Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

[minime]

Barbra

[SonicG]

I would think we would all agree that the nature of technology is rewiring the way in which people perceive and think about the world at an alarming rate. Saying, well, this didn't happen 100 years ago. An egotistical reality TV star has never been elected president before!. ..we are entering entirely unprecedented waters...deeper and deeper

I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked,
dragging themselves through the negro streets at dawn looking for an angry fix,
angelheaded hipsters burning for the ancient heavenly connection to the starry dynamo in the machinery of night,
who poverty and tatters and hollow-eyed and high sat up smoking in the supernatural darkness of cold-water flats floating across the tops of cities contemplating jazz,
who bared their brains to Heaven under the El and saw Mohammedan angels staggering on tenement roofs illuminated,
who passed through universities with radiant cool eyes hallucinating Arkansas and Blake-light tragedy among the scholars of war,
who were expelled from the academies for crazy & publishing obscene odes on the windows of the skull,
who cowered in unshaven rooms in underwear, burning their money in wastebaskets and listening to the Terror through the wall,

There are plenty of things to be questioning here...The MM is desperately searching for "sense" and will eventually write this off as "plain old crazy...inherited from his father..."

Back to things...The prostitute? he numbers were just "phone numbers"? I thought I heard they were calculations for trajectories etc...

[Heaven Swan]

Stickdog wrote:

Despite what Hollywood would have us believe, killing dozens of strangers for no reason and then killing yourself is still not within the boundaries rational behavior in our culture. It is the very definition of sociopathic insanity. Yes, some people get twisted enough to get sexual pleasure out rape and/or murder and thus become serial killers. But these people want to keep themselves alive and killing. And yes, "terrorism" is label that the powerful have given to asymmetric warfare, which is of course a historical fact. And yes, some powerless males become desperate and suicidal enough that they create fantasies of taking out others with them as part of their suicide "missions" in one final plea for power and relevance, and a very small minority of these heinous losers actually enact such fantasies to thunderous mass media applause.

Wow Stick. And I thought I've been plagued by bouts of naïveté, but your reasoning is almost beyond belief in its' blind faith in the clearly psycho.

No way he could do it because he amassed some money and property? And you post a Daily Mail article quoting a prostituted woman who says he enacted rape fantasies with her and bragged about his bad blood to bolster your argument?

Just wow. I guess my original intuition about this thread was spot on. For me the extreme nature of this attack has led me to a critical mass in my thinking and to doubt my past assumptions. In the first days of reading the thread I had the impression that the immediate jumping onto this as a clear strategy of tension event seemed like a way to shield and run interference for yet another misogynistic super-perpetrator and obscure the rust and rot of the crumbling anti life-on-Earth patriarchal infrastructure.

The one thing the mass shooters all have in common is a history of domestic violence or reported abusive behavior towards women.

Face the facts Stick. This country has devolved into sickness on a massive scale. The majority of American men regularly bathe their psyches and train their sexual responsiveness with sadistic,violent pornography. Look who's president Stick. Sorry to say that the bastion of so called good, normal behavior you refer to is no longer a reference point.

Get some rest. I sense some sincerity in your postings. This event may be some kind of a tipping point.

[JackRiddler]

Heaven Swan, great post. Agreed. I'm not going to get into discussing "majority" on things that cannot be known because we're not privy to everyone's mind, you know. But it's a description of where we are, very much.

Yet what's interesting about the spun quoted matter from stick is one can actually agree with each of those statements in order, and the end result is about 20-50 mass shooters a year.

[Iamwhomiam]

What are the odds, stickdog, that an RI contributor would lose their only son to a mass murderer who had absolutely no history of mental health issues?

Please pursue your theory, but for goodness sake, you cannot prove this was anything more than a lone "nutter." You have no evidence that it was anything more, so stop trying to have Jack prove something you cannot disprove.

There could be several reasons he would want to end his life this way and most of us would say none of those would be rational, but rational people do not commit mass murder unless they're working for our government as warriors of our armed forces. And afterwards, many of them do commit suicide because ultimately, they cannot rationalize the murderous acts they've witnessed or engaged in.

Paddock could have wanted to outdo his father in notoriety, and if that's the case, he's succeeded.

But let's not forget his recent bookings in other locales - he was shopping for just the right moment at just the right place, which is eerily similar to the man who killed my son, so there's that commonality between these two mass murderers; long in the planning.

I only listened to AJ to the first commercial break, but if you listen for those few minutes, you'll hear AJ state "news" that Paddock had been turned to become a Muslim sympathizer by his Muslim wife, which I thought you'd appreciate, or at least mention, so I guess you didn't listen to it.

