Mass shooting in Las Vegas, 2/10/2017

[stefano]

[stickdog99]

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-las ... story.html

Before the Las Vegas massacre began, a wounded Mandalay Bay hotel security guard called hotel officials to warn them about a gunman on the 32nd floor, an investigator told the Los Angeles Times on Tuesday. But police did not arrive at the room where the guard had been shot until after Stephen Paddock had finished a 10-minute shooting rampage on a crowd gathered below for a country music festival, the investigation now shows.

The revelation that hotel security had been alerted comes a day after Las Vegas police changed their timeline of how the Route 91 Harvest country music festival massacre started on Oct. 1 — not with an attack on a crowd along the Strip at 10:05 p.m., but with the shooting of Mandalay Bay security guard Jesus Campos inside the hotel about six minutes before.

“He called it in before” the attack began, possibly using a hallway phone to contact hotel security, Clark County Assistant Sheriff Tom Roberts told The Times in an interview. “He manually called down and he used his radio to call. … That’s what we were briefed this morning.”

Roberts said he didn’t know precisely what time Campos called in his own shooting before the assault on the concert began, or whether the hotel immediately passed the information to police.

“We just don’t know how long it took him to call. He’s getting shot at, he’s running, he’s getting shot, he finds some cover, that’s when he starts calling in,” Roberts said.

A spokeswoman for the company that owns Mandalay Bay seemed to dispute the police timeline given to The Times on Tuesday but did not explain why.

“This remains an ongoing investigation with a lot of moving parts. As evidenced by law enforcement briefings over the past week, many facts are still unverified and continue to change as events are under review,” MGM Resorts International spokeswoman Debra DeShong said in a statement. “We cannot be certain about the most recent timeline that has been communicated publicly, and we believe what is currently being expressed may not be accurate.”

DeShong added, “It is not appropriate for us to comment further at this time on what remains an open matter for law enforcement.”


Wow. It appears as if somebody did not get the memo that somebody else was supposed to be protected from liability if they did as they were told.



Paddock, 64, a real estate investor and professional gambler from Mesquite, Nev., may have also continued to shoot into the hotel hallway. There are some indications that a maintenance worker appeared in the hallway outside Paddock’s door during the shooting rampage, and the gunman may have interrupted his firing at the crowd to shoot once again into the hallway, Roberts said.

But, Roberts continued, “I don’t think it took long at all” for the hotel and for police to respond to the shooting.

Roberts said the hotel dispatched its own armed security team to the 32nd floor, which arrived “right around the same time” as Las Vegas police, who officials have said arrived on the floor at 10:17 p.m. But the gunman had already fired his final shots out his hotel window at 10:15 p.m.

Some police officers had already been inside the Mandalay Bay building responding to another, unrelated call when the attack happened, Roberts said.

There are no hotel surveillance cameras in the hotel hallway, only on the floor’s elevator banks, and the timestamps on the hotel’s communications systems have in some cases been inaccurate, hampering investigators’ ability to build an accurate timeline while they try to find a motive behind the attack, Roberts said.

...

Attorney Richard A. Patterson, who has already filed legal papers to prevent the distribution of any of Paddock's assets on behalf of victim John Phippen's family, said the latest revelations of a six-minute delay between the shooting of Campos and the beginning of Paddock’s shooting rampage suggest “incompetence" on the part of Mandalay Bay.

"We are talking six minutes here. This is amazing and shocking that they didn't respond faster," said Patterson, who was planning legal action against MGM Resorts International on behalf of victims and the families of those killed or injured.

"I think everybody's question is, what if they had gotten there?” Patterson said. “There are high-speed elevators to the 32nd floor. A couple of minutes makes all the difference. At the very least, they could have distracted the killer. Maybe they could have prevented it."

[stickdog99]

Paddock was allowed to use the service elevators and Campos blew town.

