Coronavirus Crisis: Main Thread

[stickdog99]

Maybe alternative views on this topic would have gained more of a hearing if most of the people propagating them didn't also believe in Jewish Space Lasers. There are only so many hours in the day, and when I hear the rest of the conspiracy crap, it pretty much nullifies anything the person said before or says after.

Another thing: If conspiracists are such critical thinkers (as they claim to be) why do they all believe without question in the same conspiracies, as if just trying to keep up with the trends in a sort of oneupsmanship? Example: some moronic fad like flat earthism. The next day, you can't find a "truther" who is willing to express doubts about the earth being pancake-shaped. The only thing that "truthers" disagree with each other on is which of them is a shill for (((them))).

Yeah! Because mandated small business closures, mandated school closures, mandated niqābs, mandated experimental vaccination, mandated curfews, mandated hazardous chemical disinfection, mandated isolation from family and friends (even during the holidays), the revocation of the right to assembly, the complete militarization of the US capitol, mandated prohibitions of basic human contact, mandated quarantines of perfectly healthy individuals, and mandated confinement in COVID wards in nursing homes with no visitation allowed are such anti-fascist policies.

Did you ever just consider the possibility that there is currently no coherent argument for any of these authoritarian mandates and that COVID hysteria and Trump Derangement Syndrome have warped your perspective (and that of most other "good liberals") to the point that you have decided that WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, AND AUTHORITARIANISM IS ANTI-FASCISM?

I mean, just look at your trenchant analysis above. It's basically straight out of the JREF handbook of guilt-by-association generalizations and castigations without a single shred of substance.

How in the hell does cheerleading perpetual martial law make you an anti-fascist? Because being against martial law cursorily aligns some of your views with those of some idiotic Trump supporters and we all need to be totally and reflexively against anything that those fascists support? Is that what now defines anti-fascism for you?

If not, what exactly is your argument?

[JackRiddler]

As a non-binding plea: Let's turn down the heat and discuss the points. All the same things can be said more calmly and, as these things go, that usually makes it more precise and fair on all sides. I await the responses from yathrib, metalgongfu2, BS, DrEvil et al.

[Harvey]

Ashamed to be breaking my self imposed silence so soon, but someone has to counter this bullshit.

Exactly. Also the disingenuousness of claiming to have never heard of Jewish Space Lasers. It reminds me of my idiot racist uncle who posts straight QAnon stuff and then claims to have never heard of QAnon, and then says I'm the real conspiracy theorist because I know so much about conspiracy theories.

Accusing people of anti-Semitism with no basis whatsoever is the last refuge of the scoundrel after patriotism no longer works. Those who do so, in my limited experience, do so precisely because they have no other argument which works to deflect from their own monomaniacal psychopathy.

Let's read this supposedly serious comment again.

...the disingenuousness of claiming to have never heard of Jewish Space Lasers.

Loose translation: To admit to having no idea about the complete shit which I myself am somehow aware of (or made up) but which you aren't, makes you look even guiltier.

Besides identifying you as a monumental prick with little self awareness (you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing in the same sentence in which you accuse them) it also represents the high water mark of MSM reactionary argument against everything it can't legitimately critique, because it has no argument except the status quo, but not content to stop there, you insist Jeff is a fascist and RI is shit because it isn't mainstream enough.

Who needs mind control?

[Belligerent Savant]

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I've nothing further to add beyond the astute commentary by stickdog and Harvey, above.
[curbing my inclination to be far less courteous]

[JackRiddler]

.

Sigh. Let's try it again...

As a non-binding plea: Let's turn down the heat and discuss the points. All the same things can be said more calmly,* and, as these things go, that usually makes it more precise and fair on all sides. I await the responses from yathrib, metalgongfu2, BS, DrEvil et al.

* maybe even with an attempt to allow that in the current time of radical confusions, people still arrive at their views sincerely on what they take to be a rational basis, and absolutes and no-exit declarations can and should be avoided.

.

[Harvey]

I'll leave you to discuss the finer points of smearing an opponent with baseless accusations of anti-Semitism.

