A Plan For Global Happiness

by **enkidu** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:51 am

Aside from taking up an inordinate amount of space on this board, and making AnnaLivia cream her jeans, I don't see what this rant accomplishes. Your "plan" is unexceptional--that is, there are a lot of alternatives better than what we have now--but how do you propose to implement it? Put it on the ballot, vote on it? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/roll.gif ALT=":rollin">

by **proldic** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 10:02 am

I'm down with Chiggerbit's plan.

by **AnnaLivia** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 1:30 pm

chiggerbit and proldic, sure I like to laugh, too, even recommend it as essential, but you DO realize that murdering a wealthpower giant does nothing to solve the problem as it does nothing to prevent another taking his place since you haven’t changed the system by changing people’s understanding….right? enkidu, “cream her jeans”? You’re talking about the deepest and most meaningful friendship in my life. I wouldn’t be here today if not for this most unusual bloke. Felt like you made light of that, quite frankly. I can only apologize to anyone who was offended at reading my no-holds-barred account of my true affection for my friend. I have committed the sin of wearing my heart on my sleeve, I guess? And you commented that we’re taking too much space. Someone tell me because I honestly don’t know….are we costing Jeff money if we post more words? I would certainly not want to do that! But I see plenty of long posts around here (and they don’t bother me a bit. I gratefully read all I have time for, and think mostly what gets posted here at RI is well worth it. all are free to take or leave the cookies we all put on the table, but one thing I love most about this place is the lack of people disparaging others for not abiding by the (arbitrary) constraints you find people bludgeoned with in most forums. This place is a glorious example of not merely tolerating others (which implies one way of thinking is right but we’ll nobly put up with the others) but actually encouraging diversity!) I don’t start very many new threads because I am cognizant of the 20-page limit Jeff is up against, but am unaware that increasing the length of an existing one is harmful. Is it? And I certainly wish this plan was NOT exceptional. If this thinking was out there all over the place, I could spend my days twining beautiful rugs and riding ferris wheels, but I NEVER hear talk of how we need to murder the idea of having wealthpower giants by getting rid of overpay/underpay…by insisting on justice… and that the way to do it is to convince great enough numbers of us through grassroots communication (so there’s no chance of having “a movement” co-opted) …until the human consciousness adopts the idea and prioritizes the importance of it forever. "time out" from working on this is the LAST thing we need. The question of how do we implement it, well, my friend and I believe that once people see a problem is so big, they go to work at fixing it. I have no guarantees to give anyone. All we can do is try our mightiest. But what, pray tell, could be more important for us to be doing? We have given examples of steps that could and should be taken, but this isn’t about everyone doing what we tell them to do. this is about injecting the idea into every mind so people will WANT to find ways to implement it. by all means give us your suggestions! geez, it’s really so simple. But it’s so hard to explain! I certainly worry that my own ineptitude is what keeps the answer under lock and key. I’m no scholar, no brilliant orator. What my “heart” does comes far more easily to it, than what my brain does comes to it. but nothing will ever convince me I should stop giving it my best shot. I have children to protect. Peoplenotsheeple, your constructive criticism is more welcomed than you could know. (and I’m delighted you are working on plans, too. Wish everyone could see that it is essential that we prioritize our survival and happiness.) A mass of verbiage….I DO hear exactly what you are saying. My friend and I have wrestled with this from the start. This particular version was born from all the resistance we have met to establishing equity, and I truly DO wonder if this notion must be DANCED into people’s heads. Trust me, I will keep working on how to present this message, this idea, in fewer or better words. I DID encourage people to write their own version, and boy would I be delighted to read it expressed by others in any way! But my buddy has a most valid point that having “too many words” is more exasperating for most people than is the situation that prompted the words. I once wrote a little essay saying that I, a grown woman, sleep with a huggable stuffed animal…a cloud-soft and cuddly little hippopotamus. I did it precisely so that I could come back to critics and disparagers and throw in their face that that disturbed them far more than the world’s situation…as evidenced by the fact they were commenting on that silliness instead of paying attention to anything important. I will gladly be the biggest public fool of all, if it moves people to prioritize what’s important.

by **ZeroHaven** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:55 pm

ok, yes now I understand the basic premise. it does make sense logically, but without an external enemy is not possible for humans. your intended audience tunes out after 30 seconds. part of the reason for this is in fact the struggle to .. if not get more .. just to keep up. now, the reason it's not possible for humans is that outside of extremely rare exceptions, humans are greedy. convince a roomful of people that being taller than his neighbor gives power/status/money/any advantage, and after a few minutes of attempting to clambor on top of each other.. seeing they are failing... they will begin to knock each other down! your game of 'king of the mountain' will escalate very shortly into 'last man standing'.. because that would make him tallest. [no gender preference implied] I do commend you on your ideas and efforts, but this is an idealistic approach to controlling animal instincts that cannot be evolved out until there are no longer individual minds. In the Eden story there was plenty of everything and want for nothing, but humans defied God just to get a little bit more. True story or not, it clearly demonstrates that we've had this greed for thousands of years. It's showing no signs of evolving out, and is a natural byproduct of being an individual. I mentioned that an 'external enemy' would be necessary, because without something external to band together against, groups of humans consider each other 'external' and continue to be greedy with only each other. One more demonstration.. you can surely find examples of people who appear to be 'not greedy'. Look again. This instinct may have been redirected - instead of material possessions these people pursue other commodities (love, knowledge, fame, etc). It's there. If you can rechannel which commodities people are greedy over, the money issue CAN be solved. Thanks again. <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p097.ezboard.com/brigorousintuition.showUserPublicProfile?gid=zerohaven>ZeroHaven</A> at: 8/18/05 2:05 pm

by **AnnaLivia** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:35 pm

I totally reject that it is not possible for major change to occur, ZeroHaven, and don’t see how clinging to defeatism does any good whatsoever. People often state that human nature is at fault (right after they remind me we are animals), like it was a universal truth, when in fact that cannot be proven at all. (and many of the greatest minds in history have tried and failed!) Would I bet the needed change in thinking WILL happen? Nope. But reality means leaving room for change. The REALITY is that it CAN change. I do not buy into the idea that our future is pre-determined, that we are subject to a destiny by biology. We are the only species capable of over-riding our mechanics! That’s a fact. Cannot humans come to view greed as an enemy worth defeating once they see it is not immoral, but suicidal? We place restraints on ourselves all the time, when we see they will get us more happiness and safety. Can’t we choose to stop playing a game that hurts us so? I really ask myself if the nut of this thing is that we simply don’t give ourselves enough credit. Ok, we don’t yet understand all the “invisible” ways money is transferred from earners to non-earners, and the extreme importance of correcting that situation, but again I say that is only for now, and nothing says it will always be this way because it cannot be any other. That word idealism…I guess I really do be dumb, because I just cannot comprehend what is wrong with sticking to the best ideals. Thanks back, for helping explore all this, ZH. all feedback helps, and I mean that so sincerely.

by **enkidu** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:40 pm

Jeff does seem to feel compelled to reconfigure the boards because they're filling up so fast, but firstly that's good, it shows that this is a popular spot and Jeff should be pleased, and secondly what is up with the "Rock Musician's Encounter With Entities" thread? Get your own Blogger account guys, if you just want to fill page after page with pretty pictures and song lyrics. But couldn't you have just said "To each according to his work"--wait a minute--hmmm

by **AnnaLivia** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 6:03 pm

"But couldn't you have just said "To each according to his work"--wait a minute--hmmm" the thing is, this plan works just fine under capitalism. joe lunchbox can keep the capitalism he knows and loves. i'm not yet convinced that capitalism isn't just a good workhorse, worked badly. but yes, equitable pay for sacrifices made is at the heart of it. we just don't pay fairly, or for the right reasons....for what people sacrifice. not saying you said it is, just adding now that i don't think it's a utopian plan (though again, i wonder why that word gets used as an epithet because it sure seems to me a perfectly sensible thing to desire to get as close to utopia as we can). i think it's cold, hard reasoning and perfect good sense. if you don't want a giant able to oppress you, then you can't reserve the right to someday have a chance to be the giant. the idea of having giants is what has to be murdered. (i was up too late, need a nap, back later)

by **frend** » Thu Aug 18, 2005 11:51 pm

if u allow overpay and underpay, u get 1] tyrannical corrupt power acting above the law 2] poverty, anger, desperation, crime, civil unrest, terrorism, mafiaism, suicide bombers--------leading to extinction now, thanks to e=mc2 [[hiroshima was the energy in one gram of matter]]]]]]] even if it was unfair [which it isnt, i believe] it would be a million times more pleasant and safe for us all, to have everyone being paid the same per hr, including homemakers and students, just so we dont get 1] and 2] =======u cant have a little inequity, inequity grows ..........and grows and grows.........why not set a maximum hrly pay rate so that power is spread democratically///////// since the average person works 50 hrs a week and noone can work more than double that, we are not being unjust to limit income to double the world average [the world av. happens to be US$50,000 per family [doubling every 12 years at 6% global inflation]-----per every family in the world!!!!!!!!!!!that means a lot more scientists, a lot more customers, a lot more healthy and steady market '''''''''''[this is a different subject, perhaps, but i think it wd be good to limit work to 50 hrs a week, to discourage workaholics------all work and no play makes jack a dull boy and a bad citizen and parent, the ordinary person spends his/her money on their family, the 'rich' man spends his family on his money, yeah?]........... most people are not prepared for that high level of justice [and nonviolence], but we can break ourselves in to it gradually.........like initially taking unearned part of fortunes on decease and spreading it amongst the most severely underpaid [ie, robbed] ----so that law wd affect only millionaires, and only when they die as people experience the good effects, they will want more justice and nonviolence we could bring overpay down from a million times the av. to a 1000 times the average, -----that wd reduce violence and danger of nuclear extinction by a factor of 1000 ------ then later to 100 times the av, and so on till we reach sanity what id really like to convey is that this super-hyper-extreme injustice is the fact that overarches all our sad bad mad history and personal experience.......this is a subject way out in front of every other subject, a reality of an importance 1000s of times more than anything else---------if we were awake to reality, we would be GALVANISED by learning that the pay range is from $1 to $1,000,000,000 for 100 hrs work------if we were not deaf, we would understand that this is the reality that SCREAMS in every person's every day==========this is the engine that makes our lives the less than brilliant joyous happy innocent quiet kindly things they cd be historical communism was just dictatorship-------theoretical idealiistic communism was a naive mistake --------the theory was to make all equal by taking all property off everyone and giving it to the state---------but the state is not a what,,, it is a who-----they gave all power to the top man,,,,,,,making the most extreme injustice and therefore violence......so of course they got secret police, brutality, state terrorism, leader paranoia leading to massacre, etc this plan is the exact opposite---------spreading power and money very evenly [[yet justly, in proportion to work,]] so that corruption of overpower is minimised and controllable the rich get richer and the poor get poorer--------everyone knows this;;;;;;;;;;;when are we going to decide to stop suffering from its terrible terrible and shameful effects??? we should have got alarmed when we started fighting with sticks and stones...........we are not alarmed now when the escalation of war and weaponry and corruption hhas brought us to within a decade or two of extinction

by **billpeace** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:13 am

zerohaven, let's sum up the world human behaviour with an analogy two children, two lunchboxes one each, they eat and then play together, happy, no worries two children, two lunchboxes one with two, one with none the one with none<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/embarassed.gif ALT=":o"> bviously worse off the one with two : worse off too, because the only good thing is one more lunch than he can use or need, and the bad is: the loss of a frend to play with, and the constant neverending energywaster of fighting off the other child - the one with both lunches cant even get a peaceful moment to eat one lunch - example: the whites in south africa now, the point is, it is a lose-lose situation get the children to see this----it is human nature to want happiness, to want maximum good stuff in their life, then they both gain now, do you agree that the analogy holds for the behaviour of humans? that history is littered with corpses and miseries because of people's faith in greed? but we can say, and it is true, that greed is a lose-lose scenario--------the overpaid are under constant ceaseless attack from rich and pooor,======== 99% of people are underpaid, 90% of people get paid between a 1/10th and a 1000/th of what they contribute to the social pool of wealth, so equality is very much a win situation for them [the child with no lunchbox]----even assuming that none of the overpaid 1% can see that it is a win situation for them too, we can push it thru with the 99%, and actually benefit the at-present-overpaid, too admitting greed as a dominant force in human nature, the 99% who are paid less than the world average can see that they get more - up to 1000 times more money -- out of democratic capitalism, and the !% lose little and gain much in happiness, freedom to live and love and be safe i dont think the plan is idealistic in a bad sense - it is hardboiled, practical, and calculated - it relies on people's righteous desire to maximise happiness - the math shows: the more equity in pay, the more everyone is better off, happier eg: the overpaid: america and ceausescu of rumania --america has such high defense costs because it is richer, it is sinking into poverty, as britain, holland and spain did before it -- ceausescu was like shakespeare's richard the third - being the bear with all the honey spells death - uneasy lies the head that wears the crown - and the converse: beggars fear no thieves--------and fair pay satisfies all needs and many desires, so the upside of the second lunch is pathetically small - people may have put blind faith in greed for 1000s of years, it doesnt mean they cant wake up and see what a terribly hard time theyve been giving themselves the ancient athenians said it: equality breeds no strife - the founding fathers tried to get it into the fabric of american society - they failed - lets have another shot, eh?

by **jenz** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 5:38 am

haven't the dynamics of our western societies altered, so that instead of a great mass of poor at the bottom of the pyramid, ready to band together and chop off the head(s) of the greedies at the top, we have a comfy band in the centre of a diamond shape who balance on the narrowing point of the bottom of the diamond shape, the homeless for example, at the very bottom, and because this is an unstable position, the middle band naturally see those below them as the problem, and criminalise them, while feeling quite benign about the real criminals at the top, who enjoy a lifestyle they aspire to, at least in some measure. sorry I could draw this in 2 secs but the description is coming out muddled. anyway, that's why I think it takes more than good words about redistributing wealth to effect change.

by **ZeroHaven** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:15 am

you haven’t changed the system by changing people’s understanding I'm using a few random quotes (out of context) from the conversation to make my point clearer. I completely understand you AnnaLivia & bill. You have idealism and desire that should not be discouraged. I want to help you focus that zeal in a more productive fashion, because if you haven't noticed people are not willing to adopt the philosophy and you need to develop your understanding of how to get around that. If you want a specific result you must understand the system, otherwise you're just poking and hoping. my friend and I believe that once people see a problem is so big, they go to work at fixing it the problem is TOO big for people to see, actually. When you get so close to something that big, you can't see anything at all. Ask yourself if your belief truly reflects reality. If it doesn't, then the next problem to attack is HOW to change that reality. Consider how many battered housewives do NOT work at fixing their situation, despite knowing that they suffer.. that's only ONE example. I totally reject that it is not possible for major change to occur, ZeroHaven, and don’t see how clinging to defeatism and here's part of my point. i did not say NOT possible, i said CAN happen. i presented what i believe is an obstacle and even gave a starter idea of how to get around it. admitting human nature, and illustrating a possible way around it is hardly defeatism. Please do not wear your ideals as blinders, the obstacles are as real as the problem and must be addressed in any solution. a perfectly sensible thing to desire to get as close to utopia as we can Again, you must put some effort into understanding the audience. The 'perfectly sensible' thing to do is simply not done very often. I hope you can recognize this from experience and don't need examples. this is a subject way out in front of every other subject, a reality of an importance 1000s of times more than anything else To whom? To you, to the poor, but that's not who needs convincing. Here is someone answering the question "<a href="http://www.perspectives.com/forums/forum78/54246.html" target="top">what's your biggest problem in life</a>?" .. I get bullied at school because i am an Emo. My dads an alcoholic. I slit my wrists. My dads girlfriends a drug addict and she hits me. My boyfriend dumped me when he found out i was bisexual. The last thing on this person's mind is the economy and global strife. How do you redirect their attention to the 'bigger' problem? when are we going to decide to stop suffering from its terrible terrible and shameful effects??? When all 'average middle class' persons realize they are in fact suffering those effects. When all wealthy corporate stockholders realize they don't need all that money. the day your plan gets put into action. get the children to see this----it is human nature to want happiness, to want maximum good stuff in their life If simply explaining to children that sharing is good actually worked, then everyone who grew up on Sesame Street would already be working toward that utopia. Bill's lunchbox story is true to a point. The boy with two lunches may be convinced to give one back, but how do you convince the boy who was robbed to not want revenge? This isn't a defeatist question. I am seriously asking you, in your own mind, to address it and understand what that means. There is a company called <a href="http://share.skype.com/recommend/" target="top">Skype</a> that is promoting sharing.. they understand their audience. I feel you may be appalled at the animations, (<a href="http://share.skype.com/index.php?option=content§ionid=3&task=view&id=41&Itemid=70" target="top">try gramophone first</a>) but you may be able to learn something from the approach. people may have put blind faith in greed for 1000s of years, it doesnt mean they cant wake up and see what a terribly hard time theyve been giving themselves right, and my challenge to you is figuring out how to wake them up, on their terms, and make them want to change. <img src="http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a239/ZeroHaven/tinhat.gif"/>

by **AnnaLivia** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 1:28 pm

ZeroHaven, jenz, others… If you had one clue how much your inputs mean to me, well, you’d give yourselves the biggest, best cookie ever. I just CAN’T stay on the forum today….not right now. My family is (again) taking into our modest home (read: no spare bedroom), a person who finds themselves temporarily homeless, and I have much to do to make room for them. It’s a squeeze. Has to be done today, they arrive tomorrow. But all day while I work, I’ll be chewing and chewing on what you’re saying. I sure can see that because of some of my (damn my own ineptitude) responses you might not think I’m listening well, but I am. And better all the time, too. I hope I can come back having found the words I really want, to prove that to you. I beg you to hang in there with me! thanks! Anna

by **billpeace** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 7:53 pm

youve given a lot to answer, zerohaven, and thank u for yr care and kindness - i dont know how to bring up onscreen yr letter or bits to refer to - ill just have to - no, i cant do that, ill lose what ive typed if i go back to refer to yr letter - i guess itll have to be memory or the old pen and paper some answers to yr points i dont know if these will answer all yr points - i dont perhaps really understand yr questions - ill try u say people still believe in greed - thats true - thats why we are having to try to get them to see some reality they have overlooked - that is what this is about - that the reality is that greed is in fact in truth in reality NOT a successful strategy for ANYONE, contrary to wide belief this plan is about discussing and thrashing out the issue with 6 billion people in the hope of getting them to see soemthing they are blind to - altho i think one can overestimate the number of people who believe in greed - i think there are people - i wd guess say, maybe, 90% - is that hopelessly over optimistic? - who are just happy to get a fair share - perhaps in the greedcrazy environment, some of those 90% are frenzydriven into the greed style, but in a nongreedcrazy environment, are happy just to do as well as most others we have three levels of brain - the brainstem and cerebellum which we share with reptiles [!], the next layer which we share with mammals, and then the neocortex - yes people are greeddriven by the reptilian brain, and the mammalian brain, to survive and to hell with anyone else, but we also have the neocortex, which is where we can sometimes be rational the primitive brains say 'dont mess with me man - u get in my face, ill give u hell - he did that to me----right!, he's going to get it, big' - this brain never looks at what itself has done to others, never says, 'i hurt him, so i cant complain if he struck back' - bush and 'patriots' are not saying: how come these people hate us? did we hurt them and make them mad? - even to think such thoughts is unpatriotic, is letting the side down - but this leads to vendetta situation - where the injuring goes back and forth without end and escalating - the old joke of the hillbillies blazing away at each other from their side of the hill because somebody's granddaddy stole a peach - this is what we have in the world - britain went out and plundered the world, and made so many enemies, it got smaller and smaller - same with every empire - the roman - now it is happening to america - in the pride of being best, there was no room for an accurate accounting of faults, massacres, etc on both sides - read quotes from general smedley thats why we have courts - to work out who did wrong so the fight can stop, and not go on infinitely, escalatively, wastefully, expensively, ineffectively - a lot of americans still think that americans have given a lot of aid to other countries - but read the lords of poverty by graham hancock - -the british thought they were civilising other nations - selfdeception - they were brutally plundering them - the weavers of india whose bones whitened on the plains of india - and it wasnt the people who were doing it, it was driven by the monomania, the infinite reptilian will of a few, who had great power because the general human will allowed infinite fortunes - money is power - the lack of understanding [and power] in most people didnt realise the infinite harm of allowing overpay/overpower - the founding fathers of america half got the idea, but it slipped - they outlawed entail and primogeniture to prevent fortunes growing humungous, but the corporation defeated them, because the corp never dies - jefferson and lincoln warned america against the corp, but, as lincoln unkindly but accurately said, you can fool... we are saying, look at the reality, get clear and adequate ideas of human society, as she is played, the lesson of history is unanimous: overpay spells death and misery, endless suffering, endless hassles, escalation ending in planet death - it should be obvious - it is true! - u have overpay [injustice - in plain words, theft] then you have underpay, then resentment, then semtex, then nuclear winter learn the lesson of history, and then teach it: overpay is the root of almost all problems - we can be much much much much happier - every single one of us, - dont go near any overpay - it is semtex, it is poison, it is death, and what is worse, living death that every one on the planet, rich and poor, are suffering, a discomfort of the soul and mind and heart, the melancholy feeling that somewhere something is wrong, somehow things are a lot worse than they can be, we cant be as bad as this - eg, we think humans are terribly evil, because humans have done terribly evil things, but it is not human nature but the extreme situation, of extreme over/underpay, which has made these terrrible things happen - toruture, genocide, hiroshima - like a nice dog subjected to starvation and beatings, turned into a savage, loveless, vicious beast no exaggeration at all - pay for 100 hrs work ranges from one lonely dollar to one billion dollars - 1000s of years of the rich getting richer and the.... how mad wd you be to be on $1 per 100 hrs work? - multiply by 5 billion - there is yr powderkeg, there is yr history ['happy nations have no history'], there is yr terrorism, yr nazi-ism - the people on the severest underpay are not a subspecies, they are people just like u and me - the israelis are only now sometimes grasping that maybe it was a bad strategy to throw people off their land and stuff them in refugee camps for 50 years - maybe that was unjust, maybe that was asking for trouble gee, i havent even come to grips with your points yet

by **billpeace** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:29 pm

jenz, i think it more like a pyramid than a diamond, but it is much more like a tack, than a pyramid - a very long very very thin tack - if u draw a graph - and this is something to stick up on yr wall - if u make the lowest income one millimetre, the world average income [paying homemakers and student too] is one metre [a 1000 millimetres] , and the highest pay is dingding!!!! 1000 kilometres !!!!!!! [a million metres] - that is one long or tall tack - 90% of incomes are below ten centimetres - and that tack is sticking thru the foot of humanity, has been for 1000s of years - if u draw that, u can see an incredible incredible fact - you will be able to see that over 90% of world income is received by people who dont earn it, is stolen from those who earned it, who created by their work the goods and services that the money stands for - that is !!!!!! US$45 trillion !!!!!!!!!!stolen every year - that is some injury, some resentment, some powderkeg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by **bllpce** » Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:51 pm

either greed is harmful or it is great - if it is harmful, everything will point to it being so - if it is harmful, and people think it is great, they can be taught or forced - if they can be taught, force is unnecessary - if force is necessary, well, force doesnt work - whoever thinks that u can oppress a people has not looked at history - people just keep popping back up with bigger bombs until they are not oppressed - pity the conqueror, he has no time to himself, his life is ruined by need for perpetual vigilance and conflict - u cant kill the people, they are unkillable - the conquerors cant kill the people anyway because the conquerors want them for slaves, or they'd have to wash their own underpants - in short, greed, or overpay, doesnt deliver the goods - plug in the old cortex or go with the semtex!!<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> the only option is teaching - freethinking by 6 billion to force people is to confess u dont believe in what u are forcing them to believe - cause if u believed in it, u'd know that it could be taught - the communists preventing people leaving, by that action proclaimed that they didnt believe their way was best for the people - because if they believed their way was best, theyd believe that most people wdn want to leave force is so weird, because it cant make people think differently, so whats the use of it - it only makes sense to the greedy who want the people for slaves - but slave economies are always worse than free economies - i suppose because of the cost of whips and chains, and the deterioration of the whipped and chained slave<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/smile.gif ALT=":)">

A Plan For Global Happiness

Time Out

Murder the wealthpower giants!!

nothing more important

Re: nothing more important

we so significant, we were given a huge universe to live in

Didn't Mean To Be Mean

no worries, you don't seem mean to me, enkidu

democratic capitalism versus tyrannous capitalism

well well

diamonds v pyramids

Re: Not arguing.

unavoidable delay

survival and happiness of human species

diamond/pyramid

force/education

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