[stickdog99]

WHO IS JESUS CAMPOS? LAS VEGAS SECURITY GUARD RAISES NEW QUESTIONS ABOUT SHOOTING

As questions spiral about a significant shift in the timeline of the Las Vegas shooting, a security guard stands in the middle of the controversy: Jose Campos.

At first, Campos, a guard at the Mandalay Bay Resort and Casino, was hailed a hero for helping guide police to gunman Stephen Paddock's room on the 32nd floor. Police said Campos was shot in the leg at the end of Paddock's assault on concertgoers—potentially distracting the gunman and causing him to panic and kill himself.

But now, questions have been raised after Clark County Sheriff Joe Lombardo revised the timeline and said Campos had actually been shot about 9:59 p.m.—a full six minutes before the mass shooting began at 10:05 p.m.—which means the guard could have instead led Paddock to start opening fire on the crowd for fear of being caught.

Police have said it was difficult to identify the source of the bullets during the attack, and the confusion added more minutes to their lengthy response. But the revised timeline shows officers would have known where Paddock was before the mass shooting even started.

Did Campos call 911? What happened during those six minutes?

Much of Campos's story and background remains a mystery.

Campos's co-worker Liliana Rodriguez started a GoFundMe account for him on October 3, explaining that he'd been shot while on "random patrol" and it could have been "anyone of us."

"Funds will be used to provide relief and financial support for him while he gets back on his feet," Rodriguez's online petition says. "This is a young man that I work with day in and day out. Any financial support would be appreciated for the time he would need to recover."

A picture of Campos wasn't displayed as part of the fund because Rodriguez indicated that "due to privacy from the media we do not feel comfortable publishing a photo."

During a brief phone conversation with ABC News, Campos said, "I'm fine...I was just doing my job."

Calls and text messages to Campos, Rodriguez and others who might know him were not immediately returned.

On Tuesday, Las Vegas Metro Police Undersheriff Kevin McMahill explained more about Campos's actions the night of the shooting, helping fill in some of what happened ahead of the attack.

He told KNPR, a local NPR affiliate, that Campos went up to the 32nd floor to investigate a door alarm. While on the 32nd floor, he found that a stairwell door was jammed and radioed down to maintenance.

Campos heard a drilling sound and thought it was odd. A maintenance worker came up to the 32nd floor. As the pair started talking, Paddock began firing through the door of his room, first with a single-fire gun and then with a rapid-fire rifle.

Police have said that when Campos radioed what happened, it helped them track where Paddock was holed up. McMahill didn’t elaborate on the six minutes or why police found it difficult to locate Paddock when, according to the new timeline, they had his location minutes before the assault started.

“I understand why people are frustrated with this because we are as well,” McMahill told KNPR.

[IanEye]

Who is more affluent:
your parents, or Adam Lanza's parents?

Who generally feels that they have more power in our society, young people with mental disabilities who blame their misery on society or successful, established adults?

Got it.

Adam Lanza’s parents were more affluent than yours.
This is true of me as well.

Who is more likely to go on a murderous rampage against strangers, someone who just shot his mother four times, or someone who had no discernible reason to murder a completely unknown stranger when he pulls the trigger for the first time, ensuring his own imminent demise?

I get where you are coming from.
The Lanza killings are in the rear view now, and thus seem less preposterous than the more current Paddock killings.

At some point in the future, a mass killing event will occur that seems even more preposterous than the Paddock killings.

At that point you will pivot to the less preposterous aspects of the Paddock killings to illustrate how preposterous these future killings appear to you.

That’s progress.

In 2012, a lot of people thought that it was preposterous that someone who had just killed his mother would then go on a murderous rampage.
Now, in 2017 that seems much less preposterous compared to the current killings.

Progress.

