Congratulations, Stupid.

[JackRiddler]

Well I don't know what it would have been - no one does. It's a counterfactual that we can only speculate about

Well you brought it up as a point!

There is only one non-counterfactual that I see: Trump lost the popular vote and wins only thanks to EC.

.

[OP ED]

JackRiddler wrote:

PS- On the other hand, brekin, Ethan Coen is a great illustration of blind neoliberal stupidity. Metaphors are not arguments. Pop-psychology is not an empirical science.

I don't know if it is necessarily blind or stupidity. I'm assuming he has more access and insight in to how "things really work", (even if he's not a reader of RI, ha ha) His milieu is probably much more revealing and would reinforce his ideology. He makes CIA vanity films with George Clooney and Tom Hanks. If he thinks this was a major fuck up, that makes you think, doesn't it?

The threads move so fast these days.

It's always pleasant to be lectured by millionaires who make their living glorifying violence about social responsibility.

Maybe you should have listened to somebody, hey, Mr. Green?

green
[green]

adjective, greener, greenest.
1.of the color of growing foliage, between yellow and blue in the spectrum:
green leaves.
2.covered with herbage or foliage; verdant:
green fields.
3.characterized by the presence of verdure.
4.made of green vegetables, as lettuce, spinach, endive, or chicory:
a green salad.
5.not fully developed or perfected in growth or condition; unripe; not properly aged:
This peach is still green.
6.unseasoned; not dried or cured:
green lumber.
7.immature in age or judgment; untrained; inexperienced:
a green worker.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/green

The shame/derision "we know better than you" approach to strengthening the party of capitulation sure is working out well, isn't it?

Building a more perfect Union, one Facebook post at a time.

Several times over the years I have been reminded of why I find the Democrats so distasteful, but the frothing hatred spewed this last week has really driven home how remarkably compromised the organization and its faithful have become and also how appallingly comfortable they are with this reality.

HRC couldn't even motivate the people that always vote for her party to support her. She lost for this reason and no other. Or maybe not, there's some evidence that she might even have won, and could have looked into the very possible rigging in swing States, if she cared to, if she wasn't just prepared to make kissy face with the new Imperial overlords. Why would she not fight this? I don't know. But that she hasn't even mentioned these frauds is evidence of the same disconnect that keeps driving people like myself away. Or maybe not a disconnect. Maybe she really doesn't care.

Either way it doesn't bode well for the idiots who keep insisting we all vote for them, or else.

If the other side decided yours didn't win, your side goes "okay guys, let's all come together now". Real nice.

The party is running warhawks. These are in exact opposition to what many of us expect. As long as this continues they should NEVER count on my vote. If the price for this is two steps backwards on two or three wedge issues then we must be prepared to pay. I will feel less personal comfort under the other side perhaps, possibly even finding myself out in the streets again, but I don't have the ability to ignore this like so many of you seem to do so easily. Trump has certainly talked a great bullshit game about how warlike he will be, but the others already have blood on their hands and the recent memory of their confrontational approach with Russia is deeply concerning. (I would rather live under Putin than have a hot war with Russia, but I won't get a seat in the bunker with Coen or Dunham, so maybe I am just being selfish)This makes them at best indistinguishable in terms of foreign policy, at worst it makes one side hypocrites.

Does that make me an accelerationist? I concede it might. The system as existing needs removed almost in its entirety.. I am often not in agreement with the progressive wing of the actual left on this issue, but I don't have eighty years to wait and see if the democrats will stop talking about someday discussing imminent threats like climate change or economic inequality and actually do anything other than utter platitudes.

Leftists won't automatically vote for a Party that's only .5% left of Rupert Murdoch. Not ever. Want my vote, adopt a left position or two on something that wasn't mainstream fifty years ago.

Oh and yes, I am maximum punk rock. I am so punk rock that I don't even listen to punk rock, I just steal the albums.

[Joe Hillshoist]

Look, a Green candidate is never going to be president. Ever.
I know that sounds pessimistic but the fact is there are not enough people who identify as Green, or ever will.
(But if they only knew how things work, if they got educated, blah blah, Not going to happen. If it worked that way no one would smoke or get the clap.)

Why don't people understand that some of the most dangerous people in the world, are the ones who are for wonderful things, and believe in them, but don't have the pragmatic brains to even pull even one of the off?
A vote for a green candidate is a vote for Abraham Lincoln at this point. It is useless.
In fact, it is worse than useless as we see in key battleground states it got a fascist in the White House.
Its like some simple logic puzzle some people can't solve.*

Clearly some people are too stupid to vote. Maybe you should control or approve their vote for them. That might help stop fascism,

[brekin]

JackRiddler wrote:

PS- On the other hand, brekin, Ethan Coen is a great illustration of blind neoliberal stupidity. Metaphors are not arguments. Pop-psychology is not an empirical science.

