Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Who will be the actual Democratic candidate?

Sen. Harris
3
12%
Sen. Klobuchar
0
No votes
Sen. Warren
1
4%
Stacey Abrams
1
4%
Michelle Obama
4
16%
Secretary Clinton
4
16%
Gov. Whitmer
1
4%
Other VP candidate (click this and specify below)
3
12%
Brokered convention surprise: Other (click and specify)
3
12%
Rope-a-dope: Biden implodes, Sanders re-emerges
5
20%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Elvis » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:17 am

Iamwhomiam wrote:Re- Clinton ~ Even though it took me years to learn how damaging a balanced budget could be.

:thumbsup

When any of these tools says, "We have to balance the budget!"—they're either sadly misinformed, or they're lying.

Either way—they're dangerous.

Robert Rubin persuaded Clinton to pursue a balanced budget. Consequently, savings previously invested in Treasury bonds had to find a new home. Rubin's alma mater, Goldman Sachs, was ready for the run to safety with its toxic "AAA" mortgage instruments (the ones that wrecked the global economy and fortified Goldman's position in the Wall Street predator pack). Coincidence? :roll:

Through Rubin's influence in government, Goldman created the customer base for its fraudulent products by constraining its chief competitor in the "safe asset" market—the United States government.

That's extremely fucked up.

So, now, Jamie Dimon is advising Biden. The scheme worked so well last time, why wouldn't they try a variation?

Dimon Says Government Deficits, Spending Are New Global Risk

Of course he would say that.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Elvis » Sat Aug 15, 2020 1:21 am

Now back to the Kamala riot.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Grizzly » Sat Aug 15, 2020 6:42 am

Image

Image

PHUQ Kamala, A YEAR FROM NOW OR NOW. She needs another Tulsi smack-down.

Image

Remember, these fucks just went on vacation while millions drowning in pandemic unemployment...
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People

Postby Cordelia » Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:16 pm





Typed a longer post but lost it due to my laptop (and now keypad) malfunctioning so it's about to be thrown out the window sent to the shop. What can be said about the videos anyway except

Image
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby conniption » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:57 pm

strategic-culture
(embedded links)

In Seattle, a Yugoslavia Déjà Vu

Stephen Karganovic
June 25, 2020


Sensible people with a modicum of historical perspective are raising the question that until recently they dared only whisper: Quo vadis United States of America?

We can delegate to specialists debate over the ultimate nature and causes of the current unrest in the United States. The focus here is not on that but on one of the more ominous characteristics of the crisis, whatever its origins might be judged to be. In the Capitol Hill neighbourhood of Seattle two weeks ago, for the first time since the Civil War in the 1860s, something purporting to be a competing government was established on U.S. territory. So far, the organized forces of society, the legitimate (should we say condescendingly, the “internationally recognized”?) government, have not reacted to that challenge in any way, other than to meekly submit to some of the usurpers’ most outrageous demands. Those demands have so far centered mainly on preliminary issues such as “defunding” local law and order forces and restricting the range of tools available to them to deal with lawlessness. The resulting demoralization and disorientation of the police force, engendered by the cowardly and politically short-sighted capitulation of city of Seattle and state of Washington political leaders, is bound to have grave consequences later on. At some time in the near future, the foolishly emboldened terrorists will have to be suppressed by those same policemen (perhaps even assisted by regular army troops) once the evils released from Pandora’s box multiply and the civil breakdown becomes extensive and intolerable.

The gift of prophecy would have been unnecessary, historical perspective being enough, to accurately foresee the gangrenous spread of the Capitol Hill model elsewhere in the country, once goon squads who were trained, poised, and waiting for the authorities to demonstrate their fecklessness got the message that they could engage in repercussion-free rampages. Predictably, new “liberated zones,” run by elements that would not be described inaccurately as terrorists, are now emerging elsewhere, in Portland, Atlanta, and Minneapolis. To drive the point home, the local Seattle warlord and his henchmen have put up highly provocative signs at exit points from their illegally seized domain: “You are entering the United States of America.”

