Mel Gibson's DUI and drunken rant

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:55 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>As I said before, some people spout comments "only in an attempt to reach for the most stinging insult of the moment...and not because they are truly racist."<hr></blockquote> Roth I still don't get this idea. How can you seperate the two. Are you saying that those people are thinking "hmmm if I say this it will hurt and piss that person off more than anything else I can think of cos if I was in his/her position this would piss me off no end". Fair enough that I understand. Not many people think that carefully about their insults tho. They say the first nasty thing that pops into their head. that is way different. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Maybe it is fitting that an obese bloated culture gets snagged on its own corpulence and gets its helpless eyes picked out by the crows and its voluminous belly and guts eaten by wild dogs and giant rats. I guess that would serve it right for being a self centred egotistical wank of a way of life that takes meaning and pisses it up against the wall. Then rolls in it. Like the mangy dog it is.<hr></blockquote> I'm quite proud of that one. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I second your motion. 'Double standards' are absolutely the name of the game, with typical mainstream liberalism today.<hr></blockquote> Not just the liberals. Or the Liberals. (IE the aussie political party.) <blockquote>Quote:<hr>I have seen that from liberalism over and over in my lifetime: Somebody in public life or in the public eye (Jimmy the Greek and golf announcer Ben Wright come to mind) slips up, makes an inappropriate comment...and they are banished for life.<hr></blockquote> Those decent God fearing Macarthyite's didn't do that did they. I dunno what your definition of liberal is tho. I think you referred to a website I once posted as being liberal. Which is about as wrong as it gets. That was the website belonging to a bunch of abos in the bush (since we are talking racism here, and abo's is about as offensive to me as I imagine David Duke saying "hey Nigga" to Chuck D would be to chucky baby). They don't even get to the point of liberalism. See thats the real danger with racism or bigotry of all types. Words get used to replace reality. You don't see people you (Not necessarily you Roth) see Niggers, Jews, WASPS, Wogs and wankers. Slopes and Dopes. Nips spics skegs and dagos. Cops, Jacks, The Filth, scum of the earth. Skinnies and Sand Niggers. Antichrist Babylonian talmud Jews. (I love that one, its almost poetic in its form, and as far irony goes well, it really takes the cake.) Scumfuck corporate suits. Yuppie dogs. Bogans. Oinks Rednecks. Cow cockies. greenies. Hippies and ferals Greasers. Soches. Prods. Micks. Mad turks from Istambul. (No thats actually the name of a band.) Not people. Roth you (are this was edited to) seem incredibly bigoted because you see the world in terms of liberals and non liberals. its hardwired into your world view and as a result you only see liberals. not people who sometimes exhibit liberal tendencies. Replace liberal with the word Jew and you begin to get my point. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Just starting with the fact that one can observe about a hundred incidents a day, here at RI alone, of what could potentially be construed as bigotry against Christianity/traditional values/ Midwestern/ NormanRockwellian culture et al (all water off a duck's back, for me)....what we have here is a major case of "the pot calling the kettle black".<hr></blockquote> Your pot talks? mine just gets sticky. That must be some mighty potent stuff. Never hear of the pot calling the kettle white, or stainless steel coloured for that matter. Its always black. I haven't actually seen a black kettle for about 20 years. Midwestern traditional christianity... <blockquote>Quote:<hr>being a self centred egotistical wank of a way of life that takes meaning and pisses it up against the wall. Then rolls in it. Like the mangy dog it is.<hr></blockquote> Maybe not, but whether you realise it or not that culture is the one that has ruled the Western World for the last 50 years. That is the culture with the power, and it sat back and did fuck all while the world slipped into a place where the survival of humanity is a serious issue, and not at all guaranteed. Thats the culture of Kenneth Bloody Copeland and his crystal cathedral. His "Believers Hour of Victory". I have been watching him on and off for 15 years. Usually after a big night out in the vain hope of a good laugh. He just makes me sick tho. You make some good points about forgiveness and redemption tho. Not really up my alley - forgiveness. Thats a divine thing. I am human and prone to err. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=joehillshoist>Joe Hillshoist</A> at: 8/1/06 11:58 pm

