Michael W. Smith--Christian Pop Star/Satanist?

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Dogmatism? Speculation? Which is it?

Postby robertdreed » Sun May 28, 2006 5:27 am

How about providing a real analogy, instead of a hypothetical one? <p></p><i></i>
robertdreed
 
Posts: 1560
Joined: Wed May 18, 2005 11:14 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Smitty's "Secret Ambition"? Say it ain't so!

Postby mr e » Sun May 28, 2006 9:00 am

To discover that the wholesome MWS is a secret satanist is on a par with discovering that Daryl Hall was/is an admirer of Aleister Crowley. (Yeah, I know, Hall isn't a "Christian" singer, but he's not exactly Ozzy or Jimmy Page.) But then, I guess anything is possible and nothing shocks me any more. <br><br>My impression of MWS: From what I do know of his ouvre, I respect the guy as a singer and songwriter. (Particularly, I like his early '80s material, before he went all Peter Cetera.) As an intern for a small Christian mag about 11 yrs ago, I met and briefly interviewed him during a gi-normous stadium tour with Amy, Steven Curtis Chapman and others. He seemed to be real nice, down-to-earth guy who loved to talk about his family and getting his hands dirty at his farm, stuff like that. He had to be pulled away by his press handler, probably to talk to more "important" media than myself. (Amy's handlers, by contrast, informed me that she would not be granting interviews or photo ops -- "she has to catch a plane right after the show" -- which, I later discovered, was not the case.) <br><br>I also had a couple of female friends in high school who went to a Smitty show, then afterward managed to find his hotel room and engage him in a pretty long conversation (with others present). From these encounters, I gather that he is, or at least was, not the egotistical type.<br><br>But a secret Luciferian? As I said, anything's possible. He could be an evil minion of the Evil One. <br><br>Or, he could simply have been into, say, Tolkien (widely regarded as a Christian writer, and a friend of C.S. Lewis) and adapted mystical ancient symbolism to express the Christmas story of a transcendent God (T) condescending to live among mankind (M). While I as a Christian I don't necessarily agree with it, such adaptation of pagan symbolism by Christians has been going on from at least the second century onward. <br><br>I think if we really wanted to speculate, we could note that Amy and Mike go way back -- he was once a songwriter, keyboardist and later opening act for her. Did the two of them ever get "a bit too friendly" in a tour bus or motel room? Is the pope Catholic? <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :lol --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
mr e
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:52 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Smitty's "Secret Ambition"? Say it ain't so!

Postby Dreams End » Sun May 28, 2006 10:03 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And they would be acting (believe it or not) on the mere wisp of a rumor. Apparently though, some RI posters would be accusing them of paranoia and unscientific 'superstition'.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>So do you have NO standards whatsoever to make some discernment as to what is true or not? And since it's not Attila headed in this direction but speculation on Christian pop stars and large shipwrecks from the distant past, I'd say you can probably tell the villagers to chill out. <p></p><i></i>
Dreams End
 

Re: Smitty's "Secret Ambition"? Say it ain't so!

Postby AlicetheCurious » Sun May 28, 2006 11:07 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>These might be some interesting conversations to have but there are any number of people who very aggressively and very strangely overshoot that entire objective, then rush all the way to the end of a discussion that has never even had the chance to take place...and then authoritatively declare that any conclusion...that's right, any conclusion...would be absolutely absurd. ?<br><br>It's what I refer to as (I'm copyrighting this) Prematurely Conclusive Inconclusivity.<br><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I hear you, Rothbardian. You've hit the nail right on the head. I also find it very odd when one of us hears a false note, or notices some incongruous detail, so puts it up on the board to explore the subject with others, only to attract certain (cough!) "debunkers" who, rather than making thoughtful or informative contributions, deride and dismiss the very idea that there SHOULD be such a discussion.<br><br>These "debunkers" use methods more consistent with intimidation and disruption than with persuasion.<br><br>I don't understand that. Who has time to read every single post on the board? Not me. I only tend to read, let alone respond to, those that pique my interest. If someone is engaging in what I perceive to be a silly or irrelevant subject, well, I don't go there. If anyone else finds the subject worth exploring, be my guest.<br><br>But to keep returning and posting, and going on and on about how POINTLESS the discussion is, and how it ALL MEANS NOTHING...If the discussion itself is pointless, then how "pointful" is a discussion about the discussion?<br><br>Like I said before, it seems a little odd to me. <p></p><i></i>
AlicetheCurious
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:45 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

