10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:21 pm

.

MacC, is there any act of murder by an individual you aren't deciding must actually be a false-flag plot? (I'm only mimicking your question to me.)

Does it occur to you that the U.S. is actually several stages into the beginnings of a new Nazi movement, just like many parts of Europe? Do you really want to trivialize it?

Rory » Sat Oct 27, 2018 2:47 pm wrote:Conflating these two separate events is apropos due to them both being part of the same Gladio Op/October Suprisa


It would be, if that were so. It very likely is not.

It is apropos if, as is a thousand times more likely, both acts were incited by the present atmosphere of apocalyptic right-wing panic, and the frequent incitements to commit violence against right-wing targets such as immigrants and refugees, Muslims and Latinos, "liberals," certain avatars of "Democrats," imagined Qanon plotters, and the Jews in charge of everything.

It is also apropos because the two acts merge by being in the same corporate media cycle. Inevitably. How one is received is affected by the presence of the other. This forces us to see a pattern, an association that may or may not apply. That would always be so, although in this case, I think there is a common pattern. But then, I'm stuck in this crazy loop of seriously believing present-day Nazis and their close analogues exist, and are a serious and growing murderous thing.

By exist, furthermore, I do not mean simply as a top-down action to "divide and rule" or play "ordo ab chao" by some covert elite (though doubtless this element has existed in the past and may play a role now), but as a genuine if small minority among the people, of course largely encouraged by the top-down propaganda of American Wahhabi outlets like FOX and Sinclair. Of this minority, the organized and mobilizable are still only in the thousands -- depending on the extent to which NRA membership could be mobilized explicitly -- but the atomized are in the millions. Of the latter, thousands are potentially capable of self-actuating violence that is encouraged by rhetorical and explicit incitement of the kind furnished by Trump since Day 1 of his campaign.

This, of course, dwarfs any model of the "Islamist" threat in the United States that has received such attention (and been the subject of so much energy to entrap and imprison patsies). But it is usually obscured and even catered to, normalized, by the broader culture and the corporate media. I am certainly not advocating an expansion of the surveillance and repressive apparatus. (Although I think it's fine to point out when its resources are overwhelmingly directed at imaginary leftist threats, undocumented people, and the continuing war on drugs/mass incarceration complex, while ignoring or even protecting the right-wing supremacist groups pledged to violence.) An unapologetic general acknowledgment of the existence of this violent white-supremacist and Nazi-in-spirit far right, and an end to the false equivalence narratives and coddling of white fragility that enable it, would be a wondrous start, and rather more pressing than the vast exaggerations about "identity politics" that the liberals who get the biggest platforms pimp out daily.

.
Last edited by JackRiddler on Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby mentalgongfu2 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 5:41 pm

Language allows people to lie to themselves convincingly.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby seemslikeadream » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:31 pm

Yes, This President’s Monstrous Words Make Monsters
OCTOBER 27, 2018 / JOHN PAVLOVITZ

Words are stunningly versatile things.

They have the ability either to create or to destroy, to lift us or to level us, to give us wings to crush us beneath their weight, to inspire us to reach the loftiness parts of our nature or to drive us to the depths of our blackest darkness.

We know this from the way other’s voices have shaped us in both redemptive and debilitating ways.

The words of others can become for us the language for all we harbor unspoken in our hearts; every unfulfilled longing, each unhealed wound, every beautiful aspiration, all the cataloged defeats, each perceived wrongdoing.

And the words of powerful people become catalysts for revolutions; hubs around which multitudes gather in tribes of affinity to create the world they dream of, whether hopeful or horrific. Religious prophets and pop stars and political leaders all tap into the hearts of people in order to move those people’s convictions from heart to hand—to move them.

Cesar Sayoc is the logical manifestation of the language of this President.

He is the sum total of his every reckless insult, irresponsible untruth, and calculated attack; the disfigured Frankensteined monster, made from every factless conspiracy theory and incendiary rally rant, each corrosive verbal attack on people of color and immigrants and women and the media.