[Grizzly]

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1368894398705045508?s=19
Klaus Schwab's World Economic Forum has released another dystopian video promoting an "artificial sun," so it is "easier for people to gather again."


Dr. Gates, environmentalist, (what isn't he an expert in?) ... Really these fucks are just megalomaniacs.
https://archive.is/OMpuL

[Iamwhomiam]

Why not put that in the proper thread? Has nothing at all to do with the topic of this thread.

[dada]

"We must not identify war dictatorship – the dictatorship of the military machine, of the staff, of finance capital – with a fascist dictatorship. For the latter, there is first necessary a feeling of desperation of large masses of the people. When the revolutionary parties betray them, when the vanguard of workers shows it incapacity to lead the people to victory – then the farmers, the small business men, the unemployed, the soldiers, etc., become capable of supporting a fascist movement, but only then.

A military dictatorship is purely a bureaucratic institution, reinforced by the military machine and based upon the disorientation of the people and their submission to it. After some time their feelings can change and they can become rebellious against the dictatorship."

Trotsky. Just posting it here because it connects up at points with this thread's wide-ranging discussion. Really it should go in the "what is fascism, how do you recognize it," thread.

Not that Trotsky agrees with me about everything. He clearly criticizes my analysis of capitalism as too broad.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm#p6

[stickdog99]

As a non-binding plea: Let's turn down the heat and discuss the points. All the same things can be said more calmly and, as these things go, that usually makes it more precise and fair on all sides. I await the responses from yathrib, metalgongfu2, BS, DrEvil et al.

Believe it or not, this is what I would like to do.

Right now, there are 47 patients in the entire San Francisco hospital system who are currently hospitalized who have also tested positive for COVID-19. Exactly one person who also tested positive for COVID-19 has died over the last two weeks. The citywide positivity rate for COVID-19 is currently 1.14%, a number so low that it almost exactly matches the false positivity rate of even the best COVID-19 tests.

Yet the city is still under curfew, schools and places of worship are still closed, and mask and social distancing mandates remain in full effect. Why? And why am I seemingly the only one in San Francisco asking this question, while almost everyone else in San Francisco vilifies Texans for "irresponsibly" lifting martial law?

What is wrong with everyone? How good do these numbers have to get before people stop quaking in fear of a respiratory disease that has killed (at most) just 10 people with no underlying conditions, just 17 people under 50, and just 43 people under 60 in San Francisco over the entire past year? There is no data I can find to suggest that the average age of death of the 436 people who have died over the past year in San Francisco while also testing positive for COVID-19 deviates in the slightest from the normal age of mortality in San Francisco.

So wtf is going on? Just how safe does it have to be before people once again feel comfortable to stop hiding and come out from behind their masks? Or is the fear factor never-ending?

[Grizzly]

Corbett Explains Clear Continuity Between 9/11 and COVID Coup

[Iamwhomiam]

The latest update on covid deaths in San Francisco took place this evening at 9:38pm edt and indicates 438 deaths in SF so far.

California's number of deaths from covid so far is 54,572. That's more than 10% of all US deaths, which tonight is reported to be 527,643.

WHen I long ago wrote about the failure of masks to prevent spread of disease, It was a trick to garner some opposition. Masks will fail 95% of the time in restraining spittle ejected when coughing or sneezing. Otherwise they are very effective in reducing the spread of viruses.

Could you imagine being prepped for major surgery and telling all there to operate and assist to remove their masks? They'd have a good laugh and then tell the anesthesiologist to take you under, all keeping their masks firmly in place for the duration.

The supposed lockdown seems to have evaded me and my area. Oh, sure, our restaurants and businesses closed for a couple of months, that's true, but my freedom has never been curtailed aside from my own self-sought isolation.

But complaining about suffering from the ill effects of lockdown seems to lose its merit when such complaints are written by one on vacation in Maine, and then brag they ignored the mask wearing local mandate in effect there.

Yes, there are negative impacts for some, especially for those without the disposable income necessary to enjoy the luxury of vacationing.

Believe as you will. Had more been compliant in wearing masks early on, we'd have returned to normal long ago, before the election.

[dada]

"Not that Trotsky agrees with me about everything. He clearly criticizes my analysis of capitalism as too broad."

