Russian-Ukrainian War: Live Thread

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Day 5/6 of invasion

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:05 pm

.

found at
https://twitter.com/bazaarofwar/status/ ... 2793583620
[copied at 5 pm EST 1 Mar 2022]

Bazaar of War
@bazaarofwar


It's just to give an idea, this shouldn't be analyzed too closely.

The important things are depth of penetration and the breadth of the front. Here the Russian effort is MORE impressive. Although they didn't get as far in, their penetrations were far more widely contested.

Image



Just discovered Bazaar of War
@bazaarofwar
presented as work on 'Warfare, past and present.'
http://bazaarofwar.com/
[Followed by Leila Mechoui, Anton Jäger, and Adam Tooze, 3 others I'd recommend as informative, caveat emptor, etc.]

.

In the Western coverage (practically all that one can get easily for day-to-day), I detected peak Zelensky(y) cult yesterday, and a downturn on Ukrainian military prospects today.

Map at NYT doesn't differ very much
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/202 ... -maps.html

Ukraine-Invasion_Day5_1-Mar.jpg


Outside of the capital, a convoy of Russian tanks and vehicles, now about 40 miles long, could still be seen in satellite images. A renewed assault on western Kyiv was likely to start again on Tuesday, according to an analysis by the Institute for the Study of War.


Image

.

Here's a photo found at https://twitter.com/defensealt/status/1 ... 22/photo/1, supposedly part of the 40-mile Russian convoy closing in on Kiev behind the lines.

Image

@defensealt, which has had ok info but a lot of Western-style cheerleading, invokes comparison to 1991 Highway of Death - beyond ridiculous. I replied, 'The Iraqis were *fleeing* after defeat along the only open route. Quite a comparison! These forces, on the attack, aren't worrying because they control the air. Why not invoke the Roman column hit by Arminius in 9 AD, which is about as relevant?'

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Scott Ritter

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:42 pm

.

He was blocked by Twitter from posting a link to his article, published at Consortium News, dated 27 Feb.

https://consortiumnews.com/2022/02/27/p ... ar-threat/

consortiumnews.com – Consortium News

Putin’s Nuclear Threat
The disconnect between the Western and Russian narratives in the current conflict could prove fatal to the world, writes Scott Ritter.


Vladimir Putin and Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. (U.N. Photo/Cia Pak)

By Scott Ritter
Special to Consortium News

Vladimir Putin is a madman. He’s lost it. At least that is what the leaders of the West would like you to believe. According to their narrative, Putin — isolated, alone, confused, and angry at the unfolding military disaster Russia was undergoing in Ukraine — lashed out, ostensibly threatening the entire world with nuclear annihilation.

In a meeting with his top generals on Sunday, the beleaguered Russian president announced, “I order the defense minister and the chief of the general staff of the Russian armed forces to put the deterrence forces of the Russian army into a special mode of combat service.”

The reason for this action, Putin noted, centered on the fact that, “Western countries aren’t only taking unfriendly actions against our country in the economic sphere, but top officials from leading NATO members made aggressive statements regarding our country” in relation to the ongoing situation in Ukraine.

The “deterrence forces” Putin spoke of refers to Russia’s nuclear arsenal.

What made the Russian president’s words resonate even more was that last Thursday, when announcing the commencement of Russia’s “special military operation” against Ukraine, Putin declared that “no one should have any doubts that a direct attack on our country will lead to the destruction and horrible consequences for any potential aggressor.” He emphasized that Russia is “one of the most potent nuclear powers and also has a certain edge in a range of state-of-the-art weapons.”

When Putin issued that threat, The Washington Post described it as “empty, a mere baring of fangs.” The Pentagon, involved as it was in its own review of U.S. nuclear posture designed to address threats such as this, seemed non-plussed, with an anonymous official noting that U.S. policy makers “don’t see an increased threat in that regard.”

