The Syria Thread 2011 - Present

[Sounder]

And yet, here is a 'state' you are happy to support.



What about theft as being a distinction that matters?

[dada]

In the larger narrative, theft is not a distinction that matters, no.

In lesser narratives, theft can be a hot topic of distinction. This discussion arises because of a total misunderstanding of property. For the lesser narratives, I refer the reader to Bob Shea and Robert Anton Wilson's Appendix Zain:

Appendix Zain: Property and Privilege

Property is theft. –P.J. Proudhon
Property is Liberty. –P.J. Proudhon
Property is impossible. –P.J. Proudhon
Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. –Ralph Waldo Emerson

Proudhon, by piling up his contradictions this way, was not merely being French; he was trying to indicate that the abstraction “property” covers a variety of phenomena, some pernicious and some beneficial. Let us borrow a device from the semanticists and examine his triad with subscripts attached for maximum clarity.

“Property1 is theft” means that property1, created by the artificial laws of feudal, capitalist, and other authoritarian societies, is based on armed robbery. Land titles, for instance, are clear examples of property1; swords and shot were the original coins of transaction.

“Property2 is liberty” means that property2 that which will be voluntarily honored in a voluntary (anarchist) society, is the foundation of the liberty in that society. The more people’s interests are comingled and confused, as in collectivism, the more they will be stepping on each other’s toes; only when rules of the game declare clearly “This is mine and this is thine,” and the game is voluntarily accepted as worthwhile by all parties to it, can true independence be achieved.

“Property3 is impossible” means that property3 (= property1) creates so much conflict of interest that society is in perpetual undeclared civil war and must eventually devour itself (and properties1 and properties3 as well). In short, Proudhon, in his own way, foresaw the Snafu Principle*. He also forsaw that communism would only perpetuate and aggravate the conflicts, and that anarchy is the only viable alternative to this chaos.

It is not averred, of course, that property2 will come into existence only in a totally voluntary society; many forms of it already exist. The error of most libertarians is to assume that all property1 is property2. The distinction can be made by any IQ above 70 and is absurdly simple. The test is to ask, of any title of ownership you are asked to accept or which you ask others to accept, “Would this be honored in a free society of rationalists, or does it require the armed might of a State to force people to honor it?” If it be the former, it is property2 and represents liberty; if it be the latter, it is property1 and represents theft.

*The Snafu Principle is a sociological notion. In its simplest form, it states that Communication is only possible between equals. In a hierarchy, people inevitably distort the truth when dealing with their superiors, in order to curry favor or escape punishment. As a consequence, said superiors operate from an increasingly distorted view of the world, resulting in bad decisions.

--

I would add that Property2 can't be understood with out understanding Liberty, a difficult concept to grasp. Liberty means give me your tired, your poor, etc. You have the Liberty to help others. The more you help others, the more Liberty you have. How does property equal helping others? This is a question for debate in lesser narratives.

In the greater narrative, intellectual property is the only property that matters. But not the common kind of intellectual property argued about in the artsy ball courts and fancy social ghettos of the lesser narratives. Intellectual property in the greater narrative is simultaneously property1, 2, & 3, and can only be found in a dead man's chest. Yo ho ho.

[American Dream]

The human face of state-sponsored torture in Syrian territory:

Syrian women tortured and humiliated in Assad regime prisons

Muna Muhammad remembers every tiny detail. The stench in the cells, the pain, her torturers. "He pulled a black plastic bag over my head and then he hung me from the ceiling, head down," the 30-year-old says. The memory still haunts her. The guard said he was going to leave her hanging from the ceiling until all her "evil thoughts land in this bag," she remembers.

Muna was a music teacher before she was arrested in 2012 for participating in protests against President Bashar Assad in Deir ez-Zor. She was released, then rearrested and taken to the infamous Military Intelligence Branch 215 facility in Damascus — inmates call it "hell branch" because torture is a daily occurrence.

One day, her torturer showed up with a stun gun. "He said, 'Muna, where is your heart?'" she recalls. "I pointed at my heart, and that's where he zapped me."

Locked away

For months, Muna was locked up in solitary confinement or packed together with other inmates. "One day they interrogated a 16-year-old," she says. "I heard her scream. It was so loud. I thought they must be killing her."

Many women were sexually abused, Muna says, adding that she also faced the threat of rape if she didn't confess.

More: https://www.dw.com/en/syrian-women-tort ... a-43600204

[DrEvil]

And yet, here is a 'state' you are happy to support.



What about theft as being a distinction that matters?

Any chance of summing up this video in a few short sentences? What's the gist of it? I'm not wasting an hour on a bunch of UKIPers, and I'm not giving an anti-feminist gamergate fucktard any extra Youtube views. Thanks in advance.

[American Dream]

Syria conflict: unanswered questions about the Douma 'chemical attack'

Article by: Brian Whitaker
Date: 13th September 2018

A "vast body of evidence" supports claims that a chemical attack took place in Douma earlier this year, the UN Commission of Inquiry on Syria said yesterday.

