Great New Read From A Military Officer On Duty On 9/11

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So, let me get this right..

Postby slimmouse » Sun Sep 24, 2006 4:54 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>And what she says about Cheney being in command of NORAD is simply not true. This seems a corruption of the change in shootdown protocol in June 2001 and the Secretary of Defense, not the VP.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br> So, let me get this right.<br><br> The secretary of defence who has the Shoot down protocol on 9/11, just so happens to be sat within the hub of the US military, that is the Pentagon, when the twin towers have been hit already, and the first thing he knows about any of this is when hears a "dull thud" after an 'Airplane' hits the said Pentagon, having flown some 45 minutes unchallenged over US Airspace - and this some 1 and 1/2 hours after this whole deal started ?<br><br> Nothing to see here folks right ? Them damned Arabs !!.<br><br> Who writes these fucking scripts ? Mel Brooks ???<br><br> <!--EZCODE EMOTICON START :rollin --><img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin"><!--EZCODE EMOTICON END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=slimmouse@rigorousintuition>slimmouse</A> at: 9/24/06 3:01 pm<br></i>
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...

Postby robertdreed » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:08 pm

In Spanish, I think Lauro is a male name. <p></p><i></i>
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the letter

Postby robertdreed » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:26 pm

The letter looks a little too "easy" to me. And it strikes me as odd that someone with supposed inside whistleblower knowledge would first bring it to the notice of the public in a letter to the editor, especially in a paper like the Cincinnatti Post. <br><br>I think that anyone speaking of top secret classified military exercises would be liable for criminal prosecution, especially in the post-Patriot Act era. <br><br>If I was in that position- someone with classified top secret inside knowledge, deciding to break silence after a long period of wrestling with the dilemma, 5 years after the fact- I'd be lawyered up, and I'd be arranging for a press conference, not simply mailing in a letter to a newspaper. <br><br>My guess is that any further investiagtion would probably reveal that Lauro Chavez hasn't fully represented the facts of his experience, and that there's some fantasy imixed in there, as well. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby greencrow0 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:34 pm

Yes, it all sounds like dysinfo to me....<br><br>let's check out the whistleblower to see if she actually exists and actually wrote what she says she wrote.<br><br>Also, I guess Ruppert was lying about Cheney being in charge of the War Games on 9/11.<br><br>gc <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby anotherdrew » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:48 pm

"anyone speaking of top secret classified military exercises would be liable for criminal prosecution"<br><br>nothing is said about the excercises that isn't already in the public record, those excercises were taking place, this is well known and the writter isn't giving any major new info about them whatsoever, except possibly explaining why nothing was scrambled from Andrews - all their ready planes were off chasing the 'excersise' related blips.<br>As for what is said about Cheney taking 'command' or norad, the writter may mean only 'command of the excersises', which I think is also known to be factual, his special office called and was running them, Cheney was participant in those excersies, I don't think that is controversial either. The author doesn't seem to be aware of the shoot-down command being put in rummy hands.<br>The writting has mistakes and gramatical issues sure, but it still seems plausible as comming from a 25 year old tech _sargent_ (that means likely no college for one thing). If it's real it looks to me like something dashed off a bit too quickly and now too late to pull back and edit.<br><br>Isn't there a simple way to check someone's references? Say an ex-miliary person's applying for a job, surely there's a number they can give prospective emplyers to confirm rank and specialization at least? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby anotherdrew » Sun Sep 24, 2006 5:49 pm

"I guess Ruppert was lying about Cheney being in charge of the War Games on 9/11"<br><br>what makes you say that? <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby greencrow0 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:20 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"I guess Ruppert was lying about Cheney being in charge of the War Games on 9/11"<br><br>what makes you say that?<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>I was following some other posters' arguments along to their logical conclusion.<br><br>gc <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby robertdreed » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:32 pm