Secretary of State Antony Blinken and others representatives of NATO countries in a group photo at NATO Headquarters in Brussels, March 2021 . (State Department/Ron Przysucha)

NATO’s Response

For NATO’s part, the Trans-Atlantic military alliance, which sits at the heart of the current crisis, issued a statement in which it noted that:

“Russia’s actions pose a serious threat to Euro-Atlantic security, and they will have geo-strategic consequences. NATO will continue to take all necessary measures to ensure the security and defense of all Allies. We are deploying additional defensive land and air forces to the eastern part of the Alliance, as well as additional maritime assets. We have increased the readiness of our forces to respond to all contingencies.”

Hidden near the bottom of this statement, however, was a passage which, when examined closely, underpinned the reasoning behind Putin’s nuclear muscle-flexing. “[W]e have held consultations under Article 4 of the Washington Treaty,” the statement noted. “We have decided, in line with our defensive planning to protect all Allies, to take additional steps to further strengthen deterrence and defense across the Alliance.”

Under Article 4, members can bring any issue of concern, especially related to the security of a member country, to the table for discussion within the North Atlantic Council. NATO members Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland triggered the Article 4 consultation following the Russian incursion into Ukraine. In a statement issued on Friday, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg expanded on the initial NATO statement, declaring that NATO was committed to protecting and defending all its allies, including Ukraine.

Three things about this statement stood out. First, by invoking Article IV, NATO was positioning itself for potential offensive military action; its previous military interventions against Serbia in 1999, Afghanistan in 2001, Iraq in 2004, and Libya in 2011, were all done under Article IV of the NATO Charter. Seen in this light, the premise that NATO is an exclusively defensive organization, committed to the promise of collective self-defense, is baseless.

Second, while Article V (collective defense) protections only extend to actual NATO members, which Ukraine is not, Article IV allows the umbrella of NATO protection to be extended to those non-NATO members whom the alliance views as an ally, a category Stoltenberg clearly placed Ukraine in.

Finally, Stoltenberg’s anointing of Ukraine as a NATO ally came at the same time he announced the activation and deployment of NATO’s 40,000-strong Response Force, some of which would be deployed to NATO’s eastern flank, abutting Ukraine. The activation of the Response Force is unprecedented in the history of NATO, a fact that underscores the seriousness to which a nation like Russia might attach to the action.

When seen in this light, Putin’s comments last Thursday were measured, sane, and responsible.

Dassault Mirage F1CR jet operated by French Air Force and based at Reims. (Alan Wilson/Wikimedia Commons)

What Happens if NATO Convoys or EU Jets Are Hit?

Since the Article IV consultations began, NATO members have begun to supply Ukraine with lethal military aid, with the promise of more in the days and weeks to come. These shipments can only gain access to Ukraine through a ground route that requires transshipment through NATO members, including Romania and Poland. It goes without saying that any vehicle carrying lethal military equipment into a war zone is a legitimate target under international law; this would apply in full to any NATO-affiliated shipment or delivery done by a NATO member on their own volition.

What happens when Russia begins to attack NATO/EU/US/Allied arms deliveries as they arrive on Ukrainian soil? Will NATO, acting under Article IV, create a buffer zone in Ukraine, using the never-before-mobilized Response Force? One naturally follows the other…

The scenario becomes even more dire if the EU acts on its pledge to provide Ukraine with aircraft and pilots to fight the Russians. How would these be deployed to Ukraine? What happens when Russia begins shooting down these aircraft as soon as they enter Ukrainian airspace? Does NATO now create a no-fly zone over western Ukraine?

What happens if a no-fly zone (which many officials in the West are promoting) is combined with the deployment of the Response Force to create a de facto NATO territory in western Ukraine? What if the Ukrainian government establishes itself in the city of Lvov, operating under the protection of this air and ground umbrella?

Night training for the Victory Day parade on Red Square, May 4, 2021. ( Micha? Siergiejevicz/Wikimedia Commons)

Russia’s Nuclear Doctrine

In June 2020, Russia released a new document, titled “On Basic Principles of State Policy of the Russian Federation on Nuclear Deterrence,” that outlined the threats and circumstances that could lead to Russia’s use of nuclear weapons. While this document declared that Russia “considers nuclear weapons exclusively as a means of deterrence,” it outlined several scenarios in which Russia would resort to the use of nuclear weapons if deterrence failed.

