Testimonies at Moussaoui trial

by **Qutb** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:32 am

Though this might be of interest. At Moussaoui Trial, Recalling Lives Stolen by 9/11 Families Testify; Tapes Of Victims are Played By Jerry Markon and Timothy Dwyer Washington Post Staff Writers Tuesday, April 11, 2006; Page A03 C. Lee Hanson was on the phone with his son Peter at the moment Peter's plane hit the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. "Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God," Peter said softly as his dad turned and saw the crash on television. Hanson's granddaughter and daughter-in-law also were onboard the jet. Harry Waizer was in an elevator high in one of the twin towers when a fireball struck him in the face. "There was an explosion," Waizer, his face and neck covered with red scars, testified in federal court. "The elevator started to shake, then it started to plummet, then it burst into flames." (...) In a trial with many twists, the latest came late yesterday when Moussaoui's attorneys, trying to discredit their client, issued a subpoena for "shoe bomber" Richard Reid. Moussaoui had testified several weeks ago that he had been planning to fly an airplane into the White House on Sept. 11 and that Reid was to be part of his hijacking team. Defense attorneys have told the jury that Moussaoui was lying. It was unclear whether prosecutors would try to challenge the subpoena and whether Reid, who is serving a life term for a separate attack in which he tried to blow up a transatlantic flight with a bomb hidden in his shoe, would take the stand. The emotions of the day were matched by its historical importance. Prosecutors played for the jury tapes of two desperate 911 calls made by victims inside the trade center the morning of Sept. 11. It was the first time complete 911 tapes were played in public. New York authorities released partial recordings of 911 calls this month, but they were edited to include only remarks from emergency operators. In one of the tapes, the frantic voice of Melissa Doi, trapped on the 83rd floor of the trade center, can be heard. "The floor is completely engulfed, and we can't breathe," Doi said on the tape as a picture of her, smiling, flashed on TV monitors in the courtroom. "It's very, very hot," she kept repeating. The call ends with Doi saying: "I'm going to die. I'm going to die, aren't I?" The trial is expected to make history again today or tomorrow. Prosecutors will play the cockpit voice recording of passengers struggling to take control of United Airlines Flight 93, one of the four planes hijacked Sept. 11, before it crashed in a field in Pennsylvania. It has never been played publicly. U.S. District Judge Leonie M. Brinkema said yesterday that only a written transcript of the tape will be made public after it is played in court because three Sept. 11 family members objected to its release. The day ended with prosecutors playing a second 911 call, synchronizing it with a video of the burning towers. Kevin Cosgrove, trapped high in the trade center with two other men, told an operator who tried to assure him that firefighters were on the way: "It doesn't feel like it. Tell God to blow the wind toward the west. . . . We're very young. We're not ready to die." Cosgrove said he needed oxygen and begged firefighters to hurry. "Oh God. Oh," he shrieked as the building collapsed. <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/10/AR2006041000554_2.html?referrer=email&referrer=email" target="top">link</a>

by **robertdreed** » Tue Apr 11, 2006 10:29 pm

Prosecutors will play the cockpit voice recording of passengers struggling to take control of United Airlines Flight 93, one of the four planes hijacked Sept. 11, before it crashed in a field in Pennsylvania. It has never been played publicly. But I seriously doubt that they'll play the recording all the way through to the end. My personal guess is that Flight 93 was shot down. Why? That's up for grabs. Another thing about that- if it was shot down, a relatively large group of people are in on the cover-up. But I consider it entirely possible, if not likely, that most of the people keeping that secret have been being fed a reason to cover it up that isn't the actual reason for the shoot-down being ordered. I think that eventually, the truth of a shoot-down will come out in public. But the explanation of the motive that accompanies it could quite conceivably be a fraud, proffered as a "limited hang-out." That's about the limit of how much I ever speculate on such serious matters. I hope that I've qualified my remarks appropriately, and to a sufficient extent. I'll gladly be proved wrong. But as of now, I'm leaning in the direction that Flight 93 was more likely than not shot down by US fighter jets. As in, the odds are better than 50/50... Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 4/11/06 8:33 pm

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:57 am

Funny how there is a Flight 93 movie being marketed right now with news stories about previews being yanked in NYC to heighten the drama of its release. Gee, I wonder why 'King Kong' is being re-released now? Ah, famous monster and famous tall NYC building. Hint hint. Langley and Hollywood really know how to play to their audience. Can't tell'em apart because they aren't apart. Just ask Jim Morrison.