This still is not an American replay of 1917 Russia, but it might be approaching Russia’s 1905. Or, to suggest a contemporary and perhaps more meaningful analogy, it may be a re-enactment of the initial stages of the Yugoslav dissolution process detonated in the early 1990s.

Minor technical differences being duly acknowledged (the Yugoslav collapse was induced with ethnic tensions as the principal driver, while in the U.S. that role is assigned to racial tensions), there still remain impressive broad analogies. In early 90s Yugoslavia, the federal government also was disunited in purpose and political program. Latent separatisms that had kept a low profile while the economy was good and, mostly by inertia, the centralist idea still enjoyed a measure of prestige, suddenly emerged as respectable options and began to attract adherents. Violence broke out at selected points in Yugoslavia (it is still unclear who selected them and according to what criteria), as if to test the will and capacity of bewildered government structures to protect citizens and impose order. Demands to reconfigure the Yugoslav federation, rather than to deal directly with the rising tide of disorder, were put forward by demagogic local leaders who seized the attention of a divided and confused public. It soon became clear that the demagogues’ goal was not to improve the federation but to seize parts of it and turn them into their own “independent” fiefdoms. With the growing irrelevance of the central authorities, international mediation, unmistakably favouring the centripetal forces, was imposed. The “death of Yugoslavia” (as someone famously put it) was assured, and those who directed the process were obviously keen that the decedent’s rigour mortis be as uncontrollably violent as possible.

Yugoslavia scarcely would have died if influential elements within the governing apparatus had not seen advantages for themselves in helping to undermine its vitality and cohesion. Whether or not they precisely envisaged the ultimate consequences of their conduct is an intriguing question, but for the moment it can be set aside. The destroyers from outside the system and their enablers from within the system worked in tandem because they saw their separate agendas converging at certain key points. Ultimately the enablers from within the system set in motion forces that undermined their own authority, and when the smoke had cleared they were unceremoniously swept aside.

Only someone cognitively dissonant or wilfully blind will fail to sense a disturbingly similar pattern playing itself out in post-corona America.

Here is an example that should ring alarm bells. In the already entrenched “autonomous zone” of Seattle a few days ago a murder occurred and another citizen was wounded in the shootout. But here’s the rub: “The shooting happened at about 3 am in the area near downtown known as the Chaz, short for ‘Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone’, police said in a statement on Twitter. Seattle’s police department claimed in a press release on Saturday morning that when officers responded to reports of gunshots inside the protest zone, they ‘were met by a violent crowd that prevented officers safe access to the victims’.”

The police were successfully prevented from performing one of their basic functions, in this case not mob control, but simply investigating a crime scene and assisting victims.

The hooligans then sent a clear message who is in charge: “Police were later informed that the protesters’ own medics transported the two gunshot wound victims to a hospital, the department said.”

City authorities put their tail between their legs and did nothing about it. Inhabitants of the former Yugoslavia would have no difficulty interpreting the portentous significance of this comparatively minor incident and drawing proper conclusions from it.

Should it come as a surprise, then, that police in Atlanta are now inventing pretexts not to come to work and that they are increasingly refusing to respond to emergency 911 calls? Their stated rationale, that they are acting in solidarity with one of their colleagues who is being criminally prosecuted for shooting a black man to death under controversial circumstances, sounds rather indeed. But their underlying concern is serious enough, and it is a symptom of the slow disintegration of the system. Policemen see the writing on the wall and know that standard rules for dealing with lawlessness have been suspended. They do not want to risk being exposed to criminal charges for making a politically incorrect decision in a tense situation. Quite sensibly, they prefer not to be cannon fodder in confrontational games between the various warring factions of the political elite.