Cesar Sayoc is the clear accumulation of a seemingly endless Presidential Twitter feed, filled with nonsensical ramblings, spewed from the head of a man who feels no accountability for the collateral damage of his words—either on those who are his targets—or those weaponized by him against them.

The words of a President weigh more than perhaps anyone else’s. There is a gravity to the voices of our leaders that corporately shape us in ways few things do. They have always determined the trajectory of our nation, carried us through unthinkable tragedy, clarified who we are as a people, driven us to reach for dreams that we believed were beyond us.

The words of a President, when wielded responsibly and with decency, help us to tap into our shared humanity; to remind us of our interdependence, of our commonalities, of the responsibility we have toward one another.

But when tossed around carelessly, the words of a President (like this President), ratify people’s phobias, stoke the fires of their bitterness, sanction the violence they cultivate in their heads, legitimize their irrational bigotry toward their neighbors.

Cesar Sayoc isn’t a surprise.

He may be an terrifyingly extreme extension of this President’s words, but he finds himself on a long and growing continuum of millions of angry, scared, unloved, people who believe the world has wronged them—and now have someone (the most powerful someone), to tell them that they are right.

Whether it’s in racial epithets screamed at strangers in traffic, xenophobic signs posted near voting booths, venomous racists social media diatribes from grandmothers, xenophobic outbursts at holiday meals, or vans plastered with anti-media propaganda—monsters are being made by this President’s words.

Yes, words make things and they kill things.

Cesar Sayoc is the kind of monster this President has helped create in unhinged campaign rants and social media tantrums and “lock her up” chants” and dehumanizing rhetoric—and the worst of it all, is that he seems oblivious to his culpability, defiant in his outrage, and determined to double down, no matter how many people he places in harm’s way.

He refuses to use his words for anything but division and injury and enmity, and so those so desiring war, those seeking consent, those who share his heart—find license to be horrible.

This President is a monster-maker.

It’s time we admitted it.

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2018/10/27/ye ... -monsters/
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby JackRiddler » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:23 pm

mentalgongfu2 » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:41 pm wrote:Language allows people to lie to themselves convincingly.


But all-purpose platitudes do it in the pithiest way.

.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby liminalOyster » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:39 pm

Mail bomb suspect's personality changed radically
TERRY SPENCER and ELLIS RUA
Associated Press•October 27, 2018

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. (AP) — Thirteen years ago, mail bomb suspect Cesar Sayoc traveled the country leading a mixed-race troupe of male exotic dancers — he ran scams and had a temper, but a fellow dancer who is African-American said he never expressed racism or homophobia.

Years later, working as a pizza driver, Sayoc would often express hatred for minorities, Jews and gays, his manager said. He drove a van plastered with stickers supporting President Donald Trump, criticizing media outlets and showing rifle crosshairs over liberals like Hillary Clinton and filmmaker Michael Moore. But she kept him around, even though she is a lesbian, because he was honest, dependable and never got into fights.

Why Sayoc changed so radically over the years remains a mystery, but to those who know him, there seems little question that he did.

"We were friends, we were boys, we traveled in the same van, slept in the same room," said former dancer David Crosby, who is black. "When I think of the guy I knew and the guy I see now on MSNBC, CNN and at Trump rallies, I think, 'Did he really slip?'" He thinks Trump's sometimes bombastic criticism of liberals may have pushed Sayoc over the edge .

"He really wasn't a bad guy," a puzzled Crosby said.

But former pizza restaurant manager Debra Gureghian said that while Sayoc originally came across as respectful, articulate and polite, within days a dark side emerged and he told her he was disgusted by her sexuality.

"I was an abomination, I was God's misfit ... I was a mistake," Gureghian said of her former employee, who quit his job earlier this year. Sayoc thought she "should burn in hell with Ellen DeGeneres and Rachel Maddow... and President Obama and Hillary Clinton."

Sayoc, 56, was arrested Friday near Fort Lauderdale and is charged federally with mailing at least 13 mail bombs to prominent Democrats and other frequent targets of conservative ire, including former President Barack Obama, former Vice President Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton and the cable network CNN. He is scheduled to make his first court appearance Monday.