While the Russian nuclear policy document did not call for the preemptive use of nuclear weapons during conventional conflicts, it did declare that “in the event of a military conflict, this Policy provides for the prevention of an escalation of military actions and their termination on conditions that are acceptable for the Russian Federation and/or its allies.”

In short, Russia might threaten to use nuclear weapons to deter “aggression against the Russian Federation with the use of conventional weapons when the very existence of the state is in jeopardy.”

In defining Russia’s national security concerns to both the U.S. and NATO last December, Putin was crystal clear about where he stood when it came to Ukrainian membership in NATO. In a pair of draft treaty documents, Russia demanded that NATO provide written guarantees that it would halt its expansion and assure Russia that neither Ukraine nor Georgia ever be offered membership into the alliance.

In a speech delivered after Russia’s demands were delivered, Putin declared that if the U.S. and its allies continue their “obviously aggressive stance,” Russia would take “appropriate retaliatory military-technical measures,” adding that it has “every right to do so.”

In short, Putin made it clear that, when it came to the issue of Ukrainian membership in NATO, the stationing of U.S. missiles in Poland and Romania and NATO deployments in Eastern Europe, Russia felt that its very existence was being threatened.

A bus burns Thursday on road from Kharkiv to Kiev as Russia enters the war. (Yan Boechat/VOA/Wikimedia Commons)

The Disconnect

The Russian invasion of Ukraine, when seen from the perspective of Russia and its leadership, was the result of a lengthy encroachment by NATO on the legitimate national security interests of the Russian state and people. The West, however, has interpreted the military incursion as little more than the irrational action of an angry, isolated dictator desperately seeking relevance in a world slipping out of his control.

The disconnect between these two narratives could prove fatal to the world. By downplaying the threat Russia perceives, both from an expanding NATO and the provision of lethal military assistance to Ukraine while Russia is engaged in military operations it deems critical to its national security, the U.S. and NATO run the risk of failing to comprehend the deadly seriousness of Putin’s instructions to his military leaders regarding the elevation of the level of readiness on the part of Russia’s strategic nuclear forces.

Far from reflecting the irrational whim of a desperate man, Putin’s orders reflected the logical extension of a concerted Russian national security posture years in the making, where the geopolitical opposition to NATO expansion into Ukraine was married with strategic nuclear posture. Every statement Putin has made over the course of this crisis has been tied to this policy.

While the U.S. and NATO can debate the legitimacy of the Russian concerns, to dismiss the national security strategy of a nation that has been subjected to detailed bureaucratic vetting as nothing more than the temper tantrum of an out of touch autocrat represents a dangerous disregard of reality, the consequences of which could prove to be fatal to the U.S., NATO, and the world.

President Putin has often complained that the West does not listen to him when he speaks of issues Russia deems to be of critical importance to its national security.

The West is listening now. The question is, is it capable of comprehending the seriousness of the situation?

So far, the answer seems to be no.

Scott Ritter is a former U.S. Marine Corps intelligence officer who served in the former Soviet Union implementing arms control treaties, in the Persian Gulf during Operation Desert Storm, and in Iraq overseeing the disarmament of WMD.

The views expressed are solely those of the author and may or may not reflect those of Consortium News.
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Mark Ames feed recommended for updates

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:58 pm

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled

Little time to fish for copying here but notes encirclement of Mariupol, 'Azov stronghold', and entry there of DNR along with RU forces, reportedly taking Shirokino, Azov base. Expects this to be bloody, compared to the Russian preference for how to handle Kiev and Kharkov. On that however...

Matthew Luxmoore
@mjluxmoore

Amazing footage from Melitopol of Ukrainians stopping the onward advance of a Russian convoy and chanting “Occupants!” and “Murderers!” The jittery Russians are firing into the air

https://twitter.com/mjluxmoore/status/1 ... 9178402820


Ames: 'Apparently Putin, ingenious critic of Dubya's Iraq war debacle, forgot how angry Fallujah locals mobbed & protested occupying US soldiers to leave in April 2003. All it took was nervous soldier shooting protesters—and the insurgency starts full swing'.

https://twitter.com/hysperbole/status/1498687020327133185

Amanda Sperber
@hysperbole
“People who are not white are not more innately prone and habituated to violence and suffering. People who are not white are no less civil or incapable of solving conflict.” Statement from
@FPA_Africa
on coverage of #Ukraine, calls for diversified leadership in Western newsrooms.

