by Attack Ships on Fire » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:48 am
OK, let's get into this.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Note how easy it is to rewrite or exploit history in a time travel piece. Scott Bakula's TV series using this device drove me nuts.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>First off, "The Fountain" is set in three different time periods, now, 500 years ago and 500 years from now. Second, based on the script that I've read, the segments showing the past don't rewrite any of the history of the time and place that I know of, so I don't really follow the point that you're trying to make here. If the movie were about the reign of Elizabeth I, or the bombing of Pearl Harbor, then I would agree that you have a point -- but it's not. The main character is not based on any real person, so all that is based on "real history" are the events that transpire in 1500 -- and most people have heard that the Spanish were raiding South America during that time period, so I don't see what history is being distorted.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Aronovsky's interest in "a man trying to live forever" reminds me of Dr. Leonard Schlain's books in which he hypothesizes about how the development of the human body led to social behaviors.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's all well and great for you, but if you ask another human being what pops into their mind when they think about a man trying to live forever you're likely to get a very different association. Again, what connection does your link have to the storyline of the film?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Of course I would connect this to the effect on young viewers (most of the audience demographic)...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Actually, I believe that the demo for "The Fountain" will be people above the ages of 25. There's no explosions in it, no space aliens, no Will Smith action sequences, which seg to the youth demo for Hollywood.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...and the inherent desire we have to be part of Something Bigger Than Ourselves, the need for a mythic role in history<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Well, on this point I agree. All of us imagine that we're different than the next person because we ARE the star in our own internal Hollywood movie that's called our life. You make judgements about situations, people, events as you move along life, which can also influence your outlook, your morals, the way you live your life. Your own perspective about the way you believe Hollywood movies are part of a clandestine campaign to seed hidden messages that a mysterious cabal wants to embed in the minds of the population is a great example of this desire to be larger, to see a greater vision than others do, to be in on the great secret and how it truly operates. Regardless as to what the truth is, we are all movie stars in our own minds.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Smell any camouflage yet?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>If you are referring to your story of Schlain's books and how you think it's being used to communicate some kind of hidden meme in "The Fountain" so that men think they're special and important and will live forever, no, I don't see it. Unless you clarify what you're trying to insinuate here, I don't see any hidden agenda using Schlain's theories at work here.<br><br>Next, you spend the following five paragraphs mentioning another reference, this time to the subject of why humans need to find order from chaos, a reason to explain why horrible things happen when we're witness to them (am I right? thus your reference to acts of war atrocities and PTSD.) All well and fine, but what does that have to do with the themes of "The Fountain"? Yes, there is a plot point that involves a conquistador fighting Aztecs. It is not the whole movie. I would dare say that this plot point is not even that important to the film when compared to another point, that being those living in the fear of having someone die of terminal cancer. But yet you keep returning to the same themes: war, atroncity, man's inhumanity. Yes, I agree they exist...but are they the primary themes being commuinicated here in this movie or hundreds of others? No, I don't believe so.<br><br>Every movie contains themes. Hollywood loves to use the same old story that we all know by heart: the hero always wins, gets the girl, rides off into the sunset. 99% of mainstream films follow this resolution. That's because mainstream Hollywood movies are primarly made to be mass forms of escapist entertainment, and are not educational in nature. You try watching something like "Sophie's Choice" or "Schlinder's List" every weekend and see if it doesn't affect your desire to watch new movies. 99% of moviegoers want to escape for 2 hours. Yes, these kinds of films are mostly mindless entertainment -- but that's all they are. They don't exist to control society or to not make us address the heavy issues of the world, otherwise there wouldn't ever be any Hollywood films that tackle objectional material that makes you think, even if it's in the slighest way.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Death is a hot topic right now. War, global warming, more Katrina-like devastation coming.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No, I disagree. Death has always been a hot topic, just one that isn't tackled often in mainstream movies. The ramifications of death in movies isn't dwelled upon much because of its finality and the uncertainty of not knowing what lies beyond death, if anything is there at all. In the real world life that the average North American leads, death is indeed everywhere: in the news (fear of crime, fear of premature dying, fear that the world will end, fear that the lives of those you love will end due to war, pestilence, famine, disease or something else), in the subjects that we discuss, in the popular entertainment we watch/read. Death is a part of life, and it's being used every day to control people, to manipulate people, to entertain people and to educate people. Buy insurance just in case, don't stay out late just in case, watch next week's episode just in case someone you like dies, tune in to the news just in case things are getting worse and so on. It was like that in the 1970s when I was a kid, throughout the 80s, the 90s and today. I bet it was like that before I was around as well.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This is also why religion is being foisted on us everywhere.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Again, a worthy subject for a different discussion - but what does that have to do with "The Fountain"? Nothing.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Smell that camouflage yet?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No, but you already knew that.<br><br>Should we keep looking for the hidden messages, the buried clues that suggest a police state is imminent, that they want to control us using George Clooney and Julia Roberts, that all forms of popular entertainment are like propaganda for an ulterior purpose, in EVERYTHING we read/see? Keep looking long enough and the shadows on the wall start to look like dragons, and thus you will always live in a state of fear, questioning everything to the point that every facet of society becomes another piece of evidence that supports your case.<br><br>Hell, if you want to get paranoid, YOU may be a disinformation agent yourself, placed here to obfusciate the media and its role in the new world order that may or may not exist. Keep us wary of movies, keep our attention focused on the pictures of moving light and how much damage they are doing, giving them power over our lives...when in fact they're just silly moving pictures of light.<br><br>My thoughts on comics/graphic novels are already posted. Thanks for responding to my challenge Hugh. Even though I feel that you sidestepped most of the issue and don't still have a fair view of what this film is about, you always live up to presenting a stellar amount of information. I'll keep my eyes open for Hedges and Schlain and see if they're worthwhile reading for my own data dump.<br> <p></p><i></i>