The process of controlled demolition has started and it is in its initial stages. Unless firm and decisive steps are taken now to counteract it using methods more civilized and professional, and less inflammatory, than those applied to the Branch Davidians, the emerging trends will at every turn become more difficult to control and reverse. Police forces are by definition the first line of defense of a cohesive and orderly society. Their demoralization and withdrawal of social support for the proper execution of their task augurs ill for the body politic in question.

All that may be music for the ears of Professor Panarin, of course strictly in his capacity as a scholarly predictor of political trends (and here). Panarin, however, has the privilege of watching the unfolding of his increasingly fashionable ideas from a safe distance. The show is less fun to watch from ground zero.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... a-deja-vu/


More interesting articles by the author, Stephen Karganovic at Strategic Culture, HERE.
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An Hour Well Spent

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:31 am

Cush video below is a brilliant strategic understanding of the situation and a movement response to it, and it's not what you expect.

It's also not "Yugoslavia" as an imminent future. (Key element lacking for "Yugoslavia" : An outside superpower working to make it happen. Fascist movements that are revolutionary, rather than simply deputized adjuncts to a repressive re-enforcement of the status quo.)

It's about a new higher fusion of state and corporation (as liminal said, maybe in the Russia thread, can you believe "Strategy of Tension" is trending?). Corporation as state in a post-consumerist technocratized daily reality with stable hyperrepression normalized as something you do in cooperation with your badge or wristband, and what movements can and cannot do in preventing it.

It's also about the false dichotomy of class vs. 'identity' or race, without ignoring or denigrating either. I think he finds exactly the right balance, and is brilliant in his understanding of the historical examples. (Do I agree on all? Is he my guru? No.)

Also, funny. You may or may not enjoy the opening song.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dy3RaKzCCL8

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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby thrulookingglass » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:15 pm

I voted here today. It was Markey vs Kennedy. Gave in to camelot i guess. There aren't a lot of competent 74yr olds around here, doesn't give me good faith. Though I like our pseudo-leftist representation we get here in MA (Ayanna Presley, Warren). Felt impotent as ever, voting that is.

A lot of small businesses as well as restaurants/bars are closing here. Not liking it.

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If only I had known

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:32 pm

I'd have done my best to get you to vote for Markey, AOC's ally in the Senate and co-sponsor of the New Deal, over Kennedy, callow neoliberal with bogus royal appeal.

C'est la vie.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Iamwhomiam » Tue Sep 01, 2020 11:02 pm

Feel the same way, Jack. Voting out Markey now will cost Massachusetts a huge loss, his position the committees and subcommittees his sits on. Camelot ended with a bang a long time ago. The only Kennedys worth listening to these days are the dead ones; your choice.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby norton ash » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:11 am

I can't wait for the return of JFK Jr. cause he's going to take out the Clintons with a phaser. Q is always right.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby SonicG » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:47 pm

I dunno...I first heard Ray saying this in that non-Jello DKs documentary, but it sounds like horseshit to me...

However, despite popular belief, the name was not meant to insult the Kennedy family, but according to Ray, "the assassinations were in much more poor taste than our band. We actually respect the Kennedy family. . . . When JFK was assassinated, when Martin Luther King was assassinated, when RFK was assassinated, the American Dream was assassinated. . . . Our name is actually homage to the American Dream.”
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Markey wins, Morse doesn't.

Postby JackRiddler » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:48 pm

Wish that Neal had been unseated!
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Re: If only I had known

Postby Spiro C. Thiery » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:08 am

JackRiddler » 01 Sep 2020, 19:32 wrote:I'd have done my best to get you to vote for Markey, AOC's ally in the Senate and co-sponsor of the New Deal, over Kennedy, callow neoliberal with bogus royal appeal.

C'est la vie.


I hasten by to hijack Jack's comment to muse on behalf of HMW whether or not Kennedy's loss and the subsequent widespread summary thereof presented as "a dynasty's demise" was a keyword hijack of this:


edited out "distillation"
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby Joe Hillshoist » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:44 pm

conniption » 01 Sep 2020 09:57 wrote:
strategic-culture
(embedded links)

In Seattle, a Yugoslavia Déjà Vu

Stephen Karganovic
June 25, 2020


Sensible people with a modicum of historical perspective are raising the question that until recently they dared only whisper: Quo vadis United States of America?