Image



Also:

    'Our ally against Russia creating a lot of enemies with our Quad ally against China. Clips of Ukrainian border guards abusing young Indians all over Indian social media.'
    'In 2018 - 3 years into Yemen war - there were no calls from Guardian for sanctions on Saudi dictatorship to stop its brutal destruction of Yemen. Instead, the paper took regime money to launder the new dictator’s reputation + present him as progressive. Yemenis are unpeople.'
    'Looks like the ruble recovered a lot of the losses today, falling 31% — still not as bad as the worst days in the 1998 financial collapse, the end result of Washington's catastrophic support for Yeltsin & direct role in mismanaging Russia's economy.'

https://twitter.com/MarkAmesExiled


A
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:13 pm

On the BBC World News webpage, since this shit started, everything has gone GIGANTIC. Headlines, photos, everything. Full tabloid. The form is loathsome, to say nothing of the content.

Meanwhile:

@PeterSweden7
The Czech Republic is threatening to imprison people up to 3 years for the crime of posting support of Russia on social media.

What happened to free speech?

https://twitter.com/PeterSweden7/status ... jJv8wpAAAA
6:31 nachm. · 1. März 2022


Munich Philharmonic sacks conductor Valery Gergiev over failure to denounce Putin

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2022/ ... unce-putin


This is 2022. Failure to denounce is Hate Speech.
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby Elvis » Tue Mar 01, 2022 8:51 pm

Looks like Scott Ritter's piece is getting linked on Twitter -- https://twitter.com/search?q=Putin%E2%8 ... uery&f=top
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby Elvis » Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:00 pm

I'm watching RT. It's like CNN with a Russian tilt, and NO COMMERCIALS! I see little if any fake stuff or bald propaganda, and one RT host (a Brit) was very critical of Putin's moves, pushing back on a pro-Putin guest. RT's on-the-ground reporting exposes a litany of Western media lies, omissions and misrepresentations.

I think RT has try to keep it honest to compete. People won't watch it if it's obvious PR BS.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0I5eglJMRI



The RT site itself is messed up, but the embedded YouTube video remains -- https://www.rt.com/on-air/
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Ritter & RT

Postby JackRiddler » Tue Mar 01, 2022 9:37 pm

.

Ritter's own linking of the article was blocked and placed under warning. Someone else posted it so

I've seen a lot of fucking RT in recent years. It's mixed. They have a lot of incentive to score points by telling truth about the United States not found in American media, and that's fine and dandy. But it's often FOX-level stuff. The coverage on immigration and refugees and culture war crap is usually in that vein. They echo the inflation-n-crime panic stuff. Keizer used to be funny, is now non-stop talking hyperinflation due to free stuff for everybody. They have some good programs - Hedges, Redacted Tonight (if Lee Camp would tone down his annoying style). The news from Moscow differs in interesting ways from that from Washington. The 'commercial' breaks feature the same klutzy propaganda spots repeated dozens of times daily. The visual style is crap and has degenerated. Screens permanently filled with 90s graphics, all moving, all the time.

You want an informative contrast? Can you get CGTN?

.
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Re: Ritter & RT

Postby Elvis » Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:02 pm

JackRiddler » Tue Mar 01, 2022 6:37 pm wrote:.

Ritter's own linking of the article was blocked and placed under warning. Someone else posted it so

I've seen a lot of fucking RT in recent years. It's mixed. They have a lot of incentive to score points by telling truth about the United States not found in American media, and that's fine and dandy. But it's often FOX-level stuff. The coverage on immigration and refugees and culture war crap is usually in that vein. They echo the inflation-n-crime panic stuff. Keizer used to be funny, is now non-stop talking hyperinflation due to free stuff for everybody. They have some good programs - Hedges, Redacted Tonight (if Lee Camp would tone down his annoying style). The news from Moscow differs in interesting ways from that from Washington. The 'commercial' breaks feature the same klutzy propaganda spots repeated dozens of times daily. The visual style is crap and has degenerated. Screens permanently filled with 90s graphics, all moving, all the time.

You want an informative contrast? Can you get CGTN?

.


I agree with your takes, actually. I seldom see TV, so I don't really know the visual styles. Someone gave me a Netflix logon, so I set up a TV in my living room to watch Netflix; I realized I could watch anything on YouTube (or online) on the TV with the HDMI cable. So I started watching RT for hours, and found the "war coverage" superior to US media clips I'd seen on YouTube, and of course US 'print' media.

It looks like I can watch CGTN online, so will try it—thanks!

https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-03-01/L ... index.html
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby Mask » Tue Mar 01, 2022 10:41 pm

https://twitter.com/googleeurope/status/1498572529409179648
@googleeurope

Due to the ongoing war in Ukraine, we’re blocking YouTube channels connected to RT and Sputnik across Europe, effective immediately. It’ll take time for our systems to fully ramp up. Our teams continue to monitor the situation around the clock to take swift action.


I can't watch the video Elvis just linked to.
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Mar 02, 2022 2:54 am

Can't verify this, but supposedly the regions of Western Ukraine are now forbidding men 18-60 from 'settlement'.
https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/149 ... 02/photo/1

Seems to be edging closer and closer to outright conscription. Can't leave Ukraine > Can't leave Eastern Ukraine > . . .

Be interesting to see if it's mass conscription or done by region. Wouldn't surprise me if Zelensky spared the populations of Western Ukraine from the meat grinder. Concentrate all devastation amongst the portion of the population you'll no longer have to govern.
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby RocketMan » Wed Mar 02, 2022 3:23 am

Mask » Wed Mar 02, 2022 5:41 am wrote:
https://twitter.com/googleeurope/status/1498572529409179648
@googleeurope

Due to the ongoing war in Ukraine, we’re blocking YouTube channels connected to RT and Sputnik across Europe, effective immediately. It’ll take time for our systems to fully ramp up. Our teams continue to monitor the situation around the clock to take swift action.


I can't watch the video Elvis just linked to.
Video unavailable
This video is not available in your country


YouTube has blocked RT in Finland at least. We are coming finally in line with the imperial centre. A scary spectacle, long time in the coming. The ruling class has been unleashed, and historically, membership in Nato is now supported by the majority in the latest polling. A first time EVER. In history. They have free rein.
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby drstrangelove » Wed Mar 02, 2022 8:32 am

drstrangelove » Tue Mar 01, 2022 7:57 am wrote:Ukrainian journalist implores Boris Johnson to start World War 3:
https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/14 ... 9654294530

Journalist in question turns out to be a WEF plant:
https://www.weforum.org/people/daria-kaleniuk

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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby MacCruiskeen » Wed Mar 02, 2022 11:33 am

A planned lecture-course on Dostoyevsky is "postponed" by the University of Milan-Bicocca "to avoid any kind of controversy at this moment of high tension":

https://twitter.com/QuilinBern/status/1 ... 2474603521
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby Belligerent Savant » Wed Mar 02, 2022 6:05 pm

.

Nuance and context that will never be heard in the West/U.S. You can disagree with what Putin says here, but notice the variance between his explanation and the simplistic/facile commentary from U.S. political figureheads, which in part explains the reflexive hate.
(Conditioning and Propaganda take care of the rest)

The majority are getting played, perpetually.

Unfortunately can't embed the video here, but worth a listen.

Ben
@1BJDJ

I agree with everything he says here. Part 1...

Image

https://twitter.com/1BJDJ/status/149908 ... LxtlPzbkPA
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Re: Russian-Ukranian War: Live Thread

Postby Elvis » Wed Mar 02, 2022 9:39 pm

Mask wrote:I can't watch the video Elvis just linked to.
Video unavailable
This video is not available in your country


That sucks! :evil: I'm kinda relying on RT for on-the-ground coverage. Also (did I mention?) they have a great documentary series on how the Ukraine economy got so wacked after 2014; the central bankers, regulators, and other Ukrainian government officials recount events & experiences. It was great because it overlapped with reading I'd just done on exactly that. (Not to get off-topic, but Western finance made an absolute wreck of the Ukraine economy, not least owing to the US citizen they installed as Finance Minister.
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