Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stefano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:46 am

stickdog99 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:05 pm wrote:Could your reasoned analysis help explain why comfortable millionaires simply do not become mass shooters for no reason?

I challenge everyone here to name a single millionaire other than Paddock who shot any number of complete strangers in a premeditated fashion and then killed himself (or herself). Can anyone here recall a single news report of this ever happening?

Dude you keep begging the question. Why do you think he was comfortable? Because he was rich? Lots of the rich are extremely uncomfortable, often precisely because they're rich. And of course there was a reason, even if only in the demented way that serial killers have reasons.

Although some plausible non-insane reasons emerge from Paddock's apparently spooky background:
- He was being blackmailed and the stress got to him
- He was blackmailed to commit the shooting in some way
- He learnt his business partners planned to kill him

Here's another thing about your use of 'all available history' as a guide:

stickdog99 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:50 am wrote:Here are the ones that most inform our availability heuristic that tells us that these events re common and anyone can kill a large number of randomly for no real reason:
[49 killed - June 12, 2016 - Pulse, a gay nightclub, Spooky as fuck]
32 killed - April 16, 2007 - Virginia Tech. Spooky as fuck

27 killed - December 14, 2012 - Sandy Hook. Spooky as fuck

23 killed - October 16, 1991 - 35-year-old George Hennard executes an insane "revenge" killing on the town (and "viper women") he blames for his financial troubles

13 killed - April 20, 1999 - Columbine High School - Littleton, Colorado. Eighteen-year-old Eric Harris and 17-year-old Dylan Klebold kill 12 fellow students and one teacher before committing suicide in the school library. More intense spookiness.

12 killed - July 20, 2012 - Twelve people are killed, and 58 are wounded in a shooting at a screening of the new Batman film in Aurora, Colorado by James E. Holmes, 24.

That's 5 total events over a 25+ year period, all involving males 35 or young and 4 involving males 24 or younger.

The three deadliest ones, and now this one, all happened in the past ten years. In the time you and I have been posting on this Canadian discussion board, in fact. The availability heuristic you're talking about only took shape very recently. So it doesn't make sense to me to now start whittling this down by reducing the points of reference: 'how many men older than 60 with more than $5m in the bank have ever killed strangers and only strangers and killed more than 15 in a given 24-hour period'.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stefano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:48 am

stickdog99 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:29 am wrote:[b]Police have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacre began on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country-music concert — raising new questions about why police weren’t able to pinpoint the gunman’s location sooner.

That is mad, thanks for that
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby elfismiles » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:10 am

Las Vegas HD 1080p Video of Windows at Mandalay Bay during Concert incident #DNN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSBbnP2axkw

Haven't tried to verify the angle on this / street location but good clear shots (sometimes) of the hotel ... don't see any muzzle flashes. I assume the types of guns used would have that at night but not sure.

ETA...

Same footage?

RAW VIDEO: Escape from Las Vegas shooting

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wnn-GvRPh-w

Raymond Page, a Clark County employee working near the Route 91 Harvest festival, captured 10 mins of video documenting Sunday's deadly shooting near Mandalay Bay. Elaine Wilson/Las Vegas Review-Journal


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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:15 am

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ybody.html

Lisa Crawford had worked for Paddock as his property manager at one of his apartments for six years up until 2012 but said she maintained contact with her friend ever since.

She broke down during an interview with ABC News as she told of how Paddock was generous and funny.

'He tried to make people happy; he tried to make people care and I don't know what happened to him,' she said.

Crawford, who lives in Dallas, Texas, last spoke to Paddock via email a few weeks ago when he checked to make sure she was okay given the hurricanes in the region.

'I have read (the emails) over and over and over again,' Crawford said.

'I've even looked at some photos online of, I guess, him and his girlfriend; you know I was even trying to look into his eyes to see if I saw something that wasn't normal, you know. No, I didn't see anything.'

She shared photos taken a few years back of her with Paddock in Las Vegas with the Paris hotel in the background.

Crawford said she had already spoken to investigators regarding Paddock.

...

They zeroed in on the 32nd floor after Paddock unleashed about 200 rounds at a security guard outside his door. When they got to the stairwell door on that floor near Paddock's room, they found he had taken special measures to slow them down.

'He had screwed shut the door - with a piece of metal and some screws,' Bitsko said. 'Cause he knew we'd be coming out that door to gain entry into his door. So he tried to barricade it as best he could.'

