Although his writing tends to be gloomy, his mood now is elevated. The well-known columnist (Washington Post, Time, Weekly Standard) has no real doubts about the outcome of the war that he promoted for 18 months. No, he does not accept the view that he helped lead America into the new killing fields between the Tigris and the Euphrates. But it is true that he is part of a conceptual stream that had something to offer in the aftermath of September 11. Within a few weeks after the attacks on the Twin Towers and the Pentagon, he had singled out Baghdad in his columns as an essential target. And now, too, he is convinced that America has the strength to pull it off. The thought that America will not win has never even crossed his mind.<br><br>What is the war about? It's about three different issues. First of all, this is a war for disarming Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction. That's the basis, the self-evident cause, and it is also sufficient cause in itself. But beyond that, the war in Iraq is being fought to replace the demonic deal America cut with the Arab world decades ago. That deal said: you will send us oil and we will not intervene in your internal affairs. Send us oil and we will not demand from you what we are demanding of Chile, the Philippines, Korea and South Africa.<br><br>That deal effectively expired on September 11, 2001, Krauthammer says. Since that day, the Americans have understood that if they allow the Arab world to proceed in its evil ways - suppression, economic ruin, sowing despair - it will continue to produce more and more bin Ladens. America thus reached the conclusion that it has no choice: it has to take on itself the project of rebuilding the Arab world. Therefore, the Iraq war is really the beginning of a gigantic historical experiment whose purpose is to do in the Arab world what was done in Germany and Japan after World War II.<br><br>It's an ambitious experiment, Krauthammer admits, maybe even utopian, but not unrealistic. After all, it is inconceivable to accept the racist assumption that the Arabs are different from all other human beings, that the Arabs are incapable of conducting a democratic way of life.<br><br>However, according to the Jewish-American columnist, the present war has a further importance. If Iraq does become pro-Western and if it becomes the focus of American influence, that will be of immense geopolitical importance. An American presence in Iraq will project power across the region. It will suffuse the rebels in Iran with courage and strength, and it will deter and restrain Syria. It will accelerate the processes of change that the Middle East must undergo.<br><br>Isn't the idea of preemptive war a dangerous one that rattles the world order?<br><br>There is no choice, Krauthammer replies. In the 21st century we face a new and singular challenge: the democratization of mass destruction. There are three possible strategies in the face of that challenge: appeasement, deterrence and preemption. Because appeasement and deterrence will not work, preemption is the only strategy left. The United States must implement an aggressive policy of preemption. Which is exactly what it is now doing in Iraq. That is what Tommy Franks' soldiers are doing as we speak.<br><br>And what if the experiment fails? What if America is defeated?<br><br>This war will enhance the place of America in the world for the coming generation, Krauthammer says. Its outcome will shape the world for the next 25 years. There are three possibilities. If the United States wins quickly and without a bloodbath, it will be a colossus that will dictate the world order. If the victory is slow and contaminated, it will be impossible to go on to other Arab states after Iraq. It will stop there. But if America is beaten, the consequences will be catastrophic. Its deterrent capability will be weakened, its friends will abandon it and it will become insular. Extreme instability will be engendered in the Middle East.<br><br>You don't really want to think about what will happen, Krauthammer says looking me straight in the eye. But just because that's so, I am positive we will not lose. Because the administration understands the implications. The president understands that everything is riding on this. So he will throw everything we've got into this. He will do everything that has to be done. George W. Bush will not let America lose.<br><br>4. Thomas Friedman<br><br>Is this an American Lebanon War? Tom Friedman says he is afraid it is. He was there, in the Commodore Hotel in Beirut, in the summer of 1982, and he remembers it well. So he sees the lines of resemblance clearly. General Ahmed Chalabi (the Shi'ite leader that the neoconservatives want to install as the leader of a free Iraq) in the role of Bashir Jemayel. The Iraqi opposition in the role of the Phalange. Richard Perle and the conservative circle around him as Ariel Sharon. And a war that is at bottom a war of choice. A war that wants to utilize massive force in order to establish a new order.