I don't know if it is necessarily blind or stupidity. I'm assuming he has more access and insight in to how "things really work", (even if he's not a reader of RI, ha ha) His milieu is probably much more revealing and would reinforce his ideology. He makes CIA vanity films with George Clooney and Tom Hanks. If he thinks this was a major fuck up, that makes you think, doesn't it?

The threads move so fast these days.

It's always pleasant to be lectured by millionaires who make their living glorifying violence about social responsibility.

Maybe you should have listened to somebody, hey, Mr. Green?

green
[green]

adjective, greener, greenest.
1.of the color of growing foliage, between yellow and blue in the spectrum:
green leaves.
2.covered with herbage or foliage; verdant:
green fields.
3.characterized by the presence of verdure.
4.made of green vegetables, as lettuce, spinach, endive, or chicory:
a green salad.
5.not fully developed or perfected in growth or condition; unripe; not properly aged:
This peach is still green.
6.unseasoned; not dried or cured:
green lumber.
7.immature in age or judgment; untrained; inexperienced:
a green worker.

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/green

The shame/derision "we know better than you" approach to strengthening the party of capitulation sure is working out well, isn't it?
Building a more perfect Union, one Facebook post at a time.
Several times over the years I have been reminded of why I find the Democrats so distasteful, but the frothing hatred spewed this last week has really driven home how remarkably compromised the organization and its faithful have become and also how appallingly comfortable they are with this reality.
HRC couldn't even motivate the people that always vote for her party to support her. She lost for this reason and no other. Or maybe not, there's some evidence that she might even have won, and could have looked into the very possible rigging in swing States, if she cared to, if she wasn't just prepared to make kissy face with the new Imperial overlords. Why would she not fight this? I don't know. But that she hasn't even mentioned these frauds is evidence of the same disconnect that keeps driving people like myself away. Or maybe not a disconnect. Maybe she really doesn't care.
Either way it doesn't bode well for the idiots who keep insisting we all vote for them, or else.
If the other side decided yours didn't win, your side goes "okay guys, let's all come together now". Real nice.
The party is running warhawks. These are in exact opposition to what many of us expect. As long as this continues they should NEVER count on my vote. If the price for this is two steps backwards on two or three wedge issues then we must be prepared to pay. I will feel less personal comfort under the other side perhaps, possibly even finding myself out in the streets again, but I don't have the ability to ignore this like so many of you seem to do so easily. Trump has certainly talked a great bullshit game about how warlike he will be, but the others already have blood on their hands and the recent memory of their confrontational approach with Russia is deeply concerning. (I would rather live under Putin than have a hot war with Russia, but I won't get a seat in the bunker with Coen or Dunham, so maybe I am just being selfish)This makes them at best indistinguishable in terms of foreign policy, at worst it makes one side hypocrites.
Does that make me an accelerationist? I concede it might. The system as existing needs removed almost in its entirety.. I am often not in agreement with the progressive wing of the actual left on this issue, but I don't have eighty years to wait and see if the democrats will stop talking about someday discussing imminent threats like climate change or economic inequality and actually do anything other than utter platitudes. Leftists won't automatically vote for a Party that's only .5% left of Rupert Murdoch. Not ever. Want my vote, adopt a left position or two on something that wasn't mainstream fifty years ago.
Oh and yes, I am maximum punk rock. I am so punk rock that I don't even listen to punk rock, I just steal the albums.

Am I to blame because you lost all your facebook friends?
Let me explain this to you. I think this will help. You've lost all credibility.
You'd rather live under Putin than have a hot war? The existing system needs to be removed entirely? The dems weren't doing enough for climate change or economic equality?
This is how far you have to spin things to justify your assist into the Dark Ages?
Your vision of American progress is for it to be in smoky ruins with Russian tanks coming in so you and your Green friends can work on a Yam gulag.
Got it. Yeah the Dems weren't moving fast enough, accelerating to the abyss fast enough for you in that direction.
Its like saying somebody should do something about the neighbor guy who is beating his wife or nothing will change.
So you bought him a gun.

Congratulations, everything went according to plan.
You sent your message!
Message received.
You voted and got your brand new Green Day!

Look, a Green candidate is never going to be president. Ever.
I know that sounds pessimistic but the fact is there are not enough people who identify as Green, or ever will.
(But if they only knew how things work, if they got educated, blah blah, Not going to happen. If it worked that way no one would smoke or get the clap.)