We can delegate to specialists debate over the ultimate nature and causes of the current unrest in the United States. The focus here is not on that but on one of the more ominous characteristics of the crisis, whatever its origins might be judged to be. In the Capitol Hill neighbourhood of Seattle two weeks ago, for the first time since the Civil War in the 1860s, something purporting to be a competing government was established on U.S. territory. So far, the organized forces of society, the legitimate (should we say condescendingly, the “internationally recognized”?) government, have not reacted to that challenge in any way, other than to meekly submit to some of the usurpers’ most outrageous demands. Those demands have so far centered mainly on preliminary issues such as “defunding” local law and order forces and restricting the range of tools available to them to deal with lawlessness. The resulting demoralization and disorientation of the police force, engendered by the cowardly and politically short-sighted capitulation of city of Seattle and state of Washington political leaders, is bound to have grave consequences later on. At some time in the near future, the foolishly emboldened terrorists will have to be suppressed by those same policemen (perhaps even assisted by regular army troops) once the evils released from Pandora’s box multiply and the civil breakdown becomes extensive and intolerable.

The gift of prophecy would have been unnecessary, historical perspective being enough, to accurately foresee the gangrenous spread of the Capitol Hill model elsewhere in the country, once goon squads who were trained, poised, and waiting for the authorities to demonstrate their fecklessness got the message that they could engage in repercussion-free rampages. Predictably, new “liberated zones,” run by elements that would not be described inaccurately as terrorists, are now emerging elsewhere, in Portland, Atlanta, and Minneapolis. To drive the point home, the local Seattle warlord and his henchmen have put up highly provocative signs at exit points from their illegally seized domain: “You are entering the United States of America.”

This still is not an American replay of 1917 Russia, but it might be approaching Russia’s 1905. Or, to suggest a contemporary and perhaps more meaningful analogy, it may be a re-enactment of the initial stages of the Yugoslav dissolution process detonated in the early 1990s.

Minor technical differences being duly acknowledged (the Yugoslav collapse was induced with ethnic tensions as the principal driver, while in the U.S. that role is assigned to racial tensions), there still remain impressive broad analogies. In early 90s Yugoslavia, the federal government also was disunited in purpose and political program. Latent separatisms that had kept a low profile while the economy was good and, mostly by inertia, the centralist idea still enjoyed a measure of prestige, suddenly emerged as respectable options and began to attract adherents. Violence broke out at selected points in Yugoslavia (it is still unclear who selected them and according to what criteria), as if to test the will and capacity of bewildered government structures to protect citizens and impose order. Demands to reconfigure the Yugoslav federation, rather than to deal directly with the rising tide of disorder, were put forward by demagogic local leaders who seized the attention of a divided and confused public. It soon became clear that the demagogues’ goal was not to improve the federation but to seize parts of it and turn them into their own “independent” fiefdoms. With the growing irrelevance of the central authorities, international mediation, unmistakably favouring the centripetal forces, was imposed. The “death of Yugoslavia” (as someone famously put it) was assured, and those who directed the process were obviously keen that the decedent’s rigour mortis be as uncontrollably violent as possible.

Yugoslavia scarcely would have died if influential elements within the governing apparatus had not seen advantages for themselves in helping to undermine its vitality and cohesion. Whether or not they precisely envisaged the ultimate consequences of their conduct is an intriguing question, but for the moment it can be set aside. The destroyers from outside the system and their enablers from within the system worked in tandem because they saw their separate agendas converging at certain key points. Ultimately the enablers from within the system set in motion forces that undermined their own authority, and when the smoke had cleared they were unceremoniously swept aside.

Only someone cognitively dissonant or wilfully blind will fail to sense a disturbingly similar pattern playing itself out in post-corona America.