The Zero Probability Sheriffs

Postby rothbardian » Sun May 28, 2006 6:13 pm

DreamsEnd--<br><br>No standards? I didn't say anything like that. That's an interesting 'straw man' you erect. <br><br>Not sure what your comments aiming at. I was simply responding to the dangerous, impractical illogic of this statement (<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"Reasonable people don't believe things just because they are possibly true."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->). The statement is false.<br><br>You say: <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"...it's not Attila headed in this direction...".</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> There <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>is</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> a threat headed our direction, DE. There <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>are</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> evil people conspiring to dominate the world and place us under totalitarian rule.<br><br>When you declare <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"...you can probably tell the villagers to chill out."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> --are you again, becoming the mediator as to what does or does not have "zero probability"?<br><br>Compare these two statements-- <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"There is zero probability that Bush/Cheney perpetrated 9/11...you goofy flat-earther."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> and... <br><br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>"There is zero probability that SRA and MK-Ultra advocates have secretly inserted mind control victims into conservative evangelical organizations for infiltration and control purposes...you wacky paranoid."</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Did you see Wolfmoon Lady's post? ("Pastors as enforcers for FEMA?") <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://p216.ezboard.com/frigorousintuitionfrm10.showMessage?topicID=4507.topic">p216.ezboard.com/frigorou...4507.topic</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <br><br><br>Alice the Curious--<br><br>Thanks for your agreement. I also see that intimidation/bullying thing going on. It is odd. And it does relate a lot to this "zero probability" thing. I like your "false note" comment. Is the RI board suppose to be choir or an energetic idea/debate forum?<br> <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

I have skimmed this thread

Postby Chiaroscuro » Tue May 30, 2006 1:08 am

Please forgive if another already made this point.<br><br>while the evidence is not overwelming it is an interesting anonomly. Does MWSmith belong/associate with those offshoots of christianity where anything remotely associated with non-Christian religion is anathema? I know people of that group. They do not just go nuts over Harry Potter. They were up in arms over Lord of the Rings. Runes would put them over the edge. <p></p><i></i>
Chiaroscuro
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Zero Probability Sheriffs

Postby professorpan » Tue May 30, 2006 1:14 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Is the RI board suppose to be choir or an energetic idea/debate forum?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I'd like to think it's the latter.<br><br>But some people (cough, cough) continue to get pissy and whiny when their ideas are subject to "energetic debate."<br><br>:-) <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
professorpan
 
Posts: 3592
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

The Zero Probability Sheriffs

Postby rothbardian » Tue May 30, 2006 3:34 am

Pan--<br><br>Thanks for keeping this thread alive with your complaints about people's complaints. I thought you had "exited" though(?).<br><br>If you can come up with something more substantial than "that's nuts" or "that's stupid", I'm very interested. I have put some thoughts on this thread in response to snowlion2, you might consider. <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: The Zero Probability Sheriffs

Postby rothbardian » Tue May 30, 2006 5:14 am

<br><br>Chiaroscuro--<br><br>Didn't notice your post right away. In answer to your question: <br><br>As someone who was brought up in this subculture, I can tell you that all of that kind of thing is viewed by the vast majority of fundamentalists as 'evil' (rightly or wrongly). Even though (as was pointed out here) there are many different groups that use 'runes', virtually all of those groups are seen to be under the influence of the same malevolent 'spiritual' forces.<br><br>(Some things are viewed as a 'gray area'-- to watch or not to watch Harry Potter movies is a back-and-forth issue.)<br><br>Now, there may have been some communities who used runes strictly for everyday ordinary use...I don't know. But in the conservative Christian (Bible-believing) community there are a huge number of religions/beliefs/cults (Rosicrucians, Druids etc.) that are viewed as ALL having the same origination point: The cosmic 'bad guys' (also known by the more archaic expression...the Devil and his minions).<br><br>As I said before...you could argue that they have it all wrong but that wasn't the real point of contention in this thread. I was disagreeing with those who were trying to minimize this behavior by saying that this 'runing' could mean anything. It doesn't mean just "anything" in this subculture. Smith's behavior is a shocking, bizarre departure. <br><br>By the way (as a bit of a tangent), one of the things that initially drew me to this website here, was that I saw people like Jeff (the moderator here) and some others, wondering out loud whether there may in fact be malevolent superhuman entities 'out there' somewhere who have unwholesome intentions (based of some of the possible indicators that have been observed by some).<br><br>I have been intrigued by that line of thought/investigation because it falls squarely into my framework of thinking. I have therefore stuck around, to hear more of what people have to contribute on this subject.<br><br> <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Thank you for your reply rothbardian