Congress would be authorized to raise and support a national Army and Navy, and also to organize, arm, discipline, and provide for the calling forth of “the Militia.”
The President, at the same time, was empowered as the “Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States.”
But, with respect to the militia, a significant reservation was made to the States: Although Congress would have the power to call forth, organize, arm, and discipline the militia, as well as to govern “such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States,” the States respectively would retain the right to appoint the officers and to train the militia in accordance with the discipline prescribed by Congress.
But the original Constitution’s retention of the militia and its creation of divided authority over that body did not prove sufficient to allay fears about the dangers posed by a standing army.
For it was perceived by some that Article I contained a significant gap: While it empowered Congress to organize, arm, and discipline the militia, it did not prevent Congress from providing for the militia’s disarmament.
As George Mason argued during the debates in Virginia on the ratification of the original Constitution: “The militia may be here destroyed by that method which has been practiced in other parts of the world before; that is, by rendering them useless—by disarming them. Under various pretences, Congress may neglect to provide for arming and disciplining the militia; and the state governments cannot do it, for Congress has the exclusive right to arm them.”
- Justice Stevens’ dissent in “District of Columbia v. Heller"

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

“The Congress shall have power to provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions.”

“The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States , when called into the actual Service of the United States”

.

[seemslikeadream]

trump wants 10 times more nuclear weapons than we have now...that's why Rex called him a fucking moron

that's progress

[stickdog99]

https://www.thewrap.com/mgm-lawsuits-ma ... -shooting/

As more details emerge about the chaotic scene at MGM Resorts International’s Mandalay Bay Hotel earlier this month, the casino conglomerate is bracing for lawsuits from victims accusing the company of negligence in the way it handled the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.

Attorney Richard Patterson, who represents several victims of the shooting, says the hotel, which also owns the site where the outdoor concert took place, failed to adequately protect its patrons and made decisions that may have contributed to the number of casualties and the scale of the tragedy.

“Where is the system?” Patterson, a partner at law firm Owen Patterson & Owen, told TheWrap. “It broke down. This is negligence — they could have stopped the whole thing. As a land owner you have an obligation to ensure the safety of people on that land. They owned the venue and they owned the hotel — good luck.”

Stephen Paddock’s shooting rampage on Oct. 1 left 58 people dead and 489 injured. He fired from a 32nd floor window of the Mandalay Bay hotel into a lot below, site of the Route 91 Harvest music festival.

Paterson’s clients include Travis Phippen, who watched his father being fatally shot as they helped other victims during the shooting. Patterson argues that concert staffers used poor judgment when turning on the flood-lights as the shooting began, allowing the shooter a clear view of his intended targets. Patterson also contends that Live Nation, the concert promoter, failed to adequately train its security staff.

“If anyone has any experience in risk management or terrorism expertise, the first thing they teach you is: turn off the light, pull down the blinds and find cover, period,” he said.

MGM did not respond to questions about whether the hotel had an emergency plan that included a mass-shooting scenario, or whether Campos had a gun.

Patterson isn’t the only attorney looking into MGM’s potential legal liability. Famed civil rights attorney Gloria Allred told TheWrap that she’s also been in contact with victims of the shooting.

“This is a unique situation and the claims and theories need to be carefully reviewed,” Allred, who sued Hilton Worldwide in 2015 after her client accused a clerk of giving her room key to a man who raped her, told TheWrap. “I have been contacted by victims of the shooting and am in contact with lawyers in Las Vegas to review their claims and any rights which they or family members may have. My heart goes out to the victims and their families.”

I....

“The killer was well known to the hotel and was considered to be a suspicious person regarding his financial dealings,” Patterson said. “He was clearly a high roller and a VIP. The fact that he booked a stay for two days and refused valet service but carried at least 10 bags up to the 32nd floor should have attracted some attention.”
”

[stickdog99]

IanEye,

The most common type of rampage killing starts when a male murders one or more of his relatives. This goes back hundreds of years. At least Sandy Hook had one believable plot element.

Who benefits if we simply take their word for it, without requiring evidence, that all stripes of normal, comfortable people without any known motives or mental disorders want to kill dozens, then scores, then hundreds, then thousands of random strangers so much that they are happy to end their own lives just to do so?