by **HMKGrey** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 1:55 am

Jees, Joe. Enough with the Neitzsche! Bloody great quotes though. I'm going to pinch some of them for my own blog a bit later tonight, after the little ones have trooped off. quote]I call it the state where everyone, good and bad, is a poison drinker: the state where everyone, good and bad, loses himself: the state where universal slow suicide is called - life.[/quote] {{{shudder}}} Thanks for your post too Rothbardian. A lot of sense there. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>As I said before, some people spout comments "only in an attempt to reach for the most stinging insult of the moment...and not because they are truly racist."<hr></blockquote> My wife and I were having this exact discussion yesterday about how people who are in a certain spiralling and desperate situation will effectively pull the dirt in on top of them by reaching as low as possible.

by **robertdreed** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:12 am

Oh man, good dialogue. Almost all of it, really. One of the things I learned as a cab driver was to take people as they are, and deal with them as they are. For me, that entailed realizing that there are all sorts of prejudices in the world, and the people espousing them are not so much evil as they are trapped- trapped in frames of reference that they have accepted and adopted for a variety of reasons. And sometimes people have what might be termed defensible reasons for their bitterness or antipathy toward various groups. it really is not legitimate to deny the experience of another, and write them off as if their bigotry is damning evidence of their malign character. It is not that simple. I have learned to have some measure of compassion for all sorts of prejudiced people- male-hating lesbians; JDL types; black chauvinists; wrathful anti-Jewish Palestinians; insecure nativist rural whites; all sorts of people suffer from accepting stereotypical ways of thought and relation to the world. And other things that I have taken notice of are lesbians who think that men are okay, even if they are not particularly turned on by them sexually; profoundly universalist-minded Jews; black people- even convicted felons who have done prison time- who are able to relate to white folk without hate; broad-minded, good-humored, accepting "blue collar" white people. Racism and bigotry respond to communication and the unexpected delights of confounding stereotypes. They are not incurable maladies that render someone irredeemable. Although racism and bigotry really is profoundly wrong in a general sense- errors of perception and logic- they are not per se felonies. It is more subtle, and ought to be recognized as such. There is infractional racism and bigotry, misdemeanor racism and bigotry..and yes, there is also felony racism and bigotry, and even capital crime racism and bigotry. But the real problem is Hatred. Exclusively self-centered sociopathy. The latent potential of human awareness to attempt self-exaltation and in-group solidarity by mocking, scapegoating, disparaging, demanding that all forms of social relations ultimately devolve toward revolving around domination and submission principles, in order to serve private egocentric ends. False, illegitimate transcendence. A low vibration.

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:13 am

Yeah sorry about that, I basically quoted an entire chapter from Thus spake Zarathustra. Its called "On the New Idol" I guess he wrote that before reality TV. And Roth sorry about the rant. I dunno what it is about you mate, sometimes you just light my fuse and press my buttons. Peace love and pogues songs.

by **robertdreed** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:17 am

I am not one of those who swoons over the final wisdom of Frederic Nietzsche, but what you quoted is some of his best and most valid material. "I guess he wrote that before reality TV." LOL Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 8/2/06 12:20 am

by **sunny** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 2:56 am

rdr- <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Racism and bigotry respond to communication and the unexpected delights of confounding stereotypes. They are not incurable maladies that render someone irredeemable. Although racism and bigotry really is profoundly wrong in a general sense- errors of perception and logic- they are not per se felonies. It is more subtle, and ought to be recognized as such. There is infractional racism and bigotry, misdemeanor racism and bigotry..and yes, there is also felony racism and bigotry, and even capital crime racism and bigotry. But the real problem is Hatred. Exclusively self-centered sociopathy. The latent potential of human awareness to attempt self-exaltation and in-group solidarity by mocking, scapegoating, disparaging, demanding that all forms of social relations ultimately devolve toward revolving around domination and submission principles, in order to serve private egocentric ends. False, illegitimate transcendence. A low vibration.<hr></blockquote> Truly beautiful and worth repeating. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=sunny@rigorousintuition>sunny</A> at: 8/2/06 12:57 am

by **HMKGrey** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:06 am

Sunny nails it. This has turned out to be a really useful thread. And I've somewhat felt a lack of them recently. It's been all a bit circular and blow hard. But this is great. Big thanks to rdr for those lovely lines.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:09 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>HMW does all his meme analysis bullshit but I bet he wouldn't pick that bigotry you referred to in the film Snatch as pro state propaganda. HMW there's a challenge - find all the pro state pro gov propaganda that is completely emdbedded in our world. BTW Hugh, not all you say is bullshit, thats just typical Aussie loudmouthed rudeness.<hr></blockquote> <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> I like your spirit, Joehillshoist, as long as you don't spill my beer. There isn't a long enough lifetime to find all the pro-state propaganda. How about the President throwing out the first pitch at a baseball game with flags and the national anthem? Just a little meme before bed and then back to Mad Mel the Malevalent. Ya see, baseball represents the nation's mythic meritocracy with the level playing field and the best man winning etc. And that's why Barry Bonds is getting a slow crucifixion, to restore American hostility to blacks to pre-Katrina levels. This is how capitalism is portrayed as moral, by demonizing a representative of the poor to show that rich and poor deserve what they get. Speaking of crucifixion, back to Mel Gibson's public relations problem. Here's my take on Mel Gibson's now-cancelled Holocaust series which was to air on Disney's ABC (CIA) network. The US-Israeli alliance requires friendlying-up each other's public to the other country's public. This is part of the media role of Joe Lieberman and Al Franken, for instance, in a country not historically Jew-friendly. With the US's Nazi past, assuring the Israeli government that the US is their pal is an ongoing campaign. Especially since the US arms all the Arabs around Israel, too. That is exactly what Jonathan Pollard was warning the Israelis about when he was busted by the FBI and sent to solitary to be tortured during an unusually long prison sentence for spying on an ally. <a href="http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/05/08/inter">www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/ar...5/08/inter</a> Mel Gibson's very popular but perceived-as anti-semitic 'The Passions of the Christ' movie is a PR problem for the USA in the eyes of Israelis and others who know how the Christ rap has been hung on the Jews by hostile people for ages along with the Protocols smear of the last 100 years. Israel's policies, especially the recent bombing of Lebanon, create a PR problem for Israel in the eyes of Americans. So I'll bet pressure was put on Gibson to do an Israel-friendly Holocaust series to kill both birds with that one stone. He would serve his penance and heal some of the wounds inflicted (justly or not) by his 'Passions' movie and pluck the American heartstrings with the terrible and now-traditional story we know so well about the Final Solution. Gibson probably resented being put in that position and his frustration spewed out during his DUI bust. Just a hunch.... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 8/2/06 2:17 am

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:24 am

Dunno who barry bonds is. I love sport but baseball seems about as pointless to me as Grid iron. I didn't mean specific prostate propaganda, but more the general thing. you know anarchy is throwing bombs and raping babies in the street. Crime rates don't go down when the cops are on strike... that sort of thing. BTW Have you seen ghosts of the civil dead yet. I am really interested to hear what you think of it. Its a prison movie and very harrowing, but its got Nick Cave in it, and its worth watching it for his performance alone. And it makes him look like a skinny shortarse. I know hes skinny, but hes 6 2 or something. Those boys in Pen must be effing huge. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>One of the great mysteries of aesthetics is where to draw the line between exploitation and art. This problem was addressed by many of those who reviewed Ghosts... of the Civil Dead at the time of its first release in 1989. Here was strong meat – tasteless and confronting! For those of us without direct experience of the prison system, it made us afraid both of the people who are 'contained' within prisons, and of what is being done to these people in our name.<hr></blockquote> From <a href="http://www.sensesofcinema.com/contents/01/19/ghosts.html" target="top">Here</a>

by **rothbardian** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:12 am

Mr. Hillshoist-- Let me see if I can clarify this for you. You were saying that my arguments aren't making sense. My very simple point is this--- People do not always mean what they say. That statement is true. That statement is indisputable. And I can't imagine what there is to NOT understand about it. Now......I do not know if Gibson is or is not racist. And that's just the point-- I am taking exception to the bizarre 'political correctness' regimen that illegitimately claims the above highlighted statement is absolutely NOT true. CANNOT be true. MUST NOT be true. Gibson MUST be found guilty and sent to the Seventh Circle of Hell. Period. (In fairness, I hasten to add-- I am seeing a lot of comments here that DO NOT sign on to this PC regimen, thank goodness.) And the worst of it is...it's based on an anti-intellectual belief in 'comic book'-style superpowers. People who are presuming with their Power Rangers Super Laser Vision to be able to read into your heart and mind. Gibson slips up once, and the PC police...want...him...DEAD (for most intents and purposes). They want his head on a platter. I'm not a Gibson backer, by any means. But I don't like groups of bullies. Air America, for example (which has been completely AWOL on the 9/11 thing) and the rest of these terminally politically correct outfits, have sunk their fangs all the way in, on this one-- I don't like 'piling on'. I don't like mobs, or mob mentalities. And I don't like lynch mobs. By the way, Hillshoist, I just have to ask what's up with this comment from you- "Midwestern traditional christianity...being a self centred egotistical wank of a way of life that takes meaning and pisses it up against the wall. Then rolls in it. Like the mangy dog it is." You spend about 500 words talking about the importance of respectfulness towards other people and cultures--you portray yourself as a guy who has a hair trigger sensor for any kind of "bigotry" and hatefulness...and then you turn around and make a statement like that? Makes no sense to me.

by **havanagilla** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:01 am

What is the official religious stance, of fundie american evangelical Christianity about Islam, or is it just unexplored ? --- I see the deal this way...the warmongers are promising the Jews to "drop the blood lible/jesus" allegations if they join them against Islam ?

by **Joe Hillshoist** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:47 am

Hava thank you very much for putting a viewpoint I was unaware of. Not being Jewish I guess I don't feel those comments the way I feel that pot calling the kettle black one. Back to old matey. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Meanwhile the reality is that many people have, in a moment of uncontrolled anger, spouted off a racial epithet, only in an attempt to reach for the most stinging insult of the moment...and not because they are truly racist. They may have had a bad moment, which they later sincerely regret.<hr></blockquote> Is not <blockquote>Quote:<hr>People do not always mean what they say. <hr></blockquote> For a start. What the flying firetruck is truly racist? Is that like half pregnant? Everyone is racist. To some degree. Well bigoted. You're not? Pull the other one, its got bells on. The trick is to keep that in perspective. My bigotry is only a small part of the reality of other people's lives. If I know that I can keep it under control and notice how it effects my thinking. And act on it how I choose. I choose when and where to indulge my bigotry. Mel Gibson is a dickhead who has been trading of Mad Max and Gallipoli for 25 years. He recently got out of line and offended people in public and needs to be slapped around a bit for it. Either physically or in the media. He's made a living and a fortune off his public persona and this is the price that he has to pay. Tough. Then we can all get on with it and go back to watching or ignoring his movies as we see fit. Its not the same as actually wanting him DEAD. You are not a Gibson fan? Tell me are all Jews responsible for all wars? The people that declared war on me weren't Jews. <blockquote>Quote:<hr>you portray yourself as a guy who has a hair trigger sensor for any kind of "bigotry" and hatefulness...and then you turn around and make a statement like that? Makes no sense to me.<hr></blockquote> I portray myself as a nut from the bush. I don't have a hair trigger for hatefulness just a hair trigger for hatefulness that I don't like. But I am honest with myself. Tell me this - that bit that makes no sense to you... About midwestern USA Christian culture - perhaps it was a thought experiment in saying something I didn't really mean. But I would be lying if i claimed that, cos as I wrote it I noticed I actually felt a little bit that way. Deep down. After all THAT is the culture that declared war on me. Its called the drug war. Just cos I like to smoke pot. I originally wrote that whole quote on the blog. It was a description of western consumer culture in general, actually. I wouldn't have thought about those bible bashers in that way. They try to keep true to their meaning in life, whether I agree with it or not. Does that make a little more sense to you? I mean what do you expect from me some sort of perfection. Get real. I'm as intolerant as anyone, maybe more than most - if i don't control it.