Why don't people understand that some of the most dangerous people in the world, are the ones who are for wonderful things, and believe in them, but don't have the pragmatic brains to even pull even one of the off?
A vote for a green candidate is a vote for Abraham Lincoln at this point. It is useless.
In fact, it is worse than useless as we see in key battleground states it got a fascist in the White House.
Its like some simple logic puzzle some people can't solve.*

Clearly some people are too stupid to vote. Maybe you should control or approve their vote for them. That might help stop fascism,

Finally, someone talking some sense! In nice short sentences. Yes, that might just have helped stop fascism.

We know I would have had to put the kibosh on OP ED's.

But tell me Joe, how did your vote go to stop fascism?
Hey Joe, where you goin' with that ballot of yours?
Hey Joe, I said where you goin' with that ballot in your hand, oh

[OP ED]

I never had "credibility". Pleasing you isn't the sole purpose of my actions. Nor is being " credible" on Facebook. I also didn't lose any friends. My friends aren't that shallow.

You vote for appearances. The appearance of progression. The appearance of environmental responsibility. The appearance of anti-fascism. And you get exactly what you vote for, the appearance of someone caring about your concerns. You get music videos and platitudes about your rights, meanwhile more brown people dig graves to finance your view of yourself and how pragmatic you are.

Drone strikes for freedom!

[JackRiddler]

Joe is in Australia, which means he does not get to vote in the U.S., although the U.S. gets to vote on him. He's also correct in what he says. brekin your post with that song is out of line.

[OP ED]

He still should have voted for Hillary

[brekin]

I never had "credibility". Pleasing you isn't the sole purpose of my actions. Nor is being " credible" on Facebook. I also didn't lose any friends. My friends aren't that shallow.
You vote for appearances. The appearance of progression. The appearance of environmental responsibility. The appearance of anti-fascism. And you get exactly what you vote for, the appearance of someone caring about your concerns. You get music videos and platitudes about your rights, meanwhile more brown people dig graves to finance your view of yourself and how pragmatic you are. Drone strikes for freedom!

I vote for appearances? You voted for the Green Party in Michigan. You got Trump elected dude, because you wanted to appear above and beyond "the two party system". You wanted it to appear that your vote wouldn't contribute to the nasty icky machine. When your vote in reality just put the nasty icky machine into overdrive with that guy from Mad Max in control.

Tell me though, did you get exactly what you voted for?



Post by JackRiddler » Thu Nov 17, 2016 1:17 am

Joe is in Australia, which means he does not get to vote in the U.S., although the U.S. gets to vote on him. He's also correct in what he says. brekin your post with that song is out of line.

Joe is in Australia? Is he Stefano's roommate? Is that where OP ED roomed during his semester abroad? Hard to keep track of everyone. But whatever, Jack. We don't have time to start sticking pins on the world map. First a public service message: There are thousands of people who get in cars each year and recklessly kill innocent bystanders. This year thousands got in voting booths and did basically the same.

I know you don't want to talk about people though. The public. Your more of systems guy. Wait, I know, I know, we'll reform the electoral college, yeah, that will change things. Right after we get the US to go metric. And get all left handers to write with their right hands. But before we square the circle think of all the time you spent trying to convince RI'ers that Clinton was a more rational vote than Trump. I remember way back feeling just discussing Trump was a colossal waste of time, of thought energy, life juice. And now we have to be confronted with thinking about him on a daily even hourly basis for what 4,8, 36 years? And here we are. And its because of some people who just didn't get it. And still don't get it. They might even do it again if given the chance. One even wonders if more time spent on RI might have even contributed to their malady as compared to staring at clouds, or bird watching, or navel gazing. Well, I don't know why I came here tonight. I got the feeling that something ain't right. I'm so scared in case I fall off my chair, And I'm wondering how I'll get down those stairs. Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you.

[dada]

The left surprised me in this election. Far from being angry with them, I'm impressed.

Like Jack, I thought it would be better fighting a Clinton administration. I notice Chomsky had a similar view. But I never 'supported the system,' I don't respect it. Tacit support of Clinton for me was strategy.

So it didn't happen. The left has spoken. I can work with that. I knew as soon as the election was over, it would be time for a strategy change. Unlike 'liberals,' I actually have a liberated mind, open to ideas, working the best I can with all the tools available at any given moment.

All the sound and fury from the democrats is just that. They know they will have to move left, now. But they're not ready to admit it.

My prediction. When social security is swallowed up in the next big financial crash, this 'lecturing' at the left by the democrats will disappear. When democrats have no 'skin in the game,' they'll come around.

Maybe it's what needs to happen. Sad, but I don't see what's going to stop it.

[NeonLX]

Tilting at windmills. Shit is going to get more fucked up until people decide they've had enough. Take back the authority they/we have ceded to "the government".

The NoDAPL protests are giving me real hope. People are putting their goddamned lives on hold to say fuck off to business as usual. I've been supporting them financially, as much as a destitute old clod like me can. I want to drop everything and head to the scene, about 10 hours away. One fucking day, that's it. Easy peasy.