That radicalism is a stark contrast to the mid-2000s, when Sayoc managed and performed with two male-dance revues — "Men of Steel" and "American Hunks." He never expressed political views back then, Crosby said.

"I don't know if he was a Democrat or Republican," said Crosby, who now runs a gym and is a comedian near Minneapolis.

Along with three or four other chiseled men, Crosby and Sayoc traveled the country by van, stripping to G-strings for screaming women in honkytonks and nightclubs. They would check into a motel, perform, bring women back to party, sleep a few hours and then get up early the next morning to drive several hours to the next gig.

"It's a hard life," Crosby said, quite seriously. The partying, bad food and lack of exercise takes a toll, he said.

Sayoc hosted, then danced last. Crosby said he and the other all-but-naked dancers would bring women up on stage, make them and their friends laugh and do some sexual innuendo — except Sayoc, who wasn't a good performer.

He said Sayoc would have women sit in a chair, get between their legs and drive his pelvis into theirs hard — "bang, bang."

"The chair is bouncing off the wall, their head is bouncing off the wall," Crosby said. Sometimes, he would bite the women's exposed skin hard enough to leave teeth marks. Crosby said women would complain to the other dancers that Sayoc was too rough, but no one ever called the police.

He said Sayoc had a "zero to 100" temper and would sometimes use his 6-foot, 250-pound (1.8-meter, 113-kilogram) frame to intimidate other men.

"If he wasn't happy about something, he would definitely let you know," Crosby said.

Still, he never saw Sayoc hit anyone and he treated his employees well — though he would sometimes scam the shows' financial backers.

For example, Crosby said Sayoc would sometimes drive separately in his own older van, though not the now infamous one he was arrested with. He would then take parts from the troupe's newer van, which was owned by an investor, and swap them with dying parts from his clunker, Crosby said. Sayoc would then ask the investor to pay for the troupe van's now-needed repairs.

Twelve years later, however, when Sayoc worked for Gureghian at New River Pizza in Fort Lauderdale, honesty and reliability were his job-saving attributes. He never stole and customers never complained, Gureghian said.

But until he quit earlier this year, he regularly subjected co-workers to fiery political rants. Gureghian called his views "pure hatred."

He detested liberals, blacks, Jews and especially gays, who he called slurs, Gureghian said.

Gureghian said Sayoc used his van for deliveries and one rainy night he offered her a ride home.

"The first thing I did was kind of look to make sure — God forbid — if something happened, can I open that door to get out and how do I tuck and roll?" she said.

Sayoc lived in the van and Gureghian said it was a mess. There were empty containers from fast-food restaurants, men's fitness supplements and alcoholic beverages. Dirty clothes were everywhere.

And, ominously, there were dolls with their heads cut off.

"He told me he was fixing them for his two nieces," Gureghian said.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/mail-bomb-su ... 05110.html
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby Elvis » Sat Oct 27, 2018 11:28 pm

^^^^ data point.

We can now be certain that MKULTRA-type programming has been deployed for political assassination.

If anyone hasn't seen this film, watch the whole thing:

The Real Manchurian Candidate
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCU2MCxjAJ0


We can safely assume that such operations were/are carried out on a wider scale, very possibly on a much, much wider scale.

Anyone trying to reframe another's comments about acts of terror and political crimes as siding with proponents or apologists of rightwing violence can expect to be suspended.


This declaration is based on legitimate member complaints. Enough is enough.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:24 am

trump leaves the stage following a MAGA campaign rally at the Southern Illinois Airport Hangar 6, in Murphysboro, IL,

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Leah McElrath
Leah McElrath
@leahmcelrath
·
3h
Hitler used the word “Endseig” or “ultimate victory” in Mein Kampf.

Tonight - on the very eve of the deadliest attack on the Jewish community in U.S. history - Donald Trump gives a speech concluding by talking about “total victory.”

And the Republican Party tweets it out.



Josh Marshall
@joshtpm
Straight out of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Just moments ago, Lou Dobbs guest Chris Farrell (head of Judicial Watch) says Caravan is being funded/directed by the "Soros-occupied State Department".



Synagogue shooting suspect just charged with 29 federal counts of violence & firearms offenses.

