Ruppert

[scollon]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>So why would water on the moon be helpful for getting to Mars?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>One sixth gravity, much easier for making regular trips to establish a Martian colony.<br><br><!--EZCODE IMAGE START--><img src="http://www.chris-place.com/images/mars_wmt.jpg" style="border:0;"/><!--EZCODE IMAGE END--><br><br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[manxkat]

heath7, I like your positive outlook about this new free energy. My problem in understanding the suppression of this technology isn't the idea that big oil would go to great lengths to stop it -- that makes perfect sense -- but it's the thought that the various inventors would be that smart to create their inventions, but then so stupid as not to protect themselves from theft or destruction of their inventions, and/or outright murder. Why wouldn't they make more than one prototype, and have multiple copies of the documentation explaining the science? I mean, that's common sense.... but, maybe these guys are/were lacking in that.<br><br>It's pretty hard to swallow the idea that big oil has been 100% effective in stopping new energy discoveries. Somebody out there surely has broken through these roadblocks. I remember a thread in here awhile back -- and I don't have time to look it up right now -- where a company has formed in NJ I believe, where they're working on a new energy machine that's supposed to be quite revolutionary. That company has a web site, quite a few employees, a facility, etc. and if they have any sense, lots of backups of data scattered throughout the world. I'd like to be hopeful about all this.... and I'd love to replace my expensive solar panels if something way better came along. But, hey, for now they DO work and they're available. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=manxkat@rigorousintuition>manxkat</A> at: 1/13/06 3:58 pm<br></i>

[Bismillah]

Japan imports 95% of its oil from the Middle East. So why wouldn't the Japanese invent a new energy source if they could? Or the Cubans? Or the North Koreans? Or, indeed, anyone else? Because the Big Oil Assassins are going to infiltrate their countries and bump off the inventors...?<br><br>Forgive me, but I don't believe it. Big Oil is very powerful, but is does not literally rule the world. And if we haven't yet seen a revolutionary new energy source that's going to save all our asses, it's certainly not (just) because Big Oil is blocking the way. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[yablonsky]

it's not the ubiquitous power of big oil, it's those out of control rental car companies grinding everyone down <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :p --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":p"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/13/BUGLQGM91F1.DTL">sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...GM91F1.DTL</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>

[pugzleyca3]

Bismalla,<br><br>"Forgive me, but I don't believe it. Big Oil is very powerful, but is does not literally rule the world."<br><br>I beg to differ with this comment you made. With the help of the U.S. government and other corrupt governments across the world, they are well on their way to ruling the world.<br><br>What is see is military clearing the way for their corporate interests in many countries, especially in Afghanistan and Iraq and soon, in Iran. (This has happened in other countries where Halliburton put in oil pipelines in dictatorial countries as well)<br><br>Where will this stop? Imperialism has always been a dirty word here in America, until recently it seems. <br><br>The welding together of corporate interests and a corrupt government (which sets policy and directs military resources) makes for a very nasty combination. <br><br>We all know there are many other alternate energy sources. But there is little or no government investment in order to get us to change our dependency on oil. Look at who is invested in oil. And who is invested in the war machine. Then look at who's in control of the goverment. What we see daily are many agendas coming together which profit each other and feed each other and make a select few very, very rich. Without death and destruction, none of this lovely money would be as freeflowing as it is. <br><br>Another thing you have to look at is the massive amounts of U.S. dollars which are kept in reserve in order for countries to be able to buy oil on the world market. Look at our debt to Japan. They're one of our largest creditors at this time. <br><br>Just as Iraq was attacked for switching to the eurodollar regarding their oil, the same fate will befall Iran if they switch in March of 2006.<br><br>Practically speaking, if a cheap or even free energy alternatives became available even today. You would see a global economic disaster of unimaginable proportions. At least this is how I see it. The dollar would have to fall like a rock. If switching to euros by Iraq was enough for that war to be waged in order to maintain U.S. dollar supremacy, think what would happen to the dollar if it wasn't needed anywhere to buy oil. And if oil became moot altogether. <br><br>What is happening that is keeping alternate energy sources away from the people is a huge conspiracy. Probably the biggest one in the world, from what I can tell. And it appears to all revolve around worldwide dollar supremacy from what I can see. <br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[prophetlady]