"the writter isn't giving any major new info about them whatsoever, except possibly explaining why nothing was scrambled from Andrews - all their ready planes were off chasing the 'excersise' related blips."<br><br>It would be interesting if that allegation actually turned out to have some veracity, notwithstanding anything else that was alleged by the writer. <br><br>Other "major new info" in the letter- the allegation that the exercise in question was classified "Top Secret", in variance with the usual pattern. And then there's the charge that "Cheney got himself appointed to be in charge of NORAD"- although Mike Ruppert has alleged that in the past, I don't think I've ever read of Ruppert citing a source for that allegation. This is the first I've heard that from anyone who was (ostensibly) active duty military at the time of the attacks. <br><br>I have a little too much on my plate right now, but I would think that it wouldn't be that difficult for a diligent researcher to look up and provide confirming details. Because a bureaucratic manuever like that would not have been done in secret, it would be on the record. <br>At the moment, I'm dubious. But confirming details are always welcome. <br><br>(I have to admit that I haven't read Ruppert's book, <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>Crossing The Rubicon</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->. If anyone out there has a copy on hand, or has actually read the book (as opposed to reading <!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>abput</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> the book) I'd like to know the specific details of what the material says. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=robertdreed>robertdreed</A> at: 9/24/06 6:40 pm<br></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby greencrow0 » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:46 pm

<!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>although Mike Ruppert has alleged that in the past, I don't think I've ever read of Ruppert citing a source for that allegation.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--> <br><br>Rupperts book is heavily sourced. Every statement of fact is sourced.<br><br>I did read the book well over a year now...unfortunately, I leant it to a 'friend' who never returned it.<br><br>Otherwise, I would look it up for you.<br><br>gc <p></p><i></i>
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Re: the letter

Postby dbeach » Sun Sep 24, 2006 8:56 pm

most former MI ers { Military Intell} are very tiightlipped even 30 40 yrs later..Its a pretty exclusive club.<br><br>There seems to be a pattern of a few possible real info folks rolling out each month....<br><br>and I do wish this to be true... <p></p><i></i>
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Re: on the exceptional lack of intercept

