Trailer for "The Fountain"

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point of order!

Postby TroubleFunk » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:36 pm

Rarely will I ever do this. I swear to all of you. Honestly - I'm not some "English Nazi" but there's no point using this phrase if you're not going to use it correctly.<br><br>It's "Bated", not "Baited", unless you've been eating chum or something. <br><br>And, to avoid another post, it's "lose", not "loose" (that didn't happen this time, but it kills me every time it happens).<br><br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bai1.htm">www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-bai1.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: point of order!

Postby orz » Fri Jul 28, 2006 9:45 pm

ooops, yeah, sorry about that! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> Hmm i shouldn't use the phrase at all really...<br><br>Must re-read <!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/orwell46.htm">Politics and the English Language</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--> and try harder in future! <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START |I --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tired.gif ALT="|I"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's STILL wants 'Fountain' themes

Postby Hugh Manatee Wins » Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:46 am

Fair enough, asof. What about this dang film?<br>First a joke.<br>I really did just see a bumpersticker that said<br>"We have enough youth. How about a fountain of smart?"<br><br>This interview with Darren Aronofsky is interesting- <br><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://movies.about.com/od/thefountain/a/fountain072205.htm">movies.about.com/od/thefo...072205.htm</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Darren Aronofsky on His Passion for “The Fountain:”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> “Why? <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Because it’s fun to watch conquistadors fight Mayans,</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--> and it’s fun to shoot guys into outer space floating around, so I wanted to do a little bit of everything.<br>....<br>But I think one of the initial things was, ‘How come no one’s ever made a film about the Tree of Life?’ In Genesis, there’s two trees: the tree of knowledge and the tree of life. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>It’s something that’s been in human mythology forever. People wanting to live forever.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br>....<br>It used to be a much different type of action [movie] and I just said, <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>‘What is it really about? Well, it’s about a guy trying to live forever. That’s what it’s about. So how do I show that?’ So it became Hugh Jackman versus the forces of evil versus him having a whole army.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Note how easy it is to rewrite or exploit history in a time travel piece. Scott Bakula's TV series using this device drove me nuts.<br><br>Aronovsky's interest in "a man trying to live forever" reminds me of Dr. Leonard Schlain's books in which he hypothesizes about how the development of the human body led to social behaviors.<br><br>Schlain noticed that men and women faced mortality very differently in the hospital. Much more traumatic for men than women. And he connected this to a historical psychic bargain between men and women as they finally figured out where the babies were coming from and a negotiation dynamic arose wherein men offer resources in order to get progeny as a form of immortality, an extension of their territorial boundaries out into the future.<br><br>Of course I would connect this to the effect on young viewers (most of the audience demographic) and the inherent desire we have to be part of Something Bigger Than Ourselves, the need for a mythic role in history. <br><br>Smell any camouflage yet?<br><br>This innate need for a mythic role was beautifully described by former war correspondent (originally a divinity student) Chris Hedges in his book 'War is a Force that Gives Us Meaning.'<br><br>Hedges covered the 1980s Reagan wars in Central America and the Clinton wars in the Balkans. He got the same PTSD the troops get and saw what the civilians went through. Hell.<br><br>In my opinion, Hedges' most powerful realization he articulates is that <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>what we need most to cope is a coherent narrative</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->. Hence the endless trauma of the disappeared and mass graves and missing-in-action loved ones.<br><br>This is why disinformation and confusion repels people from even looking at a topic and serves as an easy deterrent, an electric fence to inquiry.<br><br>So whether or not the film maker intends to reinforce recruiting or not, the effect of the film in the context into which it is released is to massage those themes about 'men making a difference,' 'protecting the women,' trying to "make your own reality" as someone in the White House claimed to do recently.<br><br>Here's actess Rachel Weisz on the mortality thing-<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>“The Izzi character is the crux - the present day is the crux of the film. It’s about her coming to terms with her own death and her life and what it means. And that’s really what the film’s about,” explained Aronofsky, adding, “It’s about does death make us human? If we actually could live forever, would we still be people? And that’s really what makes it and that’s really what the film is about.”<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>There was just an NPR weekend piece (can't remember what show cuz their all propaganda) about death and coming to terms with it.<br><br>Death is a hot topic right now. War, global warming, more Katrina-like devastation coming.<br><br>This is also why religion is being foisted on us everywhere. All this suffering, injustice, and upheaval with probably worse ahead has the social engineers doing what they do best- keeping the Greater American Patient stable with a regimen of medicines in the form of units of meaning to provide narratives that 'comfort and explain' without threatening the status quo in any way. "You can say what you want on this bus about what you see but stay behind the white line."<br><br>Media keeps us behind the white line. So does this movie whether intentionally or not.<br><br>More from Rachel Weisz-<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I just delved deep into the world of the experience of dying, and particularly dying before your time. I mean dying of old age, I think, is another thing. <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>But dying as a woman in the prime of your life, as a human in the prime of your life, is a different thing. </strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->So that was where I had to delve.<br><br>I don’t think she’s powerful or heroic. She’s just someone who’s grappling with that situation and <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>she behaves in a way that I wish if it happens to me, I would be as noble as her.</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Smell that camouflage yet?<br><br>Ah, another cross-distribution that screams "FOR KIDS."<br>This movie is also a graphic novel. That is, a comic book.<br>Some movies are also video games now. "FOR KIDS."<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>So it’s kind of a unique situation. I don’t think it’s ever happened before where you have a graphic novel based on a screenplay, as well as a movie based on a screenplay.”</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>And anytime you are showing images to kids you are doing social engineering whether you are a Hollywood spook or not. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's STILL wants 'Fountain' themes