by **Hugh Manatee Wins** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:12 am

Re: Flight 93. This looks odd to me. And a suspicious death, too. Possible the shoot down wing and a quieted voice? <a href="http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20011209&Category=NEWS28&ArtNo=112090036&Ref=AR">www.toledoblade.com/apps/...036&Ref=AR</a> <blockquote>Quote:<hr>Federal military officials recently confirmed that the 180th Fighter Wing - an Ohio Air National Guard unit based at Toledo Express Airport - was the first unit outside the East Coast to answer the Air Force's plea for immediate help. And had the last hijacked plane continued west - or had any other hijacked plane headed across the heartland - the Toledo fighter wing was the only unit immediately available to carry out the ultimate act: Shoot it down. "They had the fuel. They had guns. That's what was needed," said retired Lt. Col. Alan Scott, who has been analyzing the air responses for the Air Force. Three months after the worst terrorist attack in America's history, new details are emerging about the frenzied minutes from the time the first plane hit the World Trade Center to the time the nation had grounded every civilian plane in the sky. The man responsible for coordinating the air defense strategy over the hard-hit area - Lt. Col. Robert Marr - confirmed to The Blade last week that the Toledo unit played a critical role as the nation's military geared up for any more attacks. "It just had a phenomenal response on Sept. 11," Colonel Marr said from his command post in Rome, N.Y. .... Toledo Air Guard officials declined to talk about the events that morning, even in general terms permitted by the military. Lt. Col. Carole Allen - the base spokeswoman - said personnel were still grieving over the unexpected death of their 44-year-old commander of operations, Pete Raffa, who died seven days ago of a heart attack. But, in explaining their mission, Colonel Marr said the Toledo jets "never had a track close enough that they were directed to engage." "[But] if a valid direction had come from the appropriate level to engage a target, or shoot down a target at some time, they could have done that," he said.<hr></blockquote> Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=hughmanateewins>Hugh Manatee Wins</A> at: 4/12/06 12:15 am

by **nomo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:10 pm

"Alternating between Arabic and English?" Odd.  <a href="http://articles.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20060410023609990003&ncid=NWS00010000000001">articles.news.aol.com/new...0000000001</a> Moussaoui Jurors Hear Flight 93 Tape By MATTHEW BARAKAT, AP ALEXANDRIA, Va. (April 12) - In the final minutes of doomed United Air Lines Flight 93, on Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers try to shake off passengers trying to take control of the plane as it flies over Pennsylvania. Amid groans and sounds of a struggle, a voice says, "I am injured." A hijacker asks, "Shall we finish it off?" Moments later, the plane hurtles out of control to the ground, according to a cockpit voice recording played for a jury on Wednesday by federal prosecutors seeking the execution of Zacarias Moussaoui. The prosecutors figuratively placed the jury aboard the flight for its last heart-wrenching moments. The government rested its case just before 11:30 a.m. EDT after the judge rejected prosecutors' request to display a running presentation of the names and photos of all of the nearly 3,000 victims of Sept. 11. Prosecutors were instead allowed to show one large poster with the pictures of all but 92 of the victims. There were three victim-impact witnesses who gave testimony following the broadcast of the Flight 93 tape in the courtroom. The judge sent the jury home for the day and the defense will begin its case on Thursday. Just after that, Moussaoui shouted, "God curse you all!" During the government's playing of the recording, a voice is heard from the cockpit, possibly that of a flight crew member, saying, "Please don't hurt me. Oh God!" A few seconds later, somebody says, three times, "I don't want to die." But then, amid sounds of a struggle, a hijacker asks, "There is something, a fight?" The response is, "Yeah." The last sound heard as the plane nears the ground: "Allah is the greatest." Then silence. The flight, one of four hijacked on Sept. 11, 2001, crashed in a Pennsylvania field as passengers tried to retake it. The cockpit voice recording had not been played publicly before. It was played to culminate the prosecution's case before the jury that will weigh whether to recommend the death sentence for Moussaoui, an admitted terrorist conspirator. The recording began at 9:31 a.m. with the hijackers' voice clearly stating "ladies and gentlemen, this is the captain ... we have a bomb on board, so sit." For the next few minutes, passengers are repeatedly told, in English, "Don't move," "Shut up" "Sit," and "down down down." The hijackers alternated between Arabic and English. As the tape proceeded, it was clear that passengers were gaining the upper hand. A voice of a hijacker, presumably inside the cockpit, says, "They want to get in." The voice continues, "Hold from within." At 10 a.m., there is a voice that says, "I am injured." Sounds of a struggle can be heard. At that point, the plane appears to go out of control. There are sounds of the hijackers trying to shake off the passengers. The plane pitches back and forth. As the jury heard the recording, prosecutors played a video presentation that simultaneously showed the flight path, speed and heading in a mockup similar to a flight simulator. At 10:02 a.m., a hijacker says, "Give it to me. Give it to me." At 10:03 a.m. the plane dives amid crashing sounds and the tape stops. The plane had been headed for the U.S. Capitol, according to Sept. 11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed. Moussaoui is the only person charged in this country in connection with the Sept. 11 attacks. The jury deciding his fate has already declared him eligible for the death penalty by determining that his actions caused at least one death on 9/11. Even though he was in jail in Minnesota at the time of the attacks, the jury ruled that lies told by Moussaoui to federal agents a month before the attacks kept them from identifying and stopping some of the hijackers. Now they must decide whether Moussaoui deserves execution or life in prison. Defense lawyers say the jury should spare Moussaoui's life because of his limited role in the attacks, evidence that he is mentally ill and because his execution would only play into his dream of martyrdom. After several days of testimony related to the attacks on the World Trade Center in New York, the focus had shifted Tuesday to the Pentagon, where the jury saw some of the most gruesome evidence in the trial. Several photos showed badly burned bodies, facial features still discernible. Defense lawyers objected unsuccessfully to their display. Also on Tuesday, the judge issued an order requiring an unidentified individual to be produced for testimony. The order apparently applied to would-be shoe bomber Richard Reid - defense lawyers issued a subpoena last week seeking his testimony. Prosecutors had opposed the subpoena. Moussaoui testified previously that he and Reid were going to hijack a fifth plane on Sept. 11 and fly it into the White House. The defense lawyers, who have tried to discredit their client's credibility, have said Moussaoui is exaggerating his role in Sept. 11 to inflate his role in history.