So, would it be fair for me to ask you to point out for us what the shooters in the last 300 mass murders shootings had in common? You know, those that took place over this past year. Is there any commonality at all between shooters, and if so, which ones and why?

Did you at least listen to the Opperman report?

Edited to add: "issues" & "?" to first sentence. Added strike-through, to correct misstatement.

[Elvis]

I've appreciated the contributions from everyone in this thread, and thanks, folks, for keeping it civil. Love you all.

No way he could do it because he amassed some money and property? And you post a Daily Mail article quoting a prostituted woman who says he enacted rape fantasies with her and bragged about his bad blood to bolster your argument?

Whether or not he was responsible for this crime, and assuming the anacdotes about his treatment of women are true, I would venture to say that Mr. Paddock was neither contented nor rich. Sure he had money, but his real poverty was stark.

The majority of American men regularly bathe their psyches and train their sexual responsiveness with sadistic,violent pornography.

Sorry to depart from the immediate topic, but — Truly? Is there data showing this?

[Project Willow]

Just wow. I guess my original intuition about this thread was spot on. For me the extreme nature of this attack has led me to a critical mass in my thinking and to doubt my past assumptions. In the first days of reading the thread I had the impression that the immediate jumping onto this as a clear strategy of tension event seemed like a way to shield and run interference for yet another misogynistic super-perpetrator and obscure the rust and rot of the crumbling anti life-on-Earth patriarchal infrastructure.

Who is it that you think profits from, directs, and/or openly aids in building the largest military on earth to conduct wars of slaughter all over the globe for economic and geo-strategical domination other than "misogynistic super-perpetrators"? I don't see any reason whatsoever to create a special separate category just because the shooter may be a lone nut or the victims are US citizens, quite the opposite, what our overlords have done overseas they will do to us at home, it's inevitable. It's already been done, as you know.

I wrote a short article in response to Charlottesville that addresses this very issue. Maybe it's worth a read.
http://bornepress.com/uncle-daddy-nazis-and-fascism-in-the-us/

[Burnt Hill]

It is a great post but a bit condescending towards stickdog!

Though Iam believing the swan comes from a heavenly place.

Face the facts Stick. This country has devolved into sickness on a massive scale. The majority of American men regularly bathe their psyches and train their sexual responsiveness with sadistic,violent pornography. Look who's president Stick. Sorry to say that the bastion of so called good, normal behavior you refer to is no longer a reference point.

If this is part of what 'dog is having trouble accepting, then I am with him.

[Iamwhomiam]

So, name another economically comfortable senior citizen who became a senseless suicidal mass shooter.

Ted Kaczynski and Andrew Kehoe

But really, what do we get if we applied Occam's Razor? Let's see, Paddock lived less than 5 miles from Cliven Bundy. Most were acquitted of their standoff charges in August but Bundy's trial was rescheduled to begin in October...

[brekin]

So, name another economically comfortable senior citizen who became a senseless suicidal mass shooter.

Ted Kaczynski and Andrew Kehoe
But really, what do we get if we applied Occam's Razor? Let's see, Paddock lived less than 5 miles from Cliven Bundy. Most were acquitted of their standoff charges in August but Bundy's trial was rescheduled to begin in October...

And less we forget most US presidents.

[identity]

The majority of American men regularly bathe their psyches and train their sexual responsiveness with sadistic,violent pornography.

Sorry to depart from the immediate topic, but — Truly? Is there data showing this?

(Not to further derail, but...) I'd also be curious to see anything suggesting that this is what a majority of American women believe about the men they move amongst (regardless of the veracity or otherwise of the original claim). Also, does HS believe this most likely holds true for the male members of RI as well?

[Burnt Hill]

Is that really the simplest explanation, that somehow those two/events are connected?

But really, what do we get if we applied Occam's Razor? Let's see, Paddock lived less than 5 miles from Cliven Bundy. Most were acquitted of their standoff charges in August but Bundy's trial was rescheduled to begin in October...

[stickdog99]

If you bothered to research it yourself you would have a list of at least 10 such cases of U.S. mass shootings by men in their 60s. I certainly would have bothered to do that before mouthing off so aggressively with such a self-evidently unsustainable claim. Once you too have located this easily searched info, you can try figuring out their net wealth, as if it would matter.

Come on. You must know that profiling is the first principle of criminology. Of course the fact that Paddock is a millionaire matters. That, his age, and his lack of documented psychological disorders are the main reason he does not fit the mass shooter profile one iota.

Why are you afraid to supply your "list of at least 10 such cases of U.S. mass shootings by men in their 60s" if it is in fact so easy to supply? Are you afraid that this list would prove my point rather than your own? Good guess!



Paddock is one of three killers aged over 60. The others are: William D Baker, 66, who killed five people in Illinois in 2001; and Kurt Myers, 64, who killed five people in New York state in 2013.