Postby anotherdrew » Sun Sep 24, 2006 9:39 pm

for the norad drills info, one of Rupert's main sources, per page 308, is: Barbara Honegger.<br><br>here's a quote from CtR:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Normal FAA procedures for responding to even minor deviations from air traffic control protocols were followed routinely and without complication 67 times between September 2000 and June 2001 before a new convoluted order was released by the Pentagon on June 1, 2001. That order inserted the Secretary of<br>Defense into a decision-making and action protocol, normally the domain of senior military commanders.<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><!--EZCODE CODE START--><pre> Michael Guillaume[In re:] scramblingSun Jun 9 13:11:30 2002I am a pilot and I know what happens to me when I lose my transponder.The controller’s console immediately alerts him to the fact, sincehe no longer has my transponder code and altitude. This causes hima great deal of trouble, and very shortly I get trouble also. I am usuallyinstructed to stay below 3,500 feet and return to the airport. Thereason for the concern is that I am a hazard to navigation. Now imaginethe situation in the Air Route Traffic Control Center (commonlyabbreviated to ‘center’). This is in the northeast corner of the US, thebusiest airspace on the planet. Each controller has a wedge shaped sectorthat he is responsible for. His airspace is also bounded by altitudelimits. Commercial flights, referred to as heavies, are always underpositive control.They must constantly be in communication with the controllersin order to maintain legal separation. If one of these heavies loses itstransponder, it causes instant problems for more than one controllersince altitude information is lost. The controllers still have a skinpaint, or passive echo from the airframe, but the blip now shows upon all consoles for that sector, not just the original one that was handlingthe altitude range of the flight. If that same flight losescommunication with the controllers as well, the controller workloadtakes another giant step upward. Keep in mind that this is in an areathat is normally stretched to the breaking point with controller overload.This flight is now a hazard to air navigation, and the controllers’primary function of separating the planes is in jeopardy. The procedurefor lost communication emergencies is simple: follow your lastThe Attacks 311clearance. If the flight under discussion follows its last clearance, thecontrollers can predict where it will go and can still keep other flightsout of harm’s way. If in addition to losing communication andtransponder the flight starts to deviate from its last clearance, thewhole system is in an emergency condition. Alarms all over the countrywould be going off. One interesting piece of information is therecording of controller and pilot conversations. These tapes are a matterof public record and are written over after a few days unlesssomething interesting happens. These tapes would show the responseof the system. Where are they?So we know that the traffic control system would be in panic modewithin two to three minutes of the initial events. We know that OtisAir Force Base is only five minutes from Manhattan by F15. We knowthat the controllers always had a passive return from the planes andcould vector an intercept. The last Airman’s Information Manual Ibought has a date of 1989 and it describes intercept procedures. So weknow that intercepts have been routine low-level events since at leastthat time. We know that there is an Air Defense Intercept Zone justoffshore for the entire Atlantic Coast. This zone is constantly beingpatrolled. In general fast movers [fighter aircraft] would not need tobe scrambled. They can be diverted from routine patrol and trainingflights for the intercept. I know from experience that early morningflights are every pilot’s favorite. You preflight the plane in the dark andtake off. Even in a Cessna, breaking out into the bright clear sunshinefrom the dark earth below is a kick. In an F15, doing Mach 1 straightup would make it impossible to stop grinning. The odds are thatmany flights would be on patrol just offshore. It would be mostimprobable that even one commercial flight could go [astray] morethan ten minutes without being intercepted. The intercepting planewould slowly close from the left and take station slightly above andahead of the errant heavy. At this point he would rock his wings andexpect the other plane to do the same as a form of non-verbal communication.After this he would perform a gentle turn to the left andthe intercepted plane is required to follow. If this does not occur, thereare many actions, short of firing, the fighter can take to prevent thecommercial jet from harming either itself, any other plane, or anyground structure.Interceptions are routine daily occurrences. The fact that they didn’thappen under extreme provocation raises some serious questions. Ihope [former FAA Inspector General] Mary Schiavo will ask them.<!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>1</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--></pre><!--EZCODE CODE END--><br>1 KPFK Listener forum, <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=165346&article=10650.">disc.server.com/discussio...cle=10650.</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> This is just one of hundreds of similar statements from certified instrument-rated pilots that surfaced after 9/11, and it is consistent with interviews I have done with pilots since 9/11.<br><!--EZCODE HR START--><hr /><!--EZCODE HR END--><br><!--EZCODE CODE START--><pre> <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Cheney to Oversee Domestic Counterterrorism Efforts</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>President announces new homeland defense initiative</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->President Bush May 8 directed Vice President Dick Cheney to coordinate developmentof US government initiatives to combat terrorist attacks on the United States...