<br><br>Tom Friedman, The New York Times columnist, did not oppose the war. On the contrary. He too was severely shaken by September 11, he too wants to understand where these desperate fanatics are coming from who hate America more than they love their own lives. And he too reached the conclusion that the status quo in the Middle East is no longer acceptable. The status quo is terminal. And therefore it is urgent to foment a reform in the Arab world.<br><br>Some things are true even if George Bush believes them, Friedman says with a smile. And after September 11, it's impossible to tell Bush to drop it, ignore it. There was a certain basic justice in the overall American feeling that told the Arab world: we left you alone for a long time, you played with matches and in the end we were burned. So we're not going to leave you alone any longer.<br><br>He is sitting in a large rectangular room in the offices of The New York Times in northwest Washington, on the corner of 17th Street. One wall of the room is a huge map of the world. Hunched over his computer, he reads me witty lines from the article that will be going to press in two hours. He polishes, sharpens, plays word games. He ponders what's right to say now, what should be left for a later date. Turning to me, he says that democracies look soft until they're threatened. When threatened, they become very hard. Actually, the Iraq war is a kind of Jenin on a huge scale. Because in Jenin, too, what happened was that the Israelis told the Palestinians, We left you here alone and you played with matches until suddenly you blew up a Passover seder in Netanya. And therefore we are not going to leave you along any longer. We will go from house to house in the Casbah. And from America's point of view, Saddam's Iraq is Jenin. This war is a defensive shield. It follows that the danger is the same: that like Israel, America will make the mistake of using only force.<br><br>This is not an illegitimate war, Friedman says. But it is a very presumptuous war. You need a great deal of presumption to believe that you can rebuild a country half a world from home. But if such a presumptuous war is to have a chance, it needs international support. That international legitimacy is essential so you will have enough time and space to execute your presumptuous project. But George Bush didn't have the patience to glean international support. He gambled that the war would justify itself, that we would go in fast and conquer fast and that the Iraqis would greet us with rice and the war would thus be self-justifying. That did not happen. Maybe it will happen next week, but in the meantime it did not happen.<br><br>When I think about what is going to happen, I break into a sweat, Friedman says. I see us being forced to impose a siege on Baghdad. And I know what kind of insanity a siege on Baghdad can unleash. The thought of house-to-house combat in Baghdad without international legitimacy makes me lose my appetite. I see American embassies burning. I see windows of American businesses shattered. I see how the Iraqi resistance to America connects to the general Arab resistance to America and the worldwide resistance to America. The thought of what could happen is eating me up.<br><br>What George Bush did, Friedman says, is to show us a splendid mahogany table: the new democratic Iraq. But when you turn the table over, you see that it has only one leg. This war is resting on one leg. But on the other hand, anyone who thinks he can defeat George Bush had better think again. Bush will never give in. That's not what he's made of. Believe me, you don't want to be next to this guy when he thinks he's being backed into a corner. I don't suggest that anyone who holds his life dear mess with Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and President Bush.<br><br>Is the Iraq war the great neoconservative war? It's the war the neoconservatives wanted, Friedman says. It's the war the neoconservatives marketed. Those people had an idea to sell when September 11 came, and they sold it. Oh boy, did they sell it. So this is not a war that the masses demanded. This is a war of an elite. Friedman laughs: I could give you the names of 25 people (all of whom are at this moment within a five-block radius of this office) who, if you had exiled them to a desert island a year and a half ago, the Iraq war would not have happened.<br><br>Still, it's not all that simple, Friedman retracts. It's not some fantasy the neoconservatives invented. It's not that 25 people hijacked America. You don't take such a great nation into such a great adventure with Bill Kristol and the Weekly Standard and another five or six influential columnists. In the final analysis, what fomented the war is America's over-reaction to September 11. The genuine sense of anxiety that spread in America after September 11. It is not only the neoconservatives who led us to the outskirts of Baghdad. What led us to the outskirts of Baghdad is a very American combination of anxiety and hubris<br> <br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Xymphora picks a bone with Rigorous Intuition

Postby scollon » Mon Dec 19, 2005 8:35 pm

They managed it because there is massive Jewish influence in the media, politics and finance (Murdoch was sponsored by Michael Milkin to set up in the USA).<br><br>Let's be very explicit, this is indeed the kind of accusation made by Adolf Hitler in Germany. Is Justin Raimondo or Pat Buchanan going to run for office, do Americans actually care who runs the country ? I don't think so as long as the pizzas, cocaine, oil and beer are flowing <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 12/19/05 5:39 pm<br></i>
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Raimondo for President

Postby scollon » Mon Dec 19, 2005 9:01 pm

No. Unlike Bush and Blair, he's an open homosexual. Not a hope. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=scollon>scollon</A> at: 12/19/05 7:09 pm<br></i>
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Re: Raimondo for President

Postby Dreams End » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:44 am

<br>I just wanted to be clear about the paramaters of this discussion. Some of these neo-cons have positions in government and others write in influential magazines. And most of them are Jewish. Therefore, no one is arguing about whether these rather rightwing Jews were leading the VISIBLE effort to drum up support for the war. <br><br>The argument is about whether these men somehow were powerful enough to "take over" the government and "force" such a policy. This is quite a different proposition. Vague yet hauntingly familiar explanations of Jewish "control" of the media don't cut it. If you want to have ANY rigor at all, you would need to list the major Jewish "controlled" media (what does that mean, anyway, in this age of multinational congolmerates?) alongside the major non Jewish controlled media (why do I even have to type this?) and then compare their relative support or propagandizing for this war.<br><br>You know what you'll find? Not much difference. You know why? BECAUSE THE ROLE OF THE MAJOR MEDIA HAS ALWAYS BEEN TO SUPPORT THE RULING POWER STRUCTURE. Ever hear of William "You provide the pictures, I'll provide the war" Hearst? And some guy named Murdoch owns Fox, which, if I recall, was the worst of the lot. Ever hear of operation Mockingbird...the CIA's ADMITTED strategy of utilizing the press in order to achieve their ends? Ever hear of the psyops people "interning" at CNN? And, of course, the profit motive is key. The major media, whatever the ownership, is owned by very wealthy folks who, quite frankly, would like to remain that way. <br><br>So, you have those with the power to implement the policy of war: Bush (as in Cheney) and Rumsfeld (and the powers they represent) and you have this group of mainly Jewish underlings, advisors and conservative columnists who are the public face of this policy. <br><br>There are three possibilities. <br><br>1. Everyone in the administration thought that this war was "winnable" and was a great idea in order to foster a stable middle east. They had, luckily for them, assembled a crack team of "neo-cons" to handle the details, leaving Rumsfeld free to wow the press corp. <br><br>or<br><br>2. As the article would have it, the administration and team Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld are just guys doing their job and then along come these neo-cons and persuade them that the Iraq war was a really good idea. If it hadn't been for them, Bush would be up for a Nobel prize by now.<br><br>or<br><br>3. These evil Jewish neo-cons didn't just "persuade" Cheney and Bush, they somehow amassed enough power to force the hapless Bush team into submission to do their bidding. This is Xymphora's STATED POSITION. Bush was "forced". The government was "taken over." <br> <br>Frankly, 1 and 2 are simply naive. These guys ALL have access to enough inside information and intelligence to know EXACTLY what the real deal is in Iraq and with the "terrorists". They know who funded them and for what purposes. They know the CIA put Saddam in power and that Rumsfeld sold him the chemical weapons. They know Osama led a CIA mercenary force to fight the evil Commies in Afghanistan and former Yugoslavia. The "incompetence" theory of history just doesn't fly with me.<br><br>So you are left with number three. And it is this level of analysis that is simplistic at best and symptomatic of attempts at "research" when the idea of Jewish control is axiomatic. This is why the fact that Jews DO NOT ACT AS A MONOLITH can be explained by how those clever Jews "play both sides." This is why non-Jewish powers such as the Rockefellers must be posited (by the most devout anti-Semites) as being "agents" of an actual Jewish banker.<br><br>It is self-referential and tautological with no possibility for being disproved. Jews run the system and any evidence to the contrary is proof at how effectively they run the system. The fact that Rumsfeld and Bush had ultimate authority doesn't show that the Jews are being used but that they are using Bush and Rumsfeld. <br><br>The fact that non-Jewish media were lustily supporting the war prove just how powerful the Jewish media is in setting the agenda.<br><br>The fact that Israeli security experts have repeatedly said that war in Iraq does NOT help Israel's secutiy is further proof of how cleverly the Jewish agenda is hidden.<br><br>There's no way to argue with this logic. <br><br>But look at it this way. In over 200 years of US history, replete with military interventions, both covert and overt, and with the development of the national security state, the US did just fine, thank you very much, in doing the EXACT same thing they are doing right now...wrecking countries and rearranging maps to suit their fancy. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=dreamsend@rigorousintuition>Dreams End</A> at: 12/19/05 10:49 pm<br></i>
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Re: the neocons may be evil, but they got played too