Actually, that isn't accurate. He's criticizing an analysis that dismisses or underestimates fascism by reducing it to a purely functional service of capitalism.

My argument is really the opposite. I'm criticizing analyses of capitalism that reduce it to facism. Like there's pre-fascism, proto-fascism, and fascism. Maybe post-fascism? Capitalism itself is invisible, impervious to critique in this framework.

Funny reading about social fascism, beginning as a critique from the left as sort of demand for ideological purity, a barrier erected by the left between itself and the social democrats. It's the same diluting of the term fascism, though, which has the effect of protecting both capitalism and fascism from exposure and dissection.

[stickdog99]

The latest update on covid deaths in San Francisco took place this evening at 9:38pm edt and indicates 438 deaths in SF so far.

California's number of deaths from covid so far is 54,572. That's more than 10% of all US deaths, which tonight is reported to be 527,643.

WHen I long ago wrote about the failure of masks to prevent spread of disease, It was a trick to garner some opposition. Masks will fail 95% of the time in restraining spittle ejected when coughing or sneezing. Otherwise they are very effective in reducing the spread of viruses.

Could you imagine being prepped for major surgery and telling all there to operate and assist to remove their masks? They'd have a good laugh and then tell the anesthesiologist to take you under, all keeping their masks firmly in place for the duration..

OK, but based on what actual scientific evidence?

[Belligerent Savant]

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The official death tallies are wholly unreliable as a means to track death specifically due to the covid virus (there are pages of content within this thread, and raw data available, that can be analyzed to corroborate this, so I won't repeat it. The info is out there to find).

Masks have not been shown to be effective, certainly not as advertised in media and by govt mouthpieces (pun intended). Again, we've addressed this at length, but I understand some will continue to cite official tallies and data points. 149 pages in and the same refrains are being put forward as talking points. Mission Accomplished, Information Managers.

But even 'official' sources can only keep up the lies for so long. Eventually it becomes clear despite attempts to distort or twist reality.

Here, a recent CDC report shows that mask mandates only lowered COVID-19 cases and deaths by 1.32% during the first 100 days after the mask policy was implemented.

Per their own words:

During March 1–December 31, 2020, state-issued mask mandates applied in 2,313 (73.6%) of the 3,142 U.S. counties. Mask mandates were associated with a 0.5 percentage point decrease (p = 0.02) in daily COVID-19 case growth rates 1–20 days after implementation and decreases of 1.1, 1.5, 1.7, and 1.8 percentage points 21–40, 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after implementation (p<0.01 for all) (Table 1) (Figure). Mask mandates were associated with a 0.7 percentage point decrease (p = 0.03) in daily COVID-19 death growth rates 1–20 days after implementation and decreases of 1.0, 1.4, 1.6, and 1.9 percentage points 21–40, 41–60, 61–80, and 81–100 days, respectively, after implementation (p<0.01 for all). Daily case and death growth rates before implementation of mask mandates were not statistically different from the reference period.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/ ... 10e3-H.pdf

The above is using their 'official' metrics. The reality is likely lower than they advertise in that quote. Margin of errors not included.

Mask mandates have been a farce from the onset.

Also, how does one explain Florida? They stopped mandates and lockdowns some time ago (they were never anywhere near as restrictive, from the onset), and their overall figures (however inflated) look markedly better than those of California, one of the most restricted States.

The following was posted on page 145 of this thread:

Excellent summary of data points conveyed by a few of us here for the past ~5 months+


https://twitter.com/Emily_Burns_V/statu ... 0929129476

And this:

https://twitter.com/dockaurG/status/136 ... 52166?s=20

Kulvinder Kaur MD
@dockaurG
My only plea: please connect with your inner humanity & take 1hr of your time to watch this candid interview of me & my colleagues

It is not the virus that is unprecedented. It is our response that is unprecedented. It is our response that is deadly

And this:

https://twitter.com/MarkChangizi/status ... 70848?s=20

Mark Changizi
@MarkChangizi

PANDEMIC FEAR IS THE SOCIETAL NUCLEAR BOMB

Fear is bad enough. But fear of infection is much MUCH worse. Why?