<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>— White House Press Release, May 8, 2001</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END-->... Therefore, I have asked Vice President Cheney to oversee the development of a coordinatednational effort so that we may do the very best possible job of protecting ourpeople from catastrophic harm. I have also asked Joe Allbaugh, the Director of theFederal Emergency Management Agency, to create an Office of National Preparedness.This office will be responsible for implementing the results of those parts of the nationaleffort overseen by Vice President Cheney that deal with consequence management.Specifically it will coordinate all federal programs dealing with weapons of massdestruction consequence management within the Departments of <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>Defense</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, Health andHuman Services, Justice, and Energy, the Environmental Protection Agency, and otherfederal agencies….<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em>— Official Statement of President George W. Bush, May 8, 2001 Office of the Press Secretary, The White House</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--></pre><!--EZCODE CODE END--><br>Here's a basic write up of what is accepted 'facts':<br><!--EZCODE LINK START--><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vigilant_Guardian#Global_Guardian_and_the_September_11_Attacks">Vigilant Guardian & Global Guardian</a><!--EZCODE LINK END--><br><br><!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>from the 9/11 Commission Report:</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END--><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>"On 9/11, NORAD was scheduled to conduct a military exercise, Vigilant Guardian, which postulated a bomber attack from the former Soviet Union. We investigated whether military preparations for the large-scale exercise compromised the military's response to the real-world terrorist attack on 9/11. According to General Eberhart, "it took about 30 seconds" to make the adjustment to the real-world situation. Ralph Eberhart testimony, June 17, 2004. We found that the response was, if anything, expedited by the increased number of staff at the sectors and at NORAD because of the scheduled exercise.<br>See Robert Marr interview (Jan. 23, 2004)."<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>hard to see how the "commission" could have found that the excercises 'speeded up' responce, the responce was completely slow and a-typical. Now just recently we've had commison members comming out and saying there were serious problems with the militaries replies but that they didn't go after it, this seems like a case were they just "took their word for it" in obvious contradiction to the evidence at hand.<br><br>let's review a bit from CtR:<br>Starting in April of 2004 it all fell into place. First, the June 2001 Joint Chiefs of Staff Instruction quoted at the beginning of this chapter surfaced on the website of the Defense Department’s Defense Technical Information Center.4 That demonstrated a willful intent to centralize decision-making authority away from field commanders prior to the attacks. As it turns out, the change in procedure had already been indirectly confirmed in a June 3, 2002, story in Aviation Week and Space Technology, and almost everyone missed it. That story quoted the order without disclosing that it had been put in place just ten weeks before 9/11. The wording was a near verbatim quote of the Joint Chief ’s Instruction. One exception in that order (Reference D) did leave some decision making in the hands of field commanders in certain exigent circumstances, but the thrust was a radical shift away from long-standing NORAD policy.<br>Further research into this change would disclose more evidence showing that, just a month before that, all counter-terror response planning and organization (with a focus on weapons of mass destruction) had been placed under the control of Dick Cheney.5<br>Then there were the exercises themselves.<br>Vigilant Guardian was named or referred to in several news stories including Aviation Week, Newhouse News Service,6 and on two official web sites.7 The official websites indicated — and this was later confirmed to me in my own queries with NORAD — that details of Vigilant Guardian were classified and not available for release. A Vigilant Guardian exercise focusing on cold war-era threats was, according to an official site, conducted by NORAD once a year. But a close look at what NORAD told the press described a Vigilant Guardian that was vastly different from an exercise preparing for a Russian attack. In their post-9/11 statements, NORAD officials described details of Vigilant Guardian that seemed to be describing something else altogether.<br>Aviation Week reported, “Senior officers involved in Vigilant Guardian were manning NORAD command centers throughout the US and Canada, available to make immediate decisions.”8 This confirmed the geographic scope of the exercise. Vigilant Guardian was played up in the press as though it had facilitated a quicker response. It did anything but that.<br>That Vigilant Guardian had a direct impact on the Northeast Air Defense Sector in which all four hijackings occurred was confirmed in a December 2003 original story by NJ.com, a New Jersey-based service also summarizing all major stories published by New Jersey press outlets.