Here is an example that should ring alarm bells. In the already entrenched “autonomous zone” of Seattle a few days ago a murder occurred and another citizen was wounded in the shootout. But here’s the rub: “The shooting happened at about 3 am in the area near downtown known as the Chaz, short for ‘Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone’, police said in a statement on Twitter. Seattle’s police department claimed in a press release on Saturday morning that when officers responded to reports of gunshots inside the protest zone, they ‘were met by a violent crowd that prevented officers safe access to the victims’.”

The police were successfully prevented from performing one of their basic functions, in this case not mob control, but simply investigating a crime scene and assisting victims.

The hooligans then sent a clear message who is in charge: “Police were later informed that the protesters’ own medics transported the two gunshot wound victims to a hospital, the department said.”

City authorities put their tail between their legs and did nothing about it. Inhabitants of the former Yugoslavia would have no difficulty interpreting the portentous significance of this comparatively minor incident and drawing proper conclusions from it.

Should it come as a surprise, then, that police in Atlanta are now inventing pretexts not to come to work and that they are increasingly refusing to respond to emergency 911 calls? Their stated rationale, that they are acting in solidarity with one of their colleagues who is being criminally prosecuted for shooting a black man to death under controversial circumstances, sounds rather indeed. But their underlying concern is serious enough, and it is a symptom of the slow disintegration of the system. Policemen see the writing on the wall and know that standard rules for dealing with lawlessness have been suspended. They do not want to risk being exposed to criminal charges for making a politically incorrect decision in a tense situation. Quite sensibly, they prefer not to be cannon fodder in confrontational games between the various warring factions of the political elite.

The process of controlled demolition has started and it is in its initial stages. Unless firm and decisive steps are taken now to counteract it using methods more civilized and professional, and less inflammatory, than those applied to the Branch Davidians, the emerging trends will at every turn become more difficult to control and reverse. Police forces are by definition the first line of defense of a cohesive and orderly society. Their demoralization and withdrawal of social support for the proper execution of their task augurs ill for the body politic in question.

All that may be music for the ears of Professor Panarin, of course strictly in his capacity as a scholarly predictor of political trends (and here). Panarin, however, has the privilege of watching the unfolding of his increasingly fashionable ideas from a safe distance. The show is less fun to watch from ground zero.

https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/ ... a-deja-vu/


More interesting articles by the author, Stephen Karganovic at Strategic Culture, HERE.


Police forces are by definition the first line of defense of a cohesive and orderly society. Their demoralization and withdrawal of social support for the proper execution of their task augurs ill for the body politic in question.

Dunno if Stephen remembers the murder of John T Wiliams by Seattle cop Ian Birk ten years ago last month but I do. I also remember the extracts from the private Seattle PD newsletter that were posted here by Perlandra who was a ember of the Seattle Social Justice commission at the time iirc.

That was eye opening and maybe the beginning of the withdrawal of social support for the cops in that town by minority groups. If it hadn't started earlier.
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Re: Bet on Dem VP! (Switches to: "Spring 2020 Riots Thread")

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:57 pm

Police forces are by definition the first line of defense of a cohesive and orderly society. Their demoralization and withdrawal of social support for the proper execution of their task augurs ill for the body politic in question.


No, they are not. This statement is full of shit historically. Also in terms of its implicit definition of 'society' and 'defense' (against what enemy?), as well as the dangerously vague words 'cohesive', 'orderly', 'proper', 'their task', etc.

In the Capitol Hill neighbourhood of Seattle two weeks ago, for the first time since the Civil War in the 1860s, something purporting to be a competing government was established on U.S. territory.


Full of shit.

The pretense of warning against 'Yugoslavia' reads more like an apologetic for incipient fascism.

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We meet at the borders of our being, we dream something of each others reality. - Harvey of R.I.

To Justice my maker from on high did incline:
I am by virtue of its might divine,
The highest Wisdom and the first Love.

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