So Paddock is the only age 60+ mass shooter to have killed more 5 people at leas according to Mother Jones' database.

Upon further review of 4 different mass shooter databases, here are all 5 previous mass shooters (4 or more victims) over 55 in US history:

William Bevins, 71, was in a bizarre and sordid sexual relationship with a young girl, Katie Sue Click, who was married to one of his 6 murder victims. Bevins had been regularly paying Katie Sue Click and her husband for her sexual favors and his shooting spree was set off by an unexpected demand for an increase in the charge for her sexual favors. While definitely a nut case, he did not senselessly kill strangers in an availability heuristic altering event, and his initial shooting was not premeditated.

William D. Baker, 66, killed 4 co-workers and then himself in a revenge killing for sending him back to jail. He fits the profile of a powerless, pathetic man with absolutely nothing to lose. He did not senselessly kill strangers in an availability heuristic altering event.

Kurt Myers, 64, killed 4 people in a deadly rampage after setting fire to his house. He killed 2 people he knew in one location and then 2 other strangers in another location once he knew he no longer had anything whatsoever to lose. He had no money to his name was was being continually pestered by debt collectors. He fits the mass shooter profile of a powerless, pathetic male with absolutely nothing to lose. He did not senselessly kill strangers in an availability heuristic altering event.

Carl Drega, 62, was a nut with a history of getting in trouble with authorities over his property rights. When some cop stopped him and cited him for having too much rust on his pickup truck, he snapped and shot down two cops. Then he decided to kill a judge who had ruled against him while he was at it. He also shot a guy who tried to disarm him during this revenge killing. He fits the profile of a man who snapped violently then felt he had absolutely nothing to lose. While definitely a nut case, he did not senselessly kill strangers in an availability heuristic altering event, and his initial shooting was in no way premeditated.

William Bryan Cruse, 59. shot 6 people, but did not then off himself. His wife had Parkinson's disease. He hated kids for cutting through his yard. One day he shot one little kid who did so in a fury, then went on a mall rampage and killed 5 more people including 2 cops who were trying to take him in. He fits the profile of a man who snapped violently then felt he had absolutely nothing to lose. Again, he was a complete nut, but he did not senselessly kill strangers in an availability heuristic altering event, and his initial shooting was in no way premeditated.

As I have said, there is simply no historical precedent for what Paddock is accused of. None of the 5 previous mass shooters over 55 killed more than 6 people. None of the previous mass shooters over 55 killed strangers in a premeditated fashion. One planned a revenge killing on his last day before jail, and all of rest them simply lost it for one reason or another then continued rampaging because they no longer felt they had anything to lose.

Furthermore, mass shootings themselves are exceedingly rare, even the USA. In all of USA history, there are 131 total events in which four or more people were killed by a lone shooter (or two shooters in three cases). An average of eight people died during each event, often including the shooters. That's 131 mass shootings of 4 or more people (sometimes including the shooters themselves) in all of US history. This includes shootings in both public and private places, shooting sprees, crimes of passion, unplanned rampages, and shootings in which the shooter did not end up killing himself. In only 7 events in all of US history have more than 14 people been killed. Each of these 7 cases (other than perhaps that of Charles Joseph Whitman, the original 1966 availability heuristic altering event) had the earmarks of extreme spook-iness.

Please confront the actual data rather than your wildly inaccurate Hollywood pop psychology estimations of the data. No US citizen has ever been accused of shooting so many people before. No US citizen over 55 has ever killed more than 6 people in a mass shooting before. No US citizen over 55 shot only strangers in a mass shooting before. Only one US citizen over 55 planned his mass shooting, and that was to get revenge on the people who were about to send him to jail.

But what Paddock did so fucking likely that you require no motive whatsoever for his actions. Right? Because he fits your insane Hollywood driven profile of a mass shooter, which you feel the need to keep justifying against all historical reality. Because deep down, you have somehow come to believe that any random unnamed "he" would likely do it if "he" could do it. Welcome to the heart of darkness.

[stickdog99]

So, name another economically comfortable senior citizen who became a senseless suicidal mass shooter.

Ted Kaczynski and Andrew Kehoe

But really, what do we get if we applied Occam's Razor? Let's see, Paddock lived less than 5 miles from Cliven Bundy. Most were acquitted of their standoff charges in August but Bundy's trial was rescheduled to begin in October...

Neither were mass shooters. Kehoe snapped when he was 55 and Kaczynski started sending people bombs when he was 36.

[Burnt Hill]

That, his age, and his lack of documented psychological disorders are the main reason he does not fit the mass shooter profile one iota.

At this point, and considering other evidence, I would see this as he never got the help he needed.