But another officer had a pry bar and was able to easily pop it open, Bitsko said.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Heaven Swan » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:40 am

Project Willow » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:09 pm wrote:I wasn't going to post this, but I've changed my mind. Obviously I am not a criminologist, but in order to understand better the minds of the people who tortured me when I was kid, I've read a number of texts proposing theories on the causes of violence. These range from feminist analysis, cultural and biological anthropology texts, to those containing extensive interviews with abusers and murderers and describing the process of their psychological treatment.

Violence is a form of communication. The internal process of a violent man goes something like this, he perceives he, or "his people", have been brought down, infringed upon, his status or power challenged in a way that has "gone too far", so he asserts himself to rectify the balance, reclaim his Self and/or manhood. Even though it may appear senseless to us, violence makes sense to him, as a form of self or community defense, especially if other ways of coping and mitigating are limited or cut off, due to socialization, psychological weakness, beliefs, and other factors. It may be helpful to remember that throughout our evolutionary history, to be outcast from the community meant certain death, and that is why perceived status is directly linked to fear on a life threatening level.

Violence is a tool of control. Men use violence and threats of violence to keep their partners and families in a place of subservience. While many abusers claim they "lose control" when they assault, analysis of their acts shows they are entirely aware of what they're doing. Rates of violence among the mentally ill are no higher than those among the general populace. Mentally ill people tend towards self injury more than outward violence. People don't "snap", it is more like a gradual boil, a series of perceived injuries that build to a point where the man believes he cannot preserve his Self or status without violent redress. There is almost always a pattern of using violence as a means to an end before a major event, or a record of violent fantasy.

Given this understanding of violence, wealth is definitely a factor in profiling Paddock because with wealth comes status, power and control. Did Paddock hate the very system that he milked to make himself and his family rich? Lots of wealthy people are abusive to their wives and kids, for the same reasons I outlined above. Paddock is also a loner, while he certainly has social contacts, family and his girlfriend, he did not target these people. So whom or what does he perceive it was that brought him down? What is the source of his resentment? What is his injury? He targeted strangers. If he had a severe, psychotic break, how did he manage to conceal this break and to remain functional enough to plan out the shooting? If he were a straight up sociopath who enjoyed hurting people, there'd be some hint of past incidents. Sociopaths on that level want to savor the suffering, to make it last, to enshrine it in ritual. He doesn't fit the profile of a hitman either.

The profile is just a big void at this point. Trying to fill that void with "it's possible" makes nonsense of everything I thought I knew about violence.


Delving into the abuser profile of mass shooters (see bolded paragraph) might actually get us somewhere in terms of understanding why they do what they do and enable us to institute profiling that would flag those at risk and prevent future events.

To start off, all those with bonafide domestic violence histories could be prevented from buying or carrying weapons and, going a step further, could be outfitted with ankle bracelets or some such monitoring device.

The abuser profile is the meat of the matter as PW's post illustrates.***

The logistical problem is that being an abuser is a patriarchal tradition--expressed on a larger social scale through colonizing, raping, pillaging, enslaving, making war, etc, and on an individual scale by men colonizing women and children. Little boys absorb the abuser self-concept and world view and learn the abuser way of life from their fathers. Have you read Maria Montessori? That is how children learn.

It's a structural problem, and either we wake and do something to stop the replication of the hierarchical tradition (or habit) of patriarchy or the end of the human race and severe damage to the planet appear to be imminent (the planet is strong so once we're gone it may recover).



***And please note that the large majority of abusers don't seem dangerous, crazy or abusive in their everyday interactions. Things may slip out from under the social mask (like Paddocks' behavior in Starbucks) but most abusers cultivate a benign or 'nice-guy' social persona. Their true hierarchically-minded, controlling and abusive nature comes out behind closed doors, with "their' women and children
"When IT reigns, I’m poor.” Mario
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stefano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:51 am

http://i64.tinypic.com/iv8pc0.jpg

That links to a (very gory! use your discretion) picture of dead Paddock... with some cartridge casings on top of the puddle of blood. Arguably a cop kicked them there, but...
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby elfismiles » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:17 am

Is this the video?