You obviously believe this is just how humans naturally behave. I think it is more probably a series psyops to get us to believe this is how humans naturally behave. Adam Lanza's playing "School Shooting" was guided devolution.

[stefano]

Our disagreement on this thing is essentially theological and probably best left out of this thread, where it is distracting.

[minime]

Cold wet October day, ashamed to say I read the whole thread, and most of the links...

and the thing that impresses me immediately (unfavorably for the most part) is that after a while I stopped looking at the posters' names before reading, and still I could tell who was posting.

What does it mean? It means that truth is not of value so much to the participants. Obviously I'm not talking about everyone, and not all the time. But pretty much. I'll leave you to sort that out. And that's on you. What else does it mean? It means that I've been here too long, to be sure. That I have had no noticeable beneficial effect. And that's on me.

It also means that most of you are not likely to make it out of here. Not that you even know what that means. No matter. Disheartening nevertheless.

Where is the rigorous intuition if the purpose consciously and unconsciously is to cherry pick the facts and distort the presentation to advance an obvious personal narrative to fulfill a personal agenda?

I certainly have an agenda, and I have clearly spelled out what my agenda is, which is to defend any individual summarily convicted of heinous acts in the court of social construction based on nary a single shred of tangible, credible evidence but solely the incredibly bad plot narratives and character assassinations spewed forth by confirmed unremitting liars.

I also used to stand up for the little kids who were picked on by bullies in my formative years, so I suppose my agenda could be characterized as personal. But I would prefer to think that I am merely conveying a disturbingly unique perspective sadly missing among my eleven fellow angry men. That you somehow managed to discern the sound of my little Who voice in noise of the madding crowd humbles me.


edited to insert a missing word

stickdog,

I am sympathetic to your agenda, and won't criticize your approach at this time. Certainly this is an event which evokes and invites emotional reaction. And you have provided much vital information, much more than your share, without pronouncement.

In the spirit of the thread, I hesitate to make prejudgements in the information-gathering stage, but if I must jump to my final conclusion before my time, I would say the deed was done by the eight blind men and women with the elephant in the room using extreme prejudice.

[Cordelia]

and the thing that impresses me immediately (unfavorably for the most part) is that after a while I stopped looking at the posters' names before reading, and still I could tell who was posting.

How did you keep posters' names (and avatars) out of your peripheral vision? (I just tried and can't.)

[minime]

and the thing that impresses me immediately (unfavorably for the most part) is that after a while I stopped looking at the posters' names before reading, and still I could tell who was posting.

How did you keep posters' names (and avatars) out of your peripheral vision? (I just tried and can't.)

I don't know, Cordelia. Maybe it's because you tried not to see it, as an act of will. I don't try. I simply attend to the content without trying not to see the rest. I guess I know Jack's (the knight who says niche) avatar, maybe because it's a portrait of his persona, and I have an interest in the whole Shaxper phenomenon. The rest of you, not so much. Even so, when I'm concentrating on content--and I'm almost always concentrating on content--I don't pay it any mind. It's only recently that I've paid any attention to names at all, except when I'm addressed directly.

I'm an outlier in a cult of personality.


Anyway, I'm interested in Jesus Campos. If I were him I might have headed for the countryside while I had the chance. He's probably not going to be a hero for long. JMO.

[Cordelia]

^^^
Thanks--I thought maybe there was another function key I know nothing about.

[Elvis]

Also glaring by its absence: any mention of a phone found in the room, or even the information that no phone was found in the room. I imagine his last phone calls had to do with the reasons for his death.

At some point the police did say they had 'matched all the phones to the chargers.' Don't have a link handy but it's somewhere in this thread. (Gotta split, bbl.)

[Iamwhomiam]

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-massacre-investigators-probing-whether-others-were-gunman-s-n808431

Earlier, senior law enforcement sources said investigators were puzzled by a charger that did not appear to match any of Paddock’s cellphones. Police have now been able to match all of the cell phone chargers found in the room with multiple cell phones that Paddock had with him.