Postby Chiaroscuro » Wed May 31, 2006 12:28 am

As I mentioned before I know some people who are part of that subculture. I was shocked and amazed when first encountering them. If I forget myself and mention one of the forbidden topics (haloween, harry potter, anything like that) in front of one woman I know she shudders and closes her eyes. Evil forces are always out to get her. This particluar case is sad because the woman is obviously mentally ill and her religion and it's beliefs have taught her that her hallusinations are real. Now I happen to believe there are beings that fit the description of devils and the like depicted in various religions that attempt to interact with humanity. I also believe beings of the opposite spectrum exist and likewise attempt to interact with humanity. The irony with this woman is she was oblivious to an symptoms of a being of the negative spectrum interacting with her while trying to show me things which were not negative as being negative or that simply did not exist. I don't feel comfortable describing details of these events at this time.<br><br>Well back to MWS. It is an anomoly for someone from his background to have anything to do with things that people from his group would call evil. Like you stated these people do not care if it is fiction like Lord of the Rings or cultural myth. Anything which is not of pure Christianity (as they define it) is evil and will lead to even more evil practices. There are Christians which are not paranoid and enjoy Lord of the Rings and let their kids celebrate haloween with trick or treating. I happen to agree with this point of view myself and find them more rational and yet as you said this is not the point. The point is what MWS' professed group believes. Not whether these items are considered harmful by other branches of Christianity. And not whether or not the items are actually harmful. <br><br>This reminds me of how Bush maks the hook 'em horns sign since that is commonly considered a satanic symbol. As a professed born again Christian this is a major anomaly. <p></p><i></i>
Chiaroscuro
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