The reported attack, on April 7, led to airstrikes by American, British and French forces six days later. As on all previous occasions, the Assad regime denied using chemical weapons and was vociferously supported in that by its ally, Russia, which claimed a fake chemical attack had been staged "for the benefit of extremists and their foreign backers".

Yesterday's 24-page report from the UN Commission was a general update on the course of the war and its effects on civilians during the last six months but in a section headed "Ongoing Investigations" it referred specifically to Douma:

"Throughout 7 April, numerous aerial attacks were carried out in Douma, striking various residential areas. A vast body of evidence collected by the Commission suggests that, at approximately 7.30 pm, a gas cylinder containing a chlorine payload delivered by helicopter struck a multi-storey residential apartment building located approximately 100 metres south-west of Shohada Square."

The Commission also said it had "received information on the death of at least 49 individuals, and the wounding of up to 650 others" but added that it "cannot make yet any conclusions concerning the exact causes of death, in particular on whether another agent was used in addition to chlorine that may have caused or contributed to deaths and injuries".

There are several points worth noting in this:

1. Stating that a helicopter was used for the attack clearly indicates the Assad regime was responsible, since rebel fighters have no aircraft.

2. In stating unequivocally that chlorine was used, the Commission has gone further than the preliminary report issued by OPCW investigators in July which said only that samples collected from the scene had tested positive for "various chlorinated organic chemicals".

3. The Commission is unsure what caused the deaths and injuries. It implies that at least some were due to chlorine but is non-committal about whether some other substance was also involved.

4. The Commission's report mentions a single gas cylinder, dropped around 7.30 pm, though the OPCW is currently investigating two cylinders found at separate locations in Douma.

The mention of only one cylinder in the report is especially interesting because it suggests the Commission may have doubts regarding the other one – and there are certainly some puzzling questions about it which have not yet been answered.

Images circulated on social media show one cylinder which had apparently landed on a balcony, smashing a hole through the floor and thus presumably allowing gas to enter the building. This is the cylinder mentioned in the Commission's report.

Continues: https://al-bab.com/blog/2018/09/syria-c ... cal-attack

[American Dream]

13 SEPTEMBER 2018

The Kremlin has weaponised doubt in Syria – and Labour is helping

Labour is parroting Putin and Assad’s propaganda over war crimes in Syria.


woman tries improvised gas masks on children in Idlib province

his week the United Nations’ human rights investigators confirmed what Syrian activists have known for months, forces loyal to the Assad regime fired chlorine on the rebel-held Damascus suburb of Eastern Ghouta and on Idlib province this year, in attacks that constitute war crimes.

The largest attack in Douma earlier this year killed at least 48 civilians and is still being investigated by the UN’s independent chemical weapons monitor, the OPCW. In yesterday’s report, the UN corroborated the view that a regime helicopter was responsible for the attack, saying: "A vast body of evidence... suggests that... a gas cylinder containing a chlorine payload delivered by helicopter struck a... residential apartment building."


It triggered a punitive military response from Britain, France and the United States, but the damage was already done; shortly after the attack, the population of Douma was forcibly displaced to Idlib.

The Assad regime has been using chemical weapons to target Syrian civilians for years, finding it an effective way to demoralise Syrians living in rebel-held towns in order to speed up the forced displacement from those areas. While UN investigators have attributed at least 33 gas attacks to Assad since 2013, including the Sarin attack in Khan Sheikhoun in 2017, the Assad regime and the Russian government have denied every single one, each time responding by blaming the victims, either for gassing themselves or for fabricating the attacks entirely in “false flag” attacks. There is no doubt that certain rebel groups have been guilty of war crimes, but to date, the UN OPCW has found no evidence that any rebel group has ever used or even had access to chemical nerve agents.

Again and again, the Assad regime’s helicopters have bombed a rebel-held region until civilians there are dead or forced to flee to the shrinking territory outside regime control, while its propaganda machine has simultaneously sought command of the airwaves. As the eyes of the world turn towards the potential humanitarian catastrophe of an Assad regime offensive targeting the more than three million civilians living in Idlib, the international community has been justifiably warning of the regime committing yet another major chemical weapons atrocity. So it is no surprise that the Russian state disinformation machine is working overtime to create the pretexts for a new chemical weapons attack in Syria. For weeks now, social media accounts belonging to Russian embassies around the world have been disseminating increasingly hysterical lies about Syrians, baselessly claiming that humanitarian NGOs are working in partnership with the Western media to film faked chemical weapons attacks.

Continues: https://www.newstatesman.com/world/midd ... ur-helping

[Elvis]

Assad regime offensive targeting the more than three million civilians living in Idlib

This is what I was talking about above with the BBC coverage... bizarrely brazen bullshit that makes no sense. If this is the premise, how can any of it be taken seriously? So disappointing, coming from New Stateman. But then so much of the Leftoid press is compromised.