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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 am

liminalOyster » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:39 pm wrote:
Mail bomb suspect's personality changed radically


Reading the same article, with its accounts from two sources, I question the framing conveyed by the headline.

The accounts cover a period of 20 years, a span usually associated with adverbs like "gradually" rather than "radically." They make it seem like he was always an asshole, but one who lost self-control over time -- I would guess as a function of losing control over the circumstances of his life. Both of the sources interviewed relate having had more patience with him than many others would have shown. I find the lesbian woman's patience astonishing in tolerating him after his sick speech about lesbians. People as they age and lose control often descend into greater bitterness, simplified scapegoating, and more open expressions of anger.

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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:25 am

Elvis » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:28 pm wrote:Anyone trying to reframe another's comments about acts of terror and political crimes as siding with proponents or apologists of rightwing violence can expect to be suspended.


What about as effectively sidelining or trivializing right-wing violence in the course of pursuing an argument? Because I see some of that here. Not people who apologize or side with right-wing violence, but who treat it as irrelevant and as a distraction. (That's on this thread; on others we see false equivalence with imaginary or inflated leftist violence.) On this thread and others, I see people constructing absolutely every act of political violence as the product of a Gladio 3.0 that sadly divides the good people on both sides. No, I do not think the sheep are being artificially split from their potential friends, the wolves. Last week an organized and funded network of neo-brownshirts, no longer in brownshirts but led by a rich Hitler in hipster garb, a man who in his radio show urges murdering perceived political opponents on the street without hesitation, was hosted by the New York Republican club at their posh quarters. They then went on a bully-boy street-stomping rampage for several blocks while the cops watched and arrested not them but their targets. I do not think this is secretly funded by "globalists" planning an ordo-ab-chao sentiment. I see that it is supported by leading Republicans in harmony with the first sprouts of an exterminate-the-brutes operation. This is in NYC! I don't fucking care to hear how far they are from achieving genocide when their purpose is to get there.

.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:55 am



Trump Rolls Out Anti-Semitic Closing Ad


By Josh Marshall
November 5, 2016 8:22 pm
Take a moment to look at this closing ad from Donald Trump.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vST61W4bGm8

From a technical and thematic perspective it’s a well made ad. It’s also packed with anti-Semitic dog whistles, anti-Semitic tropes and anti-Semitic vocabulary. I’m not even sure whether it makes sense to call them dog whistles. The four readily identifiable American bad guys in the ad are Hillary Clinton, George Soros (Jewish financier), Janet Yellen (Jewish Fed Chair) and Lloyd Blankfein (Jewish Goldman Sachs CEO).

The Trump narration immediately preceding Soros and Yellin proceeds as follows: “The establishment has trillions of dollars at stake in this election. For those who control the levers of power in Washington [start Soros] and for the global [start Yellen] special interests [stop Yellen]. They partner with these people [start Clinton] who don’t have your good in mind.”

For Blankfein: “It’s a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth and put that money into the [start Blankein] pockets of a handful of large corporations [stop Blankfein] and political entities.”

These are standard anti-Semitic themes and storylines, using established anti-Semitic vocabulary lined up with high profile Jews as the only Americans other than Clinton who are apparently relevant to the story. As you can see by my transcription, the Jews come up to punctuate specific key phrases. Soros: “those who control the levers of power in Washington”; Yellen “global special interests”; Blankfein “put money into the pockets of handful of large corporations.”


This is an anti-Semitic ad every bit as much as the infamous Jesse Helms ‘white hands’ ad or the Willie Horton ad were anti-African-American racist ads. Which is to say, really anti-Semitic. You could even argue that it’s more so, given certain linguistic similarities with anti-Semitic propaganda from the 1930s. But it’s not a contest. This is an ad intended to appeal to anti-Semites and spread anti-Semitic ideas. That’s the only standard that really matters.

This is intentional and by design. It is no accident.

Trump has electrified anti-Semites and racist groups across the country. His own campaign has repeatedly found itself speaking to anti-Semites, tweeting their anti-Semitic memes, retweeting anti-Semites. His campaign manager, Steven Bannon, is an anti-Semite. The Breitbart News site he ran and will continue running after the campaign has become increasingly open in the last year with anti-Semitic attacks and politics.