https://www.facebook.com/GioRios/videos ... 671221376/

Brentos » 10 Oct 2017 03:18 wrote:The ed opperman video is worth a listen. I can believe that what happened or did not, at caesars and bellagio etc...could be due to the open carry survivors/swat teams/police, instead of people in on it, if shots were fired at all. At the mandalay bay and surrounding areas like tropicana, the overlapping bursts of gunfire in videos and eyewitnesses like Gio Rios, imo, point to the possibility of more than one shooter. I'm not so sure that we should rule out eyewitness testimony altogether. Rio states that he clearly heard and saw other shooters with his own eyes (including muzzle fire), including what he believes was a shady man with a suitcase. All near Mandalay, Tropicana, and NYNY/Excalibur. He just posted a video going into detail, as well as Q&A: https://www.facebook.com/GioRios
Could these shooters be open carry civilians, or over zealous cops shooting?? These shootings seemed to more brief. Gio seems pretty legit to me, despite some of his hypothesizing. The police scanners that day talk about an active shooter at NYNY/Excalibur that day

<snip>
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby elfismiles » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:19 am

Haven't they suggest he accidentally shot himself ... I think in another pic of him dead he is laying on top of one of the rifles.

I've thought several times: what if he slipped on those shell casings...

stefano » 10 Oct 2017 12:51 wrote:http://i64.tinypic.com/iv8pc0.jpg

That links to a (very gory! use your discretion) picture of dead Paddock... with some cartridge casings on top of the puddle of blood. Arguably a cop kicked them there, but...
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby seemslikeadream » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:23 am

Police: Las Vegas gunman shot security guard six minutes before massacre
http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/09/us/las-ve ... index.html
Mazars and Deutsche Bank could have ended this nightmare before it started.
They could still get him out of office.
But instead, they want mass death.
Don’t forget that.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby elfismiles » Tue Oct 10, 2017 10:24 am

Has anyone compiled data on exactly WHERE each victim or gunshot survivor was struck?

Image

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... oting.html
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby stickdog99 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:23 am

Extremely Convincing Forensic Evidence of Two Shooters



edited to remove "Proof" because this is just another data point at this juncture.
Last edited by stickdog99 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby Elvis » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:30 am

The discussion of criminal profiling led me to recall this 2007 Malcolm Gladwell (not a fave of mine) piece in The New Yorker. Worth a read or re-read:

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2007 ... rous-minds

In the mid-nineties, the British Home Office analyzed a hundred and eighty-four crimes, to see how many times profiles led to the arrest of a criminal. The profile worked in five of those cases. That’s just 2.7 per cent, which makes sense if you consider the position of the detective on the receiving end of a profiler’s list of conjectures. Do you believe the stuttering part? Or do you believe the thirty-year-old part? Or do you throw up your hands in frustration?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:45 pm

Elvis, thanks for a typically civil and rational reply. The Authoritay has so far not once asserted that he used flash suppressors. Maybe they will examine those guns more closely and suddenly "notice" that he did ("Oh look! Flash suppressors! Good golly, how did we miss that? Fog of War, I guess...") and wheel out that excuse eventually, well over a week later (though only in the vanishingly unlikely event that any actual "journalist" dares to mention the complete absence of photographic evidence of gunfire from the 32nd flooor, or indeed from anywhere else in the hotel -- except for that "strobe light" [sic] on the 4th floor).

They have "revised" practically everything else in a desperate but still wholly unsuccessful effort to make this farrago look convincing. Not just the timeline of the shooting, but Paddock's actual check-in date, which they first gave as Sept 28 and then "corrected" to September 25. Let's not be uncharitable, though; this too is a mistake any liar could easily make. Fog of War, y'know?
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:05 pm

Wombaticus Rex » Mon Oct 09, 2017 1:37 pm wrote:One of the most centrally weird details, yes: why didn't he keep shooting? Assuming that's what he was there for. Assuming that was his goal, his final flourish. He sits in a room full of rifles and ammunition and he...

...well, what?


Nah. the most centrally weird "detail" is that this 10-minute-long, earsplitting, 160-decibel, multiple-machine-gun-using, thousand-bullet battlefield inferno was practically inaudible inside the hotel and completely invisible outside it.

This pretence that they had to "work out" and "home in on" the location of the gunman, by "gauging angles and trajectories"! Even if it had been an extremely quiet shooting spree, with state-of-the-art, 100%-effective flash suppressors -- what about those two broken windows lying on the forecourt? Nobody noticed? Nobody cared? Nobody even wondered which floor they'd fallen from?