To summarize--

Postby rothbardian » Wed May 31, 2006 7:23 am

Chiascuro--<br><br>These are some summary thoughts about this thread, so don't take it to be directed solely at you. This is directed to any and all who may be interested, but thanks for your previous comments. You brought up the subject of these 'hook'em horns':<br><br>I have thought that the great number of times George W and his family have flashed the 'horns' has had something to do with thumbing their nose at that small number of us who have surmised what they're really all about (psychopathic evil and apparent occultism). They had two daughters who attended U. of Texas of course, but the number of times they had occasion to flash those horns seem to go well beyond what was called for.<br><br>I had seen Laura Bush, for example, whippin' out the horns after disembarking from the helicopter on the White House lawn...and her daughters were a good thousand miles away at their Texas college. <br><br>I have seen it as something similar to the 'nose-thumbing' Jeff had described from Jeb Bush, who at one point got up in front of the Florida legislature and began blabbering about a personal relationship he supposedly had with a superhuman entity named "Chang". He gave every outward appearance of meaning it very literally.<br><br>But at the risk of incurring wrath, I have noticed what appears to be...a liberal political correctness regimen (on the part of most of those I have encountered) which requires the interpretation that the Bush family and other PTB members mean all of this only as a big prank...that they take none of their occult activities seriously, supposedly. (I don't quite recall Jeff's exact nuance on the Jeb thing, at this point.)<br><br>Skull and Bones? Oh, that's just silly college frat hi-jinks. Bohemian Grove? It's just a kind of Halloween for the power elite...a place where they can 'let their hair down'. Never mind the huge number of reports of brutality and murder from some of the Franklin children and other corroborating eyewitnesses, regarding the Grove.<br><br>(Paul Bonacci, one of the Franklin children, testified of torture and murder taking place at the foot of a giant forty foot owl at a place somewhere near Sacramento, CA. He didn't know where he was and it was quite some time before investigators, including John DeCamp, happened to find out about this owl at Bohemian Grove. That made for very strong corroboration and credibility.)<br><br>And never mind that MWSmith's behavior can't be dismissed as a 'prank'. Given the subcultural context, I consider that an absurd notion. This is very shocking, deadly serious, pointedly anti-Christian behavior from a prominent and influential 'Christian' entertainer (with close ties to the Bush family).<br><br>John Decamp, who is very far from being some tinfoil hat paranoid, has reported satanic ritual abuse in connection with the Aks-Ar-Ben crowd in Omaha. These were the rich and powerful of the region, and the Franklin story spread all the way to Washington DC and George Bush Sr.<br><br>So here again we have the power elite taking their occultism/luciferianism very seriously. There was the story, reported by Jeff , of the little girl over in Great Britain, who was 'inexplicably' drawing pictures of the interior of Masonic halls, before she was later ritually murdered. These kinds of stories that indicate a luciferian (or at least a very evil) inner core to various secret societies are cropping up...over and over and over.<br><br>No matter all of that-- we simply cannot have a picture emerging of a worldwide luciferian cult among the world's rich and powerful. According to some sort of political correctness regimen (and for reasons I couldn't immediately fathom), this cannot and must not be.<br><br>I had been puzzled by this and it took me a while to figure out (I think) why there was this curious black-out on the rather spectacular information being offered by a certain "Svali", for example. Or the curious de-emphasizing of Bush Sr.'s connection to the overt Satanism involved with the Franklin scandal. <br><br>Or the firestorm of controversy here at RI when a Time magazine cover photo of Pat Robertson was produced, where he was flashing a secret (or almost secret) Masonic hand sign, the "Lion's Paw"...the ominous secretiveness of it made even more ominous in view of Robertson's explicit denunciation of Freemasonry, throughout the years.<br><br>This consternation really threw me for a loop. I was thinking that anti-Bush folks and liberals would be deliriously happy to find out these 'evangelicals ' were even creepier than was first imagined. To my surprise though, libs here and a number of other places I have occasion to encounter them, did not welcome these reports of covert occultism at all...and were in fact very unhappy and very disconcerted.<br><br>I think I have surmised what this is all about-- my working conclusion is that these ancient manuscripts which comprise the so-called Bible would have to therefore be viewed as having accurately predicted a worldwide luciferian quest for world domination...and as having made these predictions, thousands of years before the fact.<br><br>This then would also call into play the entire array of 'Biblical' scenarios. For certain mindsets, this cannot and must not be. But why not? I am guessing people are afraid of getting 'Christian cooties' and can't separate out those issues long enough to take a long hard and intellectually honest look at whether there is indeed remarkably accurate information to be found here.<br><br>I honestly believe there may be a fear of having to maybe eventually come to inadvertent agreement with the 'reprehensible' likes of say, Jerry Falwell. If these ancient manuscripts have accurately foretold events thousands of years in advance, what to do? <br><br>I say forget about Jerry Falwell. When I see a Falwell or a Robertson with their chubby, greasy paws clasped around a twenty-two pound edition of the "Good Book" I think of the Planet of the Apes (of all things):<br><br>In that story, the monkeys had come into possession of some very valuable and historically significant artifacts. But they didn't know the true significance of them and thus they approached these things with syrupy religious veneration and superstition. It was the 'astronauts' that were finally able unravel the mystery, with their insights. <br><br>I say it's time to take the artifacts (these ancient manuscripts) back from the monkeys.<br><br>These manuscripts are by all rights, very very interesting, just from the standpoint alone of what they describe of a powerful luciferian cabal bent on world domination and...the descriptions of these malevolent beings (and how accurately it is echoed in these modern day reports). <br><br>I think we need some 'astronauts' to step in here. You need to approach this subject matter independently of the religious veneration stuff and the superstition, the quavering organ music and all the weird religious culture that has overgrown this whole thing. Is it actually true that malevolent superhuman entities have set upon the human race with murderous intentions? If the 'manuscripts' have accurately described and foretold these things...then it also describes a Head Honcho (of the intergalactic variety) who is coming up right on the heels of all of that, to shut it all down. Great news, if true.<br><br>I dare to theorize aggressively like this because I have been told (even by those at this board who strike me as routine 'naysayers') that this is the place for putting ideas and theories on the table. These are some working conclusions that I have formed at this point, and as with any working conclusion it needs to be subject to any and all scrutiny. I could go into much greater detail as to just how many accurate predictions/statements I have come across in these 'ancient manuscripts' but..enough for now. <br> <p></p><i></i>
rothbardian
 