by **rain** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 8:55 am

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I see the deal this way...the warmongers are promising the Jews to "drop the blood lible/jesus" allegations if they join them against Islam ? <hr></blockquote> No hava, it's much more heinous than that. the short version goes something like this. the thumpers, aka evengelicals, and one may have to include a much broader range than that, for their 'second coming', must ostensibly support the jews to rebuild the 'Temple' and then they (the jews) will be given the opportunity to 'convert' or perish. within islam there is also a millenialist strain as well. again focussed on the 'Temple'. for now the islamics hold the ground, hence the requirement to dispense with islam. all these psychopaths seem to want to believe they must have armageddon. it's the final battle for the 'crown' or so the story goes. in more realistic terms it's about ethnic cleansing, massive population redux, social engineering and total, global, control in the face of major climactic and environmental change, and a few other eventualities.

by **yathrib** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:44 am

Rothbardian, you write: "Just starting with the fact that one can observe about a hundred incidents a day, here at RI alone, of what could potentially be construed as bigotry against Christianity/traditional values/ Midwestern/ NormanRockwellian culture et al" Perhaps I could take this more seriously *if* you had not at an earlier date construed my mild skepticism of your theory about Michael W. Smith being a Satanist as "bigotry against Christianity/traditional values/ Midwestern/ NormanRockwellian culture et al." But otherwise, it appears to me as just more of the O'Reillyesque/Dobsonesque/D. James Kennedyesque persecution complex seen most clearly in the imaginary--and comical--"War against Christmas." BAck to the topic at hand: Gibson gave many people what they believed to be good reasons to think he was antisemitic re "passion." I happened to disagree with them in that instance, and still do. Until last Friday, it was possible to credibly argue that these allegations of antisemitism were unfounded, now it is not. Just that simple. As some fundamentalists are fond of saying, some things are just black and white. No persecution, no seventh circle of hell. His career may well be ruined, because many or most people don't like to associate themselves with that sort of thing. Tough. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=yathrib>yathrib</A> at: 8/2/06 8:49 am

by **rain** » Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:19 am

just for a little clarity, Joe, you being an Ozzi-boy 'n' all, just how many shots is .12, and would you or anyone you know be ranting sozzled on that. also, I'm a little perplexed that noone mentioned Opus Dei. coincidentally, caveat being no source, etc, Wayne Madsen is reporting - <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Aug. 1, 2006 -- "Casino Jack" Abramoff attracted one unusual set of customers to his former restaurant, "Signatures." Among the interests who gathered there to lobby and socialize was the Opus Dei, the secretive Catholic cult that counts such members as Sen. Sam Brownback of Kansas, Associate Justice Antonin Scalia, and former FBI Director Louis Freeh, Jr. While Opus Dei members or "supernumeraries" are secret, that apparently did not stop the organization from inviting its A-List members to Abramoff's restaurant to take advantage of the establishment's well-known deal-making services<hr></blockquote> <a href="http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/">www.waynemadsenreport.com/</a> Mel has some heavy-duty compatriots it would seem.

Mel Gibson's DUI and drunken rant

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