Postby Iroquois » Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:46 am

The Haaretz article, as it mentions that the 4th ID hadn't even entered the war yet, was clearly written in the early stages of the war. This was before the disbandmend of the Iraqi army, the siege and destruction of Fallujah, the assualt on Najaf, the promotion of the anti-US al-Sadre into Shiite rebel hero, the sectarian bombings that were (I believe largely, but at least to some extent) promoted by and/or perpetrated by US and British agents, the release of the Abu Graibh torture photos, the execution of the old man in the Fallujah mosque and other possibly calculated religious incitements, not to mention the verification that the legal "justification" for the war was a bit of a goof (as well as a long list of other "mistakes and miscalculations") gaurunteed that the Neo-con plans for Iraq would not succeed.<br><br>The neocons may have fullfilled the need for a left-ideological justification for the war to sell it to the masses, but the evidence on the ground tells me that the agenda actually being pursued is something radically different than the neocon plan to promote their vision of the NWO via democratization of the Middle East. Even the neocons believed they were players, but they were still just pieces on the board to more established factions of the PTB.<br> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=iroquois@rigorousintuition>Iroquois</A> at: 12/19/05 10:50 pm<br></i>
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Re: the neocons may be evil, but they got played too

Postby scollon » Tue Dec 20, 2005 2:05 am

I'm sorry, painting the neocons as actually wanting nice things (like democracy) to happen comes from a parallel universe. How about trying "Jews always do nice things so it couldn't have been them". <br><br>I have heard that a billion times and always fall for it, silly me !! It's certainly more credible. <p></p><i></i>
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Look at the post-Invasion facts on the ground

Postby anon » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:02 am

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>I just wanted to be clear about the paramaters of this discussion. Some of these neo-cons have positions in government and others write in influential magazines. And most of them are Jewish. Therefore, no one is arguing about whether these rather rightwing Jews were leading the VISIBLE effort to drum up support for the war.<br><br>The argument is about whether these men somehow were powerful enough to "take over" the government and "force" such a policy. This is quite a different proposition.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>This may sound insane, but if the Americans had 500,000 or so troops in Iraq after the invasion, this whole thing<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em> might</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> have worked. (not that I'm advocating wars of aggression by any stretch of the imagination.) But it was acutally <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Rumsfeld</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, a former Secretary of Defense, who decided to roll with the small numbers. He <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>should</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> have known better. If you recall, rolling small was anathema to Powell and the generals, and is certainly contrary to the Powell doctrine. Wolfowitz bought into Rumsfeld's lie because he's a dangerous ideologue and had no real military experience. Now, this is purely speculation on my part--I have no hard evidence to go on--but there is no way anyone is going to convince me that Rumsfeld is actually a pro-Israeli, pro-Zionist Neocon. My point is that it was Rumsfeld, not the Neocon policy wonks, who ultimately had the power to make or break the Occupation and bring us to the finger pointing phase we are in now. <br><br>Remember: "Stuff Happens" in Iraq.<br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><br>"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things," Rumsfeld said. "They're also free to live their lives and do wonderful things. And that's what's going to happen here."<br><br>Looting, he added, was not uncommon for countries that experience significant social upheaval. "Stuff happens," Rumsfeld said.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11/sprj.irq.pentagon/">www.cnn.com/2003/US/04/11....pentagon/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>If that isn't an intentional snow job, I don't know what is. <br><br>Look at the evidence on the ground ( as Iroquois clearly summarizes) and the man at the controls. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Look at the post-Invasion facts on the ground

Postby scollon » Tue Dec 20, 2005 3:10 am

This is easy, Rumsfeld really <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>is</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> actually a pro-Israeli, pro-Zionist Neocon. It's not a secret. He's a member of the PNAC.<br><br>Here is the rogue's gallery Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes <br>Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman PodhoretzDan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.newamericancentury.org/statementofprinciples.htm">www.newamericancentury.or...ciples.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>The reason they went in under strenghth and <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>lost</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> almost 400 tons of explosives was to provide an excuse for permanent occupation.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
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