[Rory]

Why does anyone think the libs are going to move left? I don't see it.

As with UK Labour, I see the liberals pivoting right, not left. Spending all their time, energy, and policies on pitching to capture the centre (well, Overton Window shifted former centre right), and mercilessly attacking the left, social democrats, and socialists. The libs will go full blown goosestepping fascist before they even think about working towards building an actual equitable society.

Us sacrifice! For that bunch of scroungers? Yer 'avin a laugh

The Democratic Party branding will not be relinquished to the 'left without a suicidal fight for control. It's done, over, have a nice day.

People are not going to fight back and regain control of government. That ship never even docked at that port, let alone sailed away.

[Searcher08]

What Left is left?
The Clinton Democrats with a corrupt, dead heart? The ones who voted for WW3 because of... words? Neo-liberals "doubling down"

The entitled college millennial Identitarian cult members with their trigger warnings and safe spaces and whose most important things are their 'feels'? Their entire approach to the election has been to learn precisely nothing, just like their neolib stablemates - double down. Scream more, riot like the nationwide riots night after night, just like after Obama got elected when millions of racist white men ground the country to a halt.

John Podesta and Trigglypuff.

What happened to actual socialism?
Like Allende?

[Luther Blissett]

Has anyone worded it this way?

"The vast majority of Americans rejected Trump and trumpism, but he is now our president-elect."

Neoliberals are doubling down, but I am encouraged by the fact that this election has brought some of them into the light. I have some very surprising friends that have told me they are attending our next socialist meeting. People with little political consciousness in their pasts who have slowly been radicalized over the past few years and are now ready for a united front.

[brekin]

Luther, Searcher, Rory, I agree with you mostly.

But to me I don't understand how people can think of this just as a course correction or that now, now, the dems will finally reach out to the working class, progs, etc. or even be able to. How? By running a demagogue like Trump next time? A anti-Obama? And why? Clinton was actually as good as it gets. (Bernie never really had a chance. Obama was seen as bad for business. Can you imagine? How would Bernie then ever get any business backing to run? The dems trying to discreetly get Bernie to sit down was just the equivalent of getting the chainsaw out of grandpas mitts because he wants to go cut firewood in the forest for everyone at thanksgiving dinner. He's not up to the task and he would just end up a bloody mess ruining everyone's thanksgiving for all time.)

Also, the faith that people have in a way back from this is unbelievably pollyanna-like. Especially from the usually so morose disaffected leftists and progressives. Trump took a hammer to the grandfather clock we call democracy, which yeah didn't keep the best time, but he's really fucked it up. And he's just getting started. Why wouldn't he solidify his power in every way imaginable and make it nearly impossible for an opposition to come up? This is a guy who fights dirty, mean, and for the jugular, out in the open. And now he has enormous power. Trumps election has endorsed the politics of hate. Why would the next democratic president be better than any of the previous after all this? It seems they could be as bad or worse than Trump and still win.

[OP ED]

The left surprised me in this election. Far from being angry with them, I'm impressed.

Like Jack, I thought it would be better fighting a Clinton administration. I notice Chomsky had a similar view. But I never 'supported the system,' I don't respect it. Tacit support of Clinton for me was strategy.

So it didn't happen. The left has spoken. I can work with that. I knew as soon as the election was over, it would be time for a strategy change. Unlike 'liberals,' I actually have a liberated mind, open to ideas, working the best I can with all the tools available at any given moment.

All the sound and fury from the democrats is just that. They know they will have to move left, now. But they're not ready to admit it.

My prediction. When social security is swallowed up in the next big financial crash, this 'lecturing' at the left by the democrats will disappear. When democrats have no 'skin in the game,' they'll come around.

Maybe it's what needs to happen. Sad, but I don't see what's going to stop it.

Even with a stake through the heart of the bloodsucking Clinton dynasty, the house they built will be here for at least a few more cycles. Vampires are notoriously difficult to finish.

HRC cared more about getting neoconservative endorsement than appealing to the left. This trend may slow, but it will be some time before it grinds itself out.

.....

So brekin, no comments on the red shift in swing States with Republican leadership?
No thought as to how the exit polls were so wrong?
(They were wrong enough here that certain newspapers called it for Hillary in the early afternoon before I even voted, they were having a party on my block)

I guess acknowledgement of this reality would threaten the integrity of your central thesis, but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. Because it didn't really surprise me. They do this to my state all the time now. Which is one of many reasons I vote how I feel instead of "pragmatically". They don't count them anyway, and even the most powerful person to ever run for President seems unwilling to challenge the obvious theft or even discuss it. Rolled over faster than Gore. Which is in itself an accomplishment I suppose. So much for a vote to stop fascism.