[American Dream]

Here are the Google News hits for "Assad" "Idlib" in the last month:

https://www.google.com/search?q=assad+i ... =623&dpr=1

[Elvis]

Here are the Google News hits for "Assad" "Idlib" in the last month:

https://www.google.com/search?q=assad+i ... =623&dpr=1

No suprise there.

Dick Cheney leaks bogus info, New York Times prints it; Dick Cheney says, "Don't take my word for it—it's right here in the New York Times!"

State Dept. hires shill group, New York Times prints their "news"; U.S. says, "Don't take our word for it, it's right here in the New York Times!"

[Elvis]

Refresher:

Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media

[American Dream]

Tell me about it. I've been on to that stuff most all of my life. The critique is cogent and remains relevant today. I wouldn't want to suggest that a narrative switch towards Russian or Alt Right linked propaganda is better in any way though, so the Devil's in the details.

[dada]

I'd like to explain this one last time, then I'll leave this thread alone. The other posters can continue to do their thing without my interruptions.

I'm not doing it for the benefit of the other posters, I see they can't process this information. To the reader: The greater narrative is narrative control. Competing Syrian narratives vie for control. So, in this case, "who has narrative control?" is the greater narrative.

I think the reader can see how the greater narrative is used. Having narrative control means having the initiative.

It's a basic atari strategy. Not atari 'video games,' atari, Go. Although Bushnell's law does apply; Easy to learn, difficult to master. The elegant simplicity draws the player in.

I wish you good luck in your fight for narrative control.

[JackRiddler]

.

AD, it's all true. Or I figure it is.

From the U.S., the question is still the same, and you are always in denial of it. It's not 2011. It's 2018. There is no Syrian revolution. It died several years ago. There are foreign-backed international jihadis, in whatever their latest mutations are. They hold Idlib province. Do I prefer for the U.S. military to watch the SAA wipe out the remaining Al-Qaeda-by-whatever-name forces -- who would have definitely been worse, if they had won -- or do I prefer for the U.S. military to escalate this thing into a war with Russia? I realize, either way, I'm a spectator to it just like you. It sucks. Hmmm... In any case, neither is likely to happen. Some kind of ugly deal involving Turkey, Iran, Russia and Damascus, and probably not the U.S., is going to settle on a line. Turks on one side and Assad on the other, and the Kurds who had the only genuine defensive forces and the most progressive alternative on the anti-Assad side (as you seemed to have been aware, if we go back in this thread) will suffer horribly as always.

.

[American Dream]

I am most concerned about how ordinary people are suffering now and will suffer in the future, including the ongoing trauma for the millions of survivors who have escaped the actual battlefields.

Realpolitik does have a certain kind of logic but it is not a compelling logic to me. I will not be cheering on this war, nor even an uneasy peace imposed by those who embrace ethnic cleansing, torture and worse as the allegedly better alternative to their cruelest strategies of repression.

All the big powers act viciously but that doesn't make a bloodbath worthy of support. Much less, the peace of the graveyard and of eternal exile, the trauma that does not heal over generations.

[American Dream]

Four ‘heroes’ of today’s global ‘alt-right’ – Assad, Netanyahu, Trump and Putin – have emerged triumphant over the corpse of the Syrian revolution.

Much commentary proclaims that all global and regional powers are responsible for the catastrophe, backing “different sides” to pursue their “rival interests.” All these powers are indeed responsible, but the direct and massive Russian and Iranian intervention on the side of the regime contrasts sharply with the indirect role of the United States, the pretence of friendship to the anti-Assad opposition by neighbouring Arab regimes, and the cynical connivance of Israel, in bringing about the same goal. “Rivalry” and “different sides” had remarkably little to do with it.

The end game shows that inter-imperialist cooperation, rather than the much heralded “inter-imperialist rivalry,” was the major dimension of the foreign intervention in Syria. While it is understandable for beleaguered and outgunned revolutionary forces to take advantage of whatever tactical differences existed among the global and regional powers, there was never any real doubt that they were all ultimately on the same side, that of counterrevolution.

Conventional “geopolitics” emphasises rivalry between imperialist and sub-imperialist powers as the driving force of world politics. This leads to the conclusion that the US was “weak” or “hesitant” for allegedly “giving in” to Russia or “letting Assad off lightly” over his genocide. Repeated ad-nauseum for seven years, this entirely misses the point.

Inter-imperialist rivalry is a major factor in world politics, but confronted with revolution – like the region-wide Arab Spring – states that otherwise hate each other quite easily join forces against their common enemy – the revolutionary populace.

Syria Endgame: Crushing Daraa, the Russia-Israel deal & the Geopolitics of Counterrevolution, by Michael Karadjis

https://mkaradjis.wordpress.com/2018/08 ... evolution/