How can any of you who so vehemently refute Peak Oil be so sure of yourselves?<br><br>Have you read the literature, listened to the experts (Campbell, Simmons, Defeyes, Kunstler, etc.)?<br><br>Does the idea of a finite product make no logical sense to you?<br><br>And, finally, whether it is or is not real makes no difference. They will make it our reality, and we'll have no choice but to deal with it.<br><br>Or do one of you have a brilliant idea that will save all of mankind?<br><br>Just curious. <p></p><i></i>

[manxkat]

Well stated prophetlady, especially how it makes no difference if Peak Oil is real or not. I happen to believe it is, but even those who think it's a big scam are going to have to deal with it too.... unless they're the scammers.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[Dreams End]

Prophet lady,<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Does the idea of a finite product make no logical sense to you<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END-->?<br><br>Sure it does...but as there is no consensus on how much oil is left, when it will "peak", I get a little wary of "end of the world as we know it scenarios." And it is this version of Peak Oil that is not only alarmist, but also utilized by some for other agendas, such as the idea of "population reduction" discussed in the recent thread on "greens and population concerns." <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=2579.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...2579.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>In addition, everyone, pro and con, is relying on oil industry reports and many of the people you list have ties to the oil industry. I don't trust the oil industry. I'm funny that way. Simmons, for example, manages investments in the oil industry. He's a high roller and bigtime player in that arena. So when he preaches peak oil (which will only make prices rise) or pushes an "oil depletion protocol" that calls for mandatory reporting of oil reserves even by unwilling countries who've nationalized their oil industries, it hardly seems he is free of conflict of interest.<br><br>Here is a site I often recommend for peak oilers. The author of this site is a BELIEVER in peak oil, but not in the "apocolypse coming soon" variety. <br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/">peakoildebunked.blogspot.com/</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><br>You may have to read a few posts to get that he believes in peak oil, as even the name of the site "Peak Oil Debunked" suggests he is completely opposed to the idea. If you read enough, though, you'll see that he thinks peak is coming but that we can survive without scary and vague plans for "reducing" the population. <br><br>So, with the obvious interest the oil industry would have in putting out "peak oil" (Chevron made an ad campaign out of it), the oil industry ties of those who "study it", scary plans for population reduction, such as found in the Association for the Study of Peak Oil newsletter as quoted in the above linked thread, rightwing zealots jumping on Peak Oil, there are reasons to be skeptical. We should be pushing for alternative energies...don't get me wrong. But the Peak Oil I'm concerned about says it's already too late to do anything...so just gather supplies and head for the hills. <p></p><i></i>

[Iroquois]

Thanks DE, that is an interesting blog. But, what I got from it was really more of the same. Just instead of scary and vague warnings about social collapse and population reduction, JD seems to say that we plebs need not worry as the technocratic elite will surely devise some plan to radically restructure our whole social and economic reality in such a way so that most not only survive Peak Oil but many possibly even benefit from it.<br><br>In other words: "Don't bother trying to find your own way to survive Peak Oil. The idiots who got us into this mess will find a way out. And, if you facilitate whatever they decry, you may even benefit from it financially."<br><br>Maybe it's a better outlook, but the tremendous vagueness of how that restructuring will take place and what the end result would be doesn't put my mind at ease, and that really seems the only point of his argument.<br><br>There are many agendas supported by the Peak Oil crowd, including the need to raise oil prices to eat up all those extra dollars the Feds are pumping out. But, the oil industry seems to be playing both sides. In the June '05 issue of Scientific American, the infamous "Fahrenheit 2777" attempt to debunk controlled demolition was followed by five pages of pseudo article "special advertising section" about how technological advances will ensure adequate energy for future demand, paid for by ExxonMobile and Areva.<br><br>My belief is that Peak Oil is real. Nuclear power was expected to make oil obsolete. Lewis Strauss's prediction in 1954 that it would make energy too cheap to meter was a shot across the bow to the oil industry, but likely not something they didn't already see coming. The oil industry, with collusion from the auto industry and the US government devised a strategy they believed would use up the known supply of oil by the end of the century. Part of the plan was to make money from the black stuff while it still had value, the alternate upside was likely also to use it up to build 1st world infrastructure while denying it to the 3rd. Then, once it was gone, you either had the tech and infrastructure to build, use, and protect nuclear power or you lived in mud huts. (I'm paraphrasing a lot of old study here. I apologize for the lack of sources.)<br><br>Apparently, they were off in their predictions in the amount of available oil. But some additional incentives to increase consumption in the West and some 11th hour help from the Chinese is putting us over the Peak (I'm not sure if Peak was a concept in the 1950's, it seemed more like they were looking for a the bottom of the well) near schedule. Unfortunately, nuclear power is not going to fulfill on its promise. Maybe that was the plan all along. Maybe other interests sabotaged nuclear to coopt the above conspiracy to promote their own global agenda. Thay might be a good question for future historians to figure out.<br> <p></p><i></i>