Like hell.

stefano » Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:48 am wrote:
stickdog99 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:29 am wrote:Police have dramatically changed their account of how the Las Vegas massacre began on Oct. 1, revealing Monday that the gunman shot a hotel security guard six minutes before opening fire on a country-music concert — raising new questions about why police weren’t able to pinpoint the gunman’s location sooner.

That is mad, thanks for that


No, it's not mad. Radically changing a timeline is the entirely typical behaviour of professional liars who know they can get away with murder, not least because they also know that people will queue up to provide excuses for their mendacity and vilify anyone who notices it or objects to it

Do people think the alphabet agencies have silently turned over a new leaf since 9/11? Have the CIA and the FBI become kinder, gentler and more honest since the outrageously blatant San Bernardino lie? Why should anyone believe a word they tell us? They are notorious, and notoriously ruthless, professional liars.

One encouraging thing is that there appears to be some tension or conflict between the Feds and the Vegas police, not to mention the hotel staff and customers. So I expect that the corporate media, following instructions, will put a state-of-the-art silencer on this "investigation" very soon.
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Re: Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

Postby 82_28 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:56 pm

:shrug:

Military Surgeon Says Videos of Las Vegas Gunshot Victims Are Fake

Paul Craig Roberts

It looks like readers are not going to let me let go of the Las Vegas shooting. Some tell me that it is my fault for having alerted them in previous articles to anomalies in other shootings and terrorist events, so now they are more skeptical and pay more attention. Others say that as I emphasize that this is their website supported with their money, I have to see this through to the end. They say it is a cop-out when I say that there are too many disparate accounts for us to know.

One reader made an excellent point. According to mainstream media reports, 59 people were immediately killed in the shooting and 527 were wounded. Among those 527 wounded, wouldn’t some of them have died from complications, blood loss, trauma? How come none of the wounded, people allegedly hit with military rounds, succumbed?

I agree. This does seem to be inexplicable.

And then I received via email a letter that purports to be from a general surgeon who dealt with gunshot wounds in military hospitals. He links to a video of an operation on a real leg gunshot wound, its life threatening nature, and the incapacity that it inflicts for a long time even if the operation is successful. He compares this to the rosy-cheeked laughing alleged victims shown on YouTube with gunshot wounds in support of the official story and says without equivocation that they are actors, badly acting the part.

I appreciate the reader’s point that none of the 527 wounded have died from the wounds. This is not what happens in reality. I am posting the letter below from the surgeon in the hopes that knowledgeable surgeons, military medics, anyone with knowledge of gunshot trauma will assess it’s truth and provide their name and credentials. Not being a military surgeon who has treated gunshot wounds, I cannot attest to the validy of the letter. But there are those who can. Retired surgeons and former military medics can still speak their minds. So let us hear from you. I will compile your comments and present them without your name.

As for my readers, this is the deal: If there are validatated replies, I will provide a report, and that will be the conclusion of my participation in this issue. If there are no validated replies, I will conclude that no qualified people are willing to commit one way or the other on the issue. Without expert opinion, the matter cannot be resolved.

This is the letter from the person who represents himself as a surgeon familiar with gunshot trauma. It was sent to a person named Jack and forwarded to me. I eliminated “Jack” so that it would read to you simply as the expression of a purported trama surgeon’s opinion. Note also, that all of the fake videos of the wounded to which links are supplied have been removed from YouTube. Apparantly, as people are catching on, the authorities are being more careful about their “fake news.”

“As a patriotic American, I must say I was, like most people here, initially totally shocked by the Las Vegas shooting and I hate to admit naively believed the media. However, after receiving disturbing emails about it, with references to others with doubts, I began to look at the media reports with more suspicion, and from a medical point of view primarily the almost complete absence of blood on site from the around 550 victims apparently shot was an immediate give away.

“I am a retired general surgeon, and when younger served in a number of military hospitals in Asia and the Middle East, and I can assure you, few would have had such extensive experience in treating bullet wounds as I. Unless you’ve actually seen bullet wounds from a clinical perspective from high powered weapons they claim were used in the shooting, it is hard to appreciate the extent that the mainstream media are plainly lying.