Posts: 659
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 11:08 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: To summarize--

Postby professorpan » Wed May 31, 2006 12:00 pm

Roth, you wouldn't be the first to suggest that a war in Heaven and Earth, taking place in our current era, was predicted in the Bible.<br><br>I don't agree with it literally, but I do think it makes a lot of sense metaphorically. Which is how I view the Hebrew and Christian scriptures -- as stories, metaphors, and philosophies.<br><br>And there are other eschatologies that synch up pretty closely to current events -- the Hopi, for one.<br><br>My thinking is that end-times prophecies are externalizations of our own fears of death. Every monotheistic religion I've studied deals in one way or another with the end of historical time, whether it's Hebrew, Christian, Hindu, or Buddhist (though Buddhists put forth a cyclical death/rebirth). <br><br>There's room for historical synchronicity, too. And in a worldview where psi exists, one would expect prophets to hit the mark on occasion.<br><br>My concern with Christian eschatology is that it has fallen into the hands of dangerous people. Some hardcore believers insist that a nuclear war is inevitable -- even desirable. Some believe that the degradation of the biosphere is nothing to worry about, because Jesus will fix everything. Others see a holy war between the U.S. and the Muslim world as the flashpoint that will bring back Jesus to reign over the world.<br><br>So while I have no problems with your views, I do have concerns about large groups of people embracing the extreme edge of Christian eschatology -- particularly to push repressive political agendas.<br><br>I'd definitely like to hear more of your ideas. I've always been fascinated with Christian end-times prophecies. <p></p><i></i>
User avatar
professorpan
 
Posts: 3592
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 12:17 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

I can only speak for myself

Postby Chiaroscuro » Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:44 am

for a long time i dismissed such things because I saw no evidence of them myself nor was aware of evidence from people or a group I was willing to trust. Frankly to a liberal leaning person like myself the rantings of people like falwell and robertson cause me to dismiss anything they have to say. Aditionally it is just feakin scary to think of such things as santanic worship as being anything more than a few nuts killing poor cats in a far away area. Worse to think of such forces actually existing beyond the minds of the mentally ill. it is only with reading independent accounts of abuses that forced to be admit such things could be organized. Also realising that what better way to ensure abuse is not punished than to do outrageous things like mimic devil worship because so few would belive the victim. beliving in evil beyond human evil was not necessary to conclude abuse occurs, only that the abuser believed or found it a conveninet way of prevent prosecution. and later it was encountering odd phenomina first positive and later brushing against a negative happening made me confront the fears that cause children to hide under their covers from the monsters under the bed. it is easier to continue to deny there might be something to such fears and a seed of truth to myths than face it and then wonder what if anything one might do to defend oneself.<br><br>I think some of this might be at work with others in dismiss these things. it is one thing to say someone like W is a dirty rotten scoundrel. it is another to seriously say hook 'em horns isn't just a salute to his favorite collage sports team. it boggels the mind. and it further boggels it to contemplate there might be substance underneith the mumbo jumbo.<br><br>i agree it is needed to seperate the wheat from the chaff among the various world myths covering these posabilities. what is fact, what is fiction. What is turth, what is disinfo, what is honest, well meaning misunderstanding.<br><br>in the end as jeff once said it does not matter if those who practice these negative religions are true belivers or simply using the assets they aquire from taking part. the methods are bad and the results are bad. that is reason enough to oppose them.<br><br>i admit to being sceptical of endtimes type beliefs. just about every age since the time of Jesus had groups, some large some small, awaiting the end. many in europe thought the waves of black plague were the begining of the end. also it was interesting how the fear of the end times coming temporally let up and was replaced by Y2K panic for a few years until 9/11 brought on a new widespread wave of fear.<br><br>just rambling thoughts.... <p></p><i></i>
Chiaroscuro
 
Posts: 49
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2006 3:48 am
Blog: View Blog (0)

Interesting site realted to all this

Postby yathrib » Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:52 pm

Basically, demons are everywhere according to these folks. And don't wear paisley around them!<br><br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.demonbuster.com/index2.html">www.demonbuster.com/index2.html</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
yathrib
 
Posts: 1880
Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Previous

Return to Media and Information Technology

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests