Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Moderators: Elvis, DrVolin, Jeff

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Belligerent Savant » Mon Aug 12, 2024 9:31 pm

.
Excerpt from a book I happened across at a local book store…

"Your air is composed of various electromagnetic pockets. Some of these pockets are large and some are small, some are dense and some are thin, some are positively charged, while others are negatively charged.

"The earth's land surface also carries and transmits electromagnetic energy, and as with the pockets of air, some land areas are positively charged while others are negatively charged.
"The wind that you see moving the trees, or feel blowing across your skin, is mainly the result of the interplay of these positively- and negatively-charged areas in the air and on the land. Simply stated, some pockets of air and land are attracted to one another, while others are repulsed, and this attraction or repulsion is one of the driving forces behind what you experience as a spring breeze or a powerful hurricane.
"Trees and vegetation are other critical elements in moderating and controlling electromagnetic fields, and therefore the wind. Trees are themselves producers of magnetic fields, and their fields interact with the magnetically charged pockets of air and land in two main ways.

"One is that they keep air moving through sheer intelligence.

Trees are intelligent beings capable of shifting the electromagnetic signature of the E-M fields they produce. Thus they are capable of attracting air pockets containing moisture when they are dry and want something to drink.
"The other is that through their magnetic fields they can hold air in a given area, even pull back at and redirect air moving across them, thus helping to reduce erratic and viciously high winds that would otherwise race across the land at 100 miles per hour, even 150 miles per hour.

"The absence of trees and vegetation is why winds at the arctic ends of the earth are as constant and dangerous as they are. It is why hurricanes over bare water easily reach 100 mph or more. And the clearing of your trees in huge numbers over the past 250 years will begin to show its effects in extremes of wind and changing temperature patterns since these are very dependent on the vegetation in any local region.
"As trees and a certain density level of vegetation are lost, their work as physical obstructions and deflectors of wind are also lost. In addition, not only does the electromagnetic signature of the earth's surface change as a result of a tree's presence or absence, the interaction between the earth, the remaining vegetation, and the air changes.

"Of course, the presence or absence of sun and shade, the raising the lowering of temperatures, the number and type of particles in air, and the amount of moisture in both air and soil all play a part in air movement as well, but more basic to these is the interplay of electromagnetic fields.
"The wind performs a number of important services and you will see problems in many areas as trees are cut and wind patterns change.

Among the tasks of wind are the balancing of the ozone layer; the mixing of various particles to achieve an even, breathable air; pollination of trees and plants; the bringer of cool breezes in summer and warming winds in winter; and an important moderating effect during a freeze or a heat wave.

"Wind is the force that trims dead branches from trees, and the carrier of many ionic particles needed by the soil. The wind helps in small ways to generate many small electrical and electromagnetic currents in the soil itself, and these currents provide some of the energy used by plants to take up nutrients and minerals from the soil.
"Without wind moving over your earth, soil would end up either disabled or statically neutral. If soil becomes static, plants do not grow and people do not thrive.

"As we have already mentioned a moment ago, the wind is also the holder and carrier of rain. For example, when the vegetation in an area begins to disappear and dry out, its electromagnetic signature changes.
This change sets up a polarity in which the electromagnetic signature of no rain among the trees and vegetation begins to attract the electromagnetic signature of air holding lots of rain. In effect, the trees and vegetation in an area are the beings that call for rain. Without a cover of trees, there is a great weakening in the strength of the electromagnetic signature, thus a weakened call for rain. This is the beginning, or extending of a desert area.
"When a region stops calling for rain, the result is that extra rain is dumped in other areas. Flash floods as well as unusual, long-term, or repetitive flooding is the result, with heavy amounts of rain that simply cannot be absorbed.

"In addition, if vegetation is cut around the belly of earth, more rain and snow can be pushed into the upper and more northerly regions where a heavy and uneven build-up of snow and ice at the polar caps can help set the stage for a shifting of the entire planet. If the build-up of ice becomes heavy enough, and if the magnetic pole wanders too far from its accustomed orientation or in an unfortunate direction, or if human activities and experimentation with electromagnetic war technology cause uneven pulsations in the electromagnetic framework that holds the earth in place, the combination of excess weight and magnetic bobbling can cause the earth to roll or shift a bit.

"Of course, this would create much havoc and could even result in the earth settling in an entirely new position. A new position would create new. Polar Regions in the places that end up occupying the traditional pole areas at the top and bottom of the planet. It would also cause the melting of a lot of ice that has been displaced. There would also be dramatic alterations in the relationship between land and water, changes in the delicate balances that keep volcanic action at a reasonable level, shifts in the climate of every region, and disruption of life at every level, plant, animal, and human.

"We do not want you to feel fear, but from the universal point of view, your entire way of life and its estrangement from the natural world is somewhere between artificial and senseless. You have organized life with an eye on the short term, and set yourselves up for a maximum of pain, difficulty, and disruption over the long term. The way your civilizations are arranged at present, if anything were to change, you could all be lost, and this is something we would like you to avoid."

Pages 74 - 77 of Robes, a Book of Coming Changes, by Penny Kelly
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5531
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Mon Aug 12, 2024 10:25 pm

Are you sure that's not a parody? Or a bad science fiction novel?
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:11 am

I'm not familiar with the author and do not endorse the book. happened to flip through those pages and decided to 'photoscan' the pages.

That said, anyone that subscribes fully to 'net zero' (et al.) qualifies for the same retort as yours above.

Most of what passes for current "Science" qualifies for full-on fiction. Unfortunately this type of fiction is far from benign, causing collective harms far beyond the fevered (or lucid) dreams of an author 's work found in the Fiction aisle of a library (or wherever the above-cited book resided).

If only 'netzero', 'carbon credits', 'climate alarm' and all the other related propaganda can be rightly dismissed en masse as brazen forms of non-science nonsense, we'd all be far better off. Same goes for many pharma products as well, particularly their "life saving vaccines". etc.

---

None of the above is to suggest we aren't living during ongoing shifts to climate/weather patterns. It's to say the reasons any such fluctuations are occurring have nothing to do with the reasons promoted by all the Big Players out there (Gates, WEF, BlackRock, various Democrat/Republican Party shills, compromised actors, heavily funded [compromised] researchers/scientists, et al).

It's becoming increasingly apparent that CO2 narratives have been a red herring for quite some time. Those narratives won't continue to be sustainable for much longer, but as always, they'll re-direct and will continue to have a following (though a growing count are tuning out).*

*As is well-known among those that believe they are tuned in, much of the 'anti climate alarm' sentiment has been coded as 'far right', so the natural reflexive response among those that abhor the 'far right' is to dismiss any arguments/points against 'climate alarm' accordingly (or otherwise label it 'Big Oil Propaganda'). Naturally, some of the narratives out there on this topic may well include 'Big Oil Propaganda', and those that self identify as 'Right' or 'Far Right' may subscribe to faulty criteria (all part of the process of poisoning wells, limited hangouts, misdirections, etc).
None of this changes the fact that NetZero/'carbon credits' (and related branding/marketing) are all egregious scams.

No single position is immune to tainting. But some positions are more heavily funded/promoted than others, demonstrably.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5531
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Elihu » Tue Aug 13, 2024 12:08 pm

thank you B, for that excerpt, it resonates with me big time. as if we have any real clue about how life works in general.
Cross post:
NASA's $450 million lunar explorer, the Volatiles Investigating Polar Exploration Rover (VIPER), will not be going to the Moon. Something else will be taking its place, though — and given the costs involved, the decision is bound to raise a few eyebrows, if not serious questions


and even if we did, who in their right mind could possibly think the ham-fisted failure machine we call the "government" could do anything about it?
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Tue Aug 13, 2024 3:13 pm

We do have a clue how wind works, and it's not electromagnetism.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Wed Aug 14, 2024 3:12 pm

@BelSav wrote:

... have nothing to do with the reasons promoted by all the Big Players out there (Gates, WEF, BlackRock, various Democrat/Republican Party shills, compromised actors, heavily funded [compromised] researchers/scientists, et al).


Are you really saying that all the climate scientists, who have been warning about this for half a century or more, are lying? That all the data collected, in every country on the planet, is compromised, and not just compromised, but compromised in the same way? Or are you saying that they're all just incompetent and wrong, and that you know better because someone on Twitter told you so?

Counterpoint: the Legion of Supervillains are not dumb. They have access to all the best data and minds in every field you can imagine. They know it's real and are positioning themselves accordingly. Not because they care, but because it's the profitable thing to do. They've spent decades fighting against it because the oil money was too good, but now the writing is on the wall, and above all else they care about money and power, and they aim to maintain both.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Elihu » Thu Aug 15, 2024 10:33 am

We do have a clue how wind works, and it's not electromagnetism.
do we? do we really?
Are you really saying that all the climate scientists, who have been warning about this for half a century or more, are lying? That all the data collected, in every country on the planet, is compromised, and not just compromised, but compromised in the same way?
their functional understanding is incomplete their premises are flawed their objectivity is badly compromised their conclusions are wrong and their prescriptions are tantamount to disaster (if you are on the wrong end of the money).
the Legion of Supervillains are not dumb. They have access to all the best data and minds in every field you can imagine.
so you're going to engage with super villains on the playing field they created and avoid their exploitations through your acuity against their will? not ringing sensible to me.
Not because they care, but because it's the profitable thing to do. They've spent decades fighting against it because the oil money was too good, but now the writing is on the wall,
now, imo, your premises about the nature of the game are mistaken
and above all else they care about money and power, and they aim to maintain both.
well duh, what is this called? a tautology? emotional deductions are baggage. they're not struggling to maintain that! they have it in complete control already! they're perpetrating these things as steps in a process of building a gigantic project they have in mind, the details of which are also beside the point. can't get a little bit pregnant. wake up man!
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Thu Aug 15, 2024 5:07 pm

Come on, everyone knows how wind works.

these things as steps in a process of building a gigantic project they have in mind, the details of which are also beside the point.


There's always some grand conspiracy at work isn't there? Just a shame it's so damn hard to pin down the details. It could be anything! And that's the point. Keep us plebes busy chasing our tails while they laugh and rob us blind.

I just don't buy the "gigantic project" narrative. Too many cooks and conflicting interests. It's boring old greed and selfishness and human nature all the way down.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Elihu » Thu Aug 15, 2024 9:47 pm

There's always some grand conspiracy at work isn't there?
know what gives it away? several things: the unanimity among those on the payroll, the continuously being wrong, continuously doubling down on being wrong, and the epic money and power to be extorted.
I just don't buy the "gigantic project" narrative.
i'll have to grant you that one. i got emotional. no need to embellish the obvious case.
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Aug 27, 2024 2:03 pm

These are the main Conclusions from our new climate study

- Satellite data reveal NO anthropogenic signal in recent warming.

- The so-called "greenhouse gases" do NOT trap heat in the atmosphere.

- The Earth Energy Imbalance does NOT drive climate.

Image



https://www.mdpi.com/2673-7418/4/3/17
Roles of Earth’s Albedo Variations and Top-of-the-Atmosphere Energy Imbalance in Recent Warming: New Insights from Satellite and Surface Observations

by Ned Nikolov 1,*ORCID and Karl F. Zeller 2
1
Cooperative Institute for Research in the Atmosphere, Colorado State University, Fort Collins, CO 80521, USA
2
USDA Forest Service, Fort Collins, CO 80526, USA (Retired Research Meteorologist)
*
Author to whom correspondence should be addressed.
Geomatics 2024, 4(3), 311-341; https://doi.org/10.3390/geomatics4030017
Submission received: 2 July 2024 / Revised: 6 August 2024 / Accepted: 17 August 2024 / Published: 20 August 2024
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5531
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Tue Aug 27, 2024 2:44 pm

^^For the sake of argument, let's say the above is correct (some quick searching tells me it's probably not, but let's ignore that for now) and that the predatory pay-to-publish journal did their job for once and did proper peer review, that's actually really bad news, because if they are correct there's absolutely nothing we can do about global warming. It will happen no matter what we do, so all we can do is try to adapt and hope it stops before it wipes us out. All they've done is replace a really bad problem we can fix with a really bad problem we can't fix. Yay.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Elihu » Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:19 pm

because if they are correct there's absolutely nothing we can do about global warming.
correct
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Belligerent Savant » Tue Aug 27, 2024 3:30 pm

.
Right.
Everyday humans -- general populations -- not only have no tangible impact on weather fluctuations over time, but humans also have no ability to alter such fluctuations, certainly not at scale, and not with the current scams du jour ('carbon credits', 'net zero', ESG, various proposed austerity measures, 'alternative energy' tech that continue to rely heavily on carbon-based fuels, not to mention harmful mining, etc), which at this point are thinly-veiled vehicles (despite ostensible claims) to extract more power, control and wealth transfers from the majority to the very few.

But I repeat myself.

Also: the above study is only one of many out there questioning/scrutinizing the notion of anthropogenic factors as primary drivers of current climate fluctuations. This scrutiny is not nearly as isolated or limited as you (and others) suggest.

The earth has experienced many cyclical climate fluctuations -- some extreme -- throughout its existence, well before humans ever joined the fray (which, relatively-speaking, is barely a blink of an eye in duration compared to the entirety of the Earth's estimated age).

For a forum that purports to question or scrutinize dominant narratives -- and at a time when dominant & even alternative narratives are beginning to falter, if not outright collapse, under the weight of their demonstrably shaky foundations -- it remains interesting, to me at least, the extent which a subset of long-time forum members here continue to hold firmly (nay, clench tightly) to status quo notions.

Of course, you have every right to continue to stand firm and rebuke any counters. Good luck with it.
User avatar
Belligerent Savant
 
Posts: 5531
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:58 pm
Location: North Atlantic.
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby DrEvil » Tue Aug 27, 2024 5:11 pm

Belligerent Savant » Tue Aug 27, 2024 9:30 pm wrote:.
Right.
Everyday humans -- general populations -- not only have no tangible impact on weather fluctuations over time, but humans also have no ability to alter such fluctuations, certainly not at scale, and not with the current scams du jour ('carbon credits', 'net zero', ESG, various proposed austerity measures, 'alternative energy' tech that continue to rely heavily on carbon-based fuels, not to mention harmful mining, etc), which at this point are thinly-veiled vehicles (despite ostensible claims) to extract more power, control and wealth transfers from the majority to the very few.

But I repeat myself.


Why yes, you do. But, we do have the ability to change the climate. We did so only recently when we reduced emissions from international shipping, and that was only a small change (relatively speaking) with a measurable impact. Temps went up because we reduced emissions of particulates that block sunlight. Same thing that caused the "pause" in warming between WW2 and the seventies.

Also, "weather fluctuations over time" is called climate change. "Weather fluctuations" is a denier term I've seen cropping up more and more often lately. Can't imagine why they would want to change their language to make things sound like it's just the weather, nothing to see here. Surely not because they want people to confuse climate and weather?

Also: the above study is only one of many out there questioning/scrutinizing the notion of anthropogenic factors as primary drivers of current climate fluctuations. This scrutiny is not nearly as isolated or limited as you (and others) suggest.


There's plenty of "scrutiny", mostly from hacks, contrarians and paid skeptics. The vast majority of serious researchers on the topic agree it's man-made. It's telling that the only contrarian views you manage to come up with usually come from either people who aren't climate researchers and publish in dodgy "journals", people who work for or have some ties to the oil industry, or random idiots off Twitter. To my knowledge there has been one attempt by serious scientists to disprove man-made climate change (funded by the Koch brothers), and since they were actual serious scientists they went where the science led them, and they changed their minds when it became obvious they were wrong and that climate change was man-made after all.

The earth has experienced many cyclical climate fluctuations -- some extreme -- throughout its existence, well before humans ever joined the fray (which, relatively-speaking, is barely a blink of an eye in duration compared to the entirety of the Earth's estimated age).


Yeah, and we wouldn't have survived most of them. Not to mention that they usually take millennia or more, not decades (yes I know, Greenland ice cores. Shocking that a massive island covered in melting ice could have abrupt changes happening at the end of an ice age. Can't imagine why).

For a forum that purports to question or scrutinize dominant narratives -- and at a time when dominant & even alternative narratives are beginning to falter, if not outright collapse, under the weight of their demonstrably shaky foundations -- it remains interesting, to me at least, the extent which a subset of long-time forum members here continue to hold firmly (nay, clench tightly) to status quo notions.

Of course, you have every right to continue to stand firm and rebuke any counters. Good luck with it.


It's possible to question the dominant narrative and arrive at the conclusion that they're right. Questioning something shouldn't automatically mean you have to change your views, as if it's some kind of badge of honor to disbelieve anything people tell you (it's not). You look at the available evidence and arrive at your position based on that, and the available evidence in this case is overwhelming, including, and I'm getting really tired of saying this, the fact I can see it happening with my own eyes. The climate today is literally different from the climate when I was a kid, and there's nothing else that can explain it as well as it currently does other than man-made emissions.
"I only read American. I want my fantasy pure." - Dave
User avatar
DrEvil
 
Posts: 4104
Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:37 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

Re: Abandoning rational discussion on climate change

Postby Elihu » Tue Aug 27, 2024 8:45 pm

Why yes, you do. But, we do have the ability to change the climate
uh no. no we don't
But take heart, because I have overcome the world.” John 16:33
Elihu
 
Posts: 1363
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 11:44 pm
Blog: View Blog (0)

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 38 guests