<br>NORAD also has confirmed it was running two mock drills on September 11 at various radar sites and command centers in the United States and Canada, including air force bases in upstate New York, Florida, Washington, and Alaska. One drill, Operation Vigilant Guardian, began a week before September 11 and reflected a cold war mind-set: Participants practiced for an attack across the North Pole by Russian forces.9<br>The story never named the second drill, and the assertion that it was strictly a cold war-type exercise is belied by direct statements of many of the principals involved that day. The NJ.com story also raised another chilling issue. Investigators at the September 11 commission confirm they are investigating whether NORAD’s attention was drawn in one direction — toward the North Pole — while the hijackings came from an entirely different direction.10<br>Vigilant Warrior was specifically mentioned by former White House counterterrorism advisor Richard Clarke in his 2004 bestseller Against All Enemies. At the beginning of the book Clarke describes a series of conversations with key officials that occurred after the second tower had been hit as he chaired the White House’s Crisis Strategy Group (CSG) during the first minutes of the attacks.<br>“[FAA Administrator] Jane [Garvey] where’s Norm?” I asked. They were frantically looking for Norman Mineta, the Secretary of Transportation, and, like me, a rare holdover from the Clinton administration. At first FAA could not find him. “Well, Jane, can you order aircraft down? We’re going to have to clear the airspace around Washington and New York.” “We may have to do a lot more than that, Dick. I already put a hold on all take-offs and landings in New York and Washington, but we have reports of eleven aircraft off course or out of communications, maybe hijacked.” [Emphasis added]… I turned to the radar screen. “JCS, JCS. I assume NORAD has scrambled fighters and AWACS. How many? Where?” “Not a pretty picture Dick.” Dick Myers, himself a fighter pilot, knew that the days when we had scores of fighters on strip alert had ended with the cold war. “We are in the middle of Vigilant Warrior, a NORAD exercise, but … Otis has launched two birds toward New York. Langley [Air Force Base] is trying to get two up now… It was now 9:28 [emphasis added]11<br>[NOTE: Clarke’s book was edited by the White House for some months prior to publication. The ellipsis (three dots) after the word “but” in Clarke’s paragraph above are a direct quotation from the book suggesting the possibility that the White House had deleted whatever Clarke had written here.] 338 crossing the rubicon<br>As the chart in the preceding chapter shows, according to data provided by the FAA, NORAD, and many press accounts, by 9:28 it was known that all four flights had been hijacked and that flight 77 had been headed towards Washington for some time.<br>This was the only reference to Vigilant Warrior I was able to find. Earlier references stored on the Web disclosed a 1996 exercise in the Persian Gulf with the same name, but nothing since. I knew that the names assigned to exercises had significance but did not know how names were allocated. Why would Myers indicate that a Persian Gulf exercise, not reported on anywhere else, had any bearing on domestic response on 9/11?<br>But if Clarke’s account is accurate, the name was confirmed directly to him by the acting chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Military exercises are often linked, and according to several sources, when names are partially shared during simultaneous exercises this indicates a connection between them. The juxtaposition of the words “Guardian” and “Warrior” suggest opposing forces in a wargame exercise with one side playing the aggressor and another side playing the defender. The fact that Jane Garvey indicated that as many as 11 aircraft were out of radio contact or off course was the most startling revelation. Was it an indication that one or more of them could be connected with the war games? Northern Vigilance was an exercise being conducted on September 11th as reported only by Canada’s Toronto Star in a story dated December 9, 2001. The story had a great deal to say about how 9/11 unfolded.<br>Northern Vigilance, planned months in advance, involves deploying fighter jets to locations in Alaska and northern Canada. Part of the exercise is pure simulation, but part is real world. NORAD is keeping a close eye on the Russians, who have dispatched long-range bombers to their own high north on a similar exercise….<br>The Federal Aviation Administration has evidence of a hijacking and is asking for NORAD support. This is not part of the exercise. In a flash, Operation Northern Vigilance is called off. Any simulated information, what’s known as an “inject” is purged from the screens… “Lots of other reports were starting to come in,” [Major General Rick] Findley [Director of NORAD operations] recalls. “And now you’re not too sure. If they’re that clever to co-ordinate that kind of attack, what else is taking place across North America?”… [emphasis added]12<br>The reference to “injects” was chilling. No other mainstream press (especially in the US) had mentioned that false radar blips had been inserted onto radar screens on September 11th. But on whose screens? Where? A major anomaly in official 9/11 accounts had been officially ignored.<br>The only brief response I received from NORAD’s public affairs office when I tried to sort out the various names and identities of the wargames contained the statement, “To help clarify, NORAD did issue a news release entitled “NORAD Maintains Northern Vigilance” on 9 SEP 01.” The e-mail response directed me to a NORAD web page where I found the following:<br>The North American Aerospace Defense Command shall deploy fighter aircraft as necessary to Forward Operating Locations (FOLS) in Alaska and Northern Canada to monitor a Russian air force exercise in the Russian arctic and North Pacific Ocean. [emphasis added]13 So the fighters had been pulled north and west, away from New York and Washington. <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=anotherdrew>anotherdrew</A> at: 9/24/06 8:59 pm<br></i>
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Re: on the exceptional lack of intercept