[prophetlady]

a crash is a crash, whether it results in a soft or a hard landing. Whether it be an end of the world scenario, or an end of the world as we know it scenario, it's still going to be very difficult to get through. Some won't make it through either way. And I don't think any of us can afford to sit back and be reactive, hoping the other guy is going to fix it and make it better for us. I think this is a case where "they" are going to deal the cards, and we're going to have to try to make the best possible hand we can make, of just simply fold.<br><br>I'm frustrated by not knowing what we can REALLY DO to prepare, or to head off the problem, or to cope with it when it becomes our reality. I guess I refuse to believe that we can't collectively DO something. I've read and heard so many great suggestions, but they all seem so . . . temporary.<br><br>Peak Oil just makes rational, logical sense to me. And I don't see any huge leaps toward alternatives that are going to help us all through it. A select few, maybe, but not everyone. Whether it is a predesigned population reduction strategy, or whether it will just randomly reduce population as a result, I can't quite make up my mind if I want to fight through it or not. Does anyone else feel that way?<br><br> <p></p><i></i>

[scollon]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I'm frustrated by not knowing what we can REALLY DO to prepare, or to head off the problem<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>We</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> don't make decisions or change things, we never have and probably never will. They do. So for me it's a matter of looking after oneself. <p></p><i></i>

[Iroquois]

Reading through my own post, I realized an idea that seems obvious, but I somehow managed to avoid until now. Jeff's basic premise, I believe, about Peak Oil is that it is a reality, but some core group of the PTB has an ubertech energy device to keep them powered while the engine that runs the rest of civilization starts to falter and die for lack of fuel. In a way, that sounds a lot like what I believed the 1st world set out to do with nuclear power to the 3rd world 50 years ago.<br><br>I suppose I'm partly sold by the fact that it happens to so perfectly parallel the theory (that I also agree with) that some inner circle of the PTB promoted the neo-con agenda to use the US to conquer the neo-liberal institutions and the 3rd world but sabotaged it in such a way to lead to the destruction of the US in the process, guarunteeing their uncontested domination. <p></p><i></i>

[darkbeforedawn]

You say you can't make up your mind whether you want to fight through it or not. What is the alternative? Move to New Zealand? I am sure they will be there too. Or are you just advocating voluntary dieoff? I suppose we could start collection seeds for growing something or another, maybe even get some chickens, and think about cutting firewood? Ruppert suggests (and I by no means see him as the GReat White Hope) that we get to know our neighbors and create "community"--I'm not sure exactly how that would help--but it sounds good. One thing is certain, the collapse is on the agenda. Probably many of us will not make it through. So enjoy life as much as you can in the mean time <p></p><i></i>

[IMO]

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Peak Oil just makes rational, logical sense to me. And I don't see any huge leaps toward alternatives that are going to help us all through it.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> What doesnt actually make any sense to me is how it comes to pass that anyone who proposes free energy ends up dead.<br><br> Exactly how does your logic work with regards to that ?<br><br> I'll tell you how it works.<br><br> In exactly the same way that those who say 9/11 was conducted independent of wealthy powerful interests. <br><br> Its a denial thing. <p></p><i></i>

[Bismillah]

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"What doesnt actually make any sense to me is how it comes to pass that anyone who proposes free energy ends up dead."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Imo, I hate to break it to you, but<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>everyone</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> ends up dead, even if they don't propose free energy. That makes very little sense, but it happens. <br><br>In the meantime, here in Germany, several firms are making a good living producing solar panels. Not to mention (as many people have) the nuclear power stations dotted all round the world. <p></p><i></i>