Beyond that, this shouldn’t surprise us for a broader reason. Authoritarian, xenophobic political movements, which the Trump campaign unquestionably is, are driven by tribalism and ‘us vs them’ exclusion of outsiders. This may begin with other groups – Mexican immigrants, African-Americans, Muslims. It almost always comes around to Jews.

It’s true there is son-in-law Jared Kushner, a Jew and Ivanka, who converted to Judaism. But this isn’t terribly surprising. Kushner appears to be conscienceless. And as I noted here, there is a storied history of anti-Semites being happy to distinguish between good Jews and bad Jews.


There’s been a lot of discussion of anti-Semitism and the Trump campaign but a fierce resistance to coming to grips with the fact that anti-Semitism is a key driving force of the Trump campaign, that the campaign itself is an anti-Semitic one even though the great majority of Trump’s supporters are not anti-Semites. When he closes out his campaign with a blatantly anti-Semitic ad, it’s time to rethink that resistance.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/tr ... closing-ad
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby dada » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:11 am

JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 am wrote:. People as they age and lose control often descend into greater bitterness, simplified scapegoating, and more open expressions of anger.


Yet people often mellow over time, as well.

I agree that the insinuating headline is a fail. I think the influence of social media can explain many changes in people's thinking and behavior over the last ten years. Some are just more suggestible than others. Add to this, that guy was getting positive reinforcement from being something of a celebrity at the Donald events he attended, and you have a pretty reasonable and obvious explanation for this particular kind of personality change. Occam's razor, and all.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby seemslikeadream » Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:26 am

Laura Ingraham is currently warning that the migrant caravan could be infested with rabies and other diseases

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Classic extremist dehumanization tactic; cf. "A recurrent theme in Nazi antisemitic propaganda was that Jews spread diseases



Joyce Fienberg, 75
Richard Gottfried, 65
Rose Mallinger, 97
Jerry Rabinowitz, 66
Cecil Rosenthal, 59
David Rosenthal, 54
Bernice Simon, 84
Sylvan Simon, 86
Daniel Stein, 71
Melvin Wax, 88
Irving Younger, 69


Rep. Kevin McCarthy Deletes Tweet Singling Out 3 Jews Helping Bankroll Democrats

The Republican leader warned that the wealthy donors are trying to "buy" the midterm election.
By Mary Papenfuss
10/28/2018 12:45 AM ET
|
Updated 59 minutes ago
House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) deleted a tweet that had warned that three wealthy Jewish Democrats are “buying” the midterm elections for their party, a posting that appeared after liberal billionaire philanthropist George Soros ― one of his targets ― had been sent a pipe bomb.

The McCarthy tweet — which also named former New York mayor Michael Bloomberg and California businessman Tom Steyer — was taken down three days before a gunman killed 11 people Saturday in an anti-Semitic attack at The Tree of Life, a Pittsburgh synagogue.

Soros has been accused by right-wing conspiracy theorists of orchestrating a range of political activities and events, including most recently the migrant caravan heading to the southern U.S. border and the protests on Capitol Hill that unsuccessfully sought to block Brett Kavanaugh’s confirmation to the Supreme Court nominee. Earlier this month President Donald Trump said at a campaign rally that people criticizing Kavanaugh were “paid for by Soros — or somebody else.”

The man arrested in the synagogue shooting, Robert Bowers, blamed Jews for the caravan in a social media post.

McCarthy could not immediately be reached by Huffpost for comment about why he deleted the tweet. But his message danced dangerously close to well-trod anti-Semitic attacks that portray Jews as the central members of a wealthy international cabal that secretly controls the world.




McCarthy posted a new tweet after the Pittsburgh synagogue massacre, saying that the “heinous attacks on Tree of Life synagogue perpetrated by anti-Semitism and hate will not shake our love for each other.”

Soros’ son, Alexander Soros, blamed “hate” for the series of pipe bombs sent to Democratic political figures and other targets of harsh attacks from Trump, including his father.