“Most of these military style weapons now shoot high velocity bullets above 3000 f.p.s. muzzle velocity and when these bullets strike a human body they often cause the bullet to yaw (or tumble) and fragment into about a dozen pieces of various sizes thus creating wounds way out of proportion to the calibre size. Often these wounds are so devastating many have considered the modern M16 type assault rifle rounds (and other similar type of rounds) to be inhuman. Most media sources claim the victims were hit at a range of about 500 meters. To use the U.S military M16 assault rifle as an example. It uses 5.56 x 45 mm high velocity, flat trajectory cartridges giving it an effective range of about 200 meters, but with now more common M855 cartridges and heavier projectiles this is increased to 600 meters, with the bullet being lethal to over 3000 yards or 2700 meters. The M855 round produces massive wounding effects. After about 200 yards, as the velocity declines the projectile is less likely to fragment when it strikes the target, but it still does a huge amount of damage, way above wounds delivered from a regular hand gun for example.

“So with this knowledge in mind, I have now viewed most of the mainstream media reports on YouTube of the victims in hospital and I can assure you they are all actors and not one of these people is a legitimate patient. Being shot with a high-powered weapon and struck with a high velocity bullet is a very trumatic experience and indeed more patients routinely die from the trauma rather than the wound itself. Yet all these patients being interviewed in bed are not surrounded with emergency care diagnostic equipment at all, are looking completely normal, relaxed and comfortable. This is not how patients feel one or two days after being shot with a high-powered assault weapon I can assure you and even if its only in the leg it is still serious. Here is a short YouTube video of what many typical gunshot wounds to the leg of a patient actually looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cDIjCwl3n0

“Here is possibly some of the greatest government/mainstream media/propaganda yet about the Las Vegas shooting, showing President Trump actually visiting a patient in a Las Vegas hospital who apparently was shot through the leg. I can assure you, if he had genuinely been shot through the leg with a high velocity bullet as they claim, he would not, so soon after the event, be able to stand up, neither would he have the desire to do so. This is a disgrace, and one finds it impossible to accept President Trump does not know it is all a completely staged event. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0ucMWOatho

“Here are a couple more videos of these supposed victims in hospital that have been shot. Every one of them are not legitimate patients at all, but are plainly actors: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gySdhRhWGVE and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_LFKvz3W2w Note: in this video the girl patients are almost uncontrollably laughing, knowing that they are lying. During one or two days after getting shot through the hip with a high powered assault weapon and after having been operated on, I can assure you no patient is ever laughing or looking like this!

“Lastly, in the past material has been ‘censored’ off the Internet, and in relation to this recent Las Vegas shooting, links have been blocked over the last 2 or 3 days as well. You might like know that you are not on your own. Because both Facebook and YouTube are working together to censor everything they and the government doesn’t like and don’t want the public to know.

“YouTube has just changed its search algorithms from Thursday night 5th October 2017, to block and censor all the most persuasive videos making claims that the Las Vegas shooting event is a hoax, designing them conspiracy theories, especially videos exposing the crisis actors involved portraying themselves as victims in hospital. These are not wild allegations. It is from their own public admissions. Here is a report showing, “YouTube takes action against offensive conspiracy videos that claim Las Vegas massacre was a hoax.” The arrogance of it all! This is the resurrection of Nazi Germany all over again.

“Therefore, my conclusion is that the whole event was staged, there were no real shooters at all, and probably even Stephen Paddock’s brother is a crisis actor as well. When a handful of powerful wicked men like this control the banks, the global mainstream media and the government, no one can effectively now speak up to criticize, because when they do their words will never be published or heard. I think the real reason why they are using actors and staged events like this at this early stage, is that when they use real, bigger more serious events in the future, those patriots who have previously exposed these earlier events as not being real, will be made to appear stupid. Hopefully I have helped clarify this medical aspect at least.

Yours truly.
Dr K.S.
Florida.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cDIjCwl3n0
Gunshot Wound To The Leg Surgery At Shock Trauma
Surgery for a gunshot wound to the leg at the University of Maryland’s Shock trauma Center.

This e-mail was sent from a contact form on PaulCraigRoberts.org (http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/contact/)


https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/1 ... tims-fake/
There is no me. There is no you. There is all. There is no you. There is no me. And that is all. A profound acceptance of an enormous pageantry. A haunting certainty that the unifying principle of this universe is love. -- Propagandhi
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