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:07 am

Hugh, you wrote a lot, as usual, and I want to take it piece by piece...but it's late, and I need the time to dissect your comments. But I can jump on you right now for one of your comments:<br><br>"This movie is also a graphic novel. That is, a comic book...FOR KIDS."<br><br>Hugh, if you knew anything about the way the comic book biz is laid out, then you would know that the graphic novel for "The Fountain" is published under the Vertigo imprint line of DC Comics. Vertigo books carry the warning that the comic and/or graphic novel contains mature content and is suggested for mature readers. It is most definitely not the same as an Archie comic, or even for that matter an X-Men comic book.<br><br>Furthermore, I think you're twisting the existence of a "Fountain" graphic novel to fit your paradigm view of a sinister agenda to corrupt, in this instance young kids.<br><br>And yeah, I'll argue with you that there is a difference between graphic novels and comic books. You shouldn't confuse the two.<br><br>If you really want to blow your mind Hugh, don't stop at the "Fountain" graphic novel. Did you know that Vertigo also publishes an ongoing series called "Lucifer" about the fallen angel of God, and its (yes, its, not his) attempts to start a new Creation? Better yet, go pick up the "Season of Mists" storyline from "The Sandman" comic book series. I bet that would rock your paradigm into the stratosphere.<br><br>"And anytime you are showing images to kids you are doing social engineering whether you are a Hollywood spook or not."<br><br>So what's the alternative? Blindfold all the children of the world because they might see something that makes them question themselves, those around them or the world? Or what if they see something that reflects the way that they see the world? Who gets to decide what imagery is right and what is wrong? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's STILL wants 'Fountain' themes

Postby Attack Ships on Fire » Sat Jul 29, 2006 6:48 am

OK, let's get into this.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Note how easy it is to rewrite or exploit history in a time travel piece. Scott Bakula's TV series using this device drove me nuts.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>First off, "The Fountain" is set in three different time periods, now, 500 years ago and 500 years from now. Second, based on the script that I've read, the segments showing the past don't rewrite any of the history of the time and place that I know of, so I don't really follow the point that you're trying to make here. If the movie were about the reign of Elizabeth I, or the bombing of Pearl Harbor, then I would agree that you have a point -- but it's not. The main character is not based on any real person, so all that is based on "real history" are the events that transpire in 1500 -- and most people have heard that the Spanish were raiding South America during that time period, so I don't see what history is being distorted.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Aronovsky's interest in "a man trying to live forever" reminds me of Dr. Leonard Schlain's books in which he hypothesizes about how the development of the human body led to social behaviors.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>That's all well and great for you, but if you ask another human being what pops into their mind when they think about a man trying to live forever you're likely to get a very different association. Again, what connection does your link have to the storyline of the film?<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Of course I would connect this to the effect on young viewers (most of the audience demographic)...<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Actually, I believe that the demo for "The Fountain" will be people above the ages of 25. There's no explosions in it, no space aliens, no Will Smith action sequences, which seg to the youth demo for Hollywood.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>...and the inherent desire we have to be part of Something Bigger Than Ourselves, the need for a mythic role in history<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Well, on this point I agree. All of us imagine that we're different than the next person because we ARE the star in our own internal Hollywood movie that's called our life. You make judgements about situations, people, events as you move along life, which can also influence your outlook, your morals, the way you live your life. Your own perspective about the way you believe Hollywood movies are part of a clandestine campaign to seed hidden messages that a mysterious cabal wants to embed in the minds of the population is a great example of this desire to be larger, to see a greater vision than others do, to be in on the great secret and how it truly operates. Regardless as to what the truth is, we are all movie stars in our own minds.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Smell any camouflage yet?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>If you are referring to your story of Schlain's books and how you think it's being used to communicate some kind of hidden meme in "The Fountain" so that men think they're special and important and will live forever, no, I don't see it. Unless you clarify what you're trying to insinuate here, I don't see any hidden agenda using Schlain's theories at work here.<br><br>Next, you spend the following five paragraphs mentioning another reference, this time to the subject of why humans need to find order from chaos, a reason to explain why horrible things happen when we're witness to them (am I right? thus your reference to acts of war atrocities and PTSD.) All well and fine, but what does that have to do with the themes of "The Fountain"? Yes, there is a plot point that involves a conquistador fighting Aztecs. It is not the whole movie. I would dare say that this plot point is not even that important to the film when compared to another point, that being those living in the fear of having someone die of terminal cancer. But yet you keep returning to the same themes: war, atroncity, man's inhumanity. Yes, I agree they exist...but are they the primary themes being commuinicated here in this movie or hundreds of others? No, I don't believe so.<br><br>Every movie contains themes. Hollywood loves to use the same old story that we all know by heart: the hero always wins, gets the girl, rides off into the sunset. 99% of mainstream films follow this resolution. That's because mainstream Hollywood movies are primarly made to be mass forms of escapist entertainment, and are not educational in nature. You try watching something like "Sophie's Choice" or "Schlinder's List" every weekend and see if it doesn't affect your desire to watch new movies. 99% of moviegoers want to escape for 2 hours. Yes, these kinds of films are mostly mindless entertainment -- but that's all they are. They don't exist to control society or to not make us address the heavy issues of the world, otherwise there wouldn't ever be any Hollywood films that tackle objectional material that makes you think, even if it's in the slighest way.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Death is a hot topic right now. War, global warming, more Katrina-like devastation coming.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No, I disagree. Death has always been a hot topic, just one that isn't tackled often in mainstream movies. The ramifications of death in movies isn't dwelled upon much because of its finality and the uncertainty of not knowing what lies beyond death, if anything is there at all. In the real world life that the average North American leads, death is indeed everywhere: in the news (fear of crime, fear of premature dying, fear that the world will end, fear that the lives of those you love will end due to war, pestilence, famine, disease or something else), in the subjects that we discuss, in the popular entertainment we watch/read. Death is a part of life, and it's being used every day to control people, to manipulate people, to entertain people and to educate people. Buy insurance just in case, don't stay out late just in case, watch next week's episode just in case someone you like dies, tune in to the news just in case things are getting worse and so on. It was like that in the 1970s when I was a kid, throughout the 80s, the 90s and today. I bet it was like that before I was around as well.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This is also why religion is being foisted on us everywhere.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Again, a worthy subject for a different discussion - but what does that have to do with "The Fountain"? Nothing.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Smell that camouflage yet?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>No, but you already knew that.<br><br>Should we keep looking for the hidden messages, the buried clues that suggest a police state is imminent, that they want to control us using George Clooney and Julia Roberts, that all forms of popular entertainment are like propaganda for an ulterior purpose, in EVERYTHING we read/see? Keep looking long enough and the shadows on the wall start to look like dragons, and thus you will always live in a state of fear, questioning everything to the point that every facet of society becomes another piece of evidence that supports your case.<br><br>Hell, if you want to get paranoid, YOU may be a disinformation agent yourself, placed here to obfusciate the media and its role in the new world order that may or may not exist. Keep us wary of movies, keep our attention focused on the pictures of moving light and how much damage they are doing, giving them power over our lives...when in fact they're just silly moving pictures of light.<br><br>My thoughts on comics/graphic novels are already posted. Thanks for responding to my challenge Hugh. Even though I feel that you sidestepped most of the issue and don't still have a fair view of what this film is about, you always live up to presenting a stellar amount of information. I'll keep my eyes open for Hedges and Schlain and see if they're worthwhile reading for my own data dump.<br> <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Attack ships on fire's STILL wants 'Fountain' themes

Postby orz » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:24 am

Hugh, glad you responded, but dissapointed (yet not surprised) that your response was a series of admittedly interesting free-associations that didn't even come close to factually proving that there is any deliberate propaganda of the type you describe in this specific movie.<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>This movie is also a graphic novel. That is, a comic book.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rolleyes --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/eyes.gif ALT=":rolleyes"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br>I bet you think animation is "for kids" too... <br><br>You're way into the red credibility-wise with me now... <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :) --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <br><br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Scott Bakula's TV series using this device drove me nuts.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> I bet it did! <p></p><i></i>
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Re: Prof Pan's "subliminal" Raging Bull poster is

Postby professorpan » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:37 am

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>No, they are 'hidden' in plain sight. There's your poster and the message to men is that "Real Men Fight." You know, 'Chicken Little.' Oh, and 'Nacho Libre' wrestling for the orphans as macho moral theater.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>It's a movie about a <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>boxer,</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> dude. Perhaps you could put down your notebook and watch something for the sake of art once in a while? <p></p><i></i>
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