What is #Pizzagate?

[OP ED]

Maybe you joined the wrong troop slomo.

Is slightly discriminate drug use and sex permissable? What are the guidelines for who/what I am allowed to put inside my body anyway?

[82_28]

I feel compelled to write this, so I will. I am a straight guy with a gay dad. I have had gay guys ask me why aren't/can't you be gay? And I make the most hardened of lesbians melt. Not a claim to fame, but I do.

After all, I am the Peace Pony. I utterly hate pornography -- which some don't think is true -- that is fine. Yet I have been implicated in that custody battle thing that (I think my ex now -- don't ask me as I have no idea) that baby daddy submitted court papers saying that I "sleep too close" to their now four year old. Yeah, no, fucking no. But implications and accusations are what they are. Nothing one can do. It is really Kafkaesque and have you stopped beating your wife shit.

Nothing one can do to stave off shit like this. Silence implies guilt and an answer affirmative or negative means you have to answer for something that is totally false. Double Bind!!!

That said, I got no idea about this pizzagate shit simply because I was not there. I probably will not believe the "final outcome" anyhow.

[slomo]

Maybe you joined the wrong troop slomo.

Is slightly discriminate drug use and sex permissable? What are the guidelines for who/what I am allowed to put inside my body anyway?

Discriminate is OK. I draw the line at life-destroying dependency. Like art and pornography, difficult to define, but "you know it when you see it".

Not sure what you mean by "wrong troop". I mostly watched from the sidelines as multiple acquaintances (mostly friends-of-friends) destroyed their lives in a conflagration of boundless hedonism. Didn't seem like a good path to follow, so I mostly didn't. Still, it's easy to see how gay bar culture directly feeds the demons that prey on people like that. It felt wrong when I was 20, and close to 50 I understand much better what I was intuitively perceiving.

[slomo]

Anyway, as I said, makes no difference to me. I'll accept the honorary designation of self-hating homophobic homosexual if it must be bestowed. Hey, baby, I'll be anything you want me to be...

[slomo]

Here's a question: would Tinder ever have come into existence before Grindr paved the way? Is either one of them liberating in any but the basest of ways?

[OP ED]

Maybe you joined the wrong troop slomo.

Is slightly discriminate drug use and sex permissable? What are the guidelines for who/what I am allowed to put inside my body anyway?

Discriminate is OK. I draw the line at life-destroying dependency. Like art and pornography, difficult to define, but "you know it when you see it".

Not sure what you mean by "wrong troop". I mostly watched from the sidelines as multiple acquaintances (mostly friends-of-friends) destroyed their lives in a conflagration of boundless hedonism. Didn't seem like a good path to follow, so I mostly didn't. Still, it's easy to see how gay bar culture directly feeds the demons that prey on people like that. It felt wrong when I was 20, and close to 50 I understand much better what I was intuitively perceiving.

I meant in the boy scouts.

(As if starting fires and tying knots aren't like half of what you need to be a successfully squalid and viceful Satanist anyhow)

...

I don't identify as LGBTQ although I did try and probably more than one person would admit that I am pretty Q by the usual standard.

I don't equate criticism of a cultural subset as inherent hate speech but it is a much more slippery slope than some here seem to be equating homosex and abuse as being. (AOC for example seems to think that media can alter a personal sexual preference toward pedophila, which isn't a claim supported by evidence, quite the opposite)

Homophobia isn't necessarily hate, it is fear. I do see a lot of this as an undercurrent to this topic in general, if especially more elsewhere than here, some of that is only elocution and hedging.

[OP ED]

Here's a question: would Tinder ever have come into existence before Grindr paved the way? Is either one of them liberating in any but the basest of ways?

If the basest can't be free, how can the highest?

Or, as the socialist Thelemites put it: "the broader the base, the higher the apex"

....

Not that I would spend too much time debating the liberative quality of a mobile application.

[tapitsbo]

Gay/queer culture is obviously not essentially/intrinsically an expression of the extremely dark stuff suggested by pizzagate and the other cases/flaps/happenings it overlaps with!

It's conceivable that very sick forces could use it as a "shield" in our climate, just like they could use any other subculture.

And sure, some branches of esoterism involve deliberate trangression that looks unmistakably like abuse, sadism, "evil". This is part of our reality...

American Dream has actually illustrated this pretty well in the past.

The reaction and counterbalancing forces to this "evil" force are obviously valid, though!

my take on guruilla is he saying the extremely dark stuff is a part of all culture, not that all culture is a part of it (maybe I'm overthinking this one)

[slomo]

Maybe you joined the wrong troop slomo.

Is slightly discriminate drug use and sex permissable? What are the guidelines for who/what I am allowed to put inside my body anyway?

Discriminate is OK. I draw the line at life-destroying dependency. Like art and pornography, difficult to define, but "you know it when you see it".