Postby dbeach » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:12 pm

"Cheney to Oversee Domestic Counterterrorism Efforts"<br><br>be prepared and obey the laws of their pact<br><br>sealed in blood 9/11. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: on the exceptional lack of intercept

Postby Rigorous Intuition » Sun Sep 24, 2006 10:20 pm

<!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em> "Cheney to Oversee Domestic Counterterrorism Efforts"</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--><br><br>Definitely, and a smoldering gun in its own right. Just not quite the same as the letter's contention that Cheney was in charge of NORAD, which makes me think there's some truth-fudging going on. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: on the exceptional lack of intercept

Postby anotherdrew » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:11 pm

from the letter:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>if you research NORAD and the command structure<br>you will find that it was imposed long ago that the military should be in control of the order to scramble planes in the defense of American air space. For some strange reason, Bush changed this and gave that power to a civilian person on his Staff team<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>at best it sounds like someone shooting off a half-cocked letter using poorly remembered details. and what was this Army sergeant doing at the air force base? maybe providing some kinda IT support to some liason I supose, I don't know, I'm not going to place much stock in this one yet. <p></p><i></i>
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Re: on the exceptional lack of credibility

Postby Iroquois » Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:35 pm

I definitely side with those who find this letter to be a hoax.<br><br>Hugh Manatee Wins said:<br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The writing style and spoken-style vocabulary sounds to me like a college-age civilian cobbling together what they've learned on the internet and putting it forward in the voice of a 'military insider.'<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>Bingo. There is nothing military about the language in this letter. Anyone who was stationed at a major command HQ knows how to speak fluent militarese. But, I don't believe this writer does, or they would have here.<br><br>By the way, I think there is something very non-random to the selection of the name "Chavez" myself.<br><br>And, I don't like the everything but the kitchen sink approach. If I had a piece of valuable, inside information and I was willing to put my health and welfare on the line to put it out, I would do so in as clear and factual manner as possible. And, then I would stop. I would not follow it up by attaching a bunch of additional unverifiable, controversial claims about things that I have absolutely no expertise in and no means of backing up. But, maybe that's just me.<br><br>As far as who was Command in Chief of NORAD on 9/11, all sources that I know of say that was Eberhart. The following page on Thompson's 9/11 Time Line deals specifically with NORAD: <!--EZCODE AUTOLINK START--><a href="http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?id=1521846767-1683">www.cooperativeresearch.o...46767-1683</a><!--EZCODE AUTOLINK END--> Here's an excerpt:<br><br><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>(After 8:37 a.m.): NORAD Scramble Order Moves Through Official and Unofficial Channels<br><br>NORAD commander Larry Arnold. [Source: US Air Force]NORAD commander Larry Arnold.<br>NORAD gives the command to scramble fighters after Flight 11 after receiving Boston’s call. Lieutenant Colonel Dawne Deskins at NEADS tells Colonel Robert Marr, head of NEADS, “I have FAA on the phone, the shout line, Boston [flight control]. They said they have a hijacked aircraft.” Marr then calls Major General Larry Arnold at NORAD’s Command Center in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, and says, “Boss, I need to scramble [fighters at] Otis [Air National Guard Base].” Arnold recalls, “I said go ahead and scramble them, and we’ll get the authorities later.” Arnold then calls the operations deputy at NORAD’s Colorado headquarters to report. The operations deputy tells him, “Yeah, we’ll work this with the National Military Command Center. Go ahead and scramble the aircraft.” [ABC News, 9/11/2002; Filson, 2004, pp. 56; 9/11 Commission, 6/17/2004] Then, upon receiving this authorization from Larry Arnold, NEADS calls Canadian Captain Mike Jellinek at NORAD’s Colorado headquarters. Jellinek is sitting near Canadian Air Force Major General Rick Findley, director of combat operations there. Findley’s staff is “already on high alert” because of Vigilant Guardian and Operation Northern Vigilance, a training exercise and a NORAD operation that are currently in progress. Jellinek gets the thumbs up authorization from Findley to send fighters after Flight 11. Yet, according to the 1st Air Force’s own book about 9/11, the “sector commander [at NEADS] would have authority to scramble the airplanes.” Military controllers at NEADS are only a hot line call away from the pilots on immediate alert. Why NEADS calls NORAD’s Command Center at Tyndall, then NORAD’s Colorado headquarters, to get authorization to launch fighters after Flight 11, is unclear. Rick Findley later states, “At that point all we thought was we’ve got an airplane hijacked and we were going to provide an escort as requested. We certainly didn’t know it was going to play out as it did.” Findley remains in charge of NORAD headquarters while his staff feeds information to <!--EZCODE BOLD START--><strong>NORAD Commander in Chief Ralph Eberhart</strong><!--EZCODE BOLD END-->, who is stationed in Florida. [Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, 11/27/2001; Toledo Blade, 12/9/2001; Ottawa Citizen, 9/11/2002; Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/2002; Filson, 2004]<br><br>Entity Tags: Operation Northern Vigilance, Larry Arnold, Robert Marr, Ralph Eberhart, Dawne Deskins, Rick Findley, Federal Aviation Administration, Mike Jellinek, National Military Command Center<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><br><br>I heard from a very good source that Cheney was one of the few who was able to authorize a scramble on 9/11 after the passing of CJCSI 3610.01A. I'm not sure whether that was due to his position in the Department of Homeland Defense or that he was actually acting Commander-In-Chief of the Armed Forces that day. I'll follow up on that when I can.<br><br>There is a lot more to pick on here, but one particular batch of bones I had were the comments about thermite. My pickle suit days were a long time ago and I didn't have a lot of experience with it then. But, I can say that I neither recall there being any sulfur smell nor resulting sulfur residue. And, while I may have lumped thermite in with explosives myself during some heated CD discussions, the thermite generally used by the military does not explode. Thermite grenades are issued for destroying equipment. Every machine gun, field gun, tank, etc. should have enough thermite grenades on hand for sabotage in the event that the equipment has to be left behind. The grenade doesn't blow the item up. It just burns white hot and smokes for a while, and melts and fuses mechanical parts in the process.<br><br>And, I am not an explosives expert by any means, but I feel I can say with some confidence that thermite is not used in C4 or any explosive compound that is anything like C4.<br><!--EZCODE ITALIC START--><em><br>Lauro, if you are a real person and this is a sincere letter, I apologize. But, this is how the letter comes across to me.</em><!--EZCODE ITALIC END--> <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p216.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=iroquois@rigorousintuition>Iroquois</A> at: 9/24/06 9:37 pm<br></i>
Iroquois
 
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