Alexander Soros wrote in a New York Times Op-Ed published on Wednesday that his father’s philanthropic efforts, which seek to “support those who promote societies where everyone has a voice,” have been a target of vicious attacks, many “dripping with the poison of anti-Semitism.”

The attacks have become much worse since Trump embarked on his presidential campaign in 2015, Soros said. He noted that Trump’s candidacy was endorsed by “white supremacist and anti-Semite David Duke,” a former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. That’s when extremism began to slip into the mainstream of U.S. politics, the younger Soros said.


“A genie was let out of the bottle, which may take generations to put back in, ” he warned.

Florida resident Cesar Sayoc was arrested Friday and charged for the series of pipe bomb mailings. The van he was living in was plastered with photos of Trump, pro-Trump slogans and images of the president’s targets with gunsight crosshairs over their faces.


https://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_5bd4 ... ssion=true
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby liminalOyster » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:54 pm

JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 am wrote:
liminalOyster » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:39 pm wrote:
Mail bomb suspect's personality changed radically


Reading the same article, with its accounts from two sources, I question the framing conveyed by the headline.

The accounts cover a period of 20 years, a span usually associated with adverbs like "gradually" rather than "radically." They make it seem like he was always an asshole, but one who lost self-control over time -- I would guess as a function of losing control over the circumstances of his life. Both of the sources interviewed relate having had more patience with him than many others would have shown. I find the lesbian woman's patience astonishing in tolerating him after his sick speech about lesbians. People as they age and lose control often descend into greater bitterness, simplified scapegoating, and more open expressions of anger.

.


Bad headline sure but I read the implied statement as suggesting that Trump was the catalyst for the "sudden" change.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby dada » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:45 pm

A catalyst implies there must be some substance or substances already present to be catalyzed, though. Donald as a spark that set something off in this case.

Social media effects people in various ways, like alcohol, or a narcotic. In my experience, I've seen it how it can change the personalities of those who are sensitive and susceptible to the effects, similar to alcoholics. As I'm sure many others have.
Both his words and manner of speech seemed at first totally unfamiliar to me, and yet somehow they stirred memories - as an actor might be stirred by the forgotten lines of some role he had played far away and long ago.
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Re: 10 Pipe Bombs Sent to Prominent Democrats, Trump critics

Postby Elvis » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:07 pm

Good observations Jack, and to the extent RI can be self-correcting, the false equivalence with imaginary or inflated leftist violence in karmamatters' "left violence" thread was an example. I think your very good argument there was, in the end, taken to heart by karmamatters. It's best to work these issues out in discussion when possible. Feel free to repost your below in the Rhetoric sticky thread where it can be hashed out further without interrupting the breaking "pipe bombs" story in this thread.

JackRiddler » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:25 am wrote:
Elvis » Sat Oct 27, 2018 10:28 pm wrote:Anyone trying to reframe another's comments about acts of terror and political crimes as siding with proponents or apologists of rightwing violence can expect to be suspended.


What about as effectively sidelining or trivializing right-wing violence in the course of pursuing an argument? Because I see some of that here. Not people who apologize or side with right-wing violence, but who treat it as irrelevant and as a distraction. (That's on this thread; on others we see false equivalence with imaginary or inflated leftist violence.) On this thread and others, I see people constructing absolutely every act of political violence as the product of a Gladio 3.0 that sadly divides the good people on both sides. No, I do not think the sheep are being artificially split from their potential friends, the wolves. Last week an organized and funded network of neo-brownshirts, no longer in brownshirts but led by a rich Hitler in hipster garb, a man who in his radio show urges murdering perceived political opponents on the street without hesitation, was hosted by the New York Republican club at their posh quarters. They then went on a bully-boy street-stomping rampage for several blocks while the cops watched and arrested not them but their targets. I do not think this is secretly funded by "globalists" planning an ordo-ab-chao sentiment. I see that it is supported by leading Republicans in harmony with the first sprouts of an exterminate-the-brutes operation. This is in NYC! I don't fucking care to hear how far they are from achieving genocide when their purpose is to get there.

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