Not sure what you mean by "wrong troop". I mostly watched from the sidelines as multiple acquaintances (mostly friends-of-friends) destroyed their lives in a conflagration of boundless hedonism. Didn't seem like a good path to follow, so I mostly didn't. Still, it's easy to see how gay bar culture directly feeds the demons that prey on people like that. It felt wrong when I was 20, and close to 50 I understand much better what I was intuitively perceiving.

I meant in the boy scouts.

(As if starting fires and tying knots aren't like half of what you need to be a successfully squalid and viceful Satanist anyhow)

...

I don't identify as LGBTQ although I did try and probably more than one person would admit that I am pretty Q by the usual standard.

I don't equate criticism of a cultural subset as inherent hate speech but it is a much more slippery slope than some here seem to be equating homosex and abuse as being. (AOC for example seems to think that media can alter a personal sexual preference toward pedophila, which isn't a claim supported by evidence, quite the opposite)

Homophobia isn't necessarily hate, it is fear. I do see a lot of this as an undercurrent to this topic in general, if especially more elsewhere than here, some of that is only elocution and hedging.

Oh, well, tying knots and starting a fire with just a hand drill are good skills to have. I learned mostly that you should carry matches if you're going to be out in the wilderness for very long.

I agree that criticism of gay culture can become a slippery slope, but people here have mostly been careful. To the extent that bounds have been overstepped, well ... I've seen and lived a lot worse. I would venture to guess that many of the voices here that are just scandalized by anti-gay speech have never actually experienced the real thing, as a target.

[slomo]

my take on guruilla is he saying the extremely dark stuff is a part of all culture, not that all culture is a part of it (maybe I'm overthinking this one)

I think guruilla is saying that gay culture provides a good cover because it has an ethos of tolerance of perverse sexuality in many of its polymorphic forms. And I think he's right about that, to some extent. Other cultures (e.g. that of DC elites) also tolerate unbridled hedonism, so they too may provide good cover. How about the intersection of gay culture with the culture of DC elites?

Again, gay culture =/= gay people. Different things. And to equate them is to strip gay individuals of human dignity. To make this point is why I bothered to step into the conversation anyway.

[Iamwhomiam]

Hard to believe this has gone on for 17 pages. It shouldn't have made it to 3.

Pizzagate is bullshit; a waste of time and a distraction. Pay attention to the names and remember them for future reference. Move on. No basement , no tunnels, no secret pedo pizza code words.

Thank you, Alex Jones. America will remember you & your honeypot always, you fucker.

[Novem5er]

I feel compelled to write this, so I will. I am a straight guy with a gay dad. I have had gay guys ask me why aren't/can't you be gay? And I make the most hardened of lesbians melt. Not a claim to fame, but I do.

After all, I am the Peace Pony. I utterly hate pornography -- which some don't think is true -- that is fine. Yet I have been implicated in that custody battle thing that (I think my ex now -- don't ask me as I have no idea) that baby daddy submitted court papers saying that I "sleep too close" to their now four year old. Yeah, no, fucking no. But implications and accusations are what they are. Nothing one can do. It is really Kafkaesque and have you stopped beating your wife shit.

Nothing one can do to stave off shit like this. Silence implies guilt and an answer affirmative or negative means you have to answer for something that is totally false. Double Bind!!!

That said, I got no idea about this pizzagate shit simply because I was not there. I probably will not believe the "final outcome" anyhow.

Hang in there, bud!

[barracuda]

guruilla is saying that gay culture provides a good cover because it has an ethos of tolerance of perverse sexuality in many of its polymorphic forms. And I think he's right about that

Tolerance of child bondage and torture? Provides good cover for kill rooms to blood-let kidnapped kids? Let's not forget, that's the context here.

Interesting perspective.

Listen, imma let you finish, but everything "gay culture" knows about perversity they learned from the heteros, who did it all first and worse. When modern gay culture was still in hiding, there were already swinger's clubs, dungeons, and whorehouses dotting cities, towns, and villages across United States. Legal. And I'm not even starting on the British.

The vast majority of child molesters are heterosexual males, and the vast majority of them molest male children. I wonder if many of them would find any comfort or cover in a gay cultural setting.

I don't think it's going out on a limb to say that much of the United States is not a particularly welcoming place to be gay, especially around children. And yet the folks giving out the rectal feedings down in Gitmo are likely all straight dudes. But don't ask, don't tell.

I'll accept the honorary designation of self-hating homophobic homosexual if it must be bestowed.

Sorry, that title cannot be given, it must be earned.

[stefano]

If the basest can't be free, how can the highest?

Or, as the socialist Thelemites put it: "the broader the base, the higher the apex"

Nice one. Thanks.

[kool maudit]

Once this line of inquiry was semi-successfully attached to "hate speech," it died on the RI vine I think. Such is the taboo-hierarchy.