by **Qutb** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 2:58 pm

""Alternating between Arabic and English?" Odd." Why? It's a high stress situation. Besides, they are probably used to speaking Arabic among each other while they have to speak English when they address the passengers. Do those who don't think the planes were hijacked have a theory about this, by the way? Fake tape? Jury and journalists all in on it?

by **mrthegoat** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:17 pm

I think the tapes are faked. If they were real, then why weren't they released earlier? Maybe I'm being over-suspicious, but I guess I get that way when the Powerful try to prevent me from learning something they apparently don't want me to know.

by **Moddey Screbbagh** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:31 pm

NYT has the transcript available (pdf) <a href="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/flight93_document.pdf">graphics8.nytimes.com/pac...cument.pdf</a> initial impressions: surprising so little is transcribed...one would imagine chaos with a lot more dialogue. maybe most of it is unintelligible at one point it appears the guys can't figure out how to fly...something involving a green knob, and one says to try and get the pilot back in the cockpit, presumably to help them figure it out...this calls into question how the other guys on the other planes were able to pull it off

by **nomo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:53 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I think the tapes are faked. If they were real, then why weren't they released earlier? Maybe I'm being over-suspicious, but I guess I get that way when the Powerful try to prevent me from learning something they apparently don't want me to know.<hr></blockquote> So, the sooner something is released, the more likely you are to believe it's real? I think you need to work on your criteria a bit. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smokin.gif ALT=":smokin">

by **pugzleyca3** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:14 pm

Nomo, maybe you should work on your own criteria a bit. Common sense says the longer something is withheld, the more opportunity there is for it to be tampered with. Unless you buy into every single thing the government says about 9/11 and have no suspicions at all about the official story. Is that your position? I haven't had time to read through all your posts to see just where you do stand. But your tone is nothing short of carping. Others have a right to differ with you in their opinion, whether you like it or not. Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=pugzleyca3>pugzleyca3</A> at: 4/12/06 3:14 pm

by **nomo** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:36 pm

Common sense says the longer something is withheld, the more opportunity there is for it to be tampered with. Common sense says a lot of things. Like, the list of the 19 hijackers that wasn't withheld at all, was not tampered with?? Unless you buy into every single thing the government says about 9/11 and have no suspicions at all about the official story.  Does it always have to be that black and white? What's the point? I have plenty of suspicions, but I'm not gonna base them on the single fact of when exactly certain information is being made public. Could the tapes have been tampered with? You bet. But you can't say one way or the other only because this is the first you heard of them. By the way, weren't these tapes played before a group of familiy members, oh, I don't know, about a year ago? Others have a right to differ with you in their opinion, whether you like it or not. Absolutely. I wasn't trying to trample on people's rights, but merely trying to encourage a more "rigorous" approach to certain "intuitions."

by **greencrow0** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:48 pm

I believe the recordings were faked sometime before the event, and then used as part of the 9/11 'Wargames Drill' which was taking place at the very same time as the event itself and which involved hijacked airliners crashing into buildings. Unless the U.S. Government comes clean on the Wargames Drills and tells us exactly what the drills involved and whether or not they involved voice recordings of actors in the roles of hijackers and victims for reality purposes....then we must assume that these voice recordings were faked. Regards, GC

by **pugzleyca3** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:11 pm

"Absolutely. I wasn't trying to trample on people's rights, but merely trying to encourage a more "rigorous" approach to certain "intuitions." Then please enlighten us with information you have to the contrary? I would like to find out all I can about the issues, that's why I'm here. I certainly do not have a closed mind, or I FOR SURE wouldn't be posting on this board. For instance, I'll readily admit I didn't know about this piece of information you cited and am very interested to know more about this: "By the way, weren't these tapes played before a group of familiy members, oh, I don't know, about a year ago?" Were they? If so, then great! Do you know where I might go to research this for myself? Or can you go into greater detail and share what you know about it with me? In our travels throughout the internet and reading books, we are not all going to remember the same details or even find those same details, that's why it's so important that we work together on this issue and part of that working together is being a bit patient with newcomers and people who might not be as savy as you or I might be about certain issues regarding 9/11. I remember rushing around knee jerking for many months when I first started researching 9/11. After awhile, I was finally able to understand that not everything I thought was correct and much of what I thought I knew was flat out wrong. It's a process. For all of us. We need to be as kind to one another as we can if we're all on the same side. And we can believe different things and different theories, as long as we are all on the side of what I think people here, for the most part believe, which is some people in some very high places did some very bad things and we all want to know who, how and why they did it. And they need to be brought to justice. And the only way they will be brought to justice is if and when the people ever come together in enough force make this happen. (I don't mean violence.) Whether you believe in pods and holograms and misslie holes in the Pentagon or if you believe NORAD stood down and the government allowed it, caused it or whatever, it doesn't matter. All it takes is doubting the official story on some level, enough people doubting it on some level and forcing an independent investigation. A few insiders coming out would help too, I'll admit. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)"> It might never happen, but it is my highest hope.

by **NewKid** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:04 pm

<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Jury and journalists all in on it? <hr></blockquote> why would they need to be 'in on it?'

by **HMKGrey** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 9:23 pm

I believe that they did play the tape before at the inquest or some such. No press was admitted and families signed agreements not to tell the press about what they heard although some came right out and spoke about it - those who are angry with the government, I guess. It was about 18 months ago. I think the big issues over Flight 93 are: - Was it shot down? There was a huge debris field (up to 12 miles, I think) and one of the passengers on the phone reported an explosion and smoke on board minutes prior to the crash. - Another smaller 'white' plane was seen in the vicinity and overflew the crash site moments after the crash. This was originally denied in the first few official versions but later copped to as a small commerical plane. Witnesses say it was unmarked. - The timing of the crash and seismic data are all screwed up. There's a 3 or 6 minute gap that no one can really account for in the official version. - The tape played this week and 18 months ago has some amount of time missing from it at the end. I'm not sure how long but it has always been held back for 'reasons of national security'. - The crash site was treated strangely. As with all the 9/11 crashes the NTSB was refused entry (and has never been involved in any of the investigations) and even relatives were not allowed near the site. I believe the site is still guarded round the clock. - What little footage of the crash site exists shows no visible plane parts or wreckage, just excavated earth.  No idea what this means. Take your pick. I also read somewhere that there were some strange things about the coroners report in relation to this crash. No DNA of people of arab origins, I think. Something like that. Google flight 93 - there's a lot of stuff out there.

Testimonies at Moussaoui